174 replies to this topic
Posted 2010-01-06 08:20:54
 johnswift1956, on 2010-01-06 07:11:06, said:
Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.
Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.
The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.
Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.
Johnswift - Why should people not have the option to retire to another country at 59 or even 49. Surely if you have been a big shot banker, engineer, doctor etc and have worked your pretty socks off and accumulated a nice pot of dosh, why shouldn't you have the choice to retire at an age of your choosing, to a country of your choice if they are willing to accept you? Thailand already stipulates you must have x amount in the bank to qualify.
As for the teaching suggestion, utter rubbish, how would this effect school, If contracts were limited to terms or academic years, how would schools retain teachers?? The summer holiday for Thai schools is three months long, how would the teachers support themselves?? Do you think its fair to expect people to be unpaid for 25% of the year and still return?? Or do you think they should be paid to go home?? Also many schools need there teachers to be in Thailand during the summer holidays for extra classes for new students.
Personally I think that this is one of those typical government games to try to satisfy all parties. On one hand they have 'relaxed' businesses (Annex 1 and 2 ??) which foreigners can work in, but on the other hand are presenting more stringent regs to allow foreigners to work in them. Probably to prevent and influx of foreign bankers etc, so that the thais get the lions share of the jobs in the new businesses which open.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:25:55
Just a reminder about Cambodia.
Hand over $200 or so at the airport & the nice Immigration man hand-delivers your passport & one-year visa to your home next day.
Not questions, not even a form to fill out.
Cambodia likes to make things easier for foreign nationals, because they have worked out that they contribute to the economy (brilliant really), so they have no work permits.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:27:33
What if? What if? Shouldn't worry too much, more laws means more 'tea money'. If all the laws made sense there wouldn't be a reason for the real system to break them. Relax. Enjoy.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:27:59
Brunus, on 2010-01-06 06:42:56, said: DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 06:38:53, said: Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:
-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits
That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.
You forgot married people. Hopefully no crackdown on us 
Contradictions, contradictions, everywhere I see them.
Start with 'married people'.
I am not talking about 'married' because they can't work, do business, own house, own land under the house, etc. Let's look at those 'happily' married, adopting fathers. Do they own here anything? Hmm...
No crackdown?... Wake up, mate, you have been cracked from the very start.
Now go to... ED Visa. Never heard of, or met a farang coming to LOS to learn Eng., Med., Law, IT, Technologies, Economics, etc. Why does it have to be always Thai Language? There are many good reasons to learn English, French, German, Japanese, Chinese, even Russian (sometime). These are huge economies, and many Thai study them... But why a farang in Thailand goes to a course for about 25,000Bt/year to study virtually a dud language? Ooops, NO OFFENSE meant to any Thai, or the Nation.
But it is a small, local event... nobody speaks Thai except Thai. And the go-go industry do speak English.
The answer is obvious... ED Visa is a way of getting a VISA. But why create such circumvent ways?
Multiple tourist Visas, or 'VISA RUNS'. There is no need for any crackdowns. These people are reduced to the status of half dogs, half vermin, half refugees, half undesirables... That's right, 4 halves. I think it takes twice a man to continue living under such conditions. I know I would not...
OK, what is this post about? I think it's coming to the point when, like it, or not, we all should oblige this LOS Govt AND GET TO hel_l OUT OF HERE! Sell out, get your precious wife + kids and get to hel_l out. Or, if you have the stomach,- leave them here, so that they do not lose their Thainess. 
Posted 2010-01-06 08:28:51
Thailand use to be easy for a visa as well, lets see what Cambodia is doing in 10 years.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:30:36
Thighlander, on 2010-01-06 06:39:38, said: It's ironic that Cambodia seems to be more pro business.
... Until you try doing business there! From experience - just a nightmare unless you are wealthy and can 'pay' to smooth the waters!
Posted 2010-01-06 08:31:38
Thailand getting the grip finally. A good example is TESCO LOTUS, CAREFOUR ...etc. Local markets gets shredded because nobody can compete against a giant like that. Would be nice to see some of'em shredded.
Edited by sedeflonga, 2010-01-06 08:35:37.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:33:19
Govt schools = 2 month holiday, max. For teachers, more like a month.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:36:11
backsoon, on 2010-01-06 08:27:59, said: Start with 'married people'.
I am not talking about 'married' because they can't work, do business, own house, own land under the house, etc. Let's look at those 'happily' married, adopting fathers. Do they own here anything? Hmm...
No crackdown?... Wake up, mate, you have been cracked from the very start.
I don't own anything but a motorbike here. Don't have kids. Don't live here all year long. Never paid anything to wife or her family. Just would like things to be easier
Posted 2010-01-06 08:37:43
Robroy, on 2010-01-06 08:25:55, said: Just a reminder about Cambodia.
Hand over $200 or so at the airport & the nice Immigration man hand-delivers your passport & one-year visa to your home next day.
Not questions, not even a form to fill out.
Cambodia likes to make things easier for foreign nationals, because they have worked out that they contribute to the economy (brilliant really), so they have no work permits.
TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!
U hand over $25 for a 1 month business visa. Then you go to a travel agent wihtin thta month and apply for a 1 year extensionm with muliple entry for about $265-$280 . u need fill out a form and hand over 1 pic.
If u dont know what ur talking about dont say anything
Posted 2010-01-06 08:38:19
peacefulwarrior, on 2010-01-06 07:13:19, said: Let's face it...
01. Still a very tight group of people run the show, like some 0.8X per cent of the populous which own every thing
02. Thailand is now a G20 member and no more 'golden triangle' or 'tiger' - state & desperately tries to westernize; i.e. 'jay-walking' laws
03. There's much concern about Farang mingling into the power circles - protectionism - see Russian & Western housing/building companies
04. Wouldn't you be kind of jealous or 'not amused' to see places and the stuff going on in like Pattaya as a Thai citizen - brothels etc.
05. You can get teachers and other low level 'employees' from countries like the Philippines or Morocco for a 1/3 of what 'white people' get
06. There seems to be a movement to regain control of certain areas & get rid of people which just bump around in 'their' country
07. Everyone in the region sees the ASEAN Union as the emerging force which makes 'western investment' rather unnecessary / avoidable
08. We see enough coverage in the media of Farang's bad behavior, i.e. the Australian Mom stealing sitting matts & swinger cartels
09. Aggression is best focused against 'outsiders' to divert the internal struggles, i.e. yellow vs. red shirts (which is a farce)
10. We can just hope that it will not end in repossession-ism / deportation B$
Please read and think twice if you will; this is not a condemnation but a point of view and many of you I guess have seen similar movements and streams. Honestly I am sick of the newsletter when every second blurp is dealing with 'crackdowns' on this and that. As for myself, I always tried to maintain a respectful and honest approach to the Thai's in general but I also am concerned of the 'status' of the Farang's image in the Kingdom. There is a breaking point in every relationship sometimes; sorry to say, but these messages simply tell: 'Behave, play after our rules or be kicked out / not allowed to come back'. Seriously hoping that our 'image' and 'treatment' will continue on a basis of mutual understanding and R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
Thanks for your time
&
stay healthy and happy in this wonderful country!!!
I agree with 'Peacefulwarrior' pretty much throughout the list. Someone stated that the attitude of the Thai govt. is getting increasingly negative towards "farangs"...and, in all honesty, who can blame them. I'm certainly not trying to be anyone's "guru" but I find most farang behavior here irritating and antagonistic. The predominance of negative comments about Thai lifestyle, intelligence, government, politics, religion, etc. here in the ThaiVisa forums is shocking! Some of that negativity might be justified but criticizing the Thai nation for the actions of a few just exacerbates the problem. Most falang residents drive big, expensive SUVs or newer model cars & trucks, live in huge homes inside walled (& guarded) compounds, make spurious comments about most of the things that are different here from those of their home country, and frequently have an unjustified "attitude" when dealing with the Thais.
A good start on cleaning out the 'negative' falangs would be to deport all of the misguided & 'pushy' missionaries, any identifiable sex offenders, and especially all of the CIA, MI6 & Mossad agents! (Also their political/security counterparts from Russia, Japan, China, Korea, et.al.) Spies just love Thailand...
Essentially, if you enjoy living and/or working in this lovely country, just be polite and friendly and the Thais will almost always respond in kind! IMHO
Happy New Year! 
Posted 2010-01-06 08:38:42
from an article New Thai Work Permit Rules to be Implemented in 2010 on the Integrity Legal Blog (a great source of visa and other info, BTW):
Quote Information regarding Ministry approved positions will not be available to the public as only officers at the Thai Ministry of Labour will have the list of approved positions. This list will be in an “internal guidebook,” which will only be distributed within the Ministry.
Oh, here's something else about work permits: Thai Work Permit Fees Raised.
Edited by mjochim, 2010-01-06 08:40:39.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:40:14
There are certainly ways to retain a work permit linked to a Visa.
Non Imm B you can get a work permit as a matter of course. That is clear.
Non Imm B attached to APEC Cards are also no issue and you do not need a work permit if you are 'consulting' and being paid offshore but you cannot stay past 90 days and they expect you to be in and out a lot on the passport so 4 times a year to comply with 90 day cycles will not cut it - you get red lit!
Work Permit for Non Imm O to support a wife is also a lot easier - especially if you have kids. They will arc up if you are married to a former 'bar fly'. But they will not deny you the right to work to support your family that I am aware of.
I have just renewed my Work Permit and they did so for 2 years no argument - but my Non Imm B is still 12 monthly.
I also understand that Education Visas are (in some instances) simply a scam to get money and in many instances with those applying never really having much intent to learn the language! Perhaps some stats from the schools on attendances and graduations would be helpful to the forum.
Investment Visas may or may not allow a work permit depending the type of investment. For instance if you build and manufacture in a BOI zone (purple zone) you have land ownership possibilities as well as work permits with up to 8 years tax exemption so really - there are incentives for Farang to be here despite some of the negative comments here. Perhaps a broader overview by people who are above the visa run status who actually do work here would be helpful.
Edited by asiawatcher, 2010-01-06 08:40:36.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:40:21
Mario2008, on 2010-01-05 18:46:35, said: Looks like bad news if the Chamber of Commerce are opposed.
just don't undestand the thinking behind making w p more difficult.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:41:22
in some touristic places, russians seem to have taken over the business of thai (russian hotels, restaurants AND hookers, etc...)
how do they manage to stay here ?
if those people are on EDvisa...let's kick them all out, if that would make Thai Gov happy
and leave the (more) 'honest' expat farang from western countries alone...
but thailand have a lot of low education (illegal) refugies from myanmar, cambodia, china...
these are the one's stealing low level jobs from thais
Thai Gov should not confuse farangs with all the rest of the foreigners
Posted 2010-01-06 08:46:29
johnswift1956, on 2010-01-06 07:11:06, said: Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.
Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.
The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.
Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.
Spoken in the true manner of someone who has gone totally native. Wear those silly bits of string around your wrist as well I presume?
And I imagine that in keeping strictly to the law you sit at home and nurse the sprog all day live off the earnings of the misses and go out drinking whisky in dark little dens singing karaoke with the boys at night?
What a load of bollocks.
Would you be as supportive if marriage and a few dollars in the bank didn't give you any residency privileges?
With a 345% increase in company collapses last year, and increasing number of company failures ince the 2006 coup, It's little man little dcik syndrome. People with a little bit of power trying to work out how they can bolster their position and protect the not so bright indigenous population.
Nothing but typical Asian, not Thai, Asian, jealousy, bitterness and envy.
Edited by Graham101, 2010-01-06 08:56:48.
Posted 2010-01-06 08:50:07
the focus seems to always be about getting a job and working within a system that it looks like 97 percent see as inept. With the global economy the way it is, i don't know where I would go to seek out employment. Again the Thai gov't jumps before looking, although to be fair they don't, or haven't shared the reasoning behind their actions, but they must have them. Starting a business here is very difficult. the 3rd world mentality, referring to people still by race for example, and the acceptance of ripping off the foreigners, has to change, and until it does, Thailand will remain handicapped. If you can't start a business 'in' Thailand, why don't you start one "outside" of Thailand, meaning on the Internet? For all the problems with the economy globally, the high unemployment, it's really a blessing. When the going gets tough, the tough go shopping. Go shopping for an online business and do it, and you don't need a work permit, nor would any of you be tied down to any one country. works for me, think about it. 
Posted 2010-01-06 08:50:08
jb5music, on 2010-01-06 07:45:34, said: jb5music, on 2010-01-06 08:32:29, said: DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 07:38:53, said: Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:
-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits
That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.
So what's the f'n deal here? Are they trying to expel all Farang or only a particular type? I think it may be possible the overall goal is to drive unskilled and illegal workers from the country - as in lower class Farang, leaching off of an already poor country. That would make sense. It would not make sense if they just want us all gone - a form of ethnic cleansing. Bad for their country in the long run if you ask me.
The Farangs read too much over all political motive into these regulations and constraints. The people who impose them are trying to flex their muscles of control over their immediate domain and - 2) They're implementing these road blocks out of spite and to procure money from people that they can run around and charge money. It's just a giant superfluous run around. The goal being to extract money from the movements of the foreigners at every stage. From taxi fares to air and train and bus fares.
Rather than just send you back at the airport, they want to get you in here and send you through a rats maze of road blocks that you have to pay your way out of until there are so many of them you can't complete the bulcrap. THEN escort you to the plane and say "Thanks, Have a nice day ya'll" Come back real soon.
So yes - As I have predicted on many posts. If your actually working in Thailand and your middle aged, And you bought a condo - don't rent it. And you married a Thai lady and have daughters. And you own a motorbike and a car. I would say that's not smart. period. I would sell everything I own and would start moving my daughters out of Thailand. I'm serious. I would. They'le try to kick not kick but work you towards the door very slowly and tyr to keep everything you've accumulated. Even your daughters. Don't think so? Ok , lets hope I'm wrong. But look at it. Is it not definetly going there in plane sight? Now I'm getting sick of thinking about and writing about such monkey turd business so I don't know why I do. None of this affects me - I 've already left Thailand and I never owned a thing and I never married a Thai lady and don't have any Thai daughters.
This must rank as one of the most bizarre posts ever on this forum .
Posted 2010-01-06 08:53:59
gr8fldanielle, on 2010-01-06 08:50:07, said: Go shopping for an online business and do it, and you don't need a work permit, nor would any of you be tied down to any one country. works for me, think about it.
Actually in Thailand you need a work permit in order to do so. Seems you are illegally working (if you are doing it here)
Posted 2010-01-06 09:01:50
Footloose1949, on 2010-01-06 09:15:13, said: This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.
In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)
In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)
So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)
The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.
How true ! I was on the farm of my girlfriend a few times last year and over New Year. She spoke of the land price around her farm going up soaringly high. The reason , as she pointed out, was that some farang who have girlfriends or spouses in this region had given them enough money to buy up all farming land from those willing to sell. They have almost TRIPLED the price per Rai in the recent 3 years by doing so !
This makes it even harder for farm helps or existing farmers to add up to their property or lease it. Also makes it far more impossible for anyone to save up enough money to buy his family a garden big enough to feed them. Subsequently, the Farang support of their GF's is increasing the hatred and helplessness they feel for us !
Posted 2010-01-06 09:04:14
DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 07:38:53, said: Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:
-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits
That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.
So what's the f'n deal here? Are they trying to expel all Farang or only a particular type? I think it may be possible the overall goal is to drive unskilled and illegal workers from the country - as in lower class Farang, leaching off of an already poor country. That would make sense. It would not make sense if they just want us all gone - a form of ethnic cleansing. Bad for their country in the long run if you ask me.
It's not just Falang though is it. It's every forigner regardless of skin colour or place of birth! Don't get caught up in the they hate whitey's mentality. I think this is more aimed at the Nigerians 
Posted 2010-01-06 09:04:31
DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 06:38:53, said: Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:
-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits
That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.
So what's the f'n deal here? Are they trying to expel all Farang or only a particular type? I think it may be possible the overall goal is to drive unskilled and illegal workers from the country - as in lower class Farang, leaching off of an already poor country. That would make sense. It would not make sense if they just want us all gone - a form of ethnic cleansing. Bad for their country in the long run if you ask me.
No change if you are married to a Thai (non imm o) that covers a lot of expats...
Posted 2010-01-06 09:04:59
It simple the local elite don’t like you foreigners at all and I don’t like you either. Hahah 5555555 have fun this rule will change 12 times before you are done reading this worthless post.
Posted 2010-01-06 09:08:04
Footloose1949, on 2010-01-06 08:15:13, said: This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.
In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)
In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)
So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)
The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.
As you can well imagine, you then get a viscious circle of spiralling inflation, which is not what the government wants. Thai farmers have for some decades been complaining that they get a pretty raw deal income-wise, and hearing that falangs, are getting paid even more than a Thai national effectively doing the same job, just inflames this dissent further.
Very interesting point of view. I am not qualified enough to say if this guess is correct or not. But it is very interesting. I would like to hear a qualified opinion about this.
Posted 2010-01-06 09:09:04
phuketrichard, on 2010-01-06 10:41:31, said: as long as tourism numbers continue to increase reagarless of the jetski scams, Tuk Tuk drivers actions in Phuket, Jewlery scams in Bangkok, taxi scams at airport. bad service on their national airlines etc etc.
Do you think they give a F#@K about a few hundred thousand, ( at MOST) legally working/retired farangs living here? 
There are scams on every corner, every venue, but the punters - read farangs still come
in their droves. The small wheel of the big machine still turns!
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