174 replies to this topic
Posted 2010-01-06 10:18:26
 WindyCity, on 2010-01-06 10:04:01, said:
johnswift1956, on 2010-01-06 07:11:06, said: Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country
You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into.....
Who says you can't? Why should there be a standard for retirement age. I worked hard for about 15 years, made a lot of money and have a monthly cash flow that would embarrass crown pensioners. I could retire at any age in Panama if I show a monthly income of $500 a month.
This is the usual "Thais running scared" mentality. The failure to recognize that there is more on the this rock in space than Thailand. Thailand is a perfect picture of xenophobia and they are just hurting themselves. Retirees plus working expats plus foreign tourists equal huge revenue for Thailand. They can't see passed their glasses perched on the ends of their little noses and will kill the goose that lays the golden egg. They equate revenue with the number of flights in and out of Thailand and fail to realize that foreigners also drop baht at 7-11, grocery stores, gas stations etc
They are too busy counting a few baht that is made in departure fees and hotel bookings and fail to focus on the much larger amount spent out and about in Thailand.
You can't teach the old elite anything. They know it all........ 
Of course that it why they are STILL nowhere near developed.
Now consider this:
- Who is running the country?
- What country is in the direct approach line?
- What is the national treat of that country?
- What might that mean for the gwai loo?
Posted 2010-01-06 10:25:45
1 post discussing moderation deleted.
Posted 2010-01-06 10:33:08
1 off topic post has been deleted.
Posted 2010-01-06 10:41:50
I would not jump to conclusion that work permit change means govt. wants to kick all farangs out of Thailand. I imagine the work permit change, which apparently no one is saying even what changes are, have something to do with safeguarding economy of Thai workers. Kicking farangs out would destroy economy of Thailand. The bottom line is work permit rules purpose is to help Thais make money. Kicking farangs out makes Thais lose money. So one thin g has nothing to do with the other. Unless you are in one of occupations affected by work permit change, I would not worry about it.
Posted 2010-01-06 10:48:52
time to pack... there is nothing left here for me to stay any longer. It's sure now: they simply hate us!
Posted 2010-01-06 10:51:45
Brunus, on 2010-01-06 06:42:56, said: DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 06:38:53, said: Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:
-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits
That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.
You forgot married people. Hopefully no crackdown on us 
IM sure soon the rules will change when getting married to a thai person, = it will cost you more money, ive been living in Thailand for 2yrs+ now bangkok & now phuket for the last yr, & all i seem to see now is that this country just wants more & more MONEY from us Farangs, i find it to expensive now to live here as im on a thai wage, im selling up & going back home like i to see lots & lots are doing the same, its cheaper for me to live in my own country = London UK, to come to thailand for a holiday is GT but when you live here its different in all ways. ive started to hate this place now, as i to find the people so RUDE & so DIRTY + its getting more & more dangerous as each day gos by, i dont even wear a watch when i go out these days as feared to get robbed
Posted 2010-01-06 10:54:09
johnswift1956, on 2010-01-06 07:11:06, said: Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.
Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.
The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.
Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.
What a snobbish, ill-researched and thoroughly empty comment!
Oh dear, oh dear! Did you ever consider, "Johnswift1956", that some people retire before the official retirement age because they can afford to? What you are saying is that "visas should be limited to the age of the expat's pension age". What rubbish! So if I have the same Net Worth as a 65 year old, wealthy enough, have earned my stripes, and just so happen to be in my 50's I don't deserve a Retirement Visa? It's a free World, don't you know. Why should I stay in UK if I am near retirement age and can afford to be elsewhere - namely Thailand?
Don't you know that many families depend on their 50-something year old breadwinner in order to sustain a reasonable lifestyle and that having a Retirement Visa makes life far easier for the breadwinner to stay here? What do we do, prohibit them from coming here to take care of their adopted family? Kick them out?
You say - "just because you have nothing to do in your own country"! What bol_lox is that! "Retire" means, if you check your thesaurus (you'd need a dictionary first, to check the meaning of THESAURUS) , that you "stop work", "take leave of work", "withdraw" etc. To be retired means that you are free to do as you wish, and that does not mean you have to stay in your own country of normal residence and domicile.
It means you don't HAVE to do anything at all. Look in the dictionary.
Furthermore, you say "It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever". I think you need to check the correct usage of the words "there, their and they're" for a start. At least most teachers have a command of the English Language. Teacher expats are here because they want to be here and maybe they've been stuck in a humdrum life in the UK for too long in the past, working with people like you. Maybe the teacher community over here decided to broaden their horizons and leave the grey faces, insular mentalities and nonsensical people behind in the UK. Why should they return? They pay taxes here and have their legal right to be here as much as anywhere else.
In addition you say "dare not go home". You think that there are loads of folk here because they remain outside the reach of the UK police? What a joke you are! Heard of Interpol have you? What a shortsighted take on life you have! It's serve you well to get some lessons in life after you've had your lessons on English Language.
I'm by no means done with you yet!
You go on to say "I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method". If reciprocation was the order of the day when considering the implications and effects of allowing an immigrant into any country, there would be no immigration law. Immigration is taken on a case-by-case basis with law used as a metaphorical "line in the sand". A certain former Prime Minister became an exile in the UK and bought a football club and a number of houses in the UK - can a foreigner do that here without circumventing or evading the rules of this land? No! So why are you staying what's good for us should be good for them? It has never been and never will be reciprocal, simply because reciprocal agreements do not always work. A slightly off-topic example, but for the purpose of demonstration, please read on:- If we could all buy land over here in Thailand, the locals would not be able to afford to buy land of their own - basic economics. As much as I dislike the fact that I can't own my own land over here I am fully aware of the reasons. Concerning immigration, maybe Thailand took a look at the UK's porous immigration laws, considered that in about 50 years the native British man will be a minority in his own country and thought "why the hel_l would we want to go down that road"! Reciprocation does not always work - even though in a rose-tinted fanciful way we'd all like it to work!
Sorry....no I’m not.....but your post has to get the award for "worst I’ve ever had the misfortune of reading".
I rest my case!
#83
thaibkk
Posted 2010-01-06 11:00:29
somebody posted earlier: prices of land skyrocket because the boyfriend or husband of thai girlfriend/wife is buying land and making it more expensive...
farang cannot buy land here anyway
what is keeping the poor farmers' daughter to catch one farang herself and extort him some money to buy land for mommy/daddy/sick buffalo ?
- my home country is taking in more illegal/refugies that i can support
- since the european comission crap took it headsquarters, natives had to move to other towns as price soared for normal people
- there was already a shortage of land to build new houses
- poor or rich, if you have money or get a loan from the bank, at least you can buy the overpriced land !!!
- it would be a big racist lawsuit that the landowner or governement would lose for sure if a foreigner could not buy a house/land (in my home country)
Edited by thaibkk, 2010-01-06 11:02:00.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:07:53
AAACEEE, on 2010-01-06 10:51:14, said: i live in phuket and maybe its only here but thai people only care about one thing MONEY i mean i love it here and its all great but some times it sickens me... farangs are treatet like shit and it pisses me off
It's not just Phuket, it's most places. Although i have never expected a 21 gun salute and a red carpet for being a farang, it would nice to have at least common courtesy here instead of race discrimination. How many times each day do i leave the house and try to get ripped off and treated like a scumbag? I don't even count anymore - i'm past caring and that is why i am out of this place in April. Eight years here have taken their toll!
You'd have thought Phuket Thai's would have learned that nothing lasts forever when the tsunami came and wreaked havoc, took away their livelihood and sent their life screaming back into the dark ages! But no, because they cannot see futher than their own noses. Live for today, mai-pen-rai! You can't change 1000's of years of racism or blatant disregard for all things foreign.
Even if you learn the language, as i have done, it makes no difference. It only serves to open your ears to the way in which the locals slag us off.
The sooner we realize this the better: - We'll never belong!
#85
thaibkk
Posted 2010-01-06 11:17:37
Me&MrsJones, on 2010-01-06 11:07:53, said: AAACEEE, on 2010-01-06 10:51:14, said: i live in phuket and maybe its only here but thai people only care about one thing MONEY i mean i love it here and its all great but some times it sickens me... farangs are treatet like shit and it pisses me off
It's not just Phuket, it's most places. Although i have never expected a 21 gun salute and a red carpet for being a farang, it would nice to have at least common courtesy here instead of race discrimination. How many times each day do i leave the house and try to get ripped off and treated like a scumbag? I don't even count anymore - i'm past caring and that is why i am out of this place in April. Eight years here have taken their toll!
You'd have thought Phuket Thai's would have learned that nothing lasts forever when the tsunami came and wreaked havoc, took away their livelihood and sent their life screaming back into the dark ages! But no, because they cannot see futher than their own noses. Live for today, mai-pen-rai! You can't change 1000's of years of racism or blatant disregard for all things foreign.
Even if you learn the language, as i have done, it makes no difference. It only serves to open your ears to the way in which the locals slag us off.
The sooner we realize this the better: - We'll never belong!
((edit))
((edit))at least most of us have money of our own and most of us do not steal/rob/ripp off locals as a living, do we ?
we do not lean on social security/welfare, as there is NONE ... not for us, anyway
Posted 2010-01-06 11:19:32
johnswift1956, on 2010-01-06 00:11:06, said: Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.
The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.
Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.
What utter rubbish, you cannot compare the state pension in the UK to private pension schemes anymore. I have Company pension plus 3 private pension schemes and all are geared to allow me to retire at 50 or 55. The pittance doled out by the government, I discounted that long ago. There are many people with private pnsions that would allow them to retire comfortably in their 40's.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:19:39
orosee, on 2010-01-06 07:22:12, said: Seriously, that list could have used some updating long ago. Most of the prohibited jobs are targeted at immigrants from Burma, Laos, Cambodia and China and largely concern lowly, menial or agricultural tasks. Time to add "Web Design", "Cold Calling" and "Loitering" to get back to reality.
Not at all feeling serious today.
And if I lose another stunning potential wife in a bar to yet another smooth-talking, young, handsome but ultimately low-income 'information architect', I really don't know what I can do since I haven't a clue about teaching and haven't got around being able to 'poot thai' after all these years. I guess I will just have to join the exodus to Cambodia.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:23:22
anais, on 2010-01-06 06:35:35, said: Sigh. Yet another obstacle for the young, the able-bodied, the bright who might, in spite of all reason, be interested in living in and building the country. Oh well. At least LOS will always have Nana and its ilk. Hope they can continue to sustain the country on prostitution ... the smart tourist money is going elsewhere.
Completely agree with you there mate. I mean why are they just soooo determined to make expats life hel_l out here?
I think I will soon have to rethink my position in Thailand aswell...
Posted 2010-01-06 11:25:54
Just my thoughts... The core issue is the world is over populated, there isnt enough resourses to maintain this growing population in universal comfort. It is understandable that governments and population wish to have control and benifit from the resourses of their own countires, and wish to limit the benifits that other nationalities get from them. Rather they would prefer to profit from these other nationalities. To see others come to Thaialnd and live comfortable lives, profit from businesses, while the local population have less comfortable lives makes for social unrest.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:33:51
Several off-topic/language posts removed. This is about legal work and changes that may be coming. It is not about bars.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:37:31
enemedin, on 2010-01-06 10:50:48, said: Footloose1949, on 2010-01-06 08:15:13, said: This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.
In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)
In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)
So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)
The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.
As you can well imagine, you then get a viscious circle of spiralling inflation, which is not what the government wants. Thai farmers have for some decades been complaining that they get a pretty raw deal income-wise, and hearing that falangs, are getting paid even more than a Thai national effectively doing the same job, just inflames this dissent further.
It is abvioud that the thais are changing and are opening their eyes too. Be prepared for big changes. even the ladies are changing, more demanding, more with their nose up. no matter how unwelcome we are becoming here in thailand, we will always keep on coming and we know why , how about telling the truth ? why we come here ? cos of the power of the pussxx..which attracts us all.. it is true that after a while living here , you get to the point where calm down is a must, but the new comers will always see thailand from that point of view ...
the money that farangs are putting in every year, will only increase the power of this country, to learn more and to be by themselves without the need of farangs , it is clear what will happes in a few years.. there will be only torists visa, and very very few controlled working permits and not many retirement visas.
You make some very good points here concerning the economic effects.
But you may want to consider that "doing the same job" and "doing the same job, but to a much higher standard" are not the same animals. My mate used to work at a top university in Thailand and he was saying that the staff in his office all taught English. They earned about 18,000 baht per month and were always moaning about why farangs are earning 3 times more. One day i was invited to a staff member's birthday party and i was appauled that the Thai teachers were allowed anywhere near a classroom to teach English - their level of English was pitiful. My mate said something along the lines of "and this is why they get paid a lot less than us".
This is what i mean by "doing the same job" and "doing the same job, but to a much higher standard". This is why most students at his University demanded to be taught by Native English Speakers. I don't mean to have a pop at the Thai locals who teach English here in Thailand but, from what i've seen, you all need to step up to plate and improve if you want to make more money. Cream rises to the top.
I'm sure if the Thais went to the UK and taught Thai they would be far more in demand than the British natives would be. Same thing innit! Plus they'd have human rights, minimum wage protection and anti-discrimination laws to serve.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:42:09
Why would they open up parasitic occupations like futures and derivatives trading and pawn shops? They'd be far better off opening up industries that generate wealth rather than redistribute it. Weird.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:43:03
johnswift1956, on 2010-01-06 07:11:06, said: Its about time the Thais were able to decide for themselves. I disagree to most of this and I have been married to a thai for 6 years.
Visas have been mis-used for many years. Retirement visas should be limited to the age of the expats pension age, eg UK at 65. You cannot be retired at 59, just escaping into another country for whatever reasons because you have nothing to do in your own country.
The other visas like teaching should be contracted for term times or for the academic year. It is strange that none of these teaching expat experts return to there country and sit in Thailand forever. Surely they go home to see they family or is it they dare not go home and there family have to come to Thailand to see them.
Also in the UK now we have gone to a points system for work permits. I dont see lots of Thais getting in to the UK through method. Why cannot Thais do the same and let people in on a similar system.
What rubbish you talk,who says you cant retire at 50 ,59 or 75 if you want ,i have been married to a thai for 16 years have a 15 year old son ,we have lived and worked in Britain and i semi retired at 55 at 60 i retired completely and came to Thailand with my familly . If you are rich enough retire when you like ,just because you cant why shouldnt we? lifes to short to waste it working if you dont have to.
By the way my sister in law and her husband (both Thai live and work in the UK without any problems.)
Posted 2010-01-06 11:49:45
crazygreg44, on 2010-01-06 10:01:50, said: Footloose1949, on 2010-01-06 09:15:13, said: This is just a guess, but you'll have to be patient and carefully read my suggestions below as to why this 'control' over Falangs being employed, running businesses and owning property in Thailand, is such an important issue to the Government.
In the countries falangs come from, there is a lot of ill-feeling about migrant workers because they are willing to do jobs for less than nationals do. (mainly willing to do this work because what 'we' pay is more than they would get in their own country.)
In Thailand, I would not mind betting that there is similar (concealed) dissent, but because falangs get paid considerably more than a Thai would, doing the same job. (The reason for this difference, may be because falangs aren't willing to apply for jobs in Thailand unless they are paid pretty much the same money as they would be paid in their own country.)
So you potentially end up with a situation where Thais start kicking up a stink about this inequality in pay. Regarding the ownership of land and businesses, you could end up with a similar situation whereby Thais can no longer afford to buy land or set up businesses (because falangs have more money & capital to play around with than Thais)
The consequences on the Thai economy, could be quite serious, causing rampant pay increases and yet making the farm workers and owners (who are already making hardly any money) even poorer by comparison. This leads to farmers leaving the land for jobs in the cities, and then you haven't enough food being produced, unless some form of (very expensive) farming subsidies are paid to these people so that they also have a commersuately increased standard of living too.
How true ! I was on the farm of my girlfriend a few times last year and over New Year. She spoke of the land price around her farm going up soaringly high. The reason , as she pointed out, was that some farang who have girlfriends or spouses in this region had given them enough money to buy up all farming land from those willing to sell. They have almost TRIPLED the price per Rai in the recent 3 years by doing so !
This makes it even harder for farm helps or existing farmers to add up to their property or lease it. Also makes it far more impossible for anyone to save up enough money to buy his family a garden big enough to feed them. Subsequently, the Farang support of their GF's is increasing the hatred and helplessness they feel for us !
It also makes the country worth more.. higher land prices, more value of the country, more expensive food prices, employers have to pay their workers more, the overall worth of the baht goes up, countries GDP measured in Dollars.. increases. Employers can always find a way to give their employees enough to eat
Studied A level economics many years ago LOL.. just something that stands out. Maybe i am missing the point
Edited by CrossBones, 2010-01-06 11:51:14.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:52:22
I have said it before and I say it again, Who in the right mind would want to work in this country.
If you dont have funds to live here , go back home and work and come back when you have the money.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:53:24
Does anyone know what the thais are implementing on the visa changes? Whats changes are proposed? Seems nobody as answered the original topic here.
Posted 2010-01-06 11:56:15
? Seems nobody as answered the original topic here. Unquote
Who cares what they do with work permit, retire and you dont have to work. 
Posted 2010-01-06 11:58:14
DegenFarang, on 2010-01-06 00:38:53, said: Pretty slim on the details and exactly what types of work will be restricted, however the pattern that is emerging right now is clear - we are becoming increasingly unwelcome in this country. Within the past couple of months crackdowns have occurred on:
-ED Visa's from Thai Language Schools (testing of Thai speaking ability)
-Tourist Visa's (people extending multiple times in a row)
-Now Work Permits
That covers every type of expat I'm aware of other than Investment Visa's and Retieree's - and possibly those types have had crackdowns as well, or will have them soon.
So what's the f'n deal here? Are they trying to expel all Farang or only a particular type? I think it may be possible the overall goal is to drive unskilled and illegal workers from the country - as in lower class Farang, leaching off of an already poor country. That would make sense. It would not make sense if they just want us all gone - a form of ethnic cleansing. Bad for their country in the long run if you ask me.
unskilled/illegal workers/lower class/ leaching? what offensive statements
Posted 2010-01-06 11:59:22
Many different points of view here, which is nice.
The idea of restricting certain occupations because the Thais could do them seems like a good one. But in practice, there simply aren't enough educated Thais who can do many, even simple, jobs properly. For example, almost all my Thai friends have asked me to come to fix their internet, usually TOT, because they have had the TOT engineers living there for weeks poking buttons but can't get anything to work. There is no understanding. Air conditioner engineers can't get them working properly and leave half the house destroyed when they've finished. Builders make cowsheds, not houses. Mechanics can't read English, or can't read, and just smash out the dashboard of your brand new Mercedes with a hammer, and stick it back in with Mastic. Machinery and cars are assembled with no grease. Electrical installations are lethal. The list goes on and on. Most Thais simply do not know how to do a good job. Far from leeching off the country, foreigners can contribute so much to keep things running.
Having foreigners in Thailand to train them ABSOLUTELY FREE OF CHARGE could be the most wonderful opportunity for this country. It is clear that the educational system will take a generation or two to get any better, because the teachers too, don't know anything.
This is based on the frustration felt not only by us foreigners, but also my Thai friends, when they are unable to get a job done.
Regarding Tesco Lotus, Carrefours etc. - does anyone remember what it was like before they arrived here? If you wanted to make a simple meal, you would traipse around several mom and pop shops to find the ingredients, only to find they all sold the same mama noodles, crisps, and you would come home with nothing to eat. My wife used to get so angry she sulked for days. If you were not lucky enough to have a market nearby, you were stuffed. The supermarkets changed all that. Now even the mom and pop stores buy their supplies from the supermarkets, and are able to stock a bigger range of goods. The other thing that has changed is that these stores offer service! Faulty goods or even goods that you don't like will be exchanged or money refunded. Prior to this, everyone was just told to f*** off. I don't know a single Thai who does not think things changed very much for the better.
Times have changed, and you cannot turn back the clock.
Edited by stolidfeline, 2010-01-06 12:04:35.
Posted 2010-01-06 12:00:40
SM7WGP, on 2010-01-06 05:52:22, said: I have said it before and I say it again, Who in the right mind would want to work in this country.
If you dont have funds to live here , go back home and work and come back when you have the money.
a job here even at the basic required wage by the labour office can offer a standard of living greater than that at home, and in a considerably better climate.
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