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[camerata]

I hate to be the bringer of bad news but I just read this in the latest issue of the British Chamber of Commerce in Thailand's magazine:

"Unfortunately, the Labour Department has revised Work Permit regulations and a new list of the types of work foreigners are allowed to conduct will be issued by February 2010 at the latest. According to the current draft of the Ministerial Regulation, the new rules and practice will impact on current work permits (when they are extended) and also new work permits. [...] Despite the position of all foreign Chambers that liberalisation and streamlining of visa and work permit regulations would be advantageous for attracting and retaining much needed foreign investment, certain ministries appear to have taken the opposite view."

[Mario2008]

Looks like bad news if the Chamber of Commerce are opposed.

[raro]

do we have somemore details what those new rules exactly are? If the BCCT is not amused, it is not good news I take it...

[george]

According to my sources at the Department of Labour yesterday, this article from December 2009 is a big part of the problem:

Tighter controls sought on foreign ownership:
http://www.thaivisa....ow-t325518.html

Be prepared for a bumpy ride in regards to work permits, both new applications and renewals. I guess we will have more details in the next few days or weeks, but please read the article above and make your own conclusions.

Please note: We thought it was better to get this information out to our members right now, even if we don't have any exact details of the upcoming work permit regulation changes just yet.

[astral]

I guess we can say that TV had it's input to the new regulations, for better or worse............

[anais]

Sigh. Yet another obstacle for the young, the able-bodied, the bright who might, in spite of all reason, be interested in living in and building the country. Oh well. At least LOS will always have Nana and its ilk. Hope they can continue to sustain the country on prostitution ... the smart tourist money is going elsewhere.

[DegenFarang]

Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:

-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits

That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.

So what's the f'n deal here? Are they trying to expel all Farang or only a particular type? I think it may be possible the overall goal is to drive unskilled and illegal workers from the country - as in lower class Farang, leaching off of an already poor country. That would make sense. It would not make sense if they just want us all gone - a form of ethnic cleansing. Bad for their country in the long run if you ask me.

[Thighlander]

It's ironic that Cambodia seems to be more pro business.

[phuketrichard]

as long as tourism numbers continue to increase reagarless of the jetski scams, Tuk Tuk drivers actions in Phuket, Jewlery scams in Bangkok, taxi scams at airport. bad service on their national airlines  etc  etc.

Do you think they give a F#@K about  a few hundred thousand, ( at MOST) legally working/retired farangs living here?

[Brunus]

DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 06:38:53, said:

Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:

-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits

That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.

You forgot married people. Hopefully no crackdown on us

[johnswift1956]

Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.

Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits.  I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.

[peacefulwarrior]

Let's face it...

01. Still a very tight group of people run the show, like some 0.8X per cent of the populous which own every thing
02. Thailand is now a G20 member and no more 'golden triangle' or 'tiger' - state & desperately tries to westernize; i.e. 'jay-walking' laws
03. There's much concern about Farang mingling into the power circles - protectionism - see Russian & Western housing/building companies
04. Wouldn't you be kind of jealous or 'not amused' to see places and the stuff going on in like Pattaya as a Thai citizen - brothels etc.
05. You can get teachers and other low level 'employees' from countries like the Philippines or Morocco for a 1/3 of what 'white people' get
06. There seems to be a movement to regain control of certain areas & get rid of people which just bump around in 'their' country
07. Everyone in the region sees the ASEAN Union as the emerging force which makes 'western investment' rather unnecessary / avoidable
08. We see enough coverage in the media of Farang's bad behavior, i.e. the Australian Mom stealing sitting matts & swinger cartels
09. Aggression is best focused against 'outsiders' to divert the internal struggles, i.e. yellow vs. red shirts (which is a farce)
10. We can just hope that it will not end in repossession-ism / deportation B$

Please read and think twice if you will; this is not a condemnation but a point of view and many of you I guess have seen similar movements and streams. Honestly I am sick of the newsletter when every second blurp is dealing with 'crackdowns' on this and that. As for myself, I always tried to maintain a respectful and honest approach to the Thai's in general but I also am concerned of the 'status' of the Farang's image in the Kingdom. There is a breaking point in every relationship sometimes; sorry to say, but these messages simply tell: 'Behave, play after our rules or be kicked out / not allowed to come back'. Seriously hoping that our 'image' and 'treatment' will continue on a basis of mutual understanding and R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Thanks for your time
&
stay healthy and happy in this wonderful country!!!

[Osmosis]

ppmacready, on 2010-01-06 08:00:57, said:

Maybe they don't want to run the risk in the future,of being over run with immigrants like Europe?
Could anyone of foreseen how the UK would be effected by our pathetic immigration rules.
I think there being wise and learning from our disaster.

Maybe the Thais are worried that the standard of education in their schools will decline if they allow too many poorly educated foreigners into the country.

[orosee]

anais, on 2010-01-06 08:35:35, said:

... the smart tourist money is going elsewhere.

I can't quite follow this. Are you saying that tourists are in any way affected by work permit regulations?

As for the pink post, "most tourists have expat friends"? Just try and calculate the number of work permit carrying expats in Thailand based on the number of tourists, and you'll laugh about the silliness of your statement.

That said, I'm planning to run a Nail & Coffin ImEx business from 2012 onwards, so I hope that honest trade will still be on the allowed list then. Some research here told me that demand is at a peak.

Seriously, that list could have used some updating long ago. Most of the prohibited jobs are targeted at immigrants from Burma, Laos, Cambodia and China and largely concern lowly, menial or agricultural tasks. Time to add "Web Design", "Cold Calling" and "Loitering" to get back to reality.

Not at all feeling serious today.

[torrenova]

Do they really think they can run the show without outside help and investment ? Yes, they probably do. Can they ? No.

[jb5music]

DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 07:38:53, said:

Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:

-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits

That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.

So what's the f'n deal here? Are they trying to expel all Farang or only a particular type? I think it may be possible the overall goal is to drive unskilled and illegal workers from the country - as in lower class Farang, leaching off of an already poor country. That would make sense. It would not make sense if they just want us all gone - a form of ethnic cleansing. Bad for their country in the long run if you ask me.

The Farangs read too much over all political motive into these regulations and constraints. The people who impose them are trying to flex their muscles of control over their immediate domain and - 2) They're implementing these road blocks out of spite and to procure money from people that they can run around and charge money. It's just a giant superfluous run around. The goal being to extract money from the movements of the foreigners at every stage. From taxi fares to air and train and bus fares.

Rather than just send you back at the airport, they want to get you in here and send you through a rats maze of road blocks that you have to pay your way out of until there are so many of them you can't complete the bulcrap. THEN escort you to the plane and say "Thanks, Have a nice day ya'll" Come back real soon.

[jb5music]

jb5music, on 2010-01-06 08:32:29, said:

DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 07:38:53, said:

Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:

-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits

That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.

So what's the f'n deal here? Are they trying to expel all Farang or only a particular type? I think it may be possible the overall goal is to drive unskilled and illegal workers from the country - as in lower class Farang, leaching off of an already poor country. That would make sense. It would not make sense if they just want us all gone - a form of ethnic cleansing. Bad for their country in the long run if you ask me.

The Farangs read too much over all political motive into these regulations and constraints. The people who impose them are trying to flex their muscles of control over their immediate domain and - 2) They're implementing these road blocks out of spite and to procure money from people that they can run around and charge money. It's just a giant superfluous run around. The goal being to extract money from the movements of the foreigners at every stage. From taxi fares to air and train and bus fares.

Rather than just send you back at the airport, they want to get you in here and send you through a rats maze of road blocks that you have to pay your way out of until there are so many of them you can't complete the bulcrap. THEN escort you to the plane and say "Thanks, Have a nice day ya'll" Come back real soon.

So yes - As I have predicted on many posts. If your actually working in Thailand and your middle aged, And you bought a condo - don't rent it. And you married a Thai lady and have daughters. And you own a motorbike and a car. I would say that's not smart. period. I would sell everything I own and would start moving my daughters out of Thailand. I'm serious. I would. They'le try to kick not kick but work you towards the door very slowly and tyr to keep everything you've accumulated. Even your daughters. Don't think so? Ok , lets hope I'm wrong. But look at it. Is it not definetly going there in plane sight? Now I'm getting sick of thinking about and writing about such monkey turd business so I don't know why I do. None of this affects me - I 've already left Thailand and I never owned a thing and I never married a Thai lady and don't have any Thai daughters.

[monkie13]

peacefulwarrior, on 2010-01-06 07:13:19, said:

Let's face it...

01. Still a very tight group of people run the show, like some 0.8X per cent of the populous which own every thing
02. Thailand is now a G20 member and no more 'golden triangle' or 'tiger' - state & desperately tries to westernize; i.e. 'jay-walking' laws
03. There's much concern about Farang mingling into the power circles - protectionism - see Russian & Western housing/building companies
04. Wouldn't you be kind of jealous or 'not amused' to see places and the stuff going on in like Pattaya as a Thai citizen - brothels etc.
05. You can get teachers and other low level 'employees' from countries like the Philippines or Morocco for a 1/3 of what 'white people' get
06. There seems to be a movement to regain control of certain areas & get rid of people which just bump around in 'their' country
07. Everyone in the region sees the ASEAN Union as the emerging force which makes 'western investment' rather unnecessary / avoidable
08. We see enough coverage in the media of Farang's bad behavior, i.e. the Australian Mom stealing sitting matts & swinger cartels
09. Aggression is best focused against 'outsiders' to divert the internal struggles, i.e. yellow vs. red shirts (which is a farce)
10. We can just hope that it will not end in repossession-ism / deportation B$

Please read and think twice if you will; this is not a condemnation but a point of view and many of you I guess have seen similar movements and streams. Honestly I am sick of the newsletter when every second blurp is dealing with 'crackdowns' on this and that. As for myself, I always tried to maintain a respectful and honest approach to the Thai's in general but I also am concerned of the 'status' of the Farang's image in the Kingdom. There is a breaking point in every relationship sometimes; sorry to say, but these messages simply tell: 'Behave, play after our rules or be kicked out / not allowed to come back'. Seriously hoping that our 'image' and 'treatment' will continue on a basis of mutual understanding and R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Thanks for your time
&
stay healthy and happy in this wonderful country!!!

this is true!!
sorry to tell everyone, but if we just behave ourselves then nothing was going wrong.
and as it always was..the good suffer from the bad.....
it is logic what they do now

[kg1947]

[quote name='peacefulwarrior' date='2010-01-06 01:13:19' post='3247046']
Let's face it...

01. Still a very tight group of people run the show, like some 0.8X per cent of the populous which own every thing
02. Thailand is now a G20 member and no more 'golden triangle' or 'tiger' - state & desperately tries to westernize; i.e. 'jay-walking' laws
03. There's much concern about Farang mingling into the power circles - protectionism - see Russian & Western housing/building companies
04. Wouldn't you be kind of jealous or 'not amused' to see places and the stuff going on in like Pattaya as a Thai citizen - brothels etc.
05. You can get teachers and other low level 'employees' from countries like the Philippines or Morocco for a 1/3 of what 'white people' get
06. There seems to be a movement to regain control of certain areas & get rid of people which just bump around in 'their' country
07. Everyone in the region sees the ASEAN Union as the emerging force which makes 'western investment' rather unnecessary / avoidable
08. We see enough coverage in the media of Farang's bad behavior, i.e. the Australian Mom stealing sitting matts & swinger cartels
09. Aggression is best focused against 'outsiders' to divert the internal struggles, i.e. yellow vs. red shirts (which is a farce)
10. We can just hope that it will not end in repossession-ism / deportation B$
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

to : peacefulwarrior & johnswift1956 ........

pls add:  11. Make it EASIER for legit retirees to get their retirement visa and lower the minimum income required to
                   THB 50,000.- MAX. or in the bank THB 600,000.- MAX. Married retirees already get their break with
                   THB 40,000.- max./mo.  A 'criminal" can deposit THB 1 Million or THB 10 Million and apply for OA ret. Visa
                   at the moment, so selection must be done with care. (just look at major tourist centers-lots of them).

add: 12. Get rid of all those LOITERING foreign nationals (see: soi-3 Sukhumvit, etc.,etc. ) but then you must deal with
             "protectors" and you know who they are - don't you ?  Plus : Thailand doesn't need another tailor shop !!
             And how about those 'friends of the WG's - Working Girls" or shall I be blunt: PIMPS !! of all colours/races !!
             Lower overhead means lower consumer prices, basic assumption, so maybe we can afford those Blondes and
             Brunettes at a more reasonable rate ??? Isn't that what MONGERING is all about ?

cheers to all expats & mongerer (?) is that correct English ?  :)

[MyphuketLife]

johnswift1956, on 2010-01-06 08:11:06, said:

Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.

Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.

Really a person in the UK with allot of money at say the age of 30 can't retire?  they HAVE to work until they are 65?

[animatic]

In tough ecconomic times, the nationalistic impulse is to assume
all expats are taking jobs from Thais, not making jobs for Thais,
and so make it harder for expats to have jobs.

And to deflect the pain of internal factors they can't control
and blame external factors and those that can be connected to them,
like the expats of western nations, when western economics has failed to steamroll along.

I have my WP and doubt I will worry,
but I have one guy on one WP and I think he may be unhappy.

[thetefldon]

@ johnswift1956 "Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country."

Of course you can retire at 59 and many other ages up to and including 65. The age for retirement of teachers for example in the UK is 60. As a retired teacher I am here legally subject to the current visa regulations. Incidentally I  have not taught English in Thailand nor would I have any desire to do so.

I chose to come here to avoid the UK weather and the morons that now frequent my country of birth, both of which make the prospect of a UK based retirement unpalatable.  If Thailand wants to keep some of those same people out of this country then personally I back them 100%.

[PeaceBlondie]

Lots of early retirees before age 65. I retired at 56. Could have stayed to 77.

[johnswift1956]

thetefldon, on 2010-01-06 08:02:21, said:

@ johnswift1956 "Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country."

Of course you can retire at 59 and many other ages up to and including 65. The age for retirement of teachers for example in the UK is 60. As a retired teacher I am here legally subject to the current visa regulations. Incidentally I have not taught English in Thailand nor would I have any desire to do so.

I chose to come here to avoid the UK weather and the morons that now frequent my country of birth, both of which make the prospect of a UK based retirement unpalatable. If Thailand wants to keep some of those same people out of this country then personally I back them 100%.

I totally understand where you are coming from and agree with all you say. I am a former teacher in the UK.

I just do not understand why the retirement visa is 50+. And as for the previous comment that is listed that you can retire at 30 if you are rich enough. Just how large is this number? 10/20. These same persons are looking for jobs at 20,000 bt. Thai's need more than that to have any chance of a good existence.

Edited by johnswift1956, 2010-01-06 08:15:53.

[Footloose1949]

This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.

In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)

In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)

So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)

The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.

As you can well imagine, you then get a viscious circle of spiralling inflation, which is not what the government wants. Thai farmers have for some decades been complaining that they get a pretty raw deal income-wise, and hearing that falangs, are getting paid even more than a Thai national effectively doing the same job, just inflames this dissent further.