Difficult to compare apples and apples here - if a person were to mirror their lifestyle exactly in both locations then yes, Thailand is less expensive than England. But people don't do that, instead they adapt to their location. For Brits in the UK there is a an opportunity to work on occasion and therefore to increase their income should they wish, that option doesn't exist in Thailand. Similarly, the person who lives in inexpensive accommodation in Pattaya and spends a lot of money on cheap beer is unlikely to have adopt that same lifestyle in the UK I would guess. So the variables in this debate are not only the cost of consumer goods etc but also the changes in lifestyle that take place based on where a person lives. For me personally, I maintain that UK and Thai living costs are broadly very similar. The fact that I don't spend a portion of my income on taxes means that I now spend that money in a different way.
0
Thailand Is Not Cheap!!!
Started by CrossBones, 2009-11-06 16:18
#177
some grey dots Posted 2009-11-15 08:18:19
The Cheaper Bowl continues.
#178
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-15 08:48:59
Difficult to compare apples and apples here - if a person were to mirror their lifestyle exactly in both locations then yes, Thailand is less expensive than England. But people don't do that, instead they adapt to their location. For Brits in the UK there is a an opportunity to work on occasion and therefore to increase their income should they wish, that option doesn't exist in Thailand. Similarly, the person who lives in inexpensive accommodation in Pattaya and spends a lot of money on cheap beer is unlikely to have adopt that same lifestyle in the UK I would guess. So the variables in this debate are not only the cost of consumer goods etc but also the changes in lifestyle that take place based on where a person lives. For me personally, I maintain that UK and Thai living costs are broadly very similar. The fact that I don't spend a portion of my income on taxes means that I now spend that money in a different way. So to adapt one must consider: hot water a luxury a microwave a gift from above a fridge the size of a shoe box as normal No clothes dryer as normal No dish washer machine as normal driving a crappy car as normal Forgetting that there is such a thing a central air conditioning etc etc.... Then after all of that adapting..... living life in Thailand is cheap..... and I contend, if I lived the above life style in the states, life would have been very cheap too. The wife and I live on a budget of about 80K a month, and we have no rent no utilitis. Just food, gas, insurance etc. We sock away about 15K USD a year. But that 15K even if I were to spend it rather than save it would not push me up in to the BMW life style I had in the states. #179
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-15 10:03:43
Difficult to compare apples and apples here - if a person were to mirror their lifestyle exactly in both locations then yes, Thailand is less expensive than England. But people don't do that, instead they adapt to their location. For Brits in the UK there is a an opportunity to work on occasion and therefore to increase their income should they wish, that option doesn't exist in Thailand. Similarly, the person who lives in inexpensive accommodation in Pattaya and spends a lot of money on cheap beer is unlikely to have adopt that same lifestyle in the UK I would guess. So the variables in this debate are not only the cost of consumer goods etc but also the changes in lifestyle that take place based on where a person lives. For me personally, I maintain that UK and Thai living costs are broadly very similar. The fact that I don't spend a portion of my income on taxes means that I now spend that money in a different way. So to adapt one must consider: hot water a luxury a microwave a gift from above a fridge the size of a shoe box as normal No clothes dryer as normal No dish washer machine as normal driving a crappy car as normal Forgetting that there is such a thing a central air conditioning etc etc.... Then after all of that adapting..... living life in Thailand is cheap..... and I contend, if I lived the above life style in the states, life would have been very cheap too. The wife and I live on a budget of about 80K a month, and we have no rent no utilitis. Just food, gas, insurance etc. We sock away about 15K USD a year. But that 15K even if I were to spend it rather than save it would not push me up in to the BMW life style I had in the states. What is your job? #180
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-15 10:19:16
Food, rent and fuel are much cheaper here and many things are the same. Almost nothing is more expensive here than in England. If you are spending anything like what you spend in the UK to live, something is wrong somewhere.  Another poster has commented on clothing in places like Tescos, and legal costs here for farng are more expensive on a comparable basis. Really all to do with what the market can bare. You are ceratinlty right, Ulysses, in saying in a later post that not all places charge the same drinks prices. Go where the Thais go, after all we live here. Going to a farang establishment for the company, the atmosphere or whatever is fine - each to his own - but don't then complain about prices. #181
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-15 10:38:47
That's probably the first thing that I noticed on my trip...$4 for a bottled beer The most expensive restaurants may charge that my part of the States but it's standard in Thailand.  Agreed even the top pubs in bkk like soi8 serve tiger pint all day for 99bht. Most of the smaller bars have bottled beer for around 80 bht. Interesting quite a few compare top resteraunts etc but in reality how often would you dine at doyles? once every 2 weeks maybe but we all need to eat everyday and comparing apples if you have lunch everyday in sydney you would be paying $5 for a sandwich $7 for an exotic one, botlled water $1.50. Great every day food at Paragon food hall for 70bht and huge selection. try getting something that tatsty for a quick lunch in the malls on George st for $1.70??. There is a great Vietnamese place bottom of george st that I frequent regularly when there. Its full every lunch and dinner mostly Vietnamese. $10.50 for a bowl of rice noodles and beef soup and its a grubby little place no alcohol plastic chairs. but tasty food. Insane pricing! Edited by zorro1, 2009-11-15 10:52:47. #182
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-15 13:01:49
I guess it is time for you to head back to Australia if you are not already there? Thailand is much cheaper to raise a family. You can get taken advantage of anywhere,not just Thailand. People that do get taken usually have poor judgment so they tend to screw themselves no matter where they live. If you are buying mostly falang food then of course you are going to pay out the arse. I admit that to own a car is expensive here, but no more than my home country. At least I can tool around on a cheap motorbike to save putting gas into my car, and often times it is much more convenient. Im trying to compare Farang lifestyle in Thailand to farang lifestyle in farangland. 
#183
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-15 15:08:07
I guess it is time for you to head back to Australia if you are not already there? Thailand is much cheaper to raise a family. You can get taken advantage of anywhere,not just Thailand. People that do get taken usually have poor judgment so they tend to screw themselves no matter where they live. If you are buying mostly falang food then of course you are going to pay out the arse. I admit that to own a car is expensive here, but no more than my home country. At least I can tool around on a cheap motorbike to save putting gas into my car, and often times it is much more convenient. No one has mentioned that rents in Thailand (Chiang Mai at least) are still very cheap. It should not be a surprise to anyone that imported goods, foods, beer, etc. are at least as expensive as in your home country; maybe more. I think that anyone who has lived here for a number of years or has been coming here on holiday will admit that prices have gone up a heck of a lot in the last 20 years. I mean a lot! Thailand ain't cheap anymore... #184
Super Member Posted 2009-11-15 15:24:55
So to adapt one must consider: hot water a luxury a microwave a gift from above a fridge the size of a shoe box as normal No clothes dryer as normal No dish washer machine as normal Quote driving a crappy car as normal Quote Forgetting that there is such a thing a central air conditioning Edited by wintermute, 2009-11-15 15:25:32. #185
Super Member Posted 2009-11-15 15:31:35
I think you';re slightly missing the point William. Clearly an oilers salary is going to go much further in Thailand than in Canada, so on that basis, where essentially you come here as a 'tourist' on a foreign salary, then yes, it's cheaper. The real point is, if you live here and earn your salary in baht, is it cheaper? You are the one missing the point. Your salary has nothing to do with it. The OP says that Thailand is, "not cheap", but compared to London, it certainly is. It all depends on the person's tastes to begin with. I may enjoy a good steak occasionally but I don't give a flying fig about the other fatty trash or microbrewery beer that a lot of westerners pine for. Thailand has an abundance of tropical fruit, good quality rice, and lots of great vegetables that would cost an arm and a leg in the States. The greatest expense is food, rent, and health care anywhere in the world. I think Thailand wins over the U.S. hands down in all those areas. Edited by wintermute, 2009-11-15 15:33:02. #186
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-15 15:49:06
Anyone who has lived here for 10 years plus will have seen a huge rise in the price of everyday food items in the the last couple of years. Before that prices showed very little inflation and resistance to increases from the purchasing public help to keep things in check.. There are so many food stalls and markets competing that anywhere seen as 'expensib' disn't last long..
Unfortunately the scrapping of the Govt fuel subsidy and the huge increase in oil price was a good excuse for all and sundry to raise prices.. Often they go un-noticed.. Foodlands ''Took lae Dee'' diner is no longer 'took' their 20 baht coffee now runs to 27 baht (a 30% rise) Milk has also jumped from 30 baht to 39 for the standard 830cl bottle.. (another 30% rise) Of course prices have also risen in Western countries too.. Those of us who have lived here for many years often only remember the prices 'back home' when we left and are out of touch with the sad reality... For me ? All I know is that I live a very comfortable lifestyle on less than the 30 odd K that I would have to give old Gordon Brown in tax if I lived in his over taxed and over stretched mess of a country... So in that sense Thailand is still cheap... but no as cheap as it was.. Oh and I forgot the fact that old GB had bu**ered the pound as well.. 
Edited by Pdaz, 2009-11-15 15:50:24. #187
Super Member Posted 2009-11-15 15:58:27
Often they go un-noticed.. Foodlands ''Took lae Dee'' diner is no longer 'took' their 20 baht coffee now runs to 27 baht (a 30% rise) Milk has also jumped from 30 baht to 39 for the standard 830cl bottle.. (another 30% rise)  Boy a 7 baht increase on a cup of coffee how do you survive in this economic roller coaster? Here's a tip: Freshly ground coffee and a french press. Best investment you can ever make plus the price of decent ground coffee here hasn't gone up much in the past few years that I can tell. Some stalls may charge more in the tourist areas because there are plenty of suckers willing to pay.
#188
some grey dots Posted 2009-11-15 17:16:50
"The gap is never going to be as great as it was" if you don't continually increase your income to keep it that way. Otherwise this thread may as well be called 'prices go up over time.'
#189
Ex Member Posted 2009-11-15 17:49:26
Difficult to compare apples and apples here - if a person were to mirror their lifestyle exactly in both locations then yes, Thailand is less expensive than England. But people don't do that, instead they adapt to their location. For Brits in the UK there is a an opportunity to work on occasion and therefore to increase their income should they wish, that option doesn't exist in Thailand. Similarly, the person who lives in inexpensive accommodation in Pattaya and spends a lot of money on cheap beer is unlikely to have adopt that same lifestyle in the UK I would guess. So the variables in this debate are not only the cost of consumer goods etc but also the changes in lifestyle that take place based on where a person lives. For me personally, I maintain that UK and Thai living costs are broadly very similar. The fact that I don't spend a portion of my income on taxes means that I now spend that money in a different way. So to adapt one must consider: hot water a luxury a microwave a gift from above a fridge the size of a shoe box as normal No clothes dryer as normal No dish washer machine as normal driving a crappy car as normal Forgetting that there is such a thing a central air conditioning etc etc.... Then after all of that adapting..... living life in Thailand is cheap..... and I contend, if I lived the above life style in the states, life would have been very cheap too. The wife and I live on a budget of about 80K a month, and we have no rent no utilitis. Just food, gas, insurance etc. We sock away about 15K USD a year. But that 15K even if I were to spend it rather than save it would not push me up in to the BMW life style I had in the states. All the consumer items you've listed are pretty much standard every day fare in Thailand and easily available - good quality cars and appliances are very much the norm for most expats and indeed, many Thai's also. #190
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-15 19:51:23
You know, folks, the question of the relative cost of living in Thailand (at least, Bangkok) versus major cities around the world has been settled for a long time. A company called Mercer publishes annually a comparison of the costs of the same standard of living for the major cities of the world, which is to say, a basket of goods of comparable quality including rent. On the Mercer survey, the cost of living in New York City is set at an index value of 100. Moscow comes in at 142. Bangkok at 75. That's for 2008. The complete Mercer report costs money, but it is frequently excerpted in the media, for instance, here:
http://www.homeinasi.../40/40/lang,th/ There are other measures also based on baskets of goods, such as one by UBS that rates BKK as 58 compared to 100 for New York for 2009, cited here by the BOI: http://www.boi.go.th:8080/issue_content.ph...ueid=56;page=99 So, a reasonable estimation based on a disciplined survey (rather than endlessly citing the cost of a beer at some pub) is that it living in Bangkok costs 58% to 75% of what it costs to live in New York without reducing the standard of living. You can compare BKK against the major city of your country and then adjust if you don't live in BKK. Sheesh. #191
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-15 20:00:12
All I can say is avoid TOPS market for produce. Prices are ~50% or more than everywhere else. Absurdly expensive.
I don't know who's setting their prices but they need to be reminded this is Thailand, not freakin' Switzerland...sheesh. Edited by ballzafire, 2009-11-15 20:02:41. #192
Ex Member Posted 2009-11-15 20:05:44
You know, folks, the question of the relative cost of living in Thailand (at least, Bangkok) versus major cities around the world has been settled for a long time. A company called Mercer publishes annually a comparison of the costs of the same standard of living for the major cities of the world, which is to say, a basket of goods of comparable quality including rent. On the Mercer survey, the cost of living in New York City is set at an index value of 100. Moscow comes in at 142. Bangkok at 75. That's for 2008. The complete Mercer report costs money, but it is frequently excerpted in the media, for instance, here: http://www.homeinasi.../40/40/lang,th/ There are other measures also based on baskets of goods, such as one by UBS that rates BKK as 58 compared to 100 for New York for 2009, cited here by the BOI: http://www.boi.go.th:8080/issue_content.ph...ueid=56;page=99 So, a reasonable estimation based on a disciplined survey (rather than endlessly citing the cost of a beer at some pub) is that it living in Bangkok costs 58% to 75% of what it costs to live in New York without reducing the standard of living. You can compare BKK against the major city of your country and then adjust if you don't live in BKK. Sheesh. And that percentage against the UK is what? #193
curmudgeonly misanthropic nonpat Posted 2009-11-15 20:10:03
Just about everything you listed is imported, sans the companionship mate. Ever have Thai food in Sydney? outrageously expensive. Quite obvious. As living here an insisting on a uttered Farang lifestyle will most definitely be expensive. Generally reflects those whom find it necessary to live beyond their means or intolerant of making adjustments. Seems to me, if one wanted to continue such lifestyles and all the fixes and obsessions of Western goods and convienences, it might be just as easy {and better for you} to reside in said Western society. This twisted comparative logic is not intelligent. #194
Unwanted Member Posted 2009-11-15 20:23:16
You know, folks, the question of the relative cost of living in Thailand (at least, Bangkok) versus major cities around the world has been settled for a long time. A company called Mercer publishes annually a comparison of the costs of the same standard of living for the major cities of the world, which is to say, a basket of goods of comparable quality including rent. On the Mercer survey, the cost of living in New York City is set at an index value of 100. Moscow comes in at 142. Bangkok at 75. That's for 2008. The complete Mercer report costs money, but it is frequently excerpted in the media, for instance, here: http://www.homeinasi.../40/40/lang,th/ There are other measures also based on baskets of goods, such as one by UBS that rates BKK as 58 compared to 100 for New York for 2009, cited here by the BOI: http://www.boi.go.th:8080/issue_content.ph...ueid=56;page=99 So, a reasonable estimation based on a disciplined survey (rather than endlessly citing the cost of a beer at some pub) is that it living in Bangkok costs 58% to 75% of what it costs to live in New York without reducing the standard of living. You can compare BKK against the major city of your country and then adjust if you don't live in BKK. Sheesh. Does all this gibberish include eating Thai street food and a cheap apartment with no Western kitchen or eating and renting the exact same thing in both places? If you live somewhat like a Thai, Thailand would come out much cheaper. #195
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-15 20:58:23
You know, folks, the question of the relative cost of living in Thailand (at least, Bangkok) versus major cities around the world has been settled for a long time. A company called Mercer publishes annually a comparison of the costs of the same standard of living for the major cities of the world, which is to say, a basket of goods of comparable quality including rent. On the Mercer survey, the cost of living in New York City is set at an index value of 100. Moscow comes in at 142. Bangkok at 75. That's for 2008. The complete Mercer report costs money, but it is frequently excerpted in the media, for instance, here: http://www.homeinasi.../40/40/lang,th/ There are other measures also based on baskets of goods, such as one by UBS that rates BKK as 58 compared to 100 for New York for 2009, cited here by the BOI: http://www.boi.go.th:8080/issue_content.ph...ueid=56;page=99 So, a reasonable estimation based on a disciplined survey (rather than endlessly citing the cost of a beer at some pub) is that it living in Bangkok costs 58% to 75% of what it costs to live in New York without reducing the standard of living. You can compare BKK against the major city of your country and then adjust if you don't live in BKK. Sheesh. The comparisons in the survey reflect people in those countries buying similar goods to everyone else in that country. It is obviously more expensive if a western expat here includes in his basket of goods many items that are inported or are provided for farang consumption rather than Thai equivalernts ( which is what is in the Thai basket of ggods). Expats may buy more cheese and steaks than the average Thai for example A Thai in the UK would buy relatively expensive Thai ingredients to cook compared with a UK shopper buying equivalent but British produce. I know a Thai restaurant owner in the UK that used to regularly import or get friends to import ingredients that were overly expensive in the UK These aspects throw out country on country comparisons. #196
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-15 21:53:23
Difficult to compare apples and apples here - if a person were to mirror their lifestyle exactly in both locations then yes, Thailand is less expensive than England. But people don't do that, instead they adapt to their location. For Brits in the UK there is a an opportunity to work on occasion and therefore to increase their income should they wish, that option doesn't exist in Thailand. Similarly, the person who lives in inexpensive accommodation in Pattaya and spends a lot of money on cheap beer is unlikely to have adopt that same lifestyle in the UK I would guess. So the variables in this debate are not only the cost of consumer goods etc but also the changes in lifestyle that take place based on where a person lives. For me personally, I maintain that UK and Thai living costs are broadly very similar. The fact that I don't spend a portion of my income on taxes means that I now spend that money in a different way. So to adapt one must consider: hot water a luxury a microwave a gift from above a fridge the size of a shoe box as normal No clothes dryer as normal No dish washer machine as normal driving a crappy car as normal Forgetting that there is such a thing a central air conditioning etc etc.... Then after all of that adapting..... living life in Thailand is cheap..... and I contend, if I lived the above life style in the states, life would have been very cheap too. The wife and I live on a budget of about 80K a month, and we have no rent no utilitis. Just food, gas, insurance etc. We sock away about 15K USD a year. But that 15K even if I were to spend it rather than save it would not push me up in to the BMW life style I had in the states. All the consumer items you've listed are pretty much standard every day fare in Thailand and easily available - good quality cars and appliances are very much the norm for most expats and indeed, many Thai's also. Yea, that must be why there is a western style kitchen complete with a dish washer on display at our local museum. I get a chuckle when I see the crowds gather around so they can watch it "work." The museum had a plexi glass front placed on the dish washer so people can watch the "miracle machine" spin and spray water. Folks stand around in pure shock and awe for hours. They also have a microwave and an oven in the kitchen. The funny thing is, the museum "claims" that the western style bathroom and kitchen on display represents today's "Thai" life style!!!!!!!!!!!!! Living in denial, seems to be contagious in Thailand. BTW, as I was walking through a 100,000 baht a month rental property yesterday, my wife and I saw the house was equiped witha clothes dryer. My wife was surprised, as was I, because it was the first one I have seen in 4 years. Now lets see, 100,000 Baht rent, in an economy where most people earn 7-12K a month...... Nahhhh Thailand is cheap!!!!!!!!! Yea.... right I never stated that the above items were not available, I questioned if they were affordable in the Thai economy. Something else to consider, when and IF one does find quality goods, one of the reasons it is evensive is because the Thai market can not obtain high volume discounts. Not many people can affor quality, so the shops can only purchase small quantities, equaling higher whole sale prices, it is a big cycle. #197
Advanced Member Posted 2009-11-15 23:57:50
At one time or another, most expats here have come to the same realization as you. The key is assimilating to Thai lifestyle a little more and holding back on this cut & paste method of living the same lifestyle in Thailand as you do, or did, back home. That being said, it doesn't mean you have to start stocking up your fridge with Leo and Seang Som or eating at the noodle vendor next to the parking lot at your office, although that would be a start
 Nor does it mean that you have to give up that nice car and apartment. It just means that you have to start finding alternatives to your previous spending behavior that still make you content.My first few years here I was floating by as an expat thinking that I was assimilated just because I was bilingual and lived here long enough to call myself an expat. But in reality, my spending behaviour was the same as a nonlocalized tourist: shopping at only Foodland and Villa Market, eating dinner at only foreign-food restaurants, drinking and entertainment at the same touristy destinations, buying my clothes at Emporium or Paragon. All I had to do was replace a few nights or the week and a few shopping patterns with Thai alternatives, such as Tesco Lotus for the regular groceries, using a tailor for work clothes instead of brand names at the mall (which actually worked out great), buying my lounge-around-the-house clothes at Tesco, finding a few good street food vendors in the area and resorting to them instead of restaurants and Food By Phone every night, taking the BTS for errands and outings instead of driving the car. And then once a week I just hang out with my Thai buddies at their house and share a few bottles of Leo (never thought I would actually like drinking any Thai beers since I am usually a Scotch-on-the-rocks guy). I have actually been pretty content with those alternatives and I just resort to the more expensive things when I have a specific need or craving. In all, don't give up your old life. Just include a proper balance of old habits with new, Thai habits. You don't have to give up your "class" to save some money around here. I must be saving roughly 30-40k each month by find a simple alternative to the former, San Diegan lifestyle. So hang in there and experiment... you would be suprised what you find! Good luck, ya penny pincher! j/k
#198
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-16 00:09:27
Just came back from AU Bottle of Water $110 Bht 600 mls
LOL 2l Coke 220 Bht Thai Wins #199
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-16 00:19:05
Difficult to compare apples and apples here - if a person were to mirror their lifestyle exactly in both locations then yes, Thailand is less expensive than England. But people don't do that, instead they adapt to their location. For Brits in the UK there is a an opportunity to work on occasion and therefore to increase their income should they wish, that option doesn't exist in Thailand. Similarly, the person who lives in inexpensive accommodation in Pattaya and spends a lot of money on cheap beer is unlikely to have adopt that same lifestyle in the UK I would guess. So the variables in this debate are not only the cost of consumer goods etc but also the changes in lifestyle that take place based on where a person lives. For me personally, I maintain that UK and Thai living costs are broadly very similar. The fact that I don't spend a portion of my income on taxes means that I now spend that money in a different way. So to adapt one must consider: hot water a luxury a microwave a gift from above a fridge the size of a shoe box as normal No clothes dryer as normal No dish washer machine as normal driving a crappy car as normal Forgetting that there is such a thing a central air conditioning etc etc.... Then after all of that adapting..... living life in Thailand is cheap..... and I contend, if I lived the above life style in the states, life would have been very cheap too. The wife and I live on a budget of about 80K a month, and we have no rent no utilitis. Just food, gas, insurance etc. We sock away about 15K USD a year. But that 15K even if I were to spend it rather than save it would not push me up in to the BMW life style I had in the states. All the consumer items you've listed are pretty much standard every day fare in Thailand and easily available - good quality cars and appliances are very much the norm for most expats and indeed, many Thai's also. Yea, that must be why there is a western style kitchen complete with a dish washer on display at our local museum. I get a chuckle when I see the crowds gather around so they can watch it "work." The museum had a plexi glass front placed on the dish washer so people can watch the "miracle machine" spin and spray water. Folks stand around in pure shock and awe for hours. They also have a microwave and an oven in the kitchen. The funny thing is, the museum "claims" that the western style bathroom and kitchen on display represents today's "Thai" life style!!!!!!!!!!!!! Living in denial, seems to be contagious in Thailand. BTW, as I was walking through a 100,000 baht a month rental property yesterday, my wife and I saw the house was equiped witha clothes dryer. My wife was surprised, as was I, because it was the first one I have seen in 4 years. Now lets see, 100,000 Baht rent, in an economy where most people earn 7-12K a month...... Nahhhh Thailand is cheap!!!!!!!!! Yea.... right I never stated that the above items were not available, I questioned if they were affordable in the Thai economy. Something else to consider, when and IF one does find quality goods, one of the reasons it is evensive is because the Thai market can not obtain high volume discounts. Not many people can affor quality, so the shops can only purchase small quantities, equaling higher whole sale prices, it is a big cycle. Good point made #200
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-16 02:03:53
Everyone's neglecting to mention one very important factor, one that could suddenly swing around and bite you hard in the a_ss: currency risk.
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