112 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-11-07 04:52:14
 Rumfoord, on 2009-11-07 02:42:00, said:
surprisingly, they still referring to him as Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra.
and according to the Thai Government the problem is the following:
Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra wrongdoings:- - fugitive in a criminal case
- - is still active politically
Royal Government of Cambodia wrongdoings:- - deny any request for extradition of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin (calling such request only politically motivated)
- - failure to respect Thailand's judicial system (calling the conviction only politically motivated)
And why not? Last I heard, Mr. T hasn't been stripped of his police rank.
According to the locals...
Royal Thai Government (Abhisit and Co.) wrongdoings:
- - failure to govern
- - spending too much time and resources pursuing one man
Edited by Supernova, 2009-11-07 04:55:22.
Posted 2009-11-07 06:52:11
DIPLOMATIC ROW
Maritime pact scrapped
By Supalak Ganjanakhundee
The Nation
Published on November 7, 2009
PM Abhisit : Cambodia must make first move to defuse conflict FM Kasit : Situation has changed since Thaksin's appointment
Thailand yesterday terminated the memorandum of understanding on overlapping maritime areas with Cambodia that was signed during Thaksin Shinawatra's administration in 2001.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he was adopting a "wait-and-see" approach on the current conflict with the neighbouring country.
Speaking via telephone conference from Tokyo, Foreign Ministry Kasit Piromya said the circumstances surrounding the MoU had changed as Thaksin was now appointed an adviser to the Cambodian government.
"Thaksin knows the Thai position, so Thailand cannot negotiate with Cambodia based on this agreement," he said.
Responding later by video conference to questions from reporters at Government House, Abhisit said: " It was not Thailand that had started it [the current dispute] - it was the Cambodians.
Therefore, it is they who have to review their position. Right now, we are adopting a wait-and-see approach."
When asked if he had spoken to Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen at an official dinner last night in Tokyo, Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view.
Thailand signed the MoU on the area of overlapping maritime claims in the continental shelf in 2001, but the two countries have not yet made progress on developing and sharing of benefit in the area, Kasit said.
The 26,000-square-kilometre area, with abundant natural gas, is regarded as being in Thailand's national interest and everyone involved should participate in the development of the resource in accordance with the new Constitution, he said.
The Cabinet will discuss the MoU's termination next week and will inform Phnom Penh at an early opportunity, Kasit added.
The termination has further fuelled tensions in relations between Thailand and Cambodia, as the two countries on Thursday announced the downgrading of bilateral ties and recalled their ambassadors.
Thailand and Cambodia granted natural-gas concessions in the overlapping area to many companies, but they cannot exploit the resource as long as the countries are unable to reach any agreement.
Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, meanwhile, threatened to close the Thai-Cambodian border to trade if Cambodia continued to take an aggressive stance towards the government.
Noppadon Pattama, foreign minister under the Samak Sundaravej administration, said recalling the Thai ambassador was "damaging to Thailand and placed the country at unnecessary risk".
"It's inappropriate to use politics to pressure a neighbouring country," he said.
Suriyasai Katasila, spokesman for the People's Alliance for Democracy, denounced Thaksin for allowing himself to be use by Cambodia and praised the government for the measures taken in response to Cambodia.
He urged the government to review bilateral agreements between the countries, especially ones that place Thailand at a disadvantage on the issue of overlapping claims.
In Phnom Penh, Cambodian government spokesman Phay Siphan dismissed the threats late yesterday and said closing the border would be "an overreaction" that would hurt Thai businessmen more than it would hurt Cambodians living in the area.
He added that Thailand should respect the contents of the agreement on oil and gas exploration.
"They should abide by their international obligations," he said. "This kind of panic [reaction] by the Thai government - they should hold onto their credibility." Thaksin was prime minister from 2001 to 2006 before being toppled by a coup. He faces a two-year jail sentence in Thailand for abuse of power for allowing his billionaire wife in 2003 to successfully bid on a prime plot of Bangkok land in a government
-- The Nation 2009/11/07
Posted 2009-11-07 06:58:28
Embassy on alert but life goes on
By The Nation
Published on November 7, 2009
A senior Thai security officer in Bangkok said yesterday that intelligence and security agencies were drafting contingency plans that included the downsizing of staff at the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh, as well as an evacuation in case the diplomatic tensions translate into another anti-Thai riot.
Thai businessmen in Cambodia have been briefed about the situation and will continue to remain engaged with embassy staff for regular updates, the officer said on condition of anonymity.
But while the diplomatic fallout has forced officials there to look over their shoulders, no one thinks diplomatic tension will translate into another anti-Thai riot as was seen in January 2003 when the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh was torched along with Thai-owned businesses and other establishments.
According to the officer - who is observing the situation very closely - the embassy in Phnom Penh has been instructed to continue with standard operating procedures for the time being.
About 50 armed police and soldiers are posted in front of the embassy, said the officer, who added that there were no signs of any sort of protest in the making.
"Unlike the anti-Thai riot [in 2003], the Cambodia government appears to be taking adequate preventive measures to prevent a similar incident," said the officer.
"But then again, public protests are often orchestrated by political figures. If someone wants to see the embassy attacked again, they can set things in motion," said the officer.
Changes to standard operating prodcedures will depend on the situation on the ground. But as of yesterday there had been no restrictions on the movements of officers assigned to the embassy, according to another intelligence officer.
Thailand's 2nd Army Region commander, Lt-General Weewalit Jorasamrit, said the situation along the border near the Preah Vihear Temple remained normal.
"Contrary to some news reports, Cambodia has not at all called for reinforcements. We have not increased the number of our troops either," he said.
Crossing along the Thai-Cambodia common border also continued as usual yesterday as local residents and small traders carried on with their daily activities.
More than 5,000 Cambodian vendors and workers travelled past the Ban Khlong Leuk checkpoint yesterday to earn their livings in Na Klua market.
At their stalls, the Cambodian traders were seen glued to TV to check news updates about Thai-Cambodian relations.
Thai gamblers, however, were clearly reluctant to travel to casinos in Cambodia's Poi Pet.
Not many Thais went past Aranyaprathet to the casinos yesterday.
The tension has also taken its toll on the air-travel industry, as some foreign visitors heading to Cambodia via Thailand decided to remain in Thailand for the duration of their holidays.
-- The Nation 2009/11/07
Posted 2009-11-07 07:24:04
Disorder - Can you post quotes in full please, and stop fiddling with them? I have no idea the quote in your last post is referring to without clicking the link.
Thanks for your co-operation.
dataserver
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Posted 2009-11-07 07:38:08
webfact, on 2009-11-07 07:52:11, said: Maritime pact scrapped
Thailand yesterday terminated the memorandum of understanding on overlapping maritime areas with Cambodia that was signed during Thaksin Shinawatra's administration in 2001.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he was adopting a "wait-and-see" approach on the current conflict with the neighbouring country.
The 26,000-square-kilometre area, with abundant natural gas, is regarded as being in Thailand's national interest and everyone involved should participate in the development of the resource in accordance with the new Constitution, he said.
The Cabinet will discuss the MoU's termination next week and will inform Phnom Penh at an early opportunity, Kasit added.
It's no wonder the dispute exists as long as the Cambodia thinks their maritime border juts out at a right angle immediately where the sea starts. It just thinly misses encompassing the the chain of islands of Koh Chang in this bizarre and absurd and unrealistic expectation of theirs.
maritime_map.JPG 22.15K
34 downloads
Posted 2009-11-07 07:46:36
jayboy, on 2009-11-06 14:05:11, said: samran, on 2009-11-06 10:57:47, said: what do you mean? He's up in opinion polls...No points lost as far as I can see.
Oh dear, is this you you measure things - ABAC polls asking a few urban Sino-Thai housewives how they feel?
Following a snap poll of 7 caddies on a local golf course.
Results from 1 month ago:
Popularity-Thaksin 100%- Abhisit- what/where is that?
Results from Friday
Popularity Thaksin 100% -Abhisit - what/where is that? And what/who is a Cambodia?
So little change here, we will conduct a similar survey next month. 
Disclaimer;
We cannot guarantee the results of this poll as the questions were asked in English and the answers were given in Thai and the results are based on what we thought the caddies said. 
Posted 2009-11-07 07:50:44
jayboy, on 2009-11-06 14:05:11, said: samran, on 2009-11-06 10:57:47, said: what do you mean? He's up in opinion polls...No points lost as far as I can see.
Oh dear, is this you you measure things - ABAC polls asking a few urban Sino-Thai housewives how they feel?
really don't get you. Post 45 you thought my position was reasonable.
Or, didn't you realise that you were responding to me in post 45? But you are now so feel the need to be dismissive?
Strange. Can't explain it otherwise....I thought your postings were always well though out....a sign of your superior intelligence, intellectual grounding and your ability to out-debate the rest of us. Guess not.
Posted 2009-11-07 08:05:09
Hi All.
What would Thaksins position be if a real shooting war broke out between Thailand and Cambodia?
He has really compromised himself on this one, What do you think he will advise Hun Sen?
I say treat him the same as the UK treated Lord Haw Haw after the last war,What do any country do to traitors and failed revolution leader's? Answer Swift Execution.
phupaman
Posted 2009-11-07 08:14:32
Wait and see, one crook cosies up to another, business as normal in PP. Dont forget the looming storm clouds on the horizon, when ykw shuffles off this mortal coil. The SET soiled itself with fright at the mere rumour of such unsettlement
take a look at the big picture, where will U be in 10 years time 
Posted 2009-11-07 08:32:20
elcent, on 2009-11-06 22:02:07, said: Ricardo, on 2009-11-06 21:51:36, said: elcent, on 2009-11-06 19:36:42, said: You can't revoke an international binding agreement because of overemotional mood swings as if in meno pause. Only alterations can be made when mutually agreed.
Wouldn't that apply equally to Hun Sen refusing to honour an extradition-treaty ? 
Thaksin would have been long before extradited if the situation would have warranted it. Like from England, Germany, Malaysia, UAE and others. Most refused to accept him in their country to avoid political meddling with Thailand but that is not an equivalent reason for an extradition and/or agreement by international standards.
Nice try, but you didn't answer my question.
Either the MOU and the extradition-treaty should be respected, or they can both be disregarded, you can't have it both ways.
Posted 2009-11-07 08:42:09
[/quote]
It's no wonder the dispute exists as long as the Cambodia thinks their maritime border juts out at a right angle immediately where the sea starts. It just thinly misses encompassing the the chain of islands of Koh Chang in this bizarre and absurd and unrealistic expectation of theirs.
maritime_map.JPG 22.15K
34 downloads
[/quote]
Absolutely agree it's absurd... 
Posted 2009-11-07 09:05:33
webfact, on 2009-11-07 07:52:11, said: The Nation
...
Responding later by video conference to questions from reporters at Government House, Abhisit said: " It was not Thailand that had started it [the current dispute] - it was the Cambodians.
Therefore, it is they who have to review their position. Right now, we are adopting a wait-and-see approach."
When asked if he had spoken to Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen at an official dinner last night in Tokyo, Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view.
did he said that? " there was a vase between them obstructing his view."? really?
Posted 2009-11-07 09:20:21
samran, on 2009-11-07 01:50:44, said: jayboy, on 2009-11-06 14:05:11, said: samran, on 2009-11-06 10:57:47, said: what do you mean? He's up in opinion polls...No points lost as far as I can see.
Oh dear, is this you you measure things - ABAC polls asking a few urban Sino-Thai housewives how they feel?
really don't get you. Post 45 you thought my position was reasonable.
Or, didn't you realise that you were responding to me in post 45? But you are now so feel the need to be dismissive?
Strange. Can't explain it otherwise....I thought your postings were always well though out....a sign of your superior intelligence, intellectual grounding and your ability to out-debate the rest of us. Guess not.
I must admit I was being facetious about the ABAC poll.I agree however Abhisit's actions on this matter have done him no harm domestically.Having said that my earlier "petulant child" remark doesn't look too far from the truth with the growing diplomatic response both in ASEAN and elsewhere that Abhisit ramped up the conflict too quickly and too unthinkingly.
Posted 2009-11-07 13:28:56
dataserver, on 2009-11-07 07:38:08, said: webfact, on 2009-11-07 07:52:11, said: Maritime pact scrapped
Thailand yesterday terminated the memorandum of understanding on overlapping maritime areas with Cambodia that was signed during Thaksin Shinawatra's administration in 2001.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he was adopting a "wait-and-see" approach on the current conflict with the neighbouring country.
The 26,000-square-kilometre area, with abundant natural gas, is regarded as being in Thailand's national interest and everyone involved should participate in the development of the resource in accordance with the new Constitution, he said.
The Cabinet will discuss the MoU's termination next week and will inform Phnom Penh at an early opportunity, Kasit added.
It's no wonder the dispute exists as long as the Cambodia thinks their maritime border juts out at a right angle immediately where the sea starts. It just thinly misses encompassing the the chain of islands of Koh Chang in this bizarre and absurd and unrealistic expectation of theirs.
maritime_map.JPG 22.15K
34 downloads
A truly amazing claim.
Posted 2009-11-07 14:05:02
jayboy, on 2009-11-07 09:20:21, said: samran, on 2009-11-07 01:50:44, said: jayboy, on 2009-11-06 14:05:11, said: samran, on 2009-11-06 10:57:47, said: what do you mean? He's up in opinion polls...No points lost as far as I can see.
Oh dear, is this you you measure things - ABAC polls asking a few urban Sino-Thai housewives how they feel?
really don't get you. Post 45 you thought my position was reasonable.
Or, didn't you realise that you were responding to me in post 45? But you are now so feel the need to be dismissive?
Strange. Can't explain it otherwise....I thought your postings were always well though out....a sign of your superior intelligence, intellectual grounding and your ability to out-debate the rest of us. Guess not.
I must admit I was being facetious about the ABAC poll.I agree however Abhisit's actions on this matter have done him no harm domestically.Having said that my earlier "petulant child" remark doesn't look too far from the truth with the growing diplomatic response both in ASEAN and elsewhere that Abhisit ramped up the conflict too quickly and too unthinkingly.
But why assume it is only or even Abhisit they blame. Hun Sen was the one that raised the stakes by appointing someone who was a convicted criminal (technically that is fact) and at least in statements wanted for extraditon. Prior to this move Kasit said some horrible things about Hun Sen and Hun Sen said some horrible things about Abhisit and his government. That however, was kids play. Plenty of leaders including western ones make horrible comments about other world leaders and governments ion a dialy basis. How many countries in the world would like a neighbour to appoint an ex-politco convicted of a crime and sought for extradtion as an adviser and how would the hurt country react? Just imagine if say Jordan or even worse great satan Iran appointed Mullah Omar as an adviser, and he hasnt even been convicted of anything.
Hun Sen is playing his own political game and if he can get a better gas/oil deal promised by Thaksin from a PTP government and he can also be seen by his people as standing up to the old enemy then it poltically helps him. The current Thai govenment are bound to react to this. Recalling the ambassador and ripping up an MoU negotiated directly under Thaksin and one which was quite nice for the Cambodians are pretty much in line with what would be expected. You can find similar examples in Latin America where say Colombia and Venezuela regularly recall amabassadors for various slights maybe of a lesser nature than this. It is also within a context of deteriorating relations between Thailand and Cambodia over quite some time.
Posted 2009-11-07 14:14:22
hammered, on 2009-11-07 14:05:02, said: How many countries in the world would like a neighbour to appoint an ex-politco convicted of a crime and sought for extradtion as an adviser and how would the hurt country react?
None to the first question, decisively and swifty to the second.
Had Abhisit simply ignored Hun Sen's move as being unimportant, the same members here who are now jumping up and down saying he has over-reacted, would be jumping up and down saying he is weak and fearful.
Posted 2009-11-07 14:29:03
Hi All.
Thaksin is a Thai civilian No political p0st anywhere, a fugitive criminal on the run, his No 1 ambition is to try his best to bring down the Thai Gov by any means whatsoever ,continuous propergander via videolink and Television, rallying the redshirts to commit violence against the Thai people and allegidly the odd bomb, If this is not treasonous behaviour ,What is? The Thai Government needs to get tough with this man. He has gone way to far already, and must be stopped.
phupaman
Posted 2009-11-07 16:38:40
Thailand, on 2009-11-07 07:46:36, said: jayboy, on 2009-11-06 14:05:11, said: samran, on 2009-11-06 10:57:47, said: what do you mean? He's up in opinion polls...No points lost as far as I can see.
Oh dear, is this you you measure things - ABAC polls asking a few urban Sino-Thai housewives how they feel?
Following a snap poll of 7 caddies on a local golf course.
Results from 1 month ago:
Popularity-Thaksin 100%- Abhisit- what/where is that?
Results from Friday
Popularity Thaksin 100% -Abhisit - what/where is that? And what/who is a Cambodia?
So little change here, we will conduct a similar survey next month.
Disclaimer;
We cannot guarantee the results of this poll as the questions were asked in English and the answers were given in Thai and the results are based on what we thought the caddies said.
i didn't realise the people of Chiang Mai were so ignorant they didn't even know what Cambodia is. That would explain their previous support for Thaksin.
Posted 2009-11-07 16:41:02
Rumfoord, on 2009-11-07 09:05:33, said: webfact, on 2009-11-07 07:52:11, said: The Nation
...
Responding later by video conference to questions from reporters at Government House, Abhisit said: " It was not Thailand that had started it [the current dispute] - it was the Cambodians.
Therefore, it is they who have to review their position. Right now, we are adopting a wait-and-see approach."
When asked if he had spoken to Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen at an official dinner last night in Tokyo, Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view.
did he said that? " there was a vase between them obstructing his view."? really?
Difficult for Apisit to talk to Hun Sen as Hun Sen only speaks Khmer, no English or Thai.
I wonder if his interpreter always translates correctly?
Posted 2009-11-07 16:42:26
phupaman, on 2009-11-07 15:29:03, said: Hi All.
Thaksin is a Thai civilian No political p0st anywhere, a fugitive criminal on the run, his No 1 ambition is to try his best to bring down the Thai Gov by any means whatsoever ,continuous propergander via videolink and Television, rallying the redshirts to commit violence against the Thai people and allegidly the odd bomb, If this is not treasonous behaviour ,What is? The Thai Government needs to get tough with this man. He has gone way to far already, and must be stopped.
phupaman
What superhero should we call upon?
Maybe not a superhero...maybe Underdog?
Or Ultraman?
I know...
Call in Barney Fife! 
Posted 2009-11-07 18:28:17
Hi All.
Maybe just 1oz of lead!!!!!!
Phupaman
Posted 2009-11-07 19:46:06
Abhisit's reaction can be debated either way, but I doubt that there will be any heated conflict before Nov. 15 (when Obama comes to meet with ASEAN).
This situation and Abhisit's reaction, greatly assists him nationally (whether the irrational dislike between the countries is a positive thing or not, I won't posit here), but this does somewhat hurt his position within ASEAN. While the other leaders know what kind of person and leader Hun Sen is (and therefore have sympathy for Abhisit), ASEAN focuses on keeping this facade of unity intact, so there will be pressure on Abhisit to be patient with Hun Sen.
Nationally, Abhisit wins more popularity the more he can be seen as "defending Thailand". Thaksin only wins from this in that he gets carte blanche in a country that allows for his form of cronyism. Maybe he has given up on coming back? Otherwise, as I said earlier, I can't wait to see how Jatuporn will spin this to rile up the red shirts. I can't see any way that this could do anything but label Thaksin as a traitor to the Thai people, but then again, TiT - anything can be spun.
Posted 2009-11-07 20:17:34
Yoshitaka, on 2009-11-06 09:49:19, said: Mark have no guts to speak to Hun Sen face to face.
They just met and dine together only a week or two ago.
The two never spoke (or harly spoke).
All that the Thai government PR said was that everything was already cleared, it was a small misunderstanding.
Question is: Why is Mark afraid to speak to Hun Sen, or will that make Mark "Loss Face".
Question: Will Mark speak to Hun Sen in Japan (this week), or will that make Mark "Loss Face" too?
He's not scared are you kidding me? Hun Sen is a political thug like Taksin with even less tact or class (if such a thing is possible). In any sort of verbal confrontation Markbama would make him look like a illiterate peasant. It's just that he knows better than to argue with a fool. He would have nothing to gain politicaly, while Hun Sen would gain legitamancy by even being formaly addressed along these lines by his betters. And Abhisit is clearly his better.
Posted 2009-11-07 20:25:14
phupaman, on 2009-11-07 09:05:09, said: Hi All.
What would Thaksins position be if a real shooting war broke out between Thailand and Cambodia?
He has really compromised himself on this one, What do you think he will advise Hun Sen?
I say treat him the same as the UK treated Lord Haw Haw after the last war,What do any country do to traitors and failed revolution leader's? Answer Swift Execution.
phupaman
Exactly. It would almost be like Bush going to advise Iran on their nuclear program or something. Even as messed up as Bush was, and I hated bush, even he's better than that.
Posted 2009-11-07 20:37:57
Thaksin is now an official of the government of Cambodia, attached to the Office of the Prime Minister. The appointment's been made. If Thaksin has an oath of office, Thaksin will be (is?) loyal to the Crown of Cambodia.
How many Thais have managed such a feat?
Which Thai wants such fame........or notoriety?
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