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[Jingthing]

I was reading a review about an Isaan restaurant in Samui where the owner was basically bragging that they take care of farang customers by cutting down the chiles (more "soft") and adding more sour taste. The strong implication was that they do this without any special request by the customer. In other word, as an automatic response to a farang customer.

How do you feel about this practice (which in my experience is very, very common)?

I have even found I often don't get the real deal food even when I clearly ask for it in Thai (adds fish sauce to the wound).

The irony of this practice is that I truly believe this is done to help us out and I have no doubt it does help many of us out. However, I find it offensive for assumptions to be made about my food tastes based on being a farang only. In other words, while trying to help us out, for many of us, we are actually being cheated, not giving us the food we ordered and are expected to pay for.

Here is the link to review that inspired this thread. However, I am not singling out any one restaurant, as most of us know, this practice is very widespread:

http://news.samuiexpress.net/dining/319-fi...isaan-food.html

If you don't think this is a real issue, consider this scenario. A Thai in America goes to a pizza parlor. The waiter has traveled extensively in Thailand and has noticed that many Thais love pizza smothered in sweet ketchup. So without asking, he serves the pizza smothered in ketchup and sprinkled with sugar just because the customer is Thai. Yummy!

Edited by Jingthing, 2009-11-10 15:04:41.

[IanForbes]

I didn't know they did change it. If something is too hot for my taste then I only eat a little bit and learn what not to order. I have pretty simple tastes in Thai food anyways. I can eat the real hot stuff, but choose not to. It's like my choice in not eating bugs. I've tried them, but prefer not to indulge.

[bkkjames]

NO! Just because they put ketchup on pizza doesn't mean I want Tom Yum khun with sugar!

[PeaceBlondie]

I tried Thai food. Hated it. Still do.

[neverdie]

I come out swinging if they do it, I surprise alot of thais with how hot i eat, occassionally I get my head blown off tho ..... luv it.

[mrtoad]

I now always take a Poll before I have a meal.

[surayu]

Some of the local "delicacies" are simply not for human consuption because of the chilly, also the rotten fish sauce/paste is something i am glad i can stay away from, so i am glad someone taked care of this, what i don't like is the way someone might "thaitize" tipycal farang traditional recipes


Edit: wow i have just been taken to the results page, it's seems to be only one vote about in favour of it, i am wondering from whom so can you all really manage to eat as it served?? it must be something wrong with my palate...

Edited by surayu, 2009-11-10 16:28:32.

[mrtoad]

neverdie, on 2009-11-10 16:21:45, said:

occassionally I get my head blown off tho ..... luv it.

We are talking about restaurants sir, not certain smoking bars.

[bkkjames]

Btw, Discovery or NGC had a programme on the other night about Thailand, and part of it was this lady making pla la or however it is spelled.

I thought it was disgusting before seeing how it was made.

[JUDAS]

This is actually one of my minor gripes here. It only tends to be in restaurants that I frequent regularly that I get exactly what I order, spice wise. Quite often if I'm ordering a "new" restaurant the waitress will look to my wife for confirmation that I can actually eat "thai style"

Slightly off topic but I've noticed a big variation in the way dishes of the same name are prepared and served.

[sbk]

I don't order stuff I don't like. Don't go for innards or rotten food, but I do like my food nice and spicy.

I usually get it to my taste when I order. Something about the accent does it.

[bkkjames]

sbk, on 2009-11-10 16:33:22, said:

I don't order stuff I don't like. Don't go for innards or rotten food, but I do like my food nice and spicy.

I usually get it to my taste when I order. Something about the accent does it.

Your American accent helps to order spicy food?

[neverdie]

sbk, on 2009-11-10 16:33:22, said:

I don't order stuff I don't like. Don't go for innards or rotten food, but I do like my food nice and spicy.

I usually get it to my taste when I order. Something about the accent does it.

eye dont get it sbk, your meaning to tell me that your greek lebanese itallian english accent gets you great thai food ??

[PNGinBKK]

I recently stayed at a resort on Koh Phi Phi and was told in no uncertain terms by the GM that if I wanted "authentic" Thai food I should visit the restaurant down the beach as his staff were following the instructions of the BRITISH head chef who didn't know how to cook most things Thai....

I find that taking the missus helps a great deal when ordering food as she is quick to jump to my defense when the staff ask if I want Thai food to taste Thai-Thai or Farang-Thai..

Living with Thai's (in-laws etc) I find my tastes have developed significantly over the years, but I still won't touch Gra-pee, (Crappy!), Palaaaa (bleurgh!) or any of the other rotting fish/meat juice that they seem to eat with great gusto... unless I am feeling like I need an enema.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm difficult question. If it's Issan food, and ESPECIALLY if there are Isan-ites present, then Farangatizing it would be perceived as a declaration of war.

However, a lot of Thai food, especially Central Thai food, doesn't really need to be ridiculously spicy if all the flavors are there. And there are right ways to do it, and wrong ways.

Case in point: If you make a curry (say green curry, phanaeng whatever) then you start with a curry paste. Standard curry paste is typically very spicy. The short cut to tone down hear is to use less of the curry paste, which leads directly to a reduction in taste. However the really good restaurants will make their own curry paste, and make it such that only the chilli's are reduced (or changed partly to milder varieties) while keeping all the other herbs and spices. Then you get to a dish that can honestly be world class, without being nuclear in impact.

But, yeah, a sweet som tam without chilli that should carry a sentence of beheading for 7 generations.

[neverdie]

mrtoad, on 2009-11-10 16:23:05, said:

neverdie, on 2009-11-10 16:21:45, said:

occassionally I get my head blown off tho ..... luv it.

We are talking about restaurants sir, not certain smoking bars.

[sbk]

bkkjames, on 2009-11-10 16:34:58, said:

sbk, on 2009-11-10 16:33:22, said:

I don't order stuff I don't like. Don't go for innards or rotten food, but I do like my food nice and spicy.

I usually get it to my taste when I order. Something about the accent does it.

Your American accent helps to order spicy food?

neverdie, on 2009-11-10 16:35:55, said:

sbk, on 2009-11-10 16:33:22, said:

I don't order stuff I don't like. Don't go for innards or rotten food, but I do like my food nice and spicy.

I usually get it to my taste when I order. Something about the accent does it.

eye dont get it sbk, your meaning to tell me that your greek lebanese itallian english accent gets you great thai food ??

Um, yeah. Thats it.

[neverdie]

^but u led with the chin

[Mosha]

Well there is Farangatize, and Farangatize. If my wife can make a Thai meal that doesn't burn my guts out, and still taste good. Why can't the restaurants. On a trip up to Bangkok, we stopped at a beach near Hua Hin. The food was crap and expensive.

[Kitsch22]

I am afraid that this is a whinge for the sake of whingeing if ever I saw one. You are complaining because a subset of restaurant owners in Thailand makes an attempt to cater to the tastes of their target clientele. There is no "irony" here; it is purely a matter of commercial common sense. At a guess I would say that the average proprietor would not give a hoot about the few unusual Western customers desiring a culinary style which, if adopted generally by the establishment, would have the mainstream farang holidaymakers staying away in droves.

Do you really want all your meat on the bone and without the gristle and integument removed, pepped up with a sprinkling of mixed offal?

As an expat, you should have no trouble in avoiding tourist restaurants if you want to avoid tourist restaurants. Or just tell them what you really want when ordering. Even if you find yourself in a location with which you are not personally familiar, just check the menu; if it is all in Thai script with no trace of English then you can be pretty sure that you will get authentic Thai food and that the sighting your big farang nose will not result in automatic bowdlerisation.

As to your strawman analogy of a pizza parlour in the States, I would say: "First show me an American pizza parlour that has its menu written in Thai as well as English."

[mahtin]

The wife orders. I can't handle 15 chilis in my somtam like she does.

[mrtoad]

Kitsch22, on 2009-11-10 17:34:44, said:

I am afraid that this is a whinge for the sake of whingeing if ever I saw one. You are complaining because a subset of restaurant owners in Thailand makes an attempt to cater to the tastes of their target clientele. There is no "irony" here; it is purely a matter of commercial common sense. At a guess I would say that the average proprietor would not give a hoot about the few unusual Western customers desiring a culinary style which, if adopted generally by the establishment, would have the mainstream farang holidaymakers staying away in droves.

Do you really want all your meat on the bone and without the gristle and integument removed, pepped up with a sprinkling of mixed offal?

As an expat, you should have no trouble in avoiding tourist restaurants if you want to avoid tourist restaurants. Or just tell them what you really want when ordering. Even if you find yourself in a location with which you are not personally familiar, just check the menu; if it is all in Thai script with no trace of English then you can be pretty sure that you will get authentic Thai food and that the sighting your big farang nose will not result in automatic bowdlerisation.

As to your strawman analogy of a pizza parlour in the States, I would say: "First show me an American pizza parlour that has its menu written in Thai as well as English."

You forgot one crucial sentence....

"If you don't like it, go home."

[Jingthing]

Quote

I am afraid that this is a whinge for the sake of whingeing if ever I saw one.

I don't appreciate personal attacks from posters just because they don't approve of the topic and think the Thais are always right, and complaining foreigners are always wrong. It just ain't so. This is a forum mostly for non-Thais, if we can't talk about topics like this without being dissed by the Thai-ier than Thai police, where can we?

Back on topic: many times I have ordered at local type restaurants, ordered in Thai, and overheard the waiter tell the cook FARANG to make sure the cook knows to cook the food for the farang style I can only assume. I do find I can "train" restaurants that I am serious about not getting toned down food, but this usually takes repeat visits. Commonly the first time is toned down even when I explicitly ask them not to do that. Then I complain, and the typical response is NEXT TIME. Usually the next time or later they get it right. That's great but personally I love to try out new places all the time.

Edited by Jingthing, 2009-11-10 17:58:21.

[Lovedog100]

This piss's me off to no end. I like spicy food, I usually pick spicy food that is clearly marked as spicy on the menu, Almost always it comes not spicy. I've tried telling them that I like spicy, that in English the menu says spicy. Most just say OK, then the food arrives bland. Some will tell me that Farang can't eat spicy, not make spicy. I get up and walk on those now. I've tried dealing with it several ways. Complaining don't work because they will just say "stupid farang, not know farang can not eat spicy". Usually I'll send it back saying that it isn't what I ordered. They will bring me the menu and show me, at that point I point out that it say in English "spicy soup" and this not spicy soup. Typically they will take it back and the cook will throw a few chilies on top, witch isn't the same as being cooked with the chilies in it. When I pay the bill, I'll tell the woman to tell the cook I not leave tip because the spicy salad, not spicy. I know it's the waitress that wrote "farang" on the ticket, blaming it on the cook does not make her lose face. I'm usually remembered after that and get what I order the next time.

Now I have something that works great. My Thai girlfriend doesn't like spicy food. We will look at the menu, then send the waitress to get us drinks, so that they won't hear our plan. I tell the girlfriend what I want, she then orders it for herself, and then tells them that I want what she is going to order. When the food arrives, we switch plates. The waitress usually frerks out when she sees that. I've even had them try to take the plate back saying it's to spicy for me. We are both happy that way. If we don't trick them, the girlfriend will get food that is to hot for her to eat, and I am unhappy with my dish. Dealing with Thai's is hard sometimes. They have some preconceived ideas that they just won't let loose of.

[Jingthing]

I also agree if you order the food hot and it is completely bland, absolutely send it back. I hope that sends a message. I have definitely done that. However, I will not send it back if it has decent spice but not spicy enough for my taste as that is a little more subjective.