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[SpoliaOpima]

True., but I'm not so ethnocentric as to prefer only products from my own country. It's a big world out there, and you're not in Texas anymore, Dorothy   Why torment yourself with memories of what you can no longer have, when with a little flexibility you might grow to enjoy what's right in front of you? That's one of the keys to expat happiness. I mean that will all sincerity, JR. You seem to be all uptight how stuff you can't change.

BTW cattle in Mexico are not necessarily skinny. There are ganaderias that raise excellent beeves, as big and fat as any Texas variety, and on the same grain.

Also try coming to Bkk more often, where the beef doesn't taste weird.

[kikoman]

Texas has changed a lot in the last 26 years!

Texas, California , New Mexico and Hawaii Are Minority/ Majority states. which means Anglos are no longer the majority in those states now as we speak.

With the change in population, also comes a change in the food. Tex/Mex is the so called Mexican food that has strayed further from the original American/Mexican diet. As it incorporated a lot of beef into its dishes, that do not exist in the other Mexican, Mexican- American border foods.

In my first postings I stated, that Mexican Cattle were feeder stock, that ended up in Texas and other states feedlots. Texans have been eating Mexican beef, for decades, as well as most Americans. Foods in the US will now be labeled from where the U.S. food supply comes from, many will be surprised at the production point of origin of the food their eating.

Beef is beef, where ever it comes from!

There is starting a movement in the U.S. to return to grass feeding their cattle as that is the cows natural food! Corn is not, so as to deal with the illness corn causes feedlot cattle and the great amount of Antibiotics ,given to feedlot cattle is passed on to the consumer of that beef. The U.S. population is becoming more immune to different strains of infection because of the overconsumption of the medication given to the beef they consume.



Cheers:.

[hogheaven]

SpoliaOpima, on 2009-12-16 12:24:10, said:

bonobo, on 2009-12-15 14:50:06, said:

SpoliaOpima, on 2009-12-14 15:19:44, said:

Bonobo, you need to get around more

Well, perhaps you can enlighten me as where to get a decent burger here?  The best I have had might be at the BBQ Sandwich King, but the one I just had in Manila was not only better, but about 100 baht cheaper.

Actually I meant to post more than just the comment that you need to get around more, which looks rather rude by itself, and was not intended to be.   What I meant to say was that a lot of places in Thailand use imported USDA-grade American beef for burgers or otherwise. Last time I had a burger at the Hard Rock Cafe in Bkk, for example, they used US beef. Australian beef is also not uncommon, and very good.

Last week I had an excellent burger at Bistro M, behind Emporium on Suk soi 24  (good restaurant btw, with good pricing). Didn't notice whether the menu stated the origin of the beef but it was one of the better hamburgers I've had in awhile.

So if a burger made with US beef tastes better in the PI than here, it would tend to support the argument that it's the cooking more than it is the beef.

Re 'Texas beef,' plenty of Mexican beef is imported to the US and eaten by Americans who don't know the difference. I'm betting that if an adept chef cooked a slab of good Sonoran beef and one of Texas beef, then served them to you side by side, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Or you might even prefer the Sonoran beef. Texas longhorns hail from Spain, by way of Mexico as did the original culutre of ranching, cowboys and buckaroos (vaqueros).

Mexican cattle are continually imported to the US as feeder and stock cattle as well. About  45 % of all Mexican cattle imports end up in Texas. So it really means little to call an animal 'American' or 'Texan.'

More info on the strong relationship between Mexican and US beef cattle:

http://www.ers.usda....2001/AO282d.pdf

Mexican beef is classified in four major styles:

"Carne Norte" (Northern Style)
– American style, more fat and some marbling
• "Carne de Engorda" (Mexican Fed Beef)
– Finishing in feedlots or on pasture with supplementation
– Little fat (but white) and no marbling
• "Carne Tradicional" (Traditional Beef)
– Grass finished
– Little fat (yellow) and no marbling
• "Carne de Vaca" or "Carne de Desecho"
– Cull cow and bull beef

Unfortunately Mexican beef is not available here

At any rate, US beef is readily available in Thailand for those who want to pay the import premium. I've had burgers made with ground Thai sirloin cuts that are as good as any burgers I've had anywhere, all depending on the preparation.

what if i told you i have french Charley  hear in Thailand PURE BREAD , bread for eating , not cheap , that is why i have opted not to Slater  for this fall, but 30 day aged rib eye with tail 2 in thick marbled , the feed and type do matter , also the cooking and aging
most meat hear is cut to thin 1 in min. is best, but , i will bet the grill flavor is what was tasted not the meat,
BBQ is the only way to make a burger or steak , or open flame at least,

BEEF IS BEEF ......tell that to Japan,,,Kobe beef ,,,,,that was stupid .....there are breads for eating , milking, working, .....beef is not beef......

tell that to ans Angus cattle rancher , then ask why his beef cost more per pound , or Kobe, or Charley, if beef was just beef then you could get as good a Thai beef as any other place ....DO YOU????

Edited by hogheaven, 2009-12-20 06:59:16.

[raro]

Please keep it civil, thanks!

[JR Texas]

hogheaven, on 2009-12-20 06:50:50, said:

You are, of course, right Hogheaven.  Unfortunately, some people have decided to ignore reality/facts.

Fact:  All species of cattle are not the same, especially with respect to how the beef tastes.......itself related to feeding practices.

Fact:  Grain feeding cattle before slaughter is becoming more, not less popular in Mexico.  Why?  Because many Mexicans prefer the
"different tastes" of grain fed cattle.  

Relatedly, the cattle from Mexico along the border, when they are exported to the USA, are normally put in fed lots and fattened up prior to slaughter.  Why?  Because most people in the USA prefer grain fed beef.........simple.  

Fact:  The Texas Longhorn came from Spain (not Mexico).......then went to Mexico..........then to Texas.  That was a long time ago.  It plays a very minor role in America's beef industry (mostly genetic manipulation for disease resistance).

Fact:  The two species that are most popular for beef in the USA are herford and angus..........both from across the pond.  They did not come from Mexico.

Fact:  Mexican cattle have benefitted enourmously from genetic breeding with American cattle.

Fact:  Whether or not you like grain fed beef or not depends on your cultural upbringing........it is a cultural thing.

[bonobo]

My question now is what breed of cow is used for Thai beef.  Is it only a matter of selecting the proper breed?  As I wrote before, I have found Filipino beef to be quite acceptable, and with similar climatic and soil conditions, it seems to me that the beef itself could be quite similar to each other.  But in tasting the two, Filipino is much superior, in my opinion.

[JR Texas]

bonobo, on 2009-12-20 15:05:04, said:

My question now is what breed of cow is used for Thai beef.  Is it only a matter of selecting the proper breed?  As I wrote before, I have found Filipino beef to be quite acceptable, and with similar climatic and soil conditions, it seems to me that the beef itself could be quite similar to each other.  But in tasting the two, Filipino is much superior, in my opinion.

Howdy Bonobo..........the Thai cattle we are most familiar with, the white-colored one with the big ears, is called Thai-Brahman.  As the name suggests, it is originally from India........the famous Brahman cattle.

I see it all over Thailand......very common...........and always skinny because they don't grain feed them.

In the Philippines, I read that they have imported a lot of cattle from Australia and are no doubt cross breeding them with the local cattle, also a version of Brahman as far as I can tell from pictures.

In the Philippines they also (not always) grain feed them prior to slaughter....if not grain a high energy substitute.  That means more fat content and better tastes for some people who prefer that taste.

Interesting enough, in the USA we imported Brahman cattle a long time ago and also Charolaise (spelling) from France and cross bred them to get Charbray:

Here is a Charbray:

 charbray.jpg   69.9K   0 downloads

Here is a Brahman (healthy, grain fed one in the USA.....notice how different it looks from the Thai-Brahman):

 brahman_web_3.jpg   19.82K   0 downloads

And here is a Charolaisse (notice how full it is.........no bones showing):

 charolais.jpg   16.41K   0 downloads


Don't think I need to post a pic of the skinny, anorexic Thai-Brahman species in Thailand  

I see no reason why Thailand can't do more in terms of cross breeding.........personally, I would strongly consider the Charbray, but I have no idea how it would manage in this heat.......certainly the Brahman is adapted to this heat.

The species does matter.........but I think that what matters most is grain feeding at least three months prior to slaughter.  That is, it matters if you like and are used to the taste and quality of American beef, or Canadian beef, or Australian beef, or New Zealand beef.

[kikoman]

The thread is related to Thai, Mexican and U.S. beef,  What an individual is willing to pay for Kobe beef is entirely up to them.

I would like to know what Thai based Mexican Restaurants are serving Kobe beef?

I will return to beef 101.
Mexican Beef,Hereford is the most represented beef ,not only in Mexico,  but in all Latin America
 Hereford.jpg   7.49K   0 downloads

Black Angus herd were imported to Mexico from Canada, which in turn exports feeders to the U.S.!
 Mexican_Angus_Asgus.jpg   15.33K   0 downloads  Angus_in_Tequila_fields.jpg   25.64K   0 downloadss.jpg]

Charolai were imported from France to Mexico in 1936, Mexico exported the breed to the U.S. in 1950!
 Charolais_1936_1950.jpg   6.14K   0 downloads

Limousin were imported to Mexico from France in 1936, which Mexico exported to the U.S. !
 Limousin_1936_Kings_ranch.jpg   6.55K   0 downloads

Mexico is the number one exporter of feeder cattle To the U.S., Thur ports in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

I would venture to say most Mexican restaurants in Thailand serve Thai beef, as it is the least expensive and tends to keep cost lower.
I purchased Australian beef in Pattaya, and it was tough and not tasty. I have gone to walking street and ordered an U.S. T-bone steak ,it was just as bad!

I do not eat much beef now, as I gave up on finding good tender beef!

My Experience with Thai beef has been better, with the cuts I purchase in Nakhon Sawan and the meat truck that serves my village.

My wife knowing how to cook beef to my taste.

I live in the real world what is available to me here in central Thailand, not what I dream for that is not.

That is the reason why Tex-Mex food will not be a theme of a new resturant in Thailand, the beef involved would be to costly verses , authentic Mexican food.

Beef is beef, end of story!

Attached Files

•  Mexican_Angus_Asgus.jpg   15.33K   0 downloads

Edited by kikoman, 2009-12-20 20:42:38.

[JR Texas]

kikoman, on 2009-12-20 20:29:54, said:

The end of the story is that you are totally wrong!

[bkkjames]

JR Texas, on 2009-12-21 06:25:31, said:

kikoman, on 2009-12-20 20:29:54, said:

The end of the story is that you are totally wrong!

Finally, the thread ends to everyone's relief..

++__**** CLOSED****__++

[kikoman]

I agree with the last poster, there is no need to continue with this thread, without having a civil disagreement , concerning this subject.

I proved my points,

Beef is Beef!

End of Story

[SpoliaOpima]

kikoman, on 2009-12-20 20:29:54, said:

The thread is related to Thai, Mexican and U.S. beef,  What an individual is willing to pay for Kobe beef is entirely up to them.

I would like to know what Thai based Mexican Restaurants are serving Kobe beef?

I will return to beef 101.
Mexican Beef,Hereford is the most represented beef ,not only in Mexico,  but in all Latin America
Hereford.jpg

Black Angus herd were imported to Mexico from Canada, which in turn exports feeders to the U.S.!

Charolai were imported from France to Mexico in 1936, Mexico exported the breed to the U.S. in 1950!

Limousin were imported to Mexico from France in 1936, which Mexico exported to the U.S. !

Mexico is the number one exporter of feeder cattle To the U.S., Thur ports in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

I would venture to say most Mexican restaurants in Thailand serve Thai beef, as it is the least expensive and tends to keep cost lower.
I purchased Australian beef in Pattaya, and it was tough and not tasty. I have gone to walking street and ordered an U.S. T-bone steak ,it was just as bad!

I do not eat much beef now, as I gave up on finding good tender beef!

My Experience with Thai beef has been better, with the cuts I purchase in Nakhon Sawan and the meat truck that serves my village.

My wife knowing how to cook beef to my taste.

I live in the real world what is available to me here in central Thailand, not what I dream for that is not.

That is the reason why Tex-Mex food will not be a theme of a new resturant in Thailand, the beef involved would be to costly verses , authentic Mexican food.

Beef is beef, end of story!

Well-argued,kikoman,  it seems you know a great deal about beef and and know exactly how to prepare it well. No one is saying that Thai beef is the best, just that it's perfectly acceptable given the context. As I've said more than once, I've dined on Thai beef to great enjoyment, many times.

Quote

In beef cattle production, there is no one breed that can be considered the best. There are many variations in climatic conditions, production conditions, and market requirements throughout the United States and the world that breeds have to be chosen to fit the conditions and requirements for specific areas. It is believed that all modern domestic cattle evolved from a single ancestor, the Aurochs, which is now extinct. Modern beef cattle can be classified as one of two biological types, Bos indicus or Bos taurus. Each biological type has characteristics that are found in the breeds of cattle that fall under that classification, but
the breeds are not limited to these characteristics.

Source: http://imsonline.tam...ocs/8393_ST.pdf

The cattle slaughtered for beef in most urban Thai restaurants represent a variety of breeds that have been successfully imported and bred here, from charolais to hereford, with native stock for durability. I have a friend in Loei Province - a Mexican woman, by chance - who has run a cattle ranch there for nearly 20 years. Not a full-bred brahman or native beef in sight, rather various hybrids of Angus.

However brahmans do produce good beef. The breed was established in the USA and is a principal source of US beef.

Quote

Brahman cattle, breed of beef cattle developed in the S United States in the early 1900s by combining several breeds or strains of zebu cattle of India. Brahman cattle have a very distinctive appearance with a hump over the shoulders, loose skin under the throat, and large drooping ears; they are generally light to medium gray in color. The breed has contributed to beef production through cross breeding with European cattle, e.g., Hereford and Angus. These hybrid cattle exhibit hybrid vigor, i.e., they generally exhibit growth and reproductive rates greater than either of the parental types. Several new breeds of cattle have been developed in the United States based on Brahman-European crosses, some important ones being the Beefmaster (Brahman combined with Shorthorn cattle and Hereford cattle), Brangus (Brahman combined with Angus cattle), Charbray (Brahman combined with Charolais cattle), and Santa Gertrudis (Brahman combined with Shorthorn). Brahman cattle have been extensively exported.

source: http://www.infopleas...i/A0808699.html

One of the more successful breeds created in Thailand is Kamphaeng Saen, which is 50% Charolais, 25% Brahman, 25% Thai cattle.






JR, most Texas beef comes from Mexican cattle anyway, even if it originated in Spain (as I mentioned in my original post citing Mexico as the source for most Texas cattle) or elsewhere. Angus and Hereford breeds are the most common in Mexico nowadays, by the way. Texas was once part of Mexico fer crissake, get over it. You're over-generalizing. Your palate tells you beef A or B is better but in a blind tasting I don't think you could fool anyone.

Edited by SpoliaOpima, 2009-12-21 17:26:03.

[JR Texas]

SpoliaOpima, on 2009-12-21 17:21:34, said:

You gues must be smoking something  

Most beef in Texas did not originate in Mexico or come from Mexico.....that is nonsense.

Even the Texas Longhorn did not originate in Mexico.........it originated in Africa, then was exported to Spain, then to another place (forgot), then to Mexico, then to Texas.  

The rest of the beef cattle species that are popular in the USA came from across the pond.

Texas does import some small feeder cattle from Mexico..........they are then grain fed until fat enough for slaughter.

Other than that, you guys are dreaming or reading some strange Mexican history book.

[kikoman]

SpoliaOpima, on 2009-12-21 17:21:34, said:

kikoman, on 2009-12-20 20:29:54, said:

The thread is related to Thai, Mexican and U.S. beef, What an individual is willing to pay for Kobe beef is entirely up to them.

I would like to know what Thai based Mexican Restaurants are serving Kobe beef?

I will return to beef 101.
Mexican Beef,Hereford is the most represented beef ,not only in Mexico, but in all Latin America
Hereford.jpg

Black Angus herd were imported to Mexico from Canada, which in turn exports feeders to the U.S.!

Charolai were imported from France to Mexico in 1936, Mexico exported the breed to the U.S. in 1950!

Limousin were imported to Mexico from France in 1936, which Mexico exported to the U.S. !

Mexico is the number one exporter of feeder cattle To the U.S., Thur ports in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

I would venture to say most Mexican restaurants in Thailand serve Thai beef, as it is the least expensive and tends to keep cost lower.
I purchased Australian beef in Pattaya, and it was tough and not tasty. I have gone to walking street and ordered an U.S. T-bone steak ,it was just as bad!

I do not eat much beef now, as I gave up on finding good tender beef!

My Experience with Thai beef has been better, with the cuts I purchase in Nakhon Sawan and the meat truck that serves my village.

My wife knowing how to cook beef to my taste.

I live in the real world what is available to me here in central Thailand, not what I dream for that is not.

That is the reason why Tex-Mex food will not be a theme of a new resturant in Thailand, the beef involved would be to costly verses , authentic Mexican food.

Beef is beef, end of story!

Well-argued,kikoman, it seems you know a great deal about beef and and know exactly how to prepare it well. No one is saying that Thai beef is the best, just that it's perfectly acceptable given the context. As I've said more than once, I've dined on Thai beef to great enjoyment, many times.

Quote

In beef cattle production, there is no one breed that can be considered the best. There are many variations in climatic conditions, production conditions, and market requirements throughout the United States and the world that breeds have to be chosen to fit the conditions and requirements for specific areas. It is believed that all modern domestic cattle evolved from a single ancestor, the Aurochs, which is now extinct. Modern beef cattle can be classified as one of two biological types, Bos indicus or Bos taurus. Each biological type has characteristics that are found in the breeds of cattle that fall under that classification, but
the breeds are not limited to these characteristics.

Source: http://imsonline.tam...ocs/8393_ST.pdf

The cattle slaughtered for beef in most urban Thai restaurants represent a variety of breeds that have been successfully imported and bred here, from charolais to hereford, with native stock for durability. I have a friend in Loei Province - a Mexican woman, by chance - who has run a cattle ranch there for nearly 20 years. Not a full-bred brahman or native beef in sight, rather various hybrids of Angus.

However brahmans do produce good beef. The breed was established in the USA and is a principal source of US beef.

Quote

Brahman cattle, breed of beef cattle developed in the S United States in the early 1900s by combining several breeds or strains of zebu cattle of India. Brahman cattle have a very distinctive appearance with a hump over the shoulders, loose skin under the throat, and large drooping ears; they are generally light to medium gray in color. The breed has contributed to beef production through cross breeding with European cattle, e.g., Hereford and Angus. These hybrid cattle exhibit hybrid vigor, i.e., they generally exhibit growth and reproductive rates greater than either of the parental types. Several new breeds of cattle have been developed in the United States based on Brahman-European crosses, some important ones being the Beefmaster (Brahman combined with Shorthorn cattle and Hereford cattle), Brangus (Brahman combined with Angus cattle), Charbray (Brahman combined with Charolais cattle), and Santa Gertrudis (Brahman combined with Shorthorn). Brahman cattle have been extensively exported.

source: http://www.infopleas...i/A0808699.html

One of the more successful breeds created in Thailand is Kamphaeng Saen, which is 50% Charolais, 25% Brahman, 25% Thai cattle.






JR, most Texas beef comes from Mexican cattle anyway, even if it originated in Spain (as I mentioned in my original post citing Mexico as the source for most Texas cattle) or elsewhere. Angus and Hereford breeds are the most common in Mexico nowadays, by the way. Texas was once part of Mexico fer crissake, get over it. You're over-generalizing. Your palate tells you beef A or B is better but in a blind tasting I don't think you could fool anyone.

Some people that are not very informed about breeds of cattle and numbers of cattle imported mainly to Texas feedlots from Mexico via the Santa Teresa, New Mexico -one of the 10 importation points in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. Could learn a lot from the "Sources" indicated in your post,These sources where printed in the U.S. and by many Cattleman's Associations from Texas.
Also I was surprised to learn of the (Corriente Corresponder) North American Corriente Association. A U.S. -Canadian group who main purpose is 'Preservation of the true Mexican Breed of Corriente Cattle".

If possible will you provide me with a way I may  communicate, with the people that have the Kamphaeng Saen herd or where its products are available. Also I could not quite make out the price, looks like 586.00 baht is that per kilo?

Thanks again for your most informative post!

Cheers:

[bonobo]

This has been a fairly informative post for members interested in this subject.  But it has been dipping into the personal flames.  Anymore "end of story" one-upsmanships or "you must be smoking something"-type responses, and this thread will have to be closed just as threads in other parts of TV get closed when things get too personal.

Please, let's keep this civil.  I personally have learned a lot here, and I would hate for the thread to get closed just because it is getting too personal or egos are getting bruised.

[slapout]

I have also followed this thread with interest and yes agree, to have the contributors start a slinging match about best breeds etc would not be productive as the history of beef cattle, cross breeding, etc shows. That is one of the multiply reasons there is no one breed for beef cattle. The mention of bulls for beef is misleading as are cutter cows, this is the primary source of bologna, and other processed/tinned meats on the shelf. A young (yearling) butcher bull will not be the same quality meat as a steer of the same age and feed regime, nor will a heifer fed the same way. The latter will tend to more fat, less marbling by the nature of their physical make up. Different breeds exhibit different weight gain, thus the huge amount of info and tests available from the Ag Universities. Ease of birthing also enter into the big ranchers many choices as to what crossbreed they go with, if that is the decision they make. There are still a lot of pure breed cattle ranches around. Some of the best beef I have ever eaten was grass raised Montana beef. No feedlot was involved and the kill weight would be in the 900 to 1000 pound range. My observation of the quality of beef on the table is that it is affected by physical age, feed regime, sex, handling/aging of carcass, storage age/handling of finished product, cooking technique, and the attitude of the chow hound at the time of ingestion.

[kikoman]

The practice of penned up grain feeding cattle, is a process by which cattle are fattened faster and sold at market faster, this has been the backbone of the U.S. cattle industry, As the U.S. population consumes 25% of all beef world wide.
Raising grain to feed livestock world wide is seen in the cost of human hunger and poverty, in the developing countries in the world.
I prefer grass fed beef as it is the natural food for cattle, I also do not agree with the practice of feeding grain to animals ,instead of the millions of people that suffer from lack of food.

That is my preference not that I want all people to stop eating grain fed beef, that is the individual decision that each of us have to make for ourselves .

There is a movement to go back to grass/hay feeding of cattle, such as the Alderspring Ranch in Idaho that raises grass and hay fed cattle only. www.aldersping.com

 Grass_fed_beef__Grass_and_Hay___only.jpg   277.4K   1 downloads

I feel that importing the U.S. feedlot concept to the developing world would be a mistake as it would promote raising grain for animals instead of people!

There are cattle producers here in Thailand that already, raise grain fed stock and is available for those who prefer grain fed beef.  The Manhattan Steak house in Pattaya, advertise that they serve only U.S. and Australian grain fed beef .

This morning the wife and I took some rice to be de-husked, and they do not charge for the service but keep the husks and unusable rice grain as  cattle feed.
 IMAG0025.jpg   721.29K   0 downloads
 IMAG0027.jpg   642.81K   1 downloads



Also they not only make grain cattle feed, they use the husks to make charcoal and raise chickens to sell at the market.
The chickens are not the Thai home type but look more like a Leghorn and Rhode Island Red cross.
 IMAG0031.jpg   395.79K   0 downloads
 IMAG0030.jpg   679.46K   0 downloads

There are tens of thousands of these operation nation wide, if they do not use it to feed Thai cattle, they must export it to other countries.

The Thai beef eaters prefer their brand of beef , and it is a healthy alternative to grain fed feedlot beef.

Cheers:

Attached Files

•  cows_grass_vert_small.jpg   35.35K   0 downloads

Edited by kikoman, 2009-12-22 13:24:31.

[SpoliaOpima]

JR Texas, on 2009-12-21 17:52:27, said:

SpoliaOpima, on 2009-12-21 17:21:34, said:

You gues must be smoking something  

Most beef in Texas did not originate in Mexico or come from Mexico.....that is nonsense.

Even the Texas Longhorn did not originate in Mexico.........it originated in Africa, then was exported to Spain, then to another place (forgot), then to Mexico, then to Texas.  

The rest of the beef cattle species that are popular in the USA came from across the pond.

Texas does import some small feeder cattle from Mexico..........they are then grain fed until fat enough for slaughter.

Other than that, you guys are dreaming or reading some strange Mexican history book.

You can tell when someone has been out-argued when they resort to ad hominem and they lack sources to back their horse. The rest of us have provided ample citations, none of them from some 'strange Mexican history book,' a rather racist accusation.

[SpoliaOpima]

slapout, on 2009-12-22 11:33:13, said:

I have also followed this thread with interest and yes agree, to have the contributors start a slinging match about best breeds etc would not be productive as the history of beef cattle, cross breeding, etc shows. That is one of the multiply reasons there is no one breed for beef cattle. The mention of bulls for beef is misleading as are cutter cows, this is the primary source of bologna, and other processed/tinned meats on the shelf. A young (yearling) butcher bull will not be the same quality meat as a steer of the same age and feed regime, nor will a heifer fed the same way. The latter will tend to more fat, less marbling by the nature of their physical make up. Different breeds exhibit different weight gain, thus the huge amount of info and tests available from the Ag Universities. Ease of birthing also enter into the big ranchers many choices as to what crossbreed they go with, if that is the decision they make. There are still a lot of pure breed cattle ranches around. Some of the best beef I have ever eaten was grass raised Montana beef. No feedlot was involved and the kill weight would be in the 900 to 1000 pound range. My observation of the quality of beef on the table is that it is affected by physical age, feed regime, sex, handling/aging of carcass, storage age/handling of finished product, cooking technique, and the attitude of the chow hound at the time of ingestion.

Very informative, thanks.

[slapout]

You are welcome; A native type of beef in North America is the buffalo. These critters have been crossed with beef cattle and many think the meat is superior, as do those who raise pure buffalo stock. The latter is a learner meat and is not bad eating. The dairy cattle and the Thai type cattle which are butchered for the steak table, will never compete with the cross and pure breed beef cattle, due to the physical and genetic make up of the varmints (my term). A similar comparison is the Thai chicken vs the breed raised for consumption by commercial growers. Ask Kfc, Popeye, etc.

[bonobo]

slapout, on 2009-12-22 16:28:30, said:

You are welcome; A native type of beef in North America is the buffalo. These critters have been crossed with beef cattle and many think the meat is superior, as do those who raise pure buffalo stock. The latter is a learner meat and is not bad eating. The dairy cattle and the Thai type cattle which are butchered for the steak table, will never compete with the cross and pure breed beef cattle, due to the physical and genetic make up of the varmints (my term). A similar comparison is the Thai chicken vs the breed raised for consumption by commercial growers. Ask Kfc, Popeye, etc.

 I rather like American Bison (buffalo).  It is more difficult to cook, but it has far less fat and cholesterol and is quite tasty.

[kikoman]

Sorry my source is not working, if you would like to see that information, Type www.alderspring.com into search.

You can view my source from there.

Cheers:

[kikoman]

I as the OP request that this tread be closed, Immediately.

Thank you
Kikoman


Cheers:

[JR Texas]

SpoliaOpima, on 2009-12-22 15:04:53, said:

Some people get tired of trying to teach dumb rocks to turn over.  

It is possible to do research on the history of beef species in the USA.

It is possible to do some research on how feeding grain to cattle changes both the taste and texture of the beef.

To do that, though, you have to have an open mind about the subject and be willing to accept a truth that you might not want to accept.