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#51
dude007
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-20 08:55:07
Soupdragon, you are a diver! I can read this. Not a skin-diver but a scuba diver!  Skindivers don't use SCUBA. Definitely the best quote of the day... 
#52
fullcave
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-20 10:19:43
that's a tragedy. I wonder if they have contacted all the dive shops. RIP Sounds like a free diving accident. The weights are to compensate for the buoyancy created by the wetsuit. Standard procedure just need to be sure you have enough air to get back to the surface. Or she could have blacked out on the way to the surface "deep water blackout". 
#53
h90
Crazy Member Posted 2009-11-20 10:26:40
Anyone who uses the word "oxygen" to describe scuba tanks knows nothing about diving (Phuket Gazette, antony77, h90) Soupdragon, entirely accurate description of shallow water blackout, but you knew that. Thank you.
Please PLEASE don't lets have a discussion or speculation about how this poor woman met her tragic death. The ONLY facts that are known is that a middle-aged Caucasian woman wearing a wet suit is dead. Can we just leave it at that for the moment? RIP and condolences to the family. Actually, I noticed a few things from the photos that I hope investigators will as well. I am not going to suggest that any of these lead us to think one thing or another, only observations. Her weight belt appears to be donned with a right hand release, something only a scuba diver is taught. It has also slipped to the left. Take a look at the the size of her fins. Their small size suggest to me they are likely snorkeling fins. Scuba fins are usually bigger. And some serious freedivers use really long fins. I think she is wearing an older Mares Tropic 2 or 3mm shorty, possibly a front zip. Possibly a model made specifically for rental fleets. At first I thought it looked like her wetsuit was on backwards, as most suits have a seam up the middle of the buttocks, not up the middle in front, and due to the fact that it looks like there is a open zipper running down her front, and most shortys have a zipper in back, but then the logo on the right thigh changed my mind. Unless that Mares logo is supposed to be on the left rear thigh, (which I doubt) but if it is, then her suit is on backwards. She does not appear to be wearing a dive watch or wrist dive computer. Also possibly relevant is the fact that the owners of the land around Paradise Beach charge for access to the beach. If she left from the beach, she likely interacted with locals before doing so. Again, not making any suggestions, just observations. As I told! Very uncommon very uncommon to dive with oxygen due to the deep limit of 6-7 meter.... #54
ScubaBuddha
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-20 14:26:15
As I told! Very uncommon very uncommon to dive with oxygen due to the deep limit of 6-7 meter.... Oh I see...you were entertaining the thought that she was a tech diver then. They are the only ones that use pure oxygen. The likelihood of that being the case is very very close to zero, but not impossible I suppose. Remember the reason the word "oxygen" was brought into this discussion was because PG wrongly, as many non-divers do, say "oxygen tank" not understanding that it 99% of the time a scuba tank contains regular air, roughly 21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen. Unless it's NITROX in which case it has a little less nitrogen. (There are also mixes called TRIMIX and HILIOX) Anyway, they still aren't called oxygen tanks even if they have pure oxygen in them. They are still scuba tanks. Oxygen tanks, used in medical emergencies and for people with COPD are usually painted green and can be found in ambulances hospitals, and sometimes on dive boats. Edited by Scubabuddha, 2009-11-20 14:29:42. #55
ScubaBuddha
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-20 14:45:37
She had a bandage sort of wrap on her knee in the Thai Photo. What would that be for? Sort of shows a knowledge of athletics and sports as if the knee was wrapped do to heavy athletic use... More like water skying. appeared somewhat athletic looking and the wet suit looked expensive like it belonged to her and she had very wisely picked it from years of experience doing whatever it was she was doing. Doesn't look like someones wife. Possibly looks like a permanent expat of which single Falong women in Thailand are far rarer but many types like Thailands retirement offerings? Wow some bazarre comments in there. Doesn't look like someones wife? WTF The "bandage" you comment on is in fact her own skin sluffing off. This happens after many hours/days submerged in water. I luckily have never seen a floater up close, but had to see plenty of photos in EMT school. #56
Samuian
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-20 15:07:17
If she had been in the water for two days, why was no missing person report filed? Surely somebody must have noticed she wasn't around any more? Same thoughts came up when I read this story, you got a point there somewhere.... why! May she RIP! #57
h90
Crazy Member Posted 2009-11-20 15:57:47
As I told! Very uncommon very uncommon to dive with oxygen due to the deep limit of 6-7 meter.... Oh I see...you were entertaining the thought that she was a tech diver then. They are the only ones that use pure oxygen. The likelihood of that being the case is very very close to zero, but not impossible I suppose. Remember the reason the word "oxygen" was brought into this discussion was because PG wrongly, as many non-divers do, say "oxygen tank" not understanding that it 99% of the time a scuba tank contains regular air, roughly 21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen. Unless it's NITROX in which case it has a little less nitrogen. (There are also mixes called TRIMIX and HILIOX) Anyway, they still aren't called oxygen tanks even if they have pure oxygen in them. They are still scuba tanks. Oxygen tanks, used in medical emergencies and for people with COPD are usually painted green and can be found in ambulances hospitals, and sometimes on dive boats. No I am not, antony77 (who claimed to be a specialist) is speaking about the oxygen, I just repeat that they are very uncommon (and mean it is not probable that she used one). yes: only in technical diving (deco gas), re-breather with deep limits of 7 meter, very outdated (50 year) systems (developed/used from Hans Hass), some submarine rescue equipment, some extreme free diver fill their lungs with pure oxygen. All that is not common so I doubt that antony77 has an idea about diving. #58
the_webninja
Advanced Member Posted 2009-11-20 16:37:41
Following is a link to the report in the Thai press, with images of the corpse. Pretty gory, but perhaps it can help in the identification process. View at your own discretion. http://www.siangtai....p?News_ID=24101 Sorry, I don't see any Pics on that link, I also noticed that people who tried to post the Pics directly in this Forum have had the Pics removed. Lots of TALK about Pics, but I don't see any pics. Just thought I'd let you know. #59
ScubaBuddha
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-20 18:00:09
As I told! Very uncommon very uncommon to dive with oxygen due to the deep limit of 6-7 meter.... Oh I see...you were entertaining the thought that she was a tech diver then. They are the only ones that use pure oxygen. The likelihood of that being the case is very very close to zero, but not impossible I suppose. Remember the reason the word "oxygen" was brought into this discussion was because PG wrongly, as many non-divers do, say "oxygen tank" not understanding that it 99% of the time a scuba tank contains regular air, roughly 21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen. Unless it's NITROX in which case it has a little less nitrogen. (There are also mixes called TRIMIX and HILIOX) Anyway, they still aren't called oxygen tanks even if they have pure oxygen in them. They are still scuba tanks. Oxygen tanks, used in medical emergencies and for people with COPD are usually painted green and can be found in ambulances hospitals, and sometimes on dive boats. No I am not, antony77 (who claimed to be a specialist) is speaking about the oxygen, I just repeat that they are very uncommon (and mean it is not probable that she used one). yes: only in technical diving (deco gas), re-breather with deep limits of 7 meter, very outdated (50 year) systems (developed/used from Hans Hass), some submarine rescue equipment, some extreme free diver fill their lungs with pure oxygen. All that is not common so I doubt that antony77 has an idea about diving. That was my point, that you and antony77 both have no idea what your talking about. Google can be a very scary thing in the wrong hands. #60
ScubaBuddha
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-20 18:02:09
Following is a link to the report in the Thai press, with images of the corpse. Pretty gory, but perhaps it can help in the identification process. View at your own discretion. http://www.siangtai....p?News_ID=24101 Sorry, I don't see any Pics on that link, I also noticed that people who tried to post the Pics directly in this Forum have had the Pics removed. Lots of TALK about Pics, but I don't see any pics. Just thought I'd let you know. The link doesn't work if you copy and past it after it has been truncated, as thaivisa does sometimes, or maybe something wrong with thaivisa's forwarding system. If clicking on the below hotlink doesn't work, then try cutting and pasting the link between the < and > directy into your browser. http://www.siangtai....p?News_ID=24101 <http://www.siangtai.com/TH/newspage1_detail.php?News_ID=24101> Very annoying and, I don't know, a bit distasteful to animate the pics like they do on the siangtai website. Edited by Scubabuddha, 2009-11-20 18:06:34. #61
loquent
Advanced Member Posted 2009-11-20 19:01:19
Wearing weights but no "oxygen" tank? I assume that means no BC or regulator, too. So, an inexperienced diver panicked and removed her BC and air supply but forgot to ditch the lead. And a dive operator too scared to admit he lost a tourist. It is right to comment. Especially in view of the press report at the top of this thread which states 'oxygen' tank. It would have been an air tank or a mixture of gasses as used in technical diving. The report is ignorant and inaccuarte, the author is and presumably the police are in either quoting such or not corrcting such a comment made or received in interview. Therefore, our two pennorth is more informed and relevant. The free diving comments made on here are accurate. Although again anyone familiar with diving would be able to be more informed by considering the make and style of fins found on the deceased. Free divers do not wear bootees. Experienced scuba divers tend to have bootees and strap fastening fins while less experienced and beginner divers tend to have the slip on, cheap variety. Free divers will pay more. Not always the case but a good indicator. As is the thickness of the neoprene suit. Locals and expats living here tend to have very thin suits, whereas visitors [holiday makers] tend to have thicker neoprene that makes diving here a warmer than one would wish experience. The point about weights is correct in that divers tend to rent rather than bring the moulded weights with them. The exception being residents who may well eventually acquire there own lead weights. Again much can be learned from how the weights are attached to the belt. Owners tend to 'lock' the weights in place, whereas shop rented weights tend to be slipped on, and just as easily slipped off again at the end of the day when they are returned to the dive operator. Considering the mask, a personal item is usually well looked after when it is one's own. Simple examination as to its condition would resolve whether it was most likely rented or a personal possession. Also, rented masks tend to be the cheaper variety of a locally commonly supplied brand. Again, something that is easily ascertained. If ther ever were any kind of forensic examination the mask would reveal 'de-fogging' methods if any were used. Again, an experienced diver versus an inexperienced one. Taken as a whole the kit can reveal quite a lot of information that would be useful to a responsible police force that would use the clues if it had a clue. The missing BCD, tank and attached regulator should the deceased have been scuba diving can only be explained in two ways. Firstly, it was removed by the deceased at some point, for some reason unknown and since she became removed from it. Furthermore, the procedure for a diver in trouble is to ditch weights as a primary response. It is not to remove what is a floatation device, the BCD, and retain a weight belt. Moreover, in an out of air situation upon attempting an emergency ascent can see the 'empty' tank expand its meagre air supply and provide the diver with vital breaths of air. Again, a calmly responding diver even one who fails to survive would be found with BCD etc but not weight belt. Secondly, it was removed by person or person's unknown from the deceased. A bloated corpse has surfaced for some time and provided ample opportunity for a boat to inspect and retrieve anything such persons' considered to be valuable before releasing the corpse. Sadly, such events are not unknown as corpses are known to be robbed. Therefore, the discovery of any such missing equipment is vital. Despite the advice from the shrinking violets on here to have all the vision of a man with a brass eye, murder is a quite straight forward procedure under water. Recently, there was the much publicised case of a newly married couple on a diving holiday and the spouse simple disposed of his newly qualified diver wife. He drowned her leaving no tell tale marks on the body as it takes very little force to hold a diver down. The simple act of removing their regulator is all that is required. His error was to ahve turned off the air supply. The equipment when recovered proved his guilt. Obviously, no equipment makes this discovery not possible. This final comment is made to underline the importance of learning the facts. The diver may not have dived alone but been accompanied on a private boat or beach dive. If such were the case then suspicions even by lay-men are correctly aroused. Our over riding concern is that a professional and thorough investigation takes place by the Police. I believe there is little of hope of that. It is an unfortunate and sad death. Nothing changes that. But maybe such comments made on here can provide the oxygen of publicity that can embarrass and inform the Thai authorities into doing the right thing. #62
Soupdragon
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-20 19:14:27
WELL DONE, YOU HAVE READ THE SCUBA BIBLE ON PHYSICS BUT I PERSONALLY THINK THE LADY WAS DOING SOME SNORKELING AND GOT INTO DIFFICULTIES, PANICKED FOR SOME REASON AND LOST MASK AND SNORKEL . RIP AND CONDOLENCES TO YOUR LOVED ONES. PS. WE STILL DON'T KNOW 100% THE PHYSICS OF DIVING. ONE MORE THING COMES TO MIND, UNLESS YOU GO A LONG WAY OUT OF THE BAY, IT'S NOT REALLY DEEP ENOUGH FOR FREE DIVING. Do you always wear a weight belt for snorkelling ?? The only reason to do so would be to dive down. For the record shallow water blackouts can occur in only a few meters of water. I personally know of two deaths in Tonsai Bay on Phi Phi island that happened in less than 10 metres of water. It is very real.
Yes you are so wrong. You only need weights if you wear a wet suit. Your remarks about free diving are utter nonsense. In order to free dive you need to take a lot of deep breaths first. You don't need to rest between dives. I think the above comment is right. You must be a scuba diver, or referring to self contained oxygen apparatus. I am a free professional diver. I don't need scuba. I can dive to 35 meters and stay down 5 minutes. I have been free diving for 50 years, so I believe I know what I am talking about. It is dangerous because if you dive too deep you may not be able to surface. A free diver does not use weights because it would make it difficult to surface. The poor lady in question was not free diving but probably ditched her scuba tank. So Dive shops should be contacted to clarify the matter. I am hoping my comments can help. I came on here to offer what I thought was helpful advice, it seems you came on to brag about what a great freediver you are. Do you even know what partial pressure means ? As a "professional" you should know the subject inside out as it is the main reason many freedivers arrive at the surface unconscious due to shallow water blackout. #63
h90
Crazy Member Posted 2009-11-20 19:19:43
As I told! Very uncommon very uncommon to dive with oxygen due to the deep limit of 6-7 meter.... Oh I see...you were entertaining the thought that she was a tech diver then. They are the only ones that use pure oxygen. The likelihood of that being the case is very very close to zero, but not impossible I suppose. Remember the reason the word "oxygen" was brought into this discussion was because PG wrongly, as many non-divers do, say "oxygen tank" not understanding that it 99% of the time a scuba tank contains regular air, roughly 21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen. Unless it's NITROX in which case it has a little less nitrogen. (There are also mixes called TRIMIX and HILIOX) Anyway, they still aren't called oxygen tanks even if they have pure oxygen in them. They are still scuba tanks. Oxygen tanks, used in medical emergencies and for people with COPD are usually painted green and can be found in ambulances hospitals, and sometimes on dive boats. No I am not, antony77 (who claimed to be a specialist) is speaking about the oxygen, I just repeat that they are very uncommon (and mean it is not probable that she used one). yes: only in technical diving (deco gas), re-breather with deep limits of 7 meter, very outdated (50 year) systems (developed/used from Hans Hass), some submarine rescue equipment, some extreme free diver fill their lungs with pure oxygen. All that is not common so I doubt that antony77 has an idea about diving. That was my point, that you and antony77 both have no idea what your talking about. Google can be a very scary thing in the wrong hands. To admit I never googled that. As it is not important here and you don't think you need any more knowledge we can leave the oxygen topic. #64
h90
Crazy Member Posted 2009-11-20 19:40:28
deleted the upper part....
Yes you are so wrong. You only need weights if you wear a wet suit. Your remarks about free diving are utter nonsense. In order to free dive you need to take a lot of deep breaths first. You don't need to rest between dives. I think the above comment is right. You must be a scuba diver, or referring to self contained oxygen apparatus. I am a free professional diver. I don't need scuba. I can dive to 35 meters and stay down 5 minutes. I have been free diving for 50 years, so I believe I know what I am talking about. It is dangerous because if you dive too deep you may not be able to surface. A free diver does not use weights because it would make it difficult to surface. The poor lady in question was not free diving but probably ditched her scuba tank. So Dive shops should be contacted to clarify the matter. I am hoping my comments can help. I came on here to offer what I thought was helpful advice, it seems you came on to brag about what a great freediver you are. Do you even know what partial pressure means ? As a "professional" you should know the subject inside out as it is the main reason many freedivers arrive at the surface unconscious due to shallow water blackout. Right Soupdragon: I think it is important that people know that if they only dive a bit while snorkeling. when you do hyperventilation before diving down, you just slightly increase the O2 in your blood, but you decrease your CO2 a lot (that has chemical reasons I can explain if someone is interested). Mostly the urge for air is triggered by the CO2 level in your blood and not by the O2 level. But unconsciousness comes when the O2 level is going too low. So with a lot hyperventilation before diving down, you might get unconscious even a second before you felt that everything is OK the second effect "shallow water blackout" which adds to this: Say you fill your lung with air 21 % O2 (or 210 mbar) you dive down to 20 meter. The O2 level in your lung is already down to 8 %, but at 3 bar (1 bar normal pressure+1 bar per 10 meter water) it is a 240 mbar O2 partial pressure and your lung can take out some O2 of it. When you surface this 8 % are just 80 mbar partial pressure so not enough so black out on the last few cm to the surface. Together with the hyperventilation this killed a lot people already. In my home town a boy died in the 2 meter deep swimming pool as he blacked out. #65
uncertaintimes
Member Posted 2009-11-20 23:15:35
how brilliant this is
Wearing weights but no "oxygen" tank? I assume that means no BC or regulator, too. So, an inexperienced diver panicked and removed her BC and air supply but forgot to ditch the lead. And a dive operator too scared to admit he lost a tourist. #66
BusyBee123
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-21 09:03:49
Wearing weights but no "oxygen" tank? I assume that means no BC or regulator, too. So, an inexperienced diver panicked and removed her BC and air supply but forgot to ditch the lead. And a dive operator too scared to admit he lost a tourist. That's going fast in your thinking! And in the crime-direction!!! Everyone who is free-diving (without tank and regulator) needs a weight belt and fins and mask. I even go up to 35-40 metes deep without any tank or air supply, just a weight belt! There's nothing wrong about that. But that doesn't explain the reason of the dead of this lady! I don't believe that there is a diving shop involved in this: it's most probably an accident. This kind of equipment doesn't need to be hired from a diving shop! Doctors must be able first to determine the cause of the dead and then they can start make "assumptions", but please don't go so fast in seeing a crime in every dead body!  you slag off someone for their detective work then give your own detective work with no evidence, laughable if it wasn't so sad #67
geriatrickid
The consensus is that I am most excellent. Posted 2009-11-21 12:42:10
Reading this thread, a couple obvious questions remain unanswered, although I appreciate some of the "diving" analysis/opinion and I am learning alot;
- Was the body checked for trauma, particularly ahead injury? Boats can sometimes strike swimmers/divers for many reasons. If the body was submersed for a few days, there will be deterioration of the body that can interfere with the observation of such an injury. I do hope a proper autopsy is undertaken. - The body cannot have been in the water too long. Looking at the way the body was manhandled in the photos (you never lift a person that's been in the water for some time like that because the skin can come off in your hand like a glove) the body seems to have been in decent shape. Aside from the slouging, one usually sees scavenging from various fish. I didn't see that. I am having a hard time with the fact that no one at Paradise or in the water saw her. Maybe I'm naive, but I was under the impression that when people go snorkeling or diving they bring a buddy for safety purposes. This situation just doesn't feel right. - There's still no mention in papers as to the person's identity. Surely, neighbours or friends would have been concerned by now? This is the most disturbing aspect of the story. This poor soul's body goes unclaimed and for all anyone knows, she might very well be caring for a disabled spouse or partner, or have companion animals that are now unattended. This is someone's daughter/sister/partner/ mom/friend, and yet nothing. Very troubling and sad. #68
ScubaBuddha
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-21 12:48:42
.In order to free dive you need to take a lot of deep breaths first You don't need to rest between dives. antony77, please understand that Soupdragon is correct, although this may be the way you freedive, this is an extremely dangerous practice. Giving this advice is incredibly irresponsible. #69
h90
Crazy Member Posted 2009-11-21 13:09:20
Reading this thread, a couple obvious questions remain unanswered, although I appreciate some of the "diving" analysis/opinion and I am learning alot; - Was the body checked for trauma, particularly ahead injury? Boats can sometimes strike swimmers/divers for many reasons. If the body was submersed for a few days, there will be deterioration of the body that can interfere with the observation of such an injury. I do hope a proper autopsy is undertaken. - The body cannot have been in the water too long. Looking at the way the body was manhandled in the photos (you never lift a person that's been in the water for some time like that because the skin can come off in your hand like a glove) the body seems to have been in decent shape. Aside from the slouging, one usually sees scavenging from various fish. I didn't see that. I am having a hard time with the fact that no one at Paradise or in the water saw her. Maybe I'm naive, but I was under the impression that when people go snorkeling or diving they bring a buddy for safety purposes. This situation just doesn't feel right. - There's still no mention in papers as to the person's identity. Surely, neighbours or friends would have been concerned by now? This is the most disturbing aspect of the story. This poor soul's body goes unclaimed and for all anyone knows, she might very well be caring for a disabled spouse or partner, or have companion animals that are now unattended. This is someone's daughter/sister/partner/ mom/friend, and yet nothing. Very troubling and sad. That's a good point! diving down, and while surfacing getting hit on the head by a boat or Jetski (is it called like that in english??). I also do hope that a proper autopsy will be done. I never saw somewhere so crazy jetskis or boats with high speed near the beach like in Thailand. I know one case where diver put their "safety sausage" to the surface, so boats know there diver will surface and some jetski driver thought it is funny to drive slalom around them. Which is a super dangerous situation. #70
Soupdragon
Senior Member Posted 2009-11-21 14:57:42
Right Soupdragon: I think it is important that people know that if they only dive a bit while snorkeling. when you do hyperventilation before diving down, you just slightly increase the O2 in your blood, but you decrease your CO2 a lot (that has chemical reasons I can explain if someone is interested). Mostly the urge for air is triggered by the CO2 level in your blood and not by the O2 level. But unconsciousness comes when the O2 level is going too low. So with a lot hyperventilation before diving down, you might get unconscious even a second before you felt that everything is OK
the second effect "shallow water blackout" which adds to this: Say you fill your lung with air 21 % O2 (or 210 mbar) you dive down to 20 meter. The O2 level in your lung is already down to 8 %, but at 3 bar (1 bar normal pressure+1 bar per 10 meter water) it is a 240 mbar O2 partial pressure and your lung can take out some O2 of it. When you surface this 8 % are just 80 mbar partial pressure so not enough so black out on the last few cm to the surface. Together with the hyperventilation this killed a lot people already. In my home town a boy died in the 2 meter deep swimming pool as he blacked out. #71
ScubaBuddha
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-21 15:03:09
Reading this thread, a couple obvious questions remain unanswered, although I appreciate some of the "diving" analysis/opinion and I am learning alot; - Was the body checked for trauma, particularly ahead injury? Boats can sometimes strike swimmers/divers for many reasons. If the body was submersed for a few days, there will be deterioration of the body that can interfere with the observation of such an injury. I do hope a proper autopsy is undertaken. - The body cannot have been in the water too long. Looking at the way the body was manhandled in the photos (you never lift a person that's been in the water for some time like that because the skin can come off in your hand like a glove) the body seems to have been in decent shape. Aside from the slouging, one usually sees scavenging from various fish. I didn't see that. I am having a hard time with the fact that no one at Paradise or in the water saw her. Maybe I'm naive, but I was under the impression that when people go snorkeling or diving they bring a buddy for safety purposes. This situation just doesn't feel right. - There's still no mention in papers as to the person's identity. Surely, neighbours or friends would have been concerned by now? This is the most disturbing aspect of the story. This poor soul's body goes unclaimed and for all anyone knows, she might very well be caring for a disabled spouse or partner, or have companion animals that are now unattended. This is someone's daughter/sister/partner/ mom/friend, and yet nothing. Very troubling and sad. That's a good point! diving down, and while surfacing getting hit on the head by a boat or Jetski (is it called like that in english??). I also do hope that a proper autopsy will be done. I never saw somewhere so crazy jetskis or boats with high speed near the beach like in Thailand. I know one case where diver put their "safety sausage" to the surface, so boats know there diver will surface and some jetski driver thought it is funny to drive slalom around them. Which is a super dangerous situation. GK, I was thinking the same thing about when they lifted the body, but since it's not a video (thankgoodness) we don't know if the sloughing that you described occured. I believe there is some sloughing in the photo tho, where you see the skin is white. And I agree, the body looks like only 24 hours or less in the water, but I am drawing on forensics classes from 15+ years ago. I'm probably drawing more on Carl Haissan's novels actually. Body's literally fall apart and degenerate very very quickly in water. Good point about the boat traffic. The jetski's using the safety sausages as slalom buoys is nothing new, I have had it happen to me, and a friend of mine was hit on the head by a jetski on Kata Beach. There is no education about this prior to tourists jumping on them. It's not just tourists though, I had what was presumabley a capable farang sailor buzz me with little more than a meter between me and his prop and my marked surface buoy and his dingy as he was going out to his sailboat from MamTri's Boathouse. He realized what he did and apologized profusly when I surfaced yelling at him. I had an idea to get some stickers priced with instructions concerning this in many languages to put on all the jetski's if JJ and co. will allow. Concerning the added legislation of jetskii's maybe I will reconsider this. Also quote common for the long tail drivers to ignore or be unaware of the bouys purpose, as I have had a few very close calls with them as well. #72
h90
Crazy Member Posted 2009-11-21 15:56:21
Reading this thread, a couple obvious questions remain unanswered, although I appreciate some of the "diving" analysis/opinion and I am learning alot; - Was the body checked for trauma, particularly ahead injury? Boats can sometimes strike swimmers/divers for many reasons. If the body was submersed for a few days, there will be deterioration of the body that can interfere with the observation of such an injury. I do hope a proper autopsy is undertaken. - The body cannot have been in the water too long. Looking at the way the body was manhandled in the photos (you never lift a person that's been in the water for some time like that because the skin can come off in your hand like a glove) the body seems to have been in decent shape. Aside from the slouging, one usually sees scavenging from various fish. I didn't see that. I am having a hard time with the fact that no one at Paradise or in the water saw her. Maybe I'm naive, but I was under the impression that when people go snorkeling or diving they bring a buddy for safety purposes. This situation just doesn't feel right. - There's still no mention in papers as to the person's identity. Surely, neighbours or friends would have been concerned by now? This is the most disturbing aspect of the story. This poor soul's body goes unclaimed and for all anyone knows, she might very well be caring for a disabled spouse or partner, or have companion animals that are now unattended. This is someone's daughter/sister/partner/ mom/friend, and yet nothing. Very troubling and sad. That's a good point! diving down, and while surfacing getting hit on the head by a boat or Jetski (is it called like that in english??). I also do hope that a proper autopsy will be done. I never saw somewhere so crazy jetskis or boats with high speed near the beach like in Thailand. I know one case where diver put their "safety sausage" to the surface, so boats know there diver will surface and some jetski driver thought it is funny to drive slalom around them. Which is a super dangerous situation. GK, I was thinking the same thing about when they lifted the body, but since it's not a video (thankgoodness) we don't know if the sloughing that you described occured. I believe there is some sloughing in the photo tho, where you see the skin is white. And I agree, the body looks like only 24 hours or less in the water, but I am drawing on forensics classes from 15+ years ago. I'm probably drawing more on Carl Haissan's novels actually. Body's literally fall apart and degenerate very very quickly in water. Good point about the boat traffic. The jetski's using the safety sausages as slalom buoys is nothing new, I have had it happen to me, and a friend of mine was hit on the head by a jetski on Kata Beach. There is no education about this prior to tourists jumping on them. It's not just tourists though, I had what was presumabley a capable farang sailor buzz me with little more than a meter between me and his prop and my marked surface buoy and his dingy as he was going out to his sailboat from MamTri's Boathouse. He realized what he did and apologized profusly when I surfaced yelling at him. I had an idea to get some stickers priced with instructions concerning this in many languages to put on all the jetski's if JJ and co. will allow. Concerning the added legislation of jetskii's maybe I will reconsider this. Also quote common for the long tail drivers to ignore or be unaware of the bouys purpose, as I have had a few very close calls with them as well. I recall in Yugoslavia you needed a boat-driving license to drive a Jetski (many years ago), I don't know what the regulation is in Thailand? I never saw a longtail boat too close, but 1.000.000 Idi*ots with the jetski. #73
ScubaBuddha
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-21 18:11:36
I recall in Yugoslavia you needed a boat-driving license to drive a Jetski (many years ago), I don't know what the regulation is in Thailand? I never saw a longtail boat too close, but 1.000.000 Idi*ots with the jetski. Getting a bit off topic here, but it's ironic I just had conversation about this with a guy not 30 minutes ago. Based on what an official was quoted as saying to PG recently, and what this long time expat boat owner just confirmed to me today, technically you need a Thai boat captains license to operate a Thai registered boat, any boat, including jetski's, in Thai waters. The tourists are technically operating them illegally. Rather obviously, in practice this is not enforced. Ths issue does come up tho when your an expat living here and want a Thai registered boat of you own. Word is many of the farang boat owners bother since there is (virtually?) no Thai coast guard to enforce it. I'm told it's like 10,000 baht for the license, no exam or anything. I have been interested in this as I plan to get a boat of my own eventually. Edited by Scubabuddha, 2009-11-21 18:12:01. #74
h90
Crazy Member Posted 2009-11-21 22:48:59
I recall in Yugoslavia you needed a boat-driving license to drive a Jetski (many years ago), I don't know what the regulation is in Thailand? I never saw a longtail boat too close, but 1.000.000 Idi*ots with the jetski. Getting a bit off topic here, but it's ironic I just had conversation about this with a guy not 30 minutes ago. Based on what an official was quoted as saying to PG recently, and what this long time expat boat owner just confirmed to me today, technically you need a Thai boat captains license to operate a Thai registered boat, any boat, including jetski's, in Thai waters. The tourists are technically operating them illegally. Rather obviously, in practice this is not enforced. Ths issue does come up tho when your an expat living here and want a Thai registered boat of you own. Word is many of the farang boat owners bother since there is (virtually?) no Thai coast guard to enforce it. I'm told it's like 10,000 baht for the license, no exam or anything. I have been interested in this as I plan to get a boat of my own eventually. What a shame..... Actually there is a lot of coast guard, just the boats are usually wired to the mainland electric and a ton shells on it while the guards do something else. (I just remember the marine nationalpark at chumphon full of fishing nets just 15-60 (up to their speed) from the guards..... I recall my exam at Yugoslavia: The real theoretic book was a lot, but the exam was very simple, but what they wanted to know was that you understand don't speed near the beach, in the harbor no anchor where the phone/electric cables are etc etc. That should be enough and can be teach in 1 hour. #75
ScubaBuddha
Platinum Member Posted 2009-11-21 23:20:51
a ton shells on it while the guards do something else. (I just remember the marine nationalpark at chumphon full of fishing nets just 15-60 (up to their speed) from the guards..... Sorry, can't understand..again? Yugoslavia? (Bosnia/Herzegovina) Aren't they pretty much landlocked? Maybe just a single port on the Adriatic? Edited by Scubabuddha, 2009-11-21 23:22:04. |
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