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[aussiejosh]

If he has crime connections, SIMPLY STAY AWAY KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT. Seriously, not worth it.

[madjbs]

Good job that not everyone has that opinion.

Edited by madjbs, 2009-11-18 16:21:45.

[MrHammer]

Menny, on 2009-11-18 14:41:19, said:

neverdie, on 2009-11-18 14:27:43, said:

Menny,

Perhaps, it may be a good idea to see if you can get someone else to go accross rather than just your wife, Im guessing you live directly opposite these people, perhaps if a distant neighbour went over or someone totally else.....my thought being that it is still a possibility that this woman may tell whoever goes over to piss off, she may not be willing to accept help, perhaps its not how you think it is, maybe shes the one abusing the children, maybe she wont go against the husband....theres alot of maybe's but my suggestion is perhaps someone else might be able to go over, talk this over with your wife, see what you can come up with.

Maybe its a good idea to do so. We don`t live opposite. We live wall to wall so filming is not easy. But we hear them very clearly and we know about what they fight...
There is an old woman living opposite and she speaks with them from time to time. That has the effect that the man just increases his cruelness. So they don`t trust anyone around here. But the woman is sometimes smiling desperately at my girlfriend. maybe we will meet her somewhere outside to give her the numbers. We want to urge her to seek shelter with some friends and then move somewhere where he can`t follow her.
The whole thing is quite crazy and we believe that she is somehow bound to her husband. Thats horrible. The children are imitating this cruelness already with the family pets (dog puppy and small kitten) by pulling them around grabbing their tails, smashing them against walls and kicking them. The two brothers are fighting constantly, puring boiling water in eachothers faces and stuff... There needs to be done something as quick as possible for the sake of those children and the wife...
Its best if my wife arranges something. She is very careful and we will do the whole thing in a very hidden manner. They don`t have access to some good people araound here. Its a whole bunch of drinking, and dangerous young men...

Men who abuse women and children are almost always cowards. That's why he takes it out on his family when the old woman says something. Put the heat on this worm and watch him squirm.

I have no idea why women put up with such things so often, probably it's extreme and irrational fear of being on their own. Maybe she has no family?

It does sound like you're living in a bad neighborhood. Maybe a good idea to move regardless. Good luck with it!

[slapout]

Domestic violence is real and should/can be reported to the police. I have seen the police get involved (they showed up while the battering was taking place) and actually hauled the husband off for a 24 hour cool down. On a lighter note, If the op does not go this route he could contact johan's wife, introduce her to the lady and give them a bottle of whiskey to drink while waiting for the next episode from the wife/child abuser.

[perriwinkle]

Menny, on 2009-11-18 00:52:45, said:

Moving to another place is of course an option. I think it will move in this direction anyway. If they don`t move, we will have to move. That doesn`t however solve the problem of those poor children and his wife. I guess, the police would just do nothing wahtsoever. Does anyone know if it maybe made sense involving the tourist police first? We are also afraid, because if this man knew that we do something, he probably would go for us... It makes me really sad, that this country doesn`t seem to offer any good help in those situations. Domestic violence occurs far too often here. Aren`t there any places for woman to go with their children if they need to fear for their life? Like a womans house for abused wifes and their children or something?

Hi Menny,

This is also my first post here although I've been reading the Forum for quite sometime now. I see you have already many advices but I would like to add-on one more, and that's The Paveena Hongsakul Foundation for Children and Women. The 24-hour hot line is 1134 but please double check for accuracy. Or contact

Pavena Foundation for Children and Women
1047 - 51 Pon Luang Complex
Soi AmpornPhan 12, Moo 7
Phaholythin Road, Klong Tanon, BangKhen
Bangkok 10220
â·ÃÈѾ·ì 972-5489-90


I saw her often times on Thai newspapers doing her job helping children and women.

Hope this helps.

[WildChilli]

just asked for my wifes advise domestic violence is regarded as inhouse family problems
and even if reported wont cause him mutch greaf


I"d be happy to put the first 10.000 bht on the table if we can make a colletion and get 100.000 bht

im sure she would be happy to be relocated with her kids

( unless of course she is a user of drugs her self ) its posible but i hope not

far away from that low life drug dealing wife and child beating scum

do we have the means to do somthing about this ( i aint ritch but a few uf us im sure can spare a few thousan bht )

Edited by WildChilli, 2009-11-18 16:52:25.

[carmine]

wintermute, on 2009-11-18 13:00:37, said:

mrtoad, on 2009-11-18 12:55:09, said:

but if there is certain child abuse going on then, you have a moral obligation to report that to the police.

Average farang: Excuse me but there's a disturbance going on with my neighbors and I fear that there may be some domestic abuse going on

Thai police: *blank stare* No understand. Have problem?

Average farang: Yes, i'm afraid a woman is getting beat next door to me.

Thai police: *frowns* Thai woman beat you? *snickers and starts to doodle on notepad*

Average farang: no no no I mean a woman is getting hit by Thai man *mimes getting hit*

Thai police: Oh. *looks disappointed and bored*

Spot on!

[Youbloodybeauty]

Not saying this is even remotely what should be done but it finally worked in our case - and was the last resort.


Wifes sister and very young son was being beaten by the boyfriend and my wife employed the local motorbike taxi "boss" to have a few words with him.

From that day (many years ago now) we have never seen the coward again.

Nothing too nasty but gave him a taste of what he did. 

YBB

[sassienie]

MrHammer, on 2009-11-18 14:14:20, said:

I am disgusted with how many people here say to just ignore it or move away!

Child abuse is a horrible act and crime and should be punished by public flogging. What the hel_l is wrong with you people?

I agree with IanForbes, that the woman will most likely not leave the husband. That's why the police WILL have to get involved. If the children are being abused and the woman is not willing to leave then the children should be taken away.

There's no excuse for child abuse and it should be punished HARSHLY.

Words come cheap and easy talk when looking in from the outside.

Does the OP believe that he is bold enough to take on a vicious organised drug dealer who probably has police associated in the racket.

This is Thailand. If the OP reports the matter to the police, they may tip off the dreg as to whom reported him, than he would be at great risk wherever he moves to.

If I were the OP, I would seriously think this out before taking any actions that could create a situation where it is not safe for him to stay in Thailand.

Fools never listen to advice or use common sense, they only learn by experience.

[Menny]

WildChilli, on 2009-11-18 16:45:52, said:

just asked for my wifes advise domestic violence is regarded as inhouse family problems
and even if reported wont cause him mutch greaf


I"d be happy to put the first 10.000 bht on the table if we can make a colletion and get 100.000 bht

im sure she would be happy to be relocated with her kids

( unless of course she is a user of drugs her self ) its posible but i hope not

far away from that low life drug dealing wife and child beating scum

do we have the means to do somthing about this ( i aint ritch but a few uf us im sure can spare a few thousan bht )

Hi,
What a great idea! My gf just said, that she most probably takes drugs also... but the chances are 50/50. But just for the kids sake it would be great. You know what, I seriously doubt, that she would handle the money well so maybe finding her a small flat and paying the first three months rent should do the job until she gets some grip and works for herself (as she does now anyway) She works in a bar overnight (I know, it so fits in the picture...) I just come to think, maybe she doesn`t care too much about her children anyway. If she would, she would at least go away seeing her husband beating them senseless. She had many instances where her husband was beating her and her children (children every day) so why the heck doesn`t she move. I just don`t get the point. I am not a professional in this area so I don`t understand her. I don`t understand her husband but even more - why doesn`t she do something for her and her children???

[neverdie]

Menny, this picture your slowly painting for us, grows uglier by the minute.

[nputman]

Menny, on 2009-11-18 19:51:43, said:

WildChilli, on 2009-11-18 16:45:52, said:

just asked for my wifes advise domestic violence is regarded as inhouse family problems
and even if reported wont cause him mutch greaf


I"d be happy to put the first 10.000 bht on the table if we can make a colletion and get 100.000 bht

im sure she would be happy to be relocated with her kids

( unless of course she is a user of drugs her self ) its posible but i hope not

far away from that low life drug dealing wife and child beating scum

do we have the means to do somthing about this ( i aint ritch but a few uf us im sure can spare a few thousan bht )

Hi,
What a great idea! My gf just said, that she most probably takes drugs also... but the chances are 50/50. But just for the kids sake it would be great. You know what, I seriously doubt, that she would handle the money well so maybe finding her a small flat and paying the first three months rent should do the job until she gets some grip and works for herself (as she does now anyway) She works in a bar overnight (I know, it so fits in the picture...) I just come to think, maybe she doesn`t care too much about her children anyway. If she would, she would at least go away seeing her husband beating them senseless. She had many instances where her husband was beating her and her children (children every day) so why the heck doesn`t she move. I just don`t get the point. I am not a professional in this area so I don`t understand her. I don`t understand her husband but even more - why doesn`t she do something for her and her children???

Don't even think about trying to understand a woman that is in that situation. AND be real careful when approching her with your concerns as it may backfire on you. Drugs in particular methanphetamines make people crazy SERIOUSLY CRAZY! You said earlier the other people around know whats happening there. Get together with all of them and speak to a high ranking police officer AND what little official abuse help is available . Sad but it happens way to often and not only in Thailand. Remember to CYA cause you may open a can of worms when you step in and be prepared for anything imaginable to happen cause it will!

[Heng]

Is there a potted plant involved?

[imbobo]

WHERE CAN I SEND MY 2000 BAHT?

[Lovedog100]

quiksilva, on 2009-11-18 14:15:08, said:

You MUST let someone know what's happening to those poor children.

However, I'd definitely move away, regardless. I certainly wouldn't want to live next to a guy like that especially as he is producing drugs.

In fact that might be the best tip off to the police that you can give, they will almost certainly investigate drugs, but move fast and move first, you and your family's safety is important too.

In my opinion its not worth putting his cowardice to the test, as he is obviously very violent. Also from the sounds of it he is wired up on all sorts of chemicals, which can certainly override feelings of cowardice and self preservation.

I don't need to tell you that drugs, and violence is not a good combination. Its also worth bearing in mind that his associates are probably cut from the same cloth, so beware.

You don't want to be seen as the enemy, get to safety and then report.

I am going to agree with this one. However I would move first !! Then report. You could talk to the tourist police, they have NO Power. However they are connected and can inform the right people. I would highlight the drugs. Not much is likely to happen over a Thai man beating his wife and kids. The woman would most likely deny that it's happening, out of fear for herself, and fear of losing financial support. If the man goes to jail for the drugs, problem solved.

Giving the woman the names and numbers that others have provided will do little good, and may cause more harm for her, and you, if discovered by the man. I'm sure that she can't even read the English, and would be to scared to go seek help on her own. She would have already, if that were the case. If you get involved while still living next door, remember what many have said here. The man is a COWARD. A coward will retaliate with his friends, and weapons. A coward would never confront you alone, or with out a weapon. He WILL get even though. It's easy for him to get 8 or 10 drunk or drugged up Thais to come over and beat a farang. Think of yourself and your family first.

[grandslam]

Perhaps to one of the organisations who look after children whilst it is being reported i.e. if they can be proved to be doing what they say they are qualified for - someone must know if they are

[neverdie]

Heng, on 2009-11-18 21:03:32, said:

Is there a potted plant involved?

Aparently Onnut has one for sale

....it has a couple of grannies attached to it, they'd probably sort this coward out, they kept poor ole onnut on his toes long enough

Edited by neverdie, 2009-11-18 21:45:21.

[Menny]

neverdie, on 2009-11-18 20:14:26, said:

Menny, this picture your slowly painting for us, grows uglier by the minute.

Yeah, sorry. I didnt want to speak about anything at first but we both feel so disgusted about whats going on and new stories from other neigbours are popping now in minute by minute. Also for us it gets nastier and nastier. The point has now come where we actively are looking for a new house to do the first step Getting to a safe distance. From there we will inform the house owner (because he is a very good man...) about whats going on here. He might give us additional ideas. Helping this woman might backfire indeed! What if she tells her husband that the neighbours are extremely bored and even want to help her...
I am protecting my family - Distance is the first step. The second will most probably be an anonymous call to the police giving a hint. They might send some undercover agent in (That would indeed be the best)
Third step will be maybe getting together with the neigbourhood and do something. But everyone is just crazy afraid of them here and wants to avoid conflicts. This man has a huge group of young people around him and its not too much saying that he knows many many people in Phuket. Oh, I forgot to mention that a police officer is his second neigbour (only 2o metres away) make yourself a picture...
Its a really difficult situation and we have to be extremely careful especially as a foreigner in Thailand. I don`t want to be involved with anything since we have a company... Man - its a real headache situation!

[mahtin]

Speaking of grannies...

We need more OAPs like this

Who says that just because you are retired you cant play a full, active & useful role in society .... prepare to be made very very happy!

Gun-toting granny Ava Estelle, 81, was so ticked-off when two thugs raped her 18-year-old granddaughter that she tracked the unsuspecting ex-cons down - - and shot off their testicles.

The old lady spent a week hunting those men down -- and when she found them, she took revenge on them in her own special way, said Melbourne police investigator Evan Delp. Then she took a taxi to the nearest police station, laid the gun on the sergeant's desk and told him as calm as could be:
'Those b*stards will never rape anybody again, by God.' Cops say convicted rapist and robber Davis Furth , 33, lost both his penis and his testicles when outraged Ava opened fire with a 9-mm pistol in the hotel room where he and former prison cell mate Stanley Thomas, 29, were holed up.

The wrinkled avenger also blew Thomas' testicles to kingdom come, but doctors managed to save his mangled penis, police said. The one guy, Thomas, didn't lose his manhood, but the doctor I talked to said he won't be using it the way he used to, Detective Delp told reporters. Both men are still in pretty bad shape, but I think they're just happy to be alive after what they've been through.

The Rambo Granny swung into action August 21 after her granddaughter Debbie was carjacked and raped in broad daylight by two knife-wielding creeps in a section of town bordering on skid row. "When I saw the look on my Debbie's face that night in the hospital, I decided I was going to go out and get those bastards myself 'cause I figured the Law would go easy on them," recalled the retired library worker. "And I wasn't scared of them, either-- because I've got me a gun and I've been shooting' all my life. And I wasn't dumb enough to turn it in when the law changed about owning one."

So, using a police artist's sketch of the suspects and Debbie's description of the sickos', tough-as-nails Ava spent seven days prowling the wino-infested neighborhood where the crime took place till she spotted the ill fated rapists entering their flophouse hotel.

I knew it was them the minute I saw 'em, but I shot a picture of 'em anyway and took it back to Debbie and she said sure as hel_l, it was them, the oldster recalled.

So I went back to that hotel and found their room and knocked on the door and the minute the big one, , opened the door, I shot 'em right square between the legs, right where it would really hurt 'em most, you know. Then I went in and shot the other one as he backed up pleading to me to spare him. Then I went down to the police station and turned myself in.

Now, baffled lawmen are trying to figure out exactly how to deal with the vigilante granny. What she did was wrong, and she broke the law, but it is difficult to throw an 81-year-old woman in prison, Det. Delp said, especially when 3 million people in the city want to nominate her for Mayor.

Edited by mahtin, 2009-11-18 22:19:19.

[Meridian007]

I want to reiterate what has already been said, but with a warning to NOT talk with the woman in this situation. If she is using drugs, then you will be seen as the enemy who might take away her drugs. Even if she's not, beaten spouses develop such low self esteem that they become psychologically dependent on their abuser, hence the vicious circle. By talking to her you are only endangering your own family. For those who have said that you should "put pressure" on the guy and that he will crumble, that's a good idea in the west, but they aren't factoring in the Thai issues such as the strength of face, the OP being a foreigner (which is associated with face), and the fact that if he's a drug dealer, he has powerful friends. A dead hero is still dead.

Please contact the the numbers on the UNIFEM website that Neverdie posted, or try some of the other women's issues based NGOs such as the ones on this site (they aren't just rape or wartime-injustice focused, but deal with many different issues of abuse): http://www.stoprapen...g/ngoLinks.html
I would suggest doing this AFTER moving, preferably far enough away that they can't come after you. Good Luck!

(Wow, using those links twice in one day, what is this world coming to...)

[CarlBkk]

You need a good police contact. Many folks on here must know one and maybe your colleagues/friends in Phuket know one too. You need to ask their advice...explain calmly the situation...the two crimes, violence and drugs. Paint the picture and with the policeman's contact report him as a drugdealer. They'll be interested and will most likely stake him out (regardless of his "powerful" friends). Hopefully then he'll be put away if he really is a dealer and they can find proof. Otherwise it's back to square one.

And yes, although not a necessity, it would probably make you feel more at ease if you're on holiday or in another house when this ball starts rolling.

[Menny]

Good morning everyone!
I was just reading all your helpful advise again. Thanks for beeing there and trying to help out with your good ideas, numbers and so forth. We both were thinking a lot on how we can resolve this issue.
First of all I will repeat the steps that have developed during this discussion and seem reasonable for us:

• Get far away with my family, to a safe place.
  
• From there informing the house owner partially about unbearable noise and trash in front of his house
  
• and then...

Yes, and then we face this question. Is involving the police really clever?

There are some points that make it seem a good idea:

• The childrens safety
  
• Drug abuse and selling
  
• Extreme violence
  
• Stealing all their neighbours peace and scaring them
  
• Gathering a scary gang around him bothering neighbours

And some points which make it seem even crazy going to the police:

• Thai police may be involved
  
• They don`t care about domestic violence
  
• We don`t have proof on paper
  
• We might get badly involved and the whole thing backfires on us
  
• We don`t trust the police to work as clever and careful as they should here (e.g. undercover)
  
• We don`t have any helpful connections with police

Well, a whole lot of points. Sure, its pressing since children are involved but how do we proceed to not make it even worse? Some infos about the wife for all of you:
Even though I am really sorry for her, I can have absolutely no understanding about her behaviour in this situations. She is a mother, she has three children (The two boys left the house yesterday and they didn`t come back. We don`t know where they are by the way...) so she is alone with the baby. When the husband isn`t around, she sits outside on the street and lets the baby crawl around all by himself (in the dirt just next to some wastecontainer) without even looking at the small guy. (I guess the baby must be one year old or something). Instead she is playing with the dog. She watches her boyfriend/husband day by day heavily beating her boys and speaking such a bad language with them and her - but she decides to stay. A decisiOn for her children? I doubt that! If she requests him not to beat them soooo strong, he beats her as well. We hear every word on the other side of the wall - they are fighting about this most of the time.

In our opinion, helping her could make it worse!

• She might tell her husband
  
• She might get caught by him phoning those numbers
  
• She looses face - not beeing a good mum...
  
• She isn`t interested in help - otherwise she would have asked someone for it a long time ago
  
• Husband is watching her very very well...
  
• If she moves or runs, her family might be in danger. (Parents, sister, children etc.)
  
• Her families and our life would be in danger
  
• We are dealing with one member (her) of semi-organised crime and so one never knows

I guess, that you slowly see the seriousness of this situation. We don`t want to sit back and do nothing but doing something is crazy dangerous! This is a really ****ed up situation and we feel so sorry for the boys and this wife. We want to do something to help them but its like our hands are bound and everything we do could make it worse for all parties...
First step - moving!
I keep you informed on this story!

Thanks again to all of you guys - especially neverdie for all your good tips!

[neverdie]

mahtin, on 2009-11-18 22:15:04, said:

Speaking of grannies...

The wrinkled avenger also blew Thomas' testicles to kingdom come, but doctors managed to save his mangled penis, police said. The one guy, Thomas, didn't lose his manhood, but the doctor I talked to said he won't be using it the way he used to, Detective Delp told reporters.

Thanks for that mahtin, thats a classic story, they obviously breed their grannies tough down in Melbourne.

[bkkjames]

neverdie, on 2009-11-19 10:28:13, said:

braingurl, on 2009-11-19 10:16:53, said:

close the thread. its clear you just gonna move! whic is the right thing to do. no need to put members here thru all the drama


YOUR HANDS ARE NOT BOUND, YOU ARE JUST SCARED. i would be too.

there should be the word 'dead' in your nic as well, perhaps in the middle.

You gonna report yourself mate?

[tomahawk]

I had a similar situation in Pattaya, though not nearly as serious as one you describe. Thai guy was beating his wife. I went to his house and rang bell. He came to door and I told him to stop. I do not speak Thai but he understood what I was talking about. Through gestures and such I told him that if he did not stop I would do the same to him. Apparently he believed me as the beatings appeared to cease . I do not live there anymore so I suppose things have gone back to the way they were. I hope not but probably they have. I know things could have gone wrong and the guy could have shot me or something, but it is not in my nature to do nothing, partly because I am retired from law enforcement so have dealt with much violence. I do not know your situation, such as your age, physical condition, etc. I am a big guy so I am sure this is why I got away with this. I only say what I did. My advice would be at the least call the police. it is unfortunately the Thai way not to get involved. In situation I described my girlfriend was actually mad at me for getting involved, but I told her that is the way I am so get used to it or find somebody else. Actually the neighbors were happy I did this. However, the problem is, not only in Thailand either, no matter what you or even police do, the woman will stay with the guy in the end anyway. I never understood this, but that is the way it is.