312 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-12-17 14:16:10
 Jingthing, on 2009-12-17 14:09:21, said:
ericthai, on 2009-12-17 14:05:48, said: You had to know this was coming.
Anyway you can always claim that you agree your thai is not so good and that is why you are going to school, some people learn very very slow.
You can claim anything you like. They are still going to do what they are going to do. I smell the early stages of a crackdown on this category of extensions. Sorry to hear it.
Why dont they just line up all farangs and shoot them same as Policemen who deal yabaaaaa..............Oh hang on????
Posted 2009-12-17 14:16:12
macwalen, on 2009-12-17 14:11:46, said: This exam is a piece of cake if you do what you are supposed to do and that is to learn Thai. If you do not know anything at all then you may have a problem at some point but they warn you first so you still have time to catch up. It is a positive development as it reinforces the fact that ED visas are a legitimate way to stay in Thailand!
So can we take it you have confirmed there is now an exam?
Posted 2009-12-17 14:18:16
Juddging bi the spelink of sum of the ussers here, some need to go to English skool to.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:19:31
Happened to a friend about six months ago. He changed to a regular school because he was warned that he should be able to speak Thai on his next extension, or not show up at all.
But that was after two years of abusing the system.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:20:04
macwalen, on 2009-12-17 13:32:23, said: I need to check your report, no Walen student has had any problems so far, he visits the lessons maybe.......
I know that some foreigners in Thailand are only on a ed visa for staying but never visiting the school, its just another crack in the system which should be
closed. If someone wants to stay here he have to deliver prober paperwork, or in this case education.
I dont want the same for my homecountry too!
Posted 2009-12-17 14:20:40
tonititan, on 2009-12-17 14:13:13, said: eek, on 2009-12-17 13:47:55, said: Then of course the attendance record should be checked. But the language "test" they do..what are they basing that one? Are they drawing up various levels of testing depending on how many months/years a person has had a ed visa for? Some people understand Thai but have trouble conversing, some people can converse well depending on the topic/subject matter and vocab they have learnt. There are so many variables it seems a ridiculous concept. If they want to check up on those on an Ed visa, seems fair enough to me, but the idea of a test and those who judge you if its not regulated in some way seems a bit stupid. Each school has different methods, vocabulary etc. Who draws up the "test" and how is it marked/measured?
I agree that the testing would need to be planned, designed, and administered carefully. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, and learning Thai as a 2nd (or 3rd, etc) language is much more difficult for some than others. Personally, I attended a Thai class twice a week for 6 months - not for an ED visa, just for "fun." I worked hard, participated in class, and did my homework. After the 6 months, I still had much weaker Thai than some friends who just "picked it up" through daily living. Learning additional languages is just not one of my strengths. As others have said, attendance seems to be a more fair way to check the legitimacy of an ED visa. One guy could walk into immigration and be able to converse semi-fluently in Thai because he spends all his time with bar girls and various Thai girlfriends instead of going to class. Is he more deserving of an ED visa than someone who actually goes to class and puts in the classtime? No, not in my opinion. Of course, I'm not saying it's a bad idea to monitor all these ED visas, I just don't think an on-the-spot, informal conversational test is the best monitoring system.
I just love the people who say we should all learn Thai and its not so difficult, yeah right i cant even remember what I had for breakfast most days, my Wife must tell me words a million times before I remember them and then I get them confused 
Posted 2009-12-17 14:24:12
Let's get the traditional ThaiVisa greeting out of the way. ED visa people are not in my visa category, so I rejoice at any misery and problems that they may encounter from immigration. May everybody who's not me be kicked out of the country swiftly, as they deserve it.
In an ideal world, rule changes should be announced clearly and enforced fairly. It is fine to have a test as a condition for an ED visa extension, but it's unfair to surprise people when they're unprepared for it.
Obviously, some schools advertise with the main point being the visa ("for 10 years"), and the learning part only means to an end. No wonder some people buy it with this in mind. They're not necessarily bad people, folks.
In Thailand, "gaming the system" is not exactly unheard of or particularly reprehensible -- just ask any hi-so Thai. Germany or Sweeden it is not.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:25:39
And there is another example of a frustrated Immigration Officer who didn't get enough tea money.
The supervision on the legitimate (ED)-courses lies with the Thai Ministry of Education.
THEY issue documents for initial applications of ED-visa's and their extensions.
The only thing the Immigration has to do, is check the documents and extent the visa. There is no way that an Immigration Office is going to test ED-visa holders on their improvements.
They can ask for documents proving a certain improvement, but that's basically up to the TMoE.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:25:57
 I had a 3 month visa for Diving.
macwalen, on 2009-12-17 13:39:16, said: but probably as many as 90% are
Posted 2009-12-17 14:26:58
It is just today's news so I have to check it but as one student reported they asked him a few questions and they were not satisfied with his knowledge and he got a warning that if he does not improve they may not extend his visa next time. If I hear more cases I will report, so far this is the only one I know of.
Also I would not call it a crackdown on ED visas, that is much too exaggerated. It was a simple matter of verification. We also do not know what questions were asked.
I would imagine something like:
1. What is your name?
2. Where do you learn Thai?
3. What days do you attend your course?
4. Count for me from 1 to 10.
5. What time is it now?
6. What day is today?
7. How long have you been in Thailand?
8. Why do you learn Thai?
No idea, I will learn more about it and report back. These would be easy questions, you can learn it. No Walen student who attends school would have any problems at all.
Walen School - Teaching much faster!
www.thaiwalen.com
Edited by macwalen, 2009-12-17 14:32:26.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:28:24
It would seem reasonable that someone applying for an extension to learn a language should have some functional use of the language. The language schools will now have a new lesson to teach....."How to talk to an Immigration Official."
If they go the formal testing route, I think everyone should know that you've got some serious learning to do. Thais take testing seriously. It will also cost you.
On the other hand, I am sure people will find out which officials like purple paper and which ones like grey.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:31:03
macwalen, on 2009-12-17 13:32:23, said: Regarding our advertising, it is true that we can assist with ED visas for 10 years.
See its statements like that, which lose credibility..
You can see deep into the future.. You know exactly what the Thai immigration system will allow 10 years from now.. 
Posted 2009-12-17 14:33:24
balkanbluerumba, on 2009-12-17 14:10:17, said: eTiMaGo, on 2009-12-17 13:56:03, said: here's a bit of Thai to get them started:
som nam na 
A friend of mine has an ED-visa for studying martial arts. I wonder if immigration will ask him to demonstrate his abilities as well.
Back in the west you can get an ED for 'studying Thai culture' 'scuba diving' or pretty much anything else you dream up to put in the space.. But thats not the extensions tho.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:35:21
Credo, on 2009-12-17 14:28:24, said: It would seem reasonable that someone applying for an extension to learn a language should have some functional use of the language. The language schools will now have a new lesson to teach....."How to talk to an Immigration Official."
If they go the formal testing route, I think everyone should know that you've got some serious learning to do. Thais take testing seriously. It will also cost you.
On the other hand, I am sure people will find out which officials like purple paper and which ones like grey.
Insinuating corruption is not right, please avoid making this kind of comments about the Thai immigration.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:36:56
farangpattaya, on 2009-12-17 14:25:39, said: And there is another example of a frustrated Immigration Officer who didn't get enough tea money.
The supervision on the legitimate (ED)-courses lies with the Thai Ministry of Education.
THEY issue documents for initial applications of ED-visa's and their extensions.
The only thing the Immigration has to do, is check the documents and extent the visa. There is no way that an Immigration Office is going to test ED-visa holders on their improvements.
They can ask for documents proving a certain improvement, but that's basically up to the TMoE.
If you have been here for any length of time you will know Immigration can and will do anything they like. I'd like to see anyone trying to fight their decision.
Having said that, I've never, in all the years I've been here, had to pay tea money to have my visa extended.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:37:50
LivinLOS, on 2009-12-17 14:31:03, said: macwalen, on 2009-12-17 13:32:23, said: Regarding our advertising, it is true that we can assist with ED visas for 10 years.
See its statements like that, which lose credibility..
You can see deep into the future.. You know exactly what the Thai immigration system will allow 10 years from now..
I don't know the future, it is based on current conditions, if the law changes we will also change our offer, at the moment it holds true.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:39:29
macwalen, on 2009-12-17 14:35:21, said: Credo, on 2009-12-17 14:28:24, said: It would seem reasonable that someone applying for an extension to learn a language should have some functional use of the language. The language schools will now have a new lesson to teach....."How to talk to an Immigration Official."
If they go the formal testing route, I think everyone should know that you've got some serious learning to do. Thais take testing seriously. It will also cost you.
On the other hand, I am sure people will find out which officials like purple paper and which ones like grey.
Insinuating corruption is not right, please avoid making this kind of comments about the Thai immigration.
ha ha ha... superb..
Must say didnt take you for much of a practitioner of sarcasm until now..
Immigration.. Not being bent as a dogs hind leg.. classic.. Non imm O 12 months for 30k sir, certainly sir.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:41:54
macwalen, on 2009-12-17 14:37:50, said: LivinLOS, on 2009-12-17 14:31:03, said: macwalen, on 2009-12-17 13:32:23, said: Regarding our advertising, it is true that we can assist with ED visas for 10 years.
See its statements like that, which lose credibility..
You can see deep into the future.. You know exactly what the Thai immigration system will allow 10 years from now..
I don't know the future, it is based on current conditions, if the law changes we will also change our offer, at the moment it holds true.
So base it on current conditions.. What can you get them now ?? I year (or 3 months and extend 3 monthly).. So if being honest, you can say we can assist for 1 year visa's.
What happens in 5 years or 10 years, or 100 years.. who knows ?? So why claim only 10 ?? Why not claim 100 ??
Posted 2009-12-17 14:46:52
the point of my original post is being missed.
its a simple if you are on a ED visa for learning thai you should ensure you go and do the lessons as you may get tested at imigration, and if the lady with the badge feels you understood nothing she said she will tell you that if you do not improve then she will not be so overlooking next time.
one thing that does worry me a little. if every person on a ED visa now does start going to there lessons will there be enough seats !
one think i as wondering. when going to immigration for ed visa's & renewals
can you go to any office ? ie if you live in rayong and do a thai couse in pattaya. can you go to rayong immigration as it is you home area or do you have to go to the office where the education course takes place, ie jomtien in this case
Edited by silentnine, 2009-12-17 14:51:49.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:50:44
Let's take care in posting extremely negative remarks about the immigration department. One post has been deleted.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:51:48
harrry, on 2009-12-17 13:15:28, said:
Didn't take long these "high horse riding" farangs to show up. "Screw you, I got mine". Good 4 you, harry boy.
These moralists would be squealing like pigs (AGAIN) if the rules for THEIR visa had been changed.
It just looks like the school has not paid enough m-o-n-e-y to some high ranking official, nothing new. 
Probably newer school in Pattaya?
Edited by tim73, 2009-12-17 14:53:19.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:55:21
thaibkk, on 2009-12-17 14:15:03, said: some people's iq is not higher than their shoe size
luckily european size is different and bigger than us (size 9 US = size 42-43 european)
lol
ps: americans and brits have it so much more easy to learn a new language
as they only speak english in general
in my case, Thai is/would be my 5th language ...
as where english is my 3rd...
any consideration ???
Well! Let's make a distinction between Thai being your 5th language and the notion that, in reality, you know a little bit of Thai and, presumably, a few sentences in some of those other languages that you are boasting about! I am a linguist and, even though most would consider me fully bilingual in 2 languages, I don't even consider myself so, but then I am really picky and consider most unilingual speakers unable to claim that they know their first language, especially English, which is one of the most illogical and backward languages around, but I digress (as this sentence is). Assuming you mean being somewhat conversant in those languages and Thai, knowing a little of Thai is nice, especially if you have been staying here for a while and are young, but what a pain and waste of anyone's time, especially when a good proportion of Thais know English (and learned it for many years more than most foreigners will ever be able to learn Thai) better than most foreigners know Thai and especially when research demonstrates without a shadow of a doubt that it is extremely hard to learn another language well, past puberty (especially the accent). So, forcing expats to learn Thai seems totally counter-productive. And is Thai or the thousands of dialects? And, why would I want to learn more than just a few sentences to get by, because honestly, assuming they are interested, talking philosophy in Thai is not on my TO-DO list anytime soon! Maybe more effort should be put in reducing class size, improving their pedagogy around teaching English, and changing the culture that makes learning a language (especially English) extremely hard. Not that I am blaming anyone here, as some of these impediments are obviously gigantic, if not impossible to tackle! Although we know that the well-off just send their children abroad as a way to bypass this, which is a clear indightement that the system is inadequate. But I digress again!
So, about the crackdown! I am afraid those immigration officers know very little about linguistics and should not be ruling so harshly on a situation which is contrived at best. As far as I know, there are no clear expectations set in the visa asking someone to become proficient in Thai. And, if so, where are the objective tests that would determine one's proficiency. And, anyway, what about the "Mai Pen Lai" attitude? Some day it is on; some day it is off? Come on! It was hinted in those fantastic commercials that everyone spoke English in Thailand! Can I get my money back?
Edited by rethaired, 2009-12-17 15:14:40.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:57:44
tonititan, on 2009-12-17 15:13:13, said: eek, on 2009-12-17 13:47:55, said: Then of course the attendance record should be checked. But the language "test" they do..what are they basing that one? Are they drawing up various levels of testing depending on how many months/years a person has had a ed visa for? Some people understand Thai but have trouble conversing, some people can converse well depending on the topic/subject matter and vocab they have learnt. There are so many variables it seems a ridiculous concept. If they want to check up on those on an Ed visa, seems fair enough to me, but the idea of a test and those who judge you if its not regulated in some way seems a bit stupid. Each school has different methods, vocabulary etc. Who draws up the "test" and how is it marked/measured?
I agree that the testing would need to be planned, designed, and administered carefully. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, and learning Thai as a 2nd (or 3rd, etc) language is much more difficult for some than others. Personally, I attended a Thai class twice a week for 6 months - not for an ED visa, just for "fun." I worked hard, participated in class, and did my homework. After the 6 months, I still had much weaker Thai than some friends who just "picked it up" through daily living. Learning additional languages is just not one of my strengths. As others have said, attendance seems to be a more fair way to check the legitimacy of an ED visa. One guy could walk into immigration and be able to converse semi-fluently in Thai because he spends all his time with bar girls and various Thai girlfriends instead of going to class. Is he more deserving of an ED visa than someone who actually goes to class and puts in the classtime? No, not in my opinion. Of course, I'm not saying it's a bad idea to monitor all these ED visas, I just don't think an on-the-spot, informal conversational test is the best monitoring system.
IF you want something to be fair, you shouldn't be in Thailand. Thailand do not own you a living and they can do anything they want even if you disagree with it. You are a guest/alien here and that is the fact, it's their land and they set the law and the way they monitor you.
Edited by Bkkthebest, 2009-12-17 14:59:21.
Posted 2009-12-17 14:59:47
tim73, on 2009-12-17 14:51:48, said: harrry, on 2009-12-17 13:15:28, said:
Didn't take long these "high horse riding" farangs to show up. "Screw you, I got mine". Good 4 you, harry boy.
These moralists would be squealing like pigs (AGAIN) if the rules for THEIR visa had been changed.
It just looks like the school has not paid enough m-o-n-e-y to some high ranking official, nothing new.
Probably newer school in Pattaya?
tim73, I have no idea what you mean by your post? You mean Walen is a new school or Harry will lose his visa or what?
Edited by macwalen, 2009-12-17 15:00:06.
Posted 2009-12-17 15:07:33
macwalen, on 2009-12-17 14:26:58, said: It is just today's news so I have to check it but as one student reported they asked him a few questions and they were not satisfied with his knowledge and he got a warning that if he does not improve they may not extend his visa next time. If I hear more cases I will report, so far this is the only one I know of.
Also I would not call it a crackdown on ED visas, that is much too exaggerated. It was a simple matter of verification. We also do not know what questions were asked.
I would imagine something like:
1. What is your name?
2. Where do you learn Thai?
3. What days do you attend your course?
4. Count for me from 1 to 10.
5. What time is it now?
6. What day is today?
7. How long have you been in Thailand?
8. Why do you learn Thai?
No idea, I will learn more about it and report back. These would be easy questions, you can learn it. No Walen student who attends school would have any problems at all.
Walen School - Teaching much faster!
www.thaiwalen.com
questions i was asked.
do you have a Thai wife, are you married, do you have a marriage certificate, how many times per week do you go to your Thai lessons.
after the initial question asked in Thai the rest were asked in English with the reply requested in Thai.
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