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[jfchandler]

A few of us have been having an interesting discussion on one of the banking threads about where we keep our discretionary resources.... back in our home countries.....or .... deciding to import them here into Thailand where we're living.

I'm not talking about the salaries of those who work here, which of course start out and probably remain here... I'm talking about whatever financial assets and resources you had tucked away before you moved to Thailand.... And assets of the type like cash and other things where you had the ability to choose to keep them back in your home country, or bring them in one way or another to Thailand.

For me personally, I choose to keep about 98% of my available assets back in the U.S. Why?? For all of its failures, at least the U.S. has some pretty substantial rule of law.... There are civil courts, and people who abuse or break the law can be sued and real damages can be recovered--if some financial crime or failure has occurred. And there is the FDIC, which insures bank deposits and has a track record, unbroken to the best of my knowledge, of honoring its obligations. And at least, back in the U.S., I know I'm not a second-class citizen... I can access the political process if aggrieved. There are consumer protection laws, and government agencies that do a decent job of enforcing them, eventually and sometimes, especially if prodded.

Here in Thailand, while I don't mind keeping some small spending money in Thai banks, I certainly don't trust them, nor the Thai government's supposed deposit insurance scheme, to protect any sizable amount of assets. And even if they did or could, perhaps they would do so effectively for Thai people, or Thai people with some clout. But for a farang living in Thailand, good luck. And good luck seeking any recourse or compensation from the government or the police. And good luck pursuing any kind of civil claim in the courts, as if such a legitimate process process really existed here for farangs. And as for the Thai stock market, don't even get me started.

And then, of course, there's the whole arena of what happens if you get married with all or a lot of your assets here, and then somewhere down the line you get divorced...or you find out your loving wife isn't quite what you thought she was...and you've got to separate and divorce in some kind of bad situation. And on and on and on....

Don't get me wrong... I choose to live here, I like living here, and I hope I can spend the rest of my life here. But I certainly don't want to bet my financial future on the banking/financial/government system that exists in Thailand as things stand now, and particularly as it relates to farangs' ability to operate in that world.

Some folks in the other thread agree with me. But others think keeping more of the resources in Thailand will be a good move in the long run, with the current trends in currency exchange and the state of the U.S. dollar. But rather than getting into esoteric discussions about economics, lets talk about the real world.

Just how much faith do you have in Thailand. Are you willing to bet your financial life on it???

[awd]

I don't keep all my eggs in one basket.
I wouldn't bet everything on Thailand, nor would I bet against it.
I've enjoyed everything I've invested thus far in Thailand and made more money here on investments than at home; nonetheless I keep most of my wealth in my home country.
Over time, it seems the less money I invest in Thailand, the more I enjoy it. Come to think of it, it's the same at home!
Keeping life simple in an age of complexity is a challenge.

[johng]

I'm keeping my nest egg in my home country.

Quote

But I certainly don't want to bet my financial future on the banking/financial/government system that exists in Thailand as things stand now, and particularly as it relates to farangs' ability to operate in that world.

agree with the above 100 %

Never "invest" in Thailand more than you are prepared to walk away from !!!

[sangfroid]

johng, on 2009-11-06 17:12:24, said:

I'm keeping my nest egg in my home country.

Quote

But I certainly don't want to bet my financial future on the banking/financial/government system that exists in Thailand as things stand now, and particularly as it relates to farangs' ability to operate in that world.

agree with the above 100 %

Never "invest" in Thailand more than you are prepared to walk away from !!!

Exactamundo....I also only keep pocket money in my Thai bank a/c My motto is "Only invest enough money in Thailand that if you lose it you won't miss it".

[OriginalPoster]

sangfroid, on 2009-11-06 18:48:25, said:

johng, on 2009-11-06 17:12:24, said:

I'm keeping my nest egg in my home country.

Quote

But I certainly don't want to bet my financial future on the banking/financial/government system that exists in Thailand as things stand now, and particularly as it relates to farangs' ability to operate in that world.

agree with the above 100 %

Never "invest" in Thailand more than you are prepared to walk away from !!!

Exactamundo....I also only keep pocket money in my Thai bank a/c My motto is "Only invest enough money in Thailand that if you lose it you won't miss it".

I can understand that sentiment in the context of Thailand, but if one does that and plans to be in the country for a long time (perhaps permanently), how would you hedge your currency exchange rate risk?

[pkrv]

Hi jfchandler. I think it is important to know what angle people are coming from on this.

I am going to take a stab that you are a Farang/Thai partnership so my answers may be totally inappropriate.

We are a Farang/Farang partnership.

From our UK based perspective it would have cost us 50% more to buy our condo in FX terms alone than what we paid back in 2005. So basically UK expats will have taken a 50% hit in income if their resources were UK based.

For me it it is a question of ballance, resources in both home country and Thailand. Juggle them as needed - but this is a mechanical answer.

Just as an example and I may be way out of line here. In the UK marrage laws say assets are 50/50 I think the same is true in Thailand. That is what partnership is about.

Purely from FX exposure my answer is both.

[trogers]

Half in Thailand and the other half in my home country. Most in the form of real estate for leasing.

[JetsetBkk]

Less than 5% in Thailand - what I spend during the year - and the rest spread around in dollars, pounds and Euros.

Wish I'd bought some gold though.

[alfieconn]

OriginalPoster, on 2009-11-06 17:56:14, said:

sangfroid, on 2009-11-06 18:48:25, said:

johng, on 2009-11-06 17:12:24, said:

I'm keeping my nest egg in my home country.

Quote

But I certainly don't want to bet my financial future on the banking/financial/government system that exists in Thailand as things stand now, and particularly as it relates to farangs' ability to operate in that world.

agree with the above 100 %

Never "invest" in Thailand more than you are prepared to walk away from !!!

Exactamundo....I also only keep pocket money in my Thai bank a/c My motto is "Only invest enough money in Thailand that if you lose it you won't miss it".

I can understand that sentiment in the context of Thailand, but if one does that and plans to be in the country for a long time (perhaps permanently), how would you hedge your currency exchange rate risk?

You can hedge by taking out a Forward contract but i'm not sure if you would want to do this with the rate as it is at the moment.

[OriginalPoster]

alfieconn, on 2009-11-06 20:03:49, said:

OriginalPoster, on 2009-11-06 17:56:14, said:

sangfroid, on 2009-11-06 18:48:25, said:

johng, on 2009-11-06 17:12:24, said:

I'm keeping my nest egg in my home country.


agree with the above 100 %

Never "invest" in Thailand more than you are prepared to walk away from !!!

Exactamundo....I also only keep pocket money in my Thai bank a/c My motto is "Only invest enough money in Thailand that if you lose it you won't miss it".

I can understand that sentiment in the context of Thailand, but if one does that and plans to be in the country for a long time (perhaps permanently), how would you hedge your currency exchange rate risk?

You can hedge by taking out a Forward contract but i'm not sure if you would want to do this with the rate as it is at the moment.

So is that what you do instead of bringing money into Thailand? Somehow I doubt that many amongst the the legions of expats in Thailand who advise ''don't take more to Thailand than you can afford to lose'' are buying Forward Contracts on the Baht.

[pkrv]

The Op is not interested in the complex answer, he has asked for real world answers.

The 5 year rate for USDTHB= is here

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDTHB=...m&q=l&c=

Basically he sees a down wood trend. He is now taking a hit.

Banks here are safe they are not vunerable to what is happening elsewhere. He only has to take a look at Farangs trying to open an account, and I was one of them, to understand the measures in place.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Opening-Bank...nd-t260738.html

It is annoying I cannot find a great comment by chiang mai - it was along the lines of - you need to develop a strategy for your home currency - your home currency is the one you spend every day not the one you feel is stronger. Most UK people would have found this difficult and have probably suffered - The same is probably becoming true of those who are US based.

But IMO he has time to act - however I have no interest in USD so do not follow this instrument.

Edited by pkrv, 2009-11-06 19:32:20.

[ESB7]

In SCB today and they have a fixed term account...6 months-3 years..starts at a miserly 0.75% for 6 months but rises to a reasonable 4.5% 3 year term. Asked and was assured it is open to foreigners, just need to show passport with a valid visa. The offer finished 31st October however there is limited availability at the discretion of the branch manager...4.5% net aint bad for 3 years...thats equivelant to just under 6% gross in the U.K which you cant get at the moment..

[marshbags]

Home as in the U.K.

One nice thing at present is the worth of my 800K I,ve kept in the bank for some time now for my retirement visa renewals.

Exchange rate was 74 baht to the pound then and now it,s 54...........ish

marshbags

[pkrv]

marshbags, on 2009-11-06 12:36:22, said:

Home as in the U.K.

One nice thing at present is the worth of my 800K I,ve kept in the bank for some time now for my retirement visa renewals.

Exchange rate was 74 baht to the pound then and now it,s 54...........ish

marshbags

Correct - PKRV

[jfchandler]

Thanks for the posts... PKRV...

I'm retired here... no business dealings for me... And my relationship is with a Thai, though not legally married yet...

I'm certainly aware of the currency issues... But right now,, I've lived here two years... Financial stability, security and earning growth (interest rates) are the principal things on my mind... not the exchange rates...

I think I'll probably think about that more as time passes...and may take some steps to deal with those issues... But, I absolutely don't trust the Thai financial/legal/government infrastructure here... Really wouldn't want to rest my financial future on anything dependent on that...

[jbaldwin]

ESB7, on 2009-11-06 12:26:26, said:

In SCB today and they have a fixed term account...6 months-3 years..starts at a miserly 0.75% for 6 months but rises to a reasonable 4.5% 3 year term. Asked and was assured it is open to foreigners, just need to show passport with a valid visa. The offer finished 31st October however there is limited availability at the discretion of the branch manager...4.5% net aint bad for 3 years...thats equivelant to just under 6% gross in the U.K which you cant get at the moment..

I think that you have misunderstood the SCB product. It does not offer a rate of 4.5% over three years. It offers interest that increases during the 3 year term. You get 0.75% in the first six months and you only get the 4.5% for the last six months of the term. The average rate during the three year term is about 2.1%

[jfchandler]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's also the issue of the Thai government's mandatory tax withholding on interest earnings... what is it??? 15% or more???

And... sorry... but... I don't think SCB's deal is 4.5% net over 3 years... It's a gradually stepping up rate that may end up at 4.5% for the final period. You'd have to tell me and us... when you average out all the different rates over the 3 year term, what the cumulative APY earning is... prior to the government taking their cut.

ESB7, on 2009-11-06 19:26:26, said:

In SCB today and they have a fixed term account...6 months-3 years..starts at a miserly 0.75% for 6 months but rises to a reasonable 4.5% 3 year term. Asked and was assured it is open to foreigners, just need to show passport with a valid visa. The offer finished 31st October however there is limited availability at the discretion of the branch manager...4.5% net aint bad for 3 years...thats equivelant to just under 6% gross in the U.K which you cant get at the moment..

[jfchandler]

For those who may be interested, here's the other TV thread (nominally on Thai bank ATM fees) where we got off track on the subject that I shifted to here -- where do and should people keep their resources, back in their home country or LOS...

The posts on this subject in the other thread certainly make for interesting reading...for those so inclined...

[chiang mai]

So many people coming on with the same old line of, "only invest in Thailand what you can afford to lose". Well matey's I've got news for you, if you'd invested all your money in Thailand a year ago, even if you had simply exchanged it into Baht and left it sit in a paltry savings account, you'd be substantially wealthier than you are at present, if you're a Brit you would be some 30% richer. So please, give us all a break with that line!

[jfchandler]

Sorry, that may apply to Brits because of the recent movement of the pound vs. the baht...

But the dollar, while it's down relative to the baht, is only down a bit over the past year... was 34 per... now 33+ per... Hardly a dramatic change...

When I first came to Thailand maybe 7 years ago, yes, the baht was maybe 37 or 38 per... But that didn't last long, and it sure hasn't been that for a long time... And at times in the past, I gather, it was down to 25 or something like that...

So I don't think most U.S. $ denominated folks are crying in their milk too much...

[pkrv]

jfchandler, on 2009-11-06 13:01:58, said:

For those who may be interested, here's the other TV thread (nominally on Thai bank ATM fees) where we got off track on the subject that I shifted to here -- where do and should people keep their resources, back in their home country or LOS...

The posts on this subject in the other thread certainly make for interesting reading...for those so inclined...

I did look at the link you provided - It will probably not surprise you to know that my attention instantly gravitated towards donx and fletchsmile responses with which I completely and utterly agreed.

Small amounts of cash coming over = big charges. Both of these astute guys have noted that. donx is open on this forum he is still US based, much in the same way as I am UK based. I have fiddled around this issue in the past but that was for petty spending money (utilitiy bills), and using the UK Nationwide route did this free of charge at the true market rate, at the time.

IMO you really really need to work out if your US returns vs the USDTHB= exchange rate, which usually includes a hidden fee, and transfer fees, and exchange rate, is worth while. Or just get on with it and take a leap of faith!

Edited by pkrv, 2009-11-06 21:11:21.

[SurfRider]

.
"Well matey's I've got news for you, if you'd invested all your money in Thailand a year ago . . . you'd be substantially wealthier than you are at present,"

I wasn't going to bother cross-posting from the other thread and risk throwing fuel on the fire of the "Invest all your money in Thailand" gang, but there is another side of the proverbial coin that might be worth knowing about . . .

The Asian Financial Crisis was a period of financial crisis that gripped much of Asia beginning in July 1997, and raised fears of a worldwide economic meltdown due to financial contagion. The crisis started in Thailand with the financial collapse of the Thai baht . . .

Thailand's booming economy came to a halt amid massive layoffs in finance, real estate, and construction that resulted in huge numbers of workers returning to their villages in the countryside and 600,000 foreign workers being sent back to their home countries. The baht devalued swiftly and lost more than half of its value. The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the US dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.

http://en.wikipedia....inancial_Crisis
.

[loverboy44]

Well, first it simply depends on where you come from.
I think, correct me if i am wrong, US Citzens have to pay tax on their income whereever they are living.
A German for example or a Dutch, when he/she cancels their stay in Germany, move to Thailand, has no assets in Germany any more, are tax free. So in this case, bring your assets to a non EU country.

[pkrv]

SurfRider, on 2009-11-06 14:07:50, said:

.
"Well matey's I've got news for you, if you'd invested all your money in Thailand a year ago . . . you'd be substantially wealthier than you are at present,"

I wasn't going to bother cross-posting from the other thread and risk throwing fuel on the fire of the "Invest all your money in Thailand" gang, but there is another side of the proverbial coin that might be worth knowing about . . .

The Asian Financial Crisis was a period of financial crisis that gripped much of Asia beginning in July 1997, and raised fears of a worldwide economic meltdown due to financial contagion. The crisis started in Thailand with the financial collapse of the Thai baht . . .

Thailand's booming economy came to a halt amid massive layoffs in finance, real estate, and construction that resulted in huge numbers of workers returning to their villages in the countryside and 600,000 foreign workers being sent back to their home countries. The baht devalued swiftly and lost more than half of its value. The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the US dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.

http://en.wikipedia....inancial_Crisis
.

There was also a tulip bulb crisis in Europe

Come on guys we are not headless chickens

Edited by pkrv, 2009-11-06 21:43:52.

[chiang mai]

SurfRider, on 2009-11-06 21:07:50, said:

.
"Well matey's I've got news for you, if you'd invested all your money in Thailand a year ago . . . you'd be substantially wealthier than you are at present,"

I wasn't going to bother cross-posting from the other thread and risk throwing fuel on the fire of the "Invest all your money in Thailand" gang, but there is another side of the proverbial coin that might be worth knowing about . . .

The Asian Financial Crisis was a period of financial crisis that gripped much of Asia beginning in July 1997, and raised fears of a worldwide economic meltdown due to financial contagion. The crisis started in Thailand with the financial collapse of the Thai baht . . .

Thailand's booming economy came to a halt amid massive layoffs in finance, real estate, and construction that resulted in huge numbers of workers returning to their villages in the countryside and 600,000 foreign workers being sent back to their home countries. The baht devalued swiftly and lost more than half of its value. The baht reached its lowest point of 56 units to the US dollar in January 1998. The Thai stock market dropped 75%. Finance One, the largest Thai finance company until then, collapsed.

http://en.wikipedia....inancial_Crisis
.

Yes, I was here through all of that, your point however is ?