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[sokal]

britadders28, on 2009-11-15 00:26:54, said:

No thailand is not cheap anymore
I recently was in tesco in england and can get singha beer, a whole chicken, bananas and many other foods cheaper than in thailand and better quality and without the hassle of being ripped off(how can tesco sell tiger and singha at similar prices to 7-11 in thailand.
Yes fuel is cheaper than uk, but what is the average thais daily wage 300baht so you are telling me 10% of a days wage for a litre of petrol cheap?? THe dual pricing also makes things more level with these stupid shop owners doing this all the time. NOW i see more farang in 7-11 and tesco than thai people.

Look at the irony

People actually think that it is more expensive to live in a third world developing nation.

[sokal]

Dakhar, on 2009-11-15 22:53:23, said:

chiang mai, on 2009-11-15 17:49:26, said:

Dakhar, on 2009-11-15 08:48:59, said:

chiang mai, on 2009-11-15 08:12:16, said:

Difficult to compare apples and apples here - if a person were to mirror their lifestyle exactly in both locations then yes, Thailand is less expensive than England. But people don't do that, instead they adapt to their location. For Brits in the UK there is a an opportunity to work on occasion and therefore to increase their income should they wish, that option doesn't exist in Thailand. Similarly, the person who lives in inexpensive accommodation in Pattaya and spends a lot of money on cheap beer is unlikely to have adopt that same lifestyle in the UK I would guess. So the variables in this debate are not only the cost of consumer goods etc but also the changes in lifestyle that take place based on where a person lives. For me personally, I maintain that UK and Thai living costs are broadly very similar. The fact that I don't spend a portion of my income on taxes means that I now spend that money in a different way.

So to adapt one must consider:

hot water a luxury

a microwave a gift from above

a fridge the size of a shoe box as normal

No clothes dryer as normal

No dish washer machine as normal

driving a crappy car as normal

Forgetting that there is such a thing a central air conditioning

etc etc....

Then after all of that adapting..... living life in Thailand is cheap.....

and I contend, if I lived the above life style in the states, life would have been very cheap too.

The wife and I live on a budget of about 80K a month, and we have no rent no utilitis. Just food, gas, insurance etc. We sock away about 15K USD a year. But that 15K even if I were to spend it rather than save it would not push me up in to the BMW life style I had in the states.

All the consumer items you've listed are pretty much standard every day fare in Thailand and easily available - good quality cars and appliances are very much the norm for most expats and indeed, many Thai's also.

Yea, that must be why there is a western style kitchen complete with a dish washer on display at our local museum. I get a chuckle when I see the crowds gather around so they can watch it "work." The museum had a plexi glass front placed on the dish washer so people can watch the "miracle machine" spin and spray water. Folks stand around in pure shock and awe for hours. They also have a microwave and an oven in the kitchen. The funny thing is, the museum "claims" that the western style bathroom and kitchen on display represents today's "Thai" life style!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Living in denial, seems to be contagious in Thailand.

BTW, as I was walking through a 100,000 baht a month rental property yesterday, my wife and I saw the house was equiped witha clothes dryer. My wife was surprised, as was I, because it was the first one I have seen in 4 years. Now lets see, 100,000 Baht rent, in an economy where most people earn 7-12K a month......

Nahhhh Thailand is cheap!!!!!!!!! Yea.... right

I never stated that the above items were not available, I questioned if they were affordable in the Thai economy. Something else to consider, when and IF one does find quality goods, one of the reasons it is evensive is because the Thai market can not obtain high volume discounts. Not many people can affor quality, so the shops can only purchase small quantities, equaling higher whole sale prices, it is a big cycle.

BS, New Zealand aint getting any volume discounts.

Lets review you premise- " It is more expensive to live in a third world developing country "

[Dakhar]

In order to purchase quality goods it certainly is. Other than good cheap fruit and mediocre healthcare if one was to compare quality items Thailand is more expensive. PERIOD

that said a good hotel room is far cheaper here in Thailand

[sokal]

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 06:58:27, said:

In order to purchase quality goods it certainly is. Other than good cheap fruit and mediocre healthcare if one was to compare quality items Thailand is more expensive. PERIOD

that said a good hotel room is far cheaper here in Thailand

Its odd that you mention health care when BKK is becoming a major medical tourism hub mainly for the quality care at a reasonable price.

[Dakhar]

sokal, on 2009-11-16 06:36:49, said:

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 06:58:27, said:

In order to purchase quality goods it certainly is. Other than good cheap fruit and mediocre healthcare if one was to compare quality items Thailand is more expensive. PERIOD

that said a good hotel room is far cheaper here in Thailand

Its odd that you mention health care when BKK is becoming a major medical tourism hub mainly for the quality care at a reasonable price.

I work in the health care field, so I have a "nose" for quality. I know things that go on in the medical arena of Thailand that most would not or do not. Truth is, quality health care in any part of the world is ellusive. One must do a lot of foot work and research to find the right people, locations & facilities. I wish those that come to Thailand or any other country for medical tourism all the best of luck. I would be very cautious to rely on a web site to form my opinions regarding any medical facility at any place in the world.

[Dakhar]

I never stated that the above items were not available, I questioned if they were affordable in the Thai economy. Something else to consider, when and IF one does find quality goods, one of the reasons it is evensive is because the Thai market can not obtain high volume discounts. Not many people can affor quality, so the shops can only purchase small quantities, equaling higher whole sale prices, it is a big cycle.
[/quote]

BS, New Zealand aint getting any volume discounts.

Lets review you premise- " It is more expensive to live in a third world developing country "
[/quote]


BS

Geez, how much manufacturing or whole sale transactions have you been involved in? Obviously very little. For the novice, spend a little time on Alibaba, and you will see the majic word is VOLUME discounts & the painful acronym is MOQ. (Min. order of quantity) If you can not meet their MOQ they will not work with you, so you either are foced to purchase more goods and sit on them, or find/beg a co. to lower their MOQ, as a result they will raise their whole sale prices tremendously. (but you still get your product)

Then you, as a retailer, will turn around and try to off load you more expensive goods to the public. At that time, you have a choice, do so at a hgher price to compensate for lower margins, or just live with lower margins and hope for the best.

Business 101

(Then on top of the higher whole sale costs due to low volume orders, you get to deal with Thai customs, and the taxes sting pretty bad, this cost is also refered to the end user/customer)

Edited by Dakhar, 2009-11-16 07:00:18.

[siggie2]

UP TO YOU

LOL


Sorry for being stereotype but that post was hilarious.

Edited by siggie2, 2009-11-16 07:10:32.

[caf]

sokal, on 2009-11-16 06:36:49, said:

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 06:58:27, said:

In order to purchase quality goods it certainly is. Other than good cheap fruit and mediocre healthcare if one was to compare quality items Thailand is more expensive. PERIOD

that said a good hotel room is far cheaper here in Thailand

Its odd that you mention health care when BKK is becoming a major medical tourism hub mainly for the quality care at a reasonable price.

What's your source for that? Have you checked Malaysia. Think you may be pleasanly surprised re costs and doctor qualifications and hospital conditions.One can olways check things out personally. I would not rely on advertisements and website propaganda personally

Edited by caf, 2009-11-16 08:00:17.

[CaptHaddock]

Ulysses G., on 2009-11-15 21:23:16, said:

Does all this gibberish include eating Thai street food and a cheap apartment with no Western kitchen or eating and renting the exact same thing in both places? If you live somewhat like a Thai, Thailand would come out much cheaper.

What's hard to understand here? Since an apartment in NY would have a Western kitchen, the same standard of living in BKK requires a Western kitchen also. If you live like a Thai, you have lowered your standard of living from that of an American.

[Ulysses G.]

CaptHaddock, on 2009-11-16 10:29:23, said:

Ulysses G., on 2009-11-15 21:23:16, said:

Does all this gibberish include eating Thai street food and a cheap apartment with no Western kitchen or eating and renting the exact same thing in both places? If you live somewhat like a Thai, Thailand would come out much cheaper.

What's hard to understand here? Since an apartment in NY would have a Western kitchen, the same standard of living in BKK requires a Western kitchen also. If you live like a Thai, you have lowered your standard of living from that of an American.

In America, I have to cook at home because food is so expensive. In Thailand I can easily eat out 3 meals a day. I can also hire a maid and have her clean my house and do my laundry. How have I "lowered" my standard of living pray tell?

[wintermute]

Ulysses G., on 2009-11-16 10:36:57, said:

In America, I have to cook at home because food is so expensive. In Thailand I can easily eat out 3 meals a day. I can also hire a maid and have her clean my house and do my laundry. How have I "lowered" my standard of living pray tell?

What he's trying to say is that those cost of living index comparisons are done with goods and services which are close equivalents in both countries. In other words the prices are still lower in Bangkok given the same goods ie. western kitchen, quality food, rent, etc.. The index isn't lowering the standards in Thailand to give it a cost advantage.

There are certainly some things that will be more expensive in BOTH countries but if a person is going to say how much more expensive cheese is in Thailand they also have to consider how much more expensive certain Thai ingredients are in the U.S. It's give or take based on how much of your lifestyle includes imported crap. I really doubt most expats drive a luxury car anyways and i'm sure certain luxury items are excluded because they are completely price dependent on regional markets.

This isn't hard to understand.

Edited by wintermute, 2009-11-16 10:49:46.

[Dakhar]

Maids are cheap, due to labor costs.

What is NOT cheap is quality goods.

[wintermute]

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 10:48:38, said:

Maids are cheap, due to labor costs.

What is NOT cheap is quality goods.

It depends on what you are calling quality. It's true you aren't going to be buying high end speakers or a BMW at a reasonable price in Bangkok compared with let's say San Francisco however you can buy large flat screen tvs, good quality kitchen appliances, glassware, etc.. at a price that's the same or in fact lower than the U.S. I do believe if you average it out that Thailand still comes out on top unless your diet consists solely of imported cheese and steak and you can't live without your BMW M series.

[Dakhar]

I will state that "over all" Thailand is cheaper, but not by large margins.

Before I came to Thailand, I was told I could "live like a king" off of 100K bt etc. Well I contend that I don't know of a King that would be "rolling" in a Nissan Sunny.

Here is the deal, if you just want to live out a relaxed life, live out your retirement years in a great climate with companionship 20 years your juniour and is VERY easy on the eye, Thailand is the place for that or possibly Malaysia for that matter.

But don't be fooled in to thinking that 100K a month is going to provide fun under the sun with un-limited off shore fishing, golfing, land, gorgeous home, nice cars and fine luxury goods etc.


100K is going to let you live "comfortably" without any worries of cash..... that is about it. Which is a lifestyle that around 75k-85K US a year could offer, nothing over the top, but there for some strange reason, always money in your wallet. (a guess, not speaking from experience) I never lived off of 75K, I initially started off at around 40-45K and that was struggle due to school loans etc, and then we moved forward rapidly to 6 fiqures, which provided a nice life style & allowed for building a savings account.

So essentially one has to have 10 Times the average Thai, just to live comfortably. Where in the US 2.5 times the average person will allow for a comfortable life.

[wintermute]

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 11:12:50, said:

So essentially one has to have 10 Times the average Thai, just to live comfortably. Where in the US 2.5 times the average person will allow for a comfortable life.

Your average person's salary in either country has absolutely nothing to do with those cost of living comparisons because the indexes are comparing prices of similar GOODS AND SERVICES in both countries.

If you're a poor desperate farang making a living as a part time english teacher in Thailand of course even the basics might be considered "expensive" in Thailand.

[Pdaz]

wintermute, on 2009-11-15 15:58:27, said:

Pdaz, on 2009-11-15 15:49:06, said:

Often they go un-noticed.. Foodlands ''Took lae Dee'' diner is no longer 'took' their 20 baht coffee now runs to 27 baht (a 30% rise) Milk has also jumped from 30 baht to 39 for the standard 830cl bottle.. (another 30% rise)

Boy a 7 baht increase on a cup of coffee how do you survive in this economic roller coaster? Here's a tip: Freshly ground coffee and a french press. Best investment you can ever make plus the price of decent ground coffee here hasn't gone up much in the past few years that I can tell. Some stalls may charge more in the tourist areas because there are plenty of suckers willing to pay.

The baht amount of the increase wasn't the point... The percentage of the increase was... French Press.. yes I have a couple that I take offshore for a decent coffee.. But at home I have a nice Saeco automatic expresso machine that grinds beans fresh for every cup.. Like you say local arabica beans can be very good and very good value... Luckily I have a friend who brings me beans in bulk from Brazil too...

FYI the economic roller coaster has had very little effect on me... No debts, high salary and plenty of work when I want it... I could live very well on my salary in London, Singapore or pretty much anywhere.. So Thailand is very cheap in comparison for some items.. The others like wine and imported meats I purchase because I enjoy them and wouldn't want to to deprive myself. Even so I like to see value for money and like to shop around for a good price.. Just because I am comfortable off doesn't mean I have to be stupid with my cash or waste it...
Luckily I can enjoy a 30 baht pack of Pad Thai just as much as a well cooked NZ rib eye.. Just depends on my mood.. That to me is one of the better things about Asia.. The sheer variety of produce and eating venues available.. Just like elsewhere you have to search out the places offering the best quality for the best price...

[Dakhar]

wintermute, on 2009-11-16 11:20:29, said:

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 11:12:50, said:

So essentially one has to have 10 Times the average Thai, just to live comfortably. Where in the US 2.5 times the average person will allow for a comfortable life.

Your average person's salary in either country has absolutely nothing to do with those cost of living comparisons because the indexes are comparing prices of similar GOODS AND SERVICES in both countries.

If you're a poor desperate farang making a living as a part time english teacher in Thailand of course even the basics might be considered "expensive" in Thailand.

I am just making an observation of what it takes to afford those cost of goods in order to live a "comfortable" life style. That is all....

I would think the basics are fairly cheap... street food, clothes at the night market... again, if you adopt a dirt cheap life style, life can be cheap.

But it can be cheap with a dirt cheap life style too in the states. My wife and I shoped "GW" (Good Will) while in the states and lived off of a budget of around 24-28K USD a year. Which is essentially identical as what our budget is here.

[wintermute]

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 12:03:31, said:

I am just making an observation of what it takes to afford those cost of goods in order to live a "comfortable" life style. That is all....

Well earning potential and value of time is an entirely different subject altogether. If you're talking about that there's little doubt that earning potential is vastly superior in most developed western nations.

Quote

I would think the basics are fairly cheap... street food, clothes at the night market... again, if you adopt a dirt cheap life style, life can be cheap.

I find just about everything to be the same or cheaper. I don't frequent foreign beer pubs but a night out on the town doing conventional things is certainly cheaper. A night at a very nice movie theater here in Thailand runs 100-140 baht ($3-4.24) in the U.S. it's $7.50-$12. The bill at a decent restaurant serving quality food for two rarely goes over 700-800 baht including drinks. A typical night out at an average sit down restaurant in the U.S. would not be under $40 for two. Name brand clothes can be found at a decent price during the neverending sales at some dept stores like central and there are certain local brands which are quite good which can be found in the malls. If you want to shop for versace or armani clothes then obviously it would be more productive to stock up in Hong Kong on your next holiday.

Quote

My wife and I shoped "GW" (Good Will) while in the states and lived off of a budget of around 24-28K USD a year. Which is essentially identical as what our budget is here.

The only fair comparison would be a metropolitan city in a western country with a similar population size and working demographic. I know for certain that with a budget of 24-28k in a city like San Francisco or San diego you would NOT be able to get by.

Edited by wintermute, 2009-11-16 12:30:07.

[Dpolenz]

Thailand still is very cheap,somedays i find myself spending up to 5 thousand bht a day,on other days i can spend as little as 2hundred bht per day.Depends on what your up to

[gregb]

Services are cheaper in Thailand due to the lower cost of labour. Thus, things like eating in restaurants or hiring a maid or taxi are going to be significantly less here.

Things, on the other hand, are very nearly the same price or even more in Thailand depending on the item.

Most people's budgets are a mixture of the two, but if you are dirt poor, a package of Mama in Thailand at 6 baht or in the Top Ramen noodles in the US at 20 cents are going to set you back the same amount of money. If you are wealthy, hiring a maid, a driver, gardener and personal assistant in Thailand is quite possible, while doing so in the West would require you to be stock broker for Goldman Sacks.

Almost any position can be supported depending on where along the labour/commodity curve you wish to place your budget. Based on my budget, it is a toss up between living here or in the states. The costs are distributed slightly differently (Thailand is much less on housing, much more on the car), but the totals for similar quality of life would be almost identical. I use almost no services. My wife cooks at home. Most of my budget is for things.

So I agree, Thailand is not cheap as a rule. But on the other hand, sometimes Thailand is very cheap.

[zzaa09]

ballzafire, on 2009-11-16 03:03:53, said:

Everyone's neglecting to mention one very important factor, one that could suddenly swing around and bite you hard in the a_ss: currency risk.

It's happened before and it could happen again...

Another important factor. Dependence on credit, existing in debt. Usually unnecessarily.

[Mosha]

My eldest brother and wife have just paid a visir. Their first in 17 years, and the were shocked at how expensive clothes are compared to the UK. I've been telling them for months, some people just don't listen.

However, to compare "foreign" food to what you pay back home, is just plain daft. When in Rome...

Edited by Mosha, 2009-11-16 18:24:28.

[Heng]

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 11:12:50, said:

I will state that "over all" Thailand is cheaper, but not by large margins.

Before I came to Thailand, I was told I could "live like a king" off of 100K bt etc. Well I contend that I don't know of a King that would be "rolling" in a Nissan Sunny.

We recently had a server crash and you might not have gotten the updated memos. The figure is now 850,000k Baht per month, and hopefully you have already paid off any luxury items and properties you might want in cash and not include this in your monthly living expenditures.

We apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused.

[Ulysses G.]

Dakhar, on 2009-11-16 11:12:50, said:

Before I came to Thailand, I was told I could "live like a king" off of 100K bt etc.

I could live like a king on that in Thailand easily.

[MilkyWhite]

The one thing to remember is that the vast majority of the farang community does not have to pay to get girls here, nor did they or do they have to pay in their home countries now. My friend is an oil rigger, mid-forties, and he practically has to keep a stick with him in the UK to fight off the school girls. They just love that white beard and dirt under the finger nails look that he pulls off so well and I guess his chiseled upper body and wisdom acquired from all those years out in the sea helps too.

The farang that live in Thailand, do so for a variety of reasons, but only the smallest percentage of them are here for the cheap cost of women. Primarily, they are here for the Buddhist temples and architecture, bird and insect watching, the wonderful climate and beaches, and most of all, to build healthy and productive relationships and friendships with the Thai people and to embrace their culture to the fullest extent possible. I think its time that we finally shrug off this propaganda once and for all that all of these intelligent, interesting, gentle farang which call Thailand home (scientists, former Ministers, race car drivers, noble prize physicists (to name a few) are some sort of social misfits who can only get it by paying and are not productive members of society. Please remember, these types of lies perpetrated by the media and members of this forum can only damage our reputations in the eyes of our gracious hosts.