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#51
elcent
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-06 19:36:42
revoking the MoU?
This will be a multi trillion $$$ gift to Cambodia. Thailand may lose any rights in that area. You can't revoke an international binding agreement because of overemotional mood swings as if in meno pause. Only alterations can be made when mutually agreed. Otherwise, only "acts of God"(disaster) can nullify such a memo. Edited by elcent, 2009-11-06 19:38:51. #52
jayboy
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-06 20:05:11
what do you mean? He's up in opinion polls...No points lost as far as I can see. Oh dear, is this you you measure things - ABAC polls asking a few urban Sino-Thai housewives how they feel? #53
ballpoint
maim and dis-member Posted 2009-11-06 20:05:41
In the area of protecting the right over Pra Viharn area, and zoning in the Gulf of Siam, Thai gov. (Armed Forces included) is too soft, and too shy. Over appointment of TS advisory post, it over reacts. Thailand need not create an enmity out of Cambodia or other neighbours. Abhisit has many times shown his desire to be tough, all at the wrong times. Where he should be more open and direct, he dodges and goes around. Where he should be more diplomatic, he is childishly rude and stiff. If he cannot take he leader roles right, how we can trust him to lead. What is Thailand gain in going blatantly against Cambodia? A popular PM? Hun Sen ramped up his little game a month or so ago when he said any Thai setting foot on the disputed land, not just the temple itself, would be shot. He then started making noises about Thaksin being unfairly treated by the Thai courts, and would give him a house to live in, ignoring any requests for extradition. He then had his mealy mouthed ambassador write a disgraceful letter to the Nation, maybe that's your idea of diplomatic language? And now he appoints a wanted criminal as government advisor. Who knows what his antics are designed to do, other than to thumb his nose at the Thai government? Maybe they're hoping to tie up the Thai army on the border while Thaksin has a go at taking Bangkok? Name me one country that would sit back and try to diplomatically reason with someone as obviously cracked as he is? They should have grabbed the jumped up little Pol Potter when they had him in Cha-am and bloodied his nose for him. (I'm not a diplomat, so I'm allowed to say this). #54
fullcave
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-06 20:45:11
In the area of protecting the right over Pra Viharn area, and zoning in the Gulf of Siam, Thai gov. (Armed Forces included) is too soft, and too shy. Over appointment of TS advisory post, it over reacts. Thailand need not create an enmity out of Cambodia or other neighbours. Abhisit has many times shown his desire to be tough, all at the wrong times. Where he should be more open and direct, he dodges and goes around. Where he should be more diplomatic, he is childishly rude and stiff. If he cannot take he leader roles right, how we can trust him to lead. What is Thailand gain in going blatantly against Cambodia? A popular PM? It was not long ago I was reading about military causalities on the boarder and then there were the threats made by Hun Sen about shooting down Thais. 
Edited by fullcave, 2009-11-06 20:48:02. #55
Yoshitaka
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-06 20:47:16
Thailand need the petroleum resources in the overlapping area more than Cambodia.
Mark DARE NOT speak to Hun Sen again in Japan. Just like Hua Hin. #56
MaiChai
Goo bpen jai yen Posted 2009-11-06 21:29:03
I think Taksin has made a big mistake becoming an advisor in Cambodia. Thais are very patriotic and he has in effect aligned himself with a foreign country who Thailand has highly emotional disputes over. This is very unpatriotic and un-Thai. I think most Thais would regard this as abandoning Thailand in preference to Cambodia. I think it also shows him for what he is, which is a highly manipulative person who will do anything to achieve his goal. His time has passed in Thailand and he does not realise that it has passed, and will never be able to reach the height of his glory days again.
Edited by MaiChai, 2009-11-06 21:30:26. #57
Ricardo
Aged Folk-Rocking Member Posted 2009-11-06 21:51:36
You can't revoke an international binding agreement because of overemotional mood swings as if in meno pause. Only alterations can be made when mutually agreed. 
#58
elcent
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-06 22:02:07
You can't revoke an international binding agreement because of overemotional mood swings as if in meno pause. Only alterations can be made when mutually agreed. Thaksin would have been long before extradited if the situation would have warranted it. Like from England, Germany, Malaysia, UAE and others. Most refused to accept him in their country to avoid political meddling with Thailand but that is not an equivalent reason for an extradition and/or agreement by international standards. #59
Publicus
Super Member Posted 2009-11-06 22:12:02
Thailand need the petroleum resources in the overlapping area more than Cambodia. Mark DARE NOT speak to Hun Sen again in Japan. Just like Hua Hin. Sitting down willy nilly, especially with a loose cannon such as Hun Sen, is definitely unwise and Thai foreign ministry officials know this. Both Mark and Hun Sen also would expect Asean to be helpful too, which would require more time to talk and get the ducks in a row for each party. The onus to seeking any resolution of this mess rests squarely (pun intended) with Hun Sen. Abhisit is the guy to satisfy because Hun Sen is the aggressor, so Abhisit properly will wait until Hun Sen comes to his senses (what did I write??? Hun Sen come to his senses?!?!). #60
Rumfoord
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-06 22:20:00
Jayboy 0 Rinrada and Insight 1   - fail - win
#61
peecee
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-06 22:21:08
Quote Aiding and abetting a country with an active border dispute with your nation. This ain't like a Canadian going to work in Washington as an adviser. More like Argentina and Venezuela.... Wow, Argentina and Venezuela must have worked seriously hard to create that border dispute, given that they are 2000 kilometers away from one another.... Maybe it's an Ocean dispute! Thai Cambodia is more of an Asean conflagration!! 
#62
Yoshitaka
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-06 22:26:10
Who need the oil & gas more? Thailand or Cambodia?
#63
xminator
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-06 22:26:44
Those poll results look weird. Support for Abhisit up from 23.3% to 68.6% in two months? Don't Knows down from 65.2% to 10.3%. Anti-Abhisit up from 11.5% to 21.1% The timing of its release is perfect, and the numbers pulled out of someones ass after the previous failure lost his job. Its propaganda at its finest. #64
Publicus
Super Member Posted 2009-11-06 22:43:41
Those poll results look weird. Support for Abhisit up from 23.3% to 68.6% in two months? Don't Knows down from 65.2% to 10.3%. Anti-Abhisit up from 11.5% to 21.1% The timing of its release is perfect, and the numbers pulled out of someones ass after the previous failure lost his job. Its propaganda at its finest. #65
Insight
Titanium Member Posted 2009-11-06 22:44:42
Jayboy 0 Rinrada and Insight 1 - fail - winGet a job. #66
Publicus
Super Member Posted 2009-11-07 00:02:09
Jayboy 0 Rinrada and Insight 1 - fail - winGet a job. Life. #67
Rumfoord
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-07 00:35:57
- failGet a job. Life. get a brain and stay sober. nobody wins here if all overreact, having emotional outbursts, become angry and resort to nationalistic mania. Cambodia - zero points Thailand - one minus point i agree with Asa as quoted below:
Over appointment of TS advisory post, it over reacts. Thailand need not create an enmity out of Cambodia or other neighbours. Abhisit has many times shown his desire to be tough, all at the wrong times. Where he should be more open and direct, he dodges and goes around. Where he should be more diplomatic, he is childishly rude and stiff. If he cannot take he leader roles right, how we can trust him to lead. What is Thailand gain in going blatantly against Cambodia? A popular PM? #68
Thai at Heart
Sabai Sabai Member Posted 2009-11-07 00:47:42
Thailand need the petroleum resources in the overlapping area more than Cambodia. Mark DARE NOT speak to Hun Sen again in Japan. Just like Hua Hin. Sitting down willy nilly, especially with a loose cannon such as Hun Sen, is definitely unwise and Thai foreign ministry officials know this. Both Mark and Hun Sen also would expect Asean to be helpful too, which would require more time to talk and get the ducks in a row for each party. The onus to seeking any resolution of this mess rests squarely (pun intended) with Hun Sen. Abhisit is the guy to satisfy because Hun Sen is the aggressor, so Abhisit properly will wait until Hun Sen comes to his senses (what did I write??? Hun Sen come to his senses?!?!). It isn't a prerequisite that Abhisit be civil with Hun Sen whatsoever. Dealing with Cambodia actively harbouring Thaksin is a far easier situation than trying to handle him being in Dubai/Hong Kong or god knows where. This is actually a chance to (as weird as it seems) to slowly negotiate a way to shut Thaksin up. Let him be the go-between for business, and I think Thaksin may be happy. The land dispute has been running for donkeys years, and Thaksin won't live as long as a donkey. Let it remain up in the air for years to come. Abhisit really needs to throw the farmers a bone right now, price guarantees, loan guarantees, crop failure guarantees, free seedlings, export assistance, changwat co-ops. He needs to acknowledge that the middle man's days are numbered and he will be a hero in the N.East at least. Maybe his fingers can't reach as far as Chiangmai and the North. The issue is. can Abhisit keep the PAD from stirring the pot. This is a situation, where Abhisit should attend and lay out the intentions of the Thai government to pursue extradition through all legal channels and that is the totality of what he should say. It is very simple to cast the Cambodian govt as the bad guys in this situation and let Thaksin see out his days in Cambodia. There is absolutely no reason for there to be a confrontation, or an economic stand off. Money talks at the end of the day. #69
Insight
Titanium Member Posted 2009-11-07 00:50:25
get a brain and stay sober. Huh? Are you sure you're aware of the post ASA was originally referring to with his tongue-in-cheek scoreline? #70
Publicus
Super Member Posted 2009-11-07 01:16:08
Thailand need the petroleum resources in the overlapping area more than Cambodia. Mark DARE NOT speak to Hun Sen again in Japan. Just like Hua Hin. Sitting down willy nilly, especially with a loose cannon such as Hun Sen, is definitely unwise and Thai foreign ministry officials know this. Both Mark and Hun Sen also would expect Asean to be helpful too, which would require more time to talk and get the ducks in a row for each party. The onus to seeking any resolution of this mess rests squarely (pun intended) with Hun Sen. Abhisit is the guy to satisfy because Hun Sen is the aggressor, so Abhisit properly will wait until Hun Sen comes to his senses (what did I write??? Hun Sen come to his senses?!?!). It isn't a prerequisite that Abhisit be civil with Hun Sen whatsoever. Dealing with Cambodia actively harbouring Thaksin is a far easier situation than trying to handle him being in Dubai/Hong Kong or god knows where. This is actually a chance to (as weird as it seems) to slowly negotiate a way to shut Thaksin up. Let him be the go-between for business, and I think Thaksin may be happy. The land dispute has been running for donkeys years, and Thaksin won't live as long as a donkey. Let it remain up in the air for years to come. Abhisit really needs to throw the farmers a bone right now, price guarantees, loan guarantees, crop failure guarantees, free seedlings, export assistance, changwat co-ops. He needs to acknowledge that the middle man's days are numbered and he will be a hero in the N.East at least. Maybe his fingers can't reach as far as Chiangmai and the North. The issue is. can Abhisit keep the PAD from stirring the pot. This is a situation, where Abhisit should attend and lay out the intentions of the Thai government to pursue extradition through all legal channels and that is the totality of what he should say. It is very simple to cast the Cambodian govt as the bad guys in this situation and let Thaksin see out his days in Cambodia. There is absolutely no reason for there to be a confrontation, or an economic stand off. Money talks at the end of the day. However, how many among us could see Thaksin as being satisfied to see out his days as a business facilitator, much less in Cambodia? The guy's long since lost it, even before he had to fly by night to avoid imprisonment, and is hel_l bent to remake Thailand in his own image. First Cambodia, then Thaksin's only world, the LOS. Abhisit has shown survivalist capabilities that go well beyond those limited abilities his detractors always had assigned to him. Mark needs to show his pragmatism and survivalist instincts by showering the peasants of the North and Northeast with money. After all, for all the noise some Reds make about democracy, the love the peasantry have of Thaksin, the universal fact is that money talks at the end of the day. And very loudly besides. Edited by Publicus, 2009-11-07 01:22:42. #71
Rumfoord
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-07 01:33:00  Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya --- Ministry of Foreign Affairs Thailand Press Release - Termination of the Memorandum of Understanding between the Royal Thai Government and the Royal Government of Cambodia regarding the Area of their Overlapping Maritime Claims to the Continental Shelf November 6, 2009, 4:41 pm On 6 November 2009, Mr. Kasit Piromya, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Thailand, who is currently attending the 1st Mekong-Japan Summit in Tokyo, gave a telephone interview on latest developments of Thai-Cambodian relations. Gist as follows: The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Thailand has carefully considered the making of the Memorandum of Understanding between the Royal Thai Government and the Royal Government of Cambodia regarding the Area of their Overlapping Maritime Claims to the Continental Shelf, dated 18 June 2001 (MOU 2001), which was concluded by Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra's government. Having learned that Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin has been appointed as an economic advisor to the Royal Government of Cambodia, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Thailand will propose to the Cabinet that the said MOU be terminated for the following reasons: 1. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is of the view that the appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin as an economic advisor to the Royal Government of Cambodia will directly affect negotiations between Thailand and Cambodia under the framework of this MOU due to the fact that Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin was directly involved in the negotiation process. Accordingly, the Royal Thai Government cannot continue negotiations with Cambodia under the said MOU. 2. Furthermore, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is of the view that the overlapping claims of area between Thailand and Cambodia are matters of national interest, in particular, when considering that the overlapping area is over 26,000 square kilometres and has great potential in terms of natural resources. Negotiations on this matter thus affect immensely the economic and national security of Thailand. Therefore, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs deems it appropriate to proceed on this matter with public participation in line with democratic principles enshrined in the provisions of the present Constitution. 3. Negotiations under the framework of the MOU 2001 during the previous eight years have produced no progress. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is of the view that both countries should employ other avenues of negotiation in accordance with the principles of international law to achieve an equitable solution. http://www.mfa.go.th...35.php?id=23409 -------------------------- Ministry of Foreign Affairs Thailand Press Release - Royal Thai Government’s Position Regarding the Recent Appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra as Adviser to the Royal Government of Cambodia November 5, 2009, 5:30 pm Following the recent appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra as economic adviser to the Royal Government of Cambodia and personal adviser to Prime Minister Samdech Hun Sen and the decision to deny any request for extradition of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin in accordance with the Extradition Treaty between Thailand and Cambodia, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs wishes to state the following: 1. The Royal Thai Government has conveyed to the Royal Government of Cambodia on several occasions that bilateral relations between both countries should take precedence over any personal relationship. 2. Actions taken by the Royal Government of Cambodia involving Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin cannot be separated from relations between the two countries. As Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin is a fugitive in a criminal case and is still active politically in Thailand, such actions inevitably affect the sentiment of the people of Thailand. 3. The appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin as economic adviser to the Royal Government of Cambodia and personal adviser to Prime Minister Samdech Hun Sen is therefore seen as interference in Thailand’s domestic affairs and failure to respect Thailand’s judicial system. It puts personal interest and relations before the national interests of the two countries. 4. Therefore, the Royal Thai Government cannot stand idly by and has to take into consideration the sentiment of its people. Any action taken by the Royal Thai Government is to make known to the Royal Government of Cambodia the resentment of the Thai people. 5. The aforementioned action of the Royal Government of Cambodia has thus compelled the Royal Thai Government to review its relations with Cambodia and to take the following measures: 5.1 Recall the Thai Ambassador to Phnom Penh. 5.2 Review all existing bilateral agreements and cooperation projects made with Cambodia. 5.3 Review ongoing cooperation that the Royal Thai Government has extended to Cambodia. It is with regret that the Royal Thai Government must undertake such a review as it has always been the Royal Thai Government’s commitment to cooperate with Cambodia for the development of the Cambodian people’s livelihood and to narrow the gap between Cambodia and other ASEAN member countries. http://www.mfa.go.th...35.php?id=23403 #72
tb86
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-07 01:38:06  One would imagine that holding a position in a foriegn government would pretty much make you ineligable to return to politics in ones home country, by being sworn in to a office in Cambodia your going to have to formally align yourself with the best intrests of Cambodia, and possibly against Thailand. Personaly I think taxins appointment maybe one of the best things possible for the current pm.... you couldnt buy better pr to make the guy look like a bigger traitor.
#73
oevna
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-07 02:26:46
"Thaksin's appointment is seen as an interference in Thailand's domestic affairs and a failure to respect the Thai judicial system," he said. <sarcasm> Because it is truly a judicial system worthy of respect. </sarcasm> 
#74
BIGTOE3
Super Member Posted 2009-11-07 02:32:02
Does Thaskin still have his Thai Police bodyguards ?
He did in the UK. BT #75
Rumfoord
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-07 02:42:00
Actions taken by the Royal Government of Cambodia involving Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin cannot be separated from relations between the two countries. As Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin is a fugitive in a criminal case and is still active politically in Thailand, such actions inevitably affect the sentiment of the people of Thailand. surprisingly, they still referring to him as Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra. and according to the Thai Government the problem is the following: Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra wrongdoings:
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