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[wayfarer108]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 11:47:46, said:

Warning.. Massive Outbreak of Common Sense ahead..

The Times has a commentary out. Many are not going to like it. PM me for the link.

What's not to like? It was fair comment. Doesn't change the fact that Thaksin is arguably the most dangerous man in Thai history.

[h90]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 10:18:45, said:

PAD's New Politics.. nationalist claptrap and wanting war.. Hmmm..

["New Politics Party" logo; I did NOT make this up!

What's wrong with the logo?

[wayfarer108]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 11:19:44, said:

Also, and again looking at historical events, if Thaksin is finished then that would make him the first elected Thai PM deposed in a coup NOT to make a return to the prime stage later on. Old politicians never die in Thailand.

Your version of 'historical events' is distorted. Thaksin lost the premiership after dissolution of Parliament, and he announced on 4 April 2006 that he would not accept the post of Prime Minister after Parliament reconvened. He then delegated his functions to Caretaker Deputy Prime Minister Chidchai Wannasathit, moved out of Government House, and went on vacation. He had already stepped down on 8 May 2006, after the Constitutional Court ruled 8-6 to invalidate the April elections. The coup came in September 2006.

Other elected PMs have been deposed by coups and never returned to political office, however.

Plaek Pibulsongkram, elected 25 Jun 1949, deposed by coup 29 Nov 1951, never came back.
Kuang Abhaiwongse, elected 21 Feb 1948, deposed by coup 8 April 1948, never came back.
MR Kukrit Pramoj, elected 14 March 1975, deposed by coup 29 Oct 1976, never came back.
Chatichai Choonhavan, elected 27 Aug 1986, deposed by coup 23 Feb 1991, never came back.






http://www.cabinet.t...g/bb_main21.htm

Edited by sabaijai, 2009-11-14 14:48:48.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It looks like Sri Suan Plaza's logo in Chiang Mai, alright?

[Bagwan]

I couldn't help but think on seeing the picture of Hun Sen and Thaksin embracing that either wouldn't hesitate to knife the other in the back if it suited their purposes.

My wife's relatives live along the Cambodian border in Sa Kaeo and Buriram. Although of Khmer stock they are united in their detestation of Cambodians and tell me that they, the Cambodians, frequently cross the border to steal cattle, motor bikes and just about anything not locked up. The intruders are not averse to offering violence to anybody who gets in their way, so they say.

A friendly Pattaya cop, I'm sorry, I'll re-phrase that, a Pattaya cop who was being polite and non-aggressive towards me at that moment, in conversation mentioned that he came from just a few clicks down the road from my wife's family home. I said that we were going to visit family and friends the following day and would be making an early start. He was horrified when I told him that we would start out about 0300 so that we could make good best possible speed and that our route would be to follow the 359 to Wattana Nakhon and to take the minor roads avoiding Ta Phraya before joining up with 348 to Lahan Sai. He counselled me not to travel that route in the hours of darkness as it was so dangerous due to Cambodian incursions and on the few occasions that he had done so, he had placed his pistol on top of the dashboard within easy reach.

Given these insights I have to think that Thaksin's venture into Cambodia will not go down too well with those residing in those parts of Isan in proximity to the border.

Edited by Bagwan, 2009-11-11 13:10:44.

[way2muchcoffee]

Bagwan, on 2009-11-11 13:08:37, said:

I couldn't help but think on seeing the picture of Hun Sen and Thaksin embracing that either wouldn't hesitate to knife the other in the back if it suited their purposes.

My wife's relatives live along the Cambodian border in Sa Kaeo and Buriram. Although of Khmer stock they are united in their detestation of Cambodians and tell me that they, the Cambodians, frequently cross the border to steal cattle, motor bikes and just about anything not locked up. The intruders are not averse to offering violence to anybody who gets in their way, so they say.

[paragraph omitted]

Given these insights I have to think that Thaksin's venture into Cambodia will not go down too well with those residing in those parts of Isan in proximity to the border.

It might depend on the ethnic background of the families in question. Many Thai people from Sa Kaeo, Buriram, Surin, Sisaket, Trat, and Ubon have Khmer ethnicity. Many people living in these areas do not.

[TAWP]

jalansanitwong, on 2009-11-11 09:50:52, said:

I have no time for Thaksin but Abhisit is getting everything that he deserves. He is a Usurper and that always means your walking on thin ice. If an election is held, Thaksin and his crew will do what they always do to Abhisit. Thrash him to the point of humiliaton.

You mean like in the last election when they got pretty much the same ratio of votes and seats?

Facts and fiction is not the same thing.

[TAWP]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 12:45:27, said:

It looks like Sri Suan Plaza's logo in Chiang Mai, alright?

You sound like the morons back home that complained in the newspaper about furniture store selling 'nazi carpets'...very expensive carpets imported from India...
Never mind that this cross is in the other direction and the meaning of it...

For your ref:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...zi_Swastika.svg

Edited by TAWP, 2009-11-11 13:42:06.

[p_brownstone]

I am intrigued by the use of the word “should” in the final paragraph of the “Siamese Spat” article.

Another alternative which is never mentioned publicly.

Patrick

[h90]

TAWP, on 2009-11-11 13:39:38, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 12:45:27, said:

It looks like Sri Suan Plaza's logo in Chiang Mai, alright?

You sound like the morons back home that complained in the newspaper about furniture store selling 'nazi carpets'...very expensive carpets imported from India...
Never mind that this cross is in the other direction and the meaning of it...

For your ref:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...zi_Swastika.svg

in Hindu both directions exist and a couple of modifications of it. That symbol is thousands of years old and several time local modified

[WinnieTheKhwai]

TAWP, on 2009-11-11 13:39:38, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 12:45:27, said:

It looks like Sri Suan Plaza's logo in Chiang Mai, alright?

You sound like the morons back home that complained in the newspaper about furniture store selling 'nazi carpets'...very expensive carpets imported from India...
Never mind that this cross is in the other direction and the meaning of it...

For your ref:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...zi_Swastika.svg

I know all that. The only issue I would see with it being on a carpet is that you'd step on it, which you wouldn't do in Thailand. Still, for a political organization with extreme nationalist and feudal tendencies it looks a little inappropriate. Or maybe appropriate, I don't know. It's probably been discussed on this forum before. The Swastika topic is one of those forum ever-greens, along with Sin Sod, and the meaning of the word Farang.

Edited by WinnieTheKhwai, 2009-11-11 14:40:41.

[toybits]

Logo looks like a Swastika - a Nazi symbol... hmmmm...

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 10:18:45, said:

The Nation said:

visit coincides with rumour of 'war room' in Phnom Penn

["New Politics Party" logo; I did NOT make this up!

[jayboy]

wayfarer108, on 2009-11-11 05:38:06, said:

Doesn't change the fact that Thaksin is arguably the most dangerous man in Thai history.

What exactly do you mean by "dangerous" in this context?

I'm not drawing a parallel but just an example to clarify why I ask. Lech Walesa was the most "dangerous" man in post war Polish history.Why? Because he set in motion a series of events which unseated a corrupt and brutal communist dictatorship.

So how exactly is Thaksin "dangerous"?

[321niti123]

hammered, on 2009-11-11 10:34:17, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 10:18:45, said:

The Nation said:

visit coincides with rumour of 'war room' in Phnom Penn

I thought rumour mongering was frowned upon legally in this country.. Maybe only when it applies to the other side.

Quote

whose presence in Phnom Penh coincided with earlier rumours that Thaksin's innermost circle was setting up a "war room" in the Cambodian capital amid concerns that

Nice; a 'rumour' competely without source or fact. I'd flunk doing that even in a high school article assignment.

Gotta love the way The Nation completely flips things around, taking the 'bad relationhip with Cambodia' as a fact of life, and not something completely the Thai government's doing in recent times. Then they jump to saying that Cambodia is now somehow the enemy, meaning Thaksin is a traitor. Hello, Cambodia and Thailand had excellent relationships until very recently, as they should; they have a lot more in common than divides them, and are natural trade partners.

This nationlist BS initially banged up by PAD is getting to the Nation's head it seems. Go to war already why don't you.

PAD's New Politics.. nationalist claptrap and wanting war.. Hmmm..

["New Politics Party" logo; I did NOT make this up! (Linked from wikipedia.org)

I suggest you read up on history a little especially between traditonal rivals Cambodia and Thailand. You may need to throw Vietnam in there for insight too into the Cambodian position particularly when it concerns Hun Sens close relationship with that traditonal Cambodian rival too and how the balancing of two more powerful rivals on opposite borders affects policy. I ahve been in Thailand for a couple of decades and in that period cannot remember Thailand and Cambodia ever having an excellent relationship. At times it has been worse than now KR days and Embassy burning and at times better but never excellent. But I would suggest you need to look back a lot further than just the last couple of decades.

I agree, if look look back really far you will see that over 5 centuries ago (or more i am estimating) siam invaded cambodia right to phnom pen. More recently though the pra vihear temple and the hunsen story have incited this hatred of the khmers. Although it maybe right in saying that the nation is trying to push out a clearly biased story it is not right however to state that the conflict has just begun in recent years.
The idea of a warroom bring quite a bit of fear to the people in thailand, especially me since i am in rotc:(

[Scott]

Further discussions of the PAD symbol or the swastika will result in action against the posters.

Look at the title of the thread and keep on-topic.

Thanks.

[Ricardo]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 11:47:46, said:

Warning.. Massive Outbreak of Common Sense ahead..

The Times has a commentary out. Many are not going to like it. PM me for the link.

Excellent level-headed article, can't see what's not to like in it, but them I'm a farang.

[Asa]

wayfarer108, on 2009-11-11 12:38:06, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 11:47:46, said:

Warning.. Massive Outbreak of Common Sense ahead..

The Times has a commentary out. Many are not going to like it. PM me for the link.

What's not to like? It was fair comment. Doesn't change the fact that Thaksin is arguably the most dangerous man in Thai history.

Times commentary is alright. Just can't register to write something in. However, I suggest readers to compare the edited text and the original script before making any further comment there and here. In my view, the piece is so badly twisted it did not reflect the context of the interview.

This does not involve a danger-guage. Though I would say the most dangerous Thai is the one at the top of the Green men. We need them, but can't really trust them.

[Mobi]

The Times on Line has published the full, unedited transcript of their interview with Thaksin. It runs to 12 pages.

I would say without doubt that the original story that sparked all the mayhem did contain remarks by Thaksin that were "taken out of context" and to an extent they sensationalized the story in order to obtain maximum effect - which of course they were successful in doing.

There is a lot of stuff in the Thaksin interview which certainly gives a good insight into the man and his deliberate distortion of events and the truth, but there is no doubt that any remarks he made on the "delicate subject" were enshrined in gushing protestations of loyalty, love and obedience, which were removed in the published article.

One of the more amusing aspects of the full interview, is his claim that if it were up to him he would quit politics tomorrow, but that would be "selfish", as by doing so he would let down all his friends who were relying on him.

Also, his admittance that he has "one or two hundred million unfrozen dollars" outside of Thailand. Well if he admits to "one or two hundred million", I wonder what the real number is?

His true, unpleasant and egocentric character comes through loud and clear for all to see, but I do think the Times did a bit of stitch up job on him.

But he should have known better than to shoot his mouth off in such a manner to the international press - what did he expect?

Always his worst failing is his inability to keep his mouth shut, and keep his own counsel. A telling sign of a budding megalomaniac

[jayjayjayjay]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-11 10:38:58, said:

Well, people wanting war can always go back to the 1300's and the Khmer Empire. Or they could just see that developing trade, shared national resources and tourism makes a lot more sense. Anyway, this high seaosn is still early, so far no natural or man made disasters yet; I'd say it's not too late to fuc_k it up by having a boarder war.

hahah poetry, love it, nice touch WTK.

[rixalex]

Bagwan, on 2009-11-11 13:08:37, said:

A friendly Pattaya cop, I'm sorry, I'll re-phrase that, a Pattaya cop who was being polite and non-aggressive towards me at that moment,

[PeaceBlondie]

No swastika comments. Stay on topic.

[rixalex]

Mobi, on 2009-11-11 16:49:35, said:

One of the more amusing aspects of the full interview, is his claim that if it were up to him he would quit politics tomorrow, but that would be "selfish", as by doing so he would let down all his friends who were relying on him.

It's amazing that he manages to say these things with a straight face.

[LaoPo]

Mobi, on 2009-11-11 10:49:35, said:

The Times on Line has published the full, unedited transcript of their interview with Thaksin. It runs to 12 pages.

I would say without doubt that the original story that sparked all the mayhem did contain remarks by Thaksin that were "taken out of context" and to an extent they sensationalized the story in order to obtain maximum effect - which of course they were successful in doing.

Well observed Mobi!

I said the same in another topic.

Our problem on this forum is that we're not able to discuss into detail the role of the circles around the highest family in the country and/or the same family and it's members, in order not to jeopardize the existence of Thaivisa.

That makes it extremely difficult -impossible in fact- to discuss in all openness and fairness and that is sad in the 21st century, knowing that most of us come from rather open democratic countries where freedom of speech and press is allowed although not for the full 100% in most countries and examples.
But, we have to respect the rules of the forum.

On the other hand it also sad that it is allowed in the Thai press to bash en keep on bashing upon certain Thai (former) influential politicians whether they did bad things in the past or not.

Most people seem to fully accept that there's a 'LM' law in Thailand and respect that law to the fullest; at the same time they're standing in queue to smear, bash and attack those (former) politicians.
Even the Thai government seem to find it normal to sue, attack and bring former politicians to the law-benches (I'm not just talking a former PM in exile here), fair or unfair.

There are bad, ugly and corrupt politicians (and businessmen) all over the world and we all know it and there will be many more in the future.

But, to not be able and allowed to discuss certain issues but have the UTMOST freedom to smear upon other human beings is something hard to swallow whether throwing that sh_t is justified or not.

It's not democratic fairness but I know, -TiT- with it's "special" laws, rules and thick velvet curtains to protect the happy few.......hard to swallow for democratic people......


LaoPo

[Scott]

"Most people seem to fully accept that there's a 'LM' law in Thailand and respect that law to the fullest"

Thanks LaoPo. I don't accept the LM law, but I live in absolute fear of it! One never quite knows when something that's been said or written will come around and bite you in the behind.

Your post, however, does hit to the core of the problem and that is there is a lot that we can't say and as a result things get mixed up. Unfortunately, that's the way it is.

[dumball]

My my my , so much hyperbole , tempest in a teacup type of chenanigins by a bunch of people who can do sweet fanny adams about anything or even have an opinion expressed where it might mean anything or at least present a few moments of mirth . Simply pack up your bags , your buisinesse and all of your great wealth and remove it from Thailand , now that I feel sure would make a lot of people stand up and take note of what expats indeed do add to the wellbeing of many a Thai . Possible greater riots in Assan than possible for any Thahsin reasons when you remove the day to day living and livelyhoods of literally thousands of the poor unwashed .

My possibly unwelcome comments on the thread for what they are worth .