ClaireAnne
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Posted 2009-11-12 16:06:24
Hello Marvo, and once again, WELCOME TO THAILAND! 
I thought I'd add my 2 cents... I recently moved here. I had bought an electric piano ages ago in my former place of residence, and when it shipped here, I received a notice saying I had to pay 6000 B in duties! When I visited the post office to see what was up, they informed me that the value was 20,000B and that that price was the cost of duties.
They even charged me for the stand, which came FREE with the piano. And overall, because it was an old model, I had paid only about 5000 B for it! Ridiculous!
They sent back the piano to "renegotiate" the cost. In the end I still paid 1500 B for a personal, old item!
Posted 2009-11-12 17:00:24
Many thanks to everyone on this interesting topic. It will be seen that this is my first posting and at 63yrs of age maybe my mental faculties are failing me (in fact I'm sure they are!!).
Can anyone please advise me? I am returning to Thailand in late January 2010 with my Thai wife of two years - I have visited Thailand half a dozen times for brief holidays and the last occasion being for 14 months following retirement. We have been holidaying in the UK since September 2009. I will be returning on a non-immigrant 'O' multiple entry visa. It is my intention to buy a house in Thailand and remain there, but as I cannot afford a house and the fees for a retirement visa then I understand I will have to return to UK every 15 months for another non-immigrant 'O' visa.
When we return in January 2010 I was intending to have my personal items shipped out about the time we leave the UK. There should be about 5 cubic metres of boxes which contain books, clothing, model railway items, computer peripherals, photographs and a cheap set of 20yrs old golf clubs.
My questions are:
(1) should I ship the items in my wife's name?
(2) do my above circumstances, if only on paper, indicate that I would not be eligible to pay any form of import duties?
(3) does it seem likely that I will be 'scammed' by requests to pay duty.
(4) if (3) applies then will I be better off seeking legal advice in Thailand when that problem arises or simply visiting the Customs office in Bangkok and taking it from there?
Any information/help will be greatly appreciated as I'm getting too old to be faced with beaurocratic hassle and confrontation. If the Thai law says I have to pay then so be it.
Many thanks to all on this site.
Posted 2009-11-13 05:13:19
 Marvo, on 2009-11-12 04:26:37, said:
As for handing over an envelope full of cash to a stranger, purely to satisfy their extorting greed... it may be a satisfactory course of action for some here, but as far I'm concerned...
They can stick it up their arrrrrse!
Let the games begin. I've given my shipper's one last chance to sort it before I have to haul my ass up to Bangers tomorrow to do their job for them. Maybe I'll send them an invoice for my time and work. I'll report back and update of course  .
Now just so we get this straight, you're going to absolutely refuse to let any cash change hands and if it comes up you are going to actually tell them to "stick it up their arrrrrse!" And also, if your shipping company doesn't get it done the way you like, you are going to invoice them? And, you are going to honestly tell us about the exchange on all sides?
Posted 2009-11-13 07:40:33
chris1101, on 2009-11-12 17:00:24, said: Many thanks to everyone on this interesting topic. It will be seen that this is my first posting and at 63yrs of age maybe my mental faculties are failing me (in fact I'm sure they are!!).
Can anyone please advise me? I am returning to Thailand in late January 2010 with my Thai wife of two years - I have visited Thailand half a dozen times for brief holidays and the last occasion being for 14 months following retirement. We have been holidaying in the UK since September 2009. I will be returning on a non-immigrant 'O' multiple entry visa. It is my intention to buy a house in Thailand and remain there, but as I cannot afford a house and the fees for a retirement visa then I understand I will have to return to UK every 15 months for another non-immigrant 'O' visa.
When we return in January 2010 I was intending to have my personal items shipped out about the time we leave the UK. There should be about 5 cubic metres of boxes which contain books, clothing, model railway items, computer peripherals, photographs and a cheap set of 20yrs old golf clubs.
My questions are:
(1) should I ship the items in my wife's name?
(2) do my above circumstances, if only on paper, indicate that I would not be eligible to pay any form of import duties?
(3) does it seem likely that I will be 'scammed' by requests to pay duty.
(4) if (3) applies then will I be better off seeking legal advice in Thailand when that problem arises or simply visiting the Customs office in Bangkok and taking it from there?
Any information/help will be greatly appreciated as I'm getting too old to be faced with beaurocratic hassle and confrontation. If the Thai law says I have to pay then so be it.
Many thanks to all on this site.
Hire a reputable agent, such as Asian Tigers/KC Dat, to do the move. Put it in your wife's name as she is eligible for a duty free import as a returning Thai national. Non-Imm "O" are not eligible for duty free import.
Despite the stories here, from personal experience, both on a Non-imm "B" and my wife as returning Thai national, we have not had any problems. If you read the thread carefully, you can see that the problems are due to people not either getting a good agent or ignorance of the rules and procedures.
TH
Posted 2009-11-13 07:46:35
thaihome, on 2009-11-13 07:40:33, said: chris1101, on 2009-11-12 17:00:24, said: Many thanks to everyone on this interesting topic. It will be seen that this is my first posting and at 63yrs of age maybe my mental faculties are failing me (in fact I'm sure they are!!).
Can anyone please advise me? I am returning to Thailand in late January 2010 with my Thai wife of two years - I have visited Thailand half a dozen times for brief holidays and the last occasion being for 14 months following retirement. We have been holidaying in the UK since September 2009. I will be returning on a non-immigrant 'O' multiple entry visa. It is my intention to buy a house in Thailand and remain there, but as I cannot afford a house and the fees for a retirement visa then I understand I will have to return to UK every 15 months for another non-immigrant 'O' visa.
When we return in January 2010 I was intending to have my personal items shipped out about the time we leave the UK. There should be about 5 cubic metres of boxes which contain books, clothing, model railway items, computer peripherals, photographs and a cheap set of 20yrs old golf clubs.
My questions are:
(1) should I ship the items in my wife's name?
(2) do my above circumstances, if only on paper, indicate that I would not be eligible to pay any form of import duties?
(3) does it seem likely that I will be 'scammed' by requests to pay duty.
(4) if (3) applies then will I be better off seeking legal advice in Thailand when that problem arises or simply visiting the Customs office in Bangkok and taking it from there?
Any information/help will be greatly appreciated as I'm getting too old to be faced with beaurocratic hassle and confrontation. If the Thai law says I have to pay then so be it.
Many thanks to all on this site.
Hire a reputable agent, such as Asian Tigers/KC Dat, to do the move. Put it in your wife's name as she is eligible for a duty free import as a returning Thai national. Non-Imm "O" are not eligible for duty free import.
Despite the stories here, from personal experience, both on a Non-imm "B" and my wife as returning Thai national, we have not had any problems. If you read the thread carefully, you can see that the problems are due to people not either getting a good agent or ignorance of the rules and procedures.
TH
Thai national can import tax and duty free as long as they have lived where the shipment originates for at least 12 months and have not made frequent returns to Thailand during that period.
Posted 2009-11-13 09:00:38
phetaroi, on 2009-11-13 05:13:19, said: Marvo, on 2009-11-12 04:26:37, said: As for handing over an envelope full of cash to a stranger, purely to satisfy their extorting greed... it may be a satisfactory course of action for some here, but as far I'm concerned...
They can stick it up their arrrrrse!
Let the games begin. I've given my shipper's one last chance to sort it before I have to haul my ass up to Bangers tomorrow to do their job for them. Maybe I'll send them an invoice for my time and work. I'll report back and update of course .
Now just so we get this straight, you're going to absolutely refuse to let any cash change hands and if it comes up you are going to actually tell them to "stick it up their arrrrrse!" And also, if your shipping company doesn't get it done the way you like, you are going to invoice them? And, you are going to honestly tell us about the exchange on all sides?
C'mon phetaroi, give me some slack, I'm posting here in anonymous cyber space. Where else can I posture and imagine myself to be the macho guy (who I'm not) who won't let anyone push him around? My aim on this thread is to provide any useful information to anyone out there who may benefit in some small way from my experiences. Sorry if I let my fantasies carry me away but it's still going to take a crow-bar to prize an envelope of cash out of me .
I guess by the time all my belongings are unpacked for inpection and are strewn around the port and the said crow-bar is being used to prize apart all my valuables, a capitulation will be in sight.
Posted 2009-11-13 12:16:41
Marvo, on 2009-11-12 22:00:38, said: phetaroi, on 2009-11-13 05:13:19, said: Marvo, on 2009-11-12 04:26:37, said: As for handing over an envelope full of cash to a stranger, purely to satisfy their extorting greed... it may be a satisfactory course of action for some here, but as far I'm concerned...
They can stick it up their arrrrrse!
Let the games begin. I've given my shipper's one last chance to sort it before I have to haul my ass up to Bangers tomorrow to do their job for them. Maybe I'll send them an invoice for my time and work. I'll report back and update of course .
Now just so we get this straight, you're going to absolutely refuse to let any cash change hands and if it comes up you are going to actually tell them to "stick it up their arrrrrse!" And also, if your shipping company doesn't get it done the way you like, you are going to invoice them? And, you are going to honestly tell us about the exchange on all sides?
C'mon phetaroi, give me some slack, I'm posting here in anonymous cyber space. Where else can I posture and imagine myself to be the macho guy (who I'm not) who won't let anyone push him around? My aim on this thread is to provide any useful information to anyone out there who may benefit in some small way from my experiences. Sorry if I let my fantasies carry me away but it's still going to take a crow-bar to prize an envelope of cash out of me .
I guess by the time all my belongings are unpacked for inpection and are strewn around the port and the said crow-bar is being used to prize apart all my valuables, a capitulation will be in sight.
LOL...okay, cool...now I can truly wish you the best of luck on this!
Posted 2009-11-15 11:17:45
SEnt everything over in a Thai name(my wife) ,to a Thai (my sister in law) and was advised by my company not to get involved ,didnt cost a penny.
Posted 2009-11-15 11:34:23
chiang mai, on 2009-11-10 20:49:08, said: I was surprised to learn recently that Customs is regarded as the most corrupt of all the government agencies, with that in mind I would not be surprised at any line they come up with.
That was reported in the Thai press not so long ago. The Police Force came in a close second.
Posted 2009-11-15 13:22:44
chris1101, on 2009-11-12 02:00:24, said: maybe my mental faculties are failing me (in fact I'm sure they are!!).
When we return in January 2010 I was intending to have my personal items shipped out about the time we leave the UK. There should be about 5 cubic metres of boxes which contain books, clothing, model railway items, computer peripherals, photographs and a cheap set of 20yrs old golf clubs.
Many thanks to all on this site.
Because you mind is going, I will help you out. HAVE a jumble sale in the UK. You can buy new clubs in LOS. New compurters too, just put all the info on disks. Your photos could be brought in one suitcase. How many boxes of clothes have hung in the closet without being worn for years? sell them or give them to a thrift store. The books and model train stuff, 2 or 3 boxes!? sell or give the other 47 boxes away!!!
[maybe the local school could import the books as 'gift'? add to their library]
Posted 2009-11-15 18:40:03
thaiphoon, on 2009-11-11 18:24:37, said: The text on the Customs website is clearly wrong as immigration do not issue one year Non-Imm visas. But put that to one side. What then follows on the website is options if you don't already hold a one year Non-Imm visa. But you do, so prima facie this section is not applicable to you. So I think needing to show WP is a red herring. I only showed my 1 year Non-B visa when my possessions arrived, albeit a few years back.
The rules, or interpretation thereof, may of course have changed. The only way you are going to bottom this out is by talking to Customs directly. I would cut the agent out of discussions going forwards as any 'deal' would otherwise clearly include a 'fee' for them as well. Good luck.
Years ago I met a guy with a 3 years visum and after that a 5 years visum and it had something to do with exporting jewelry from Thailand. As it means he would have needed a work permit I assume they have rules for non standard circumstances....
Whatever you do keep your calm and stay polite even if the other site is more like a crook as they are the ones with the power to let you in cheap or not...
Posted 2009-11-16 08:18:06
Hello Marvo,
I had the same situation with you so I think there is no mis-understanding between you and Customs as much as we both hate it. I worked in corporate Thailand from 2005 - 2008 (3yrs) and entered with a B' and shipped a partial (very small amount of clothe as I was still single) and received full duty exemption.
In short; got married to a Thai national in 2008 and decided to retire here so I shipped my 'old household' goods from US. The value of the household goods were minimal as the shipping charge cost more... It was already a dilemma at this stage but my wife wanted the stuff rather than donate it to the Salvation army back home.
Through the US shipper I was able to get some Customs brokerage contacts in Thailand and this is where I was told about the
'Exemption' policy or rule of 'ONE time' only. As it turned out, by using a brokerage firm I paid a partial duty on the total contents of my household crates. (you know the rest of story; some of the duty money went to the pockets) but I got off much cheaper.
Posted 2009-11-16 09:45:54
Yes rfukata, they are reading me the "one time only" rules (which state that you can import personal effects duty free "one time only"). But, they are choosing to twist it and tell me that I can visit Thailand "one time only" before losing entitlement to duty free import of personal effects.
They are just playing games, expecting/hoping the importer who is not 100% clued up to just say "ah well, mai bhen rai, here's the cash you want". I have to admit that being clued up may not in fact get me what the law allows me, but just infuriate the Customs even more and send them bent on making my life hel_l for trying to be a clever dick . I'm expecting to be kept waiting forever, intimidated, made to jump through a few more hoops and then pay port storage for a month or two etc. etc.
Posted 2009-11-17 12:21:10
If you came in with an NON-IMM visa and then couldn't get the WP first time, so had to exit and get another NON-IMM, they are probably entitled to do that but, if you first entered on a tourist visa, their position would be hard to justify, as many people come for visits before coming to work and that shouldn't make any difference. Yes, the Finance Ministry has told them to collect as much tax as possible to make up shortfalls and pay for stimulus and customs duty is an important source of revenue in a country where most people don't pay any income tax. There is always something to pay for this case. I remember years ago being told by the shipping agent that I had to pay a small bribe or the Customs would insist on opening every case up and they had a record of damaging the contents, if the owner refused to pay the tea money.
BTW some people allege that the current Fin Min's father enriched himself indecently during a lengthy stint as DG of the Customs Dept. He was eventually dismissed for importing a car duty free but later exonerated (but not re-instated). At any rate the minister is probably well aware of opportunities to increase the government's share of the revenue collected by the Customs Dept.
Posted 2009-11-17 14:40:01
RubbaJohnny, on 2009-11-10 21:57:33, said: Get a Thai fixer to arrange he bung sadly thts the way the cookie crumbles here,the Esan folks are having the same problem trying to re-import a LOSs leader.
Surprising the customs are so flexible condsidering they got you by the nuts.The only ploy I can think of if really mean it says keep it .
However this is high risk strategy as they may
1 Nick
2 Charge a FEE for looking after it
Just think its AliBabas your dealing with and it puts you in the right mindset
Don't stress its a good early lesson of how the pecking order to the trough hereabouts.
you really should get this resolved asap as for sure they will charge you storage fees and that 85000 baht will still have to be paid.
Posted 2009-11-17 15:44:14
One offtopic post deleted
Posted 2009-11-17 22:42:17
Customs are having another look and giving me a taste of their power at the same time. I've just been required to submit a breakdown of the precise contents of every package and exactly how many of every item I have in each of the eighty three packages along with their values. That's one hel_l of a list of 30+ years accumulated memorabilia and artefacts!
It's funny because that's almost what I supplied my agent with in the first instance, but they made me re-format the list and dumb it down and condense it into the format that customs supposedly "wanted" the list in.
I think I'm going to be told tomorrow how much they "really" want. To be honest, I'm getting more bored with this whole thing faster than I imagined I would.
Edited by Marvo, 2009-11-17 22:44:40.
Posted 2009-11-17 22:56:24
Marvo, on 2009-11-17 15:42:17, said: Customs are having another look and giving me a taste of their power at the same time. I've just been required to submit a breakdown of the precise contents of every package and exactly how many of every item I have in each of the eighty three packages along with their values. That's one hel_l of a list of 30+ years accumulated memorabilia and artefacts!
It's funny because that's almost what I supplied my agent with in the first instance, but they made me re-format the list and dumb it down and condense it into the format that customs supposedly "wanted" the list in.
I think I'm going to be told tomorrow how much they "really" want. To be honest, I'm getting more bored with this whole thing faster than I imagined I would.
record the conversation, make a amature mini-doco, post it on you tube....post in TV. Probably will get some peoples attention.
Posted 2009-11-18 06:37:10
samran, on 2009-11-17 11:56:24, said: record the conversation, make a amature mini-doco, post it on you tube....post in TV. Probably will get some peoples attention.
What is your evidence that that would make any difference at all?
Posted 2009-11-18 06:49:15
Marvo, on 2009-11-17 23:42:17, said: Customs are having another look and giving me a taste of their power at the same time. I've just been required to submit a breakdown of the precise contents of every package and exactly how many of every item I have in each of the eighty three packages along with their values. That's one hel_l of a list of 30+ years accumulated memorabilia and artefacts!
It's funny because that's almost what I supplied my agent with in the first instance, but they made me re-format the list and dumb it down and condense it into the format that customs supposedly "wanted" the list in.
I think I'm going to be told tomorrow how much they "really" want. To be honest, I'm getting more bored with this whole thing faster than I imagined I would.
Marvo,
I really suggest you go to customs yourself and speak to the office handling your case, of course bring a thai friend to help. Get some cash ready maybe 2000 or 3000 baht and have your thai friend hand this over at the same time asking them if they could please get this resolved and giving them the phone number of the girl in customs you spoke to that said you are within your rights.
Things are tuff all over, so they might not let this go, best is to do it yourself be nice and give a tip to persuade them to read the rule correctly. Letting you agent handle this for you I dont believe is going to end up how you want it to.
Like I stated in a past comment on this thread I have imported things in the past and speaking to the customs directly not using the agent works the best.
Good luck... sorry you are having such a rough start in Thailand... it will get better (I hope)
Posted 2009-11-18 07:19:12
My broker would have cleared your shipment for a very attractive rate. Probably still could!!
Posted 2009-11-18 09:14:06
Marvo, on 2009-11-17 22:42:17, said: Customs are having another look and giving me a taste of their power at the same time. I've just been required to submit a breakdown of the precise contents of every package and exactly how many of every item I have in each of the eighty three packages along with their values. That's one hel_l of a list of 30+ years accumulated memorabilia and artefacts!
It's funny because that's almost what I supplied my agent with in the first instance, but they made me re-format the list and dumb it down and condense it into the format that customs supposedly "wanted" the list in.
I think I'm going to be told tomorrow how much they "really" want. To be honest, I'm getting more bored with this whole thing faster than I imagined I would.
The customs department normally requires a detailed inventory list. At my company we also will sometimes ask customers to simplify the list when we don't expect any hold ups. In this case, as I previously stated, 83 packages, large or small, would be condsidered a lot for 'personal effects' and customs wants to double check that you're not trying to sneak commercial goods past them. Also the reason for wanting to know quantities is that more than one of certain items will be subject to duty (e.g. anything that uses electricity). Don't worry too much about storage charges, although after extended periods of time they can add up, I believe it's only something like 15 THB/cbm/day. I don't know how much information you gave the customs officer you spoke to originally but if you didn't mention the large size of your shipment, that might be the reason for the increased interest now. I am still of the opinion that your original problem was stemming from the company and not customs. From what you've detailed there is no reason you don't qualify for the tax exemption. However, now that it's been stirred up you will probably have to, as a previous poster suggested, make 'friends' with a customs officer. Sometimes that's just the way things go here.
Posted 2009-11-18 10:42:33
phetaroi, on 2009-11-18 00:37:10, said: samran, on 2009-11-17 11:56:24, said: record the conversation, make a amature mini-doco, post it on you tube....post in TV. Probably will get some peoples attention.
What is your evidence that that would make any difference at all?
dodgy stories about king power seemed to as I recall.
All I'm saying is you never know the power of the web...
Posted 2009-11-19 18:26:48
Arkady, on 2009-11-17 12:21:10, said: If you came in with an NON-IMM visa and then couldn't get the WP first time, so had to exit and get another NON-IMM, they are probably entitled to do that but, if you first entered on a tourist visa, their position would be hard to justify, as many people come for visits before coming to work and that shouldn't make any difference. Yes, the Finance Ministry has told them to collect as much tax as possible to make up shortfalls and pay for stimulus and customs duty is an important source of revenue in a country where most people don't pay any income tax. There is always something to pay for this case. I remember years ago being told by the shipping agent that I had to pay a small bribe or the Customs would insist on opening every case up and they had a record of damaging the contents, if the owner refused to pay the tea money.
BTW some people allege that the current Fin Min's father enriched himself indecently during a lengthy stint as DG of the Customs Dept. He was eventually dismissed for importing a car duty free but later exonerated (but not re-instated). At any rate the minister is probably well aware of opportunities to increase the government's share of the revenue collected by the Customs Dept.
Arkady, Customs have actually told me two things. I can get duty free import under the following conditions:
A ) "If you hold work permit since more than 1 year/one time arrival."
B ) "You can get the duty free approval again in case of departure from Thailand and back with the new work permit (more than 1 year) which means the old work permit had already expired and you have made a new work permit."
So in that sentence "A" they are saying I can only get duty free import if I have "one time arrival" in Thailand. But in "B" they are saying that I can come to Thailand get a work permit, live and work for a year, let the work permit expire, leave Thailand, come back to Thailand, get a new work permit (valid for more than 1 year), then I can import my effects duty free  .
Back to the plot!
Crucially, the latest to have transpired is that the shipping company, when reformatting my packing list (which had no mention of weight) to "customs format", entered/declared a weight of 11 tons! when in fact the only figure I had given them was 11 cu m! Apparently this 11,000Kg figure is what is, unsurprisingly, attracting Customs attention. The agent is currently trying to get this straight with customs but as a paper has previously been submitted declaring 11,000Kg, I'm not sure how simple it's going to be to rectify that. We have in the meantime submitted a corrected weight estimate of 1,300Kg.
Currently waiting to hear back......... again.
Edited by Marvo, 2009-11-19 18:27:50.
Posted 2009-11-19 19:02:59
Update:
OK, news from the shippers. Going back to even before my effects had been collected from their point of origin, the shipper's office in Europe didn't have a "weight" figure on the packing list and invoice supplied to them so when they drew up the " Bill of Landing" somebody in their office just "guessed" at 11,000Kg! Now a new Bill of Landing has to be drawn up by the shipper's European office and re-submitted to customs in Bangkok, effectively starting the whole process from scratch - except that someone is going to have to pay some storage and demurage fees  .
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