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[momentumwaves]

DocHolliday, on 2010-01-23 11:38:57, said:

is that the first step to a civil war? Army fight against Army?

Yes, I do believe that this is the second phase of the emerging civil war.

Edited by momentumwaves, 2010-01-23 13:36:22.

[sinplyred]

Another blow for tourism in the land of smiles (not)

[scania]

This is not going to help Taksin in any way. I´m not with him, not against him but sure this wont help.

[h90]

ballpoint, on 2010-01-23 11:32:50, said:

Treason.
Firing squad.
End of.

No, mental check and than in a nice soft locked room in a hospital which is specialized on dangerous customer.

[George4]

DocHolliday, on 2010-01-23 11:38:57, said:

is that the first step to a civil war? Army fight against Army?

If it is you and Wyatt go ahead and I'll catch up with you later

This guy sounds like he has a death wish and I'm surprised Thailand allows comments like this to reach the newspapers.

Can just imagine the potential tourist's reaction to this breaking news.

[Insight]

lensta, on 2010-01-23 13:30:58, said:

mythBuster, on 2010-01-23 12:58:33, said:

This is a Nation article so take it with some salt. The Nation is famous for setting up the elite against the people. Just to keep out of the arms of the NCC the directors and owners have chosen to sell their sole and independence to the yellow shirts. That is why you do not find any critical note towards courts who apply double standards and no critical note towards people like Prem, Surayud or others.
I suppose that all people who have a democratic mind and who love freedom of speech are at war with the military. Not necessarily a war in which people get killed but at least a intellectual war. It is unforgiving and unacceptable that an institution that should work for the people grabbed power more than the military in any given African banana republic did. Worse it is always to un-seed the people elected by the poor and it seems always to benefit the rich and especially the Chinese Thai minority.

Agreed, I smell a rat. As the time draws closer for the reds to start their rallies and a decision on Thaksins court case, I think the
government and their supporters will use anything to discredit the reds and Thaksin, even by linking a nut case like this guy to the reds.
I wounder if the reds will deny he is now "a leader" if not I could change my opinion.

Not long ago in a country not far away...

Attached Files

•  image001rn.jpg   79.99K   49 downloads

[deanosan3]

let's have it. People are kickin off all over the world. It seems people have had enough of centralised power. I still dislike Thaksin but it's either entrenched power and corruption or give the new guy a chance at power and corruption.

[WAERTH]

I just confirmed with some Thai friends. According to them Seh Daeng used the word "songkram" (war) on the militairy ....... the guy is an idiot!

W

[HowardV]

All the power to him, I say.  

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin.  Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about?  The media?  The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news.  Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.  

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about.  Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts.  The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda.  You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies.  So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.  

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism.  They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand.  They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate.  They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country.  These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it.  It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt.  They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves.   But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle.  It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.  

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies.  Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence.   And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports.  That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand.  They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them.  They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.  

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason.  Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years.  Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction.  Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point.  There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally.  The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws.  I say go Red shirts.  Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

[h90]

jayboy, on 2010-01-23 12:42:25, said:

way2muchcoffee, on 2010-01-23 05:23:15, said:

Actually the overthrow of the violent and corrupt dictator Thaksin was welcomed, judging by the immediate reaction of the population.

There is no treason in a non-violent coup which overthrows a corrupt dictatorship, unless of course the corrupt dictator wins.

Many would dispute your claim the coup was welcomed by most Thais, but in any case it's completely irrelevant whether it was welcomed or not.

Your second assertion is even more absurd.Again whether the coup was violent or not is irrelevant (although the threat of violence is always implicit).The question is whether the government overthrown by the junta was constitutionally legitimate or not, not whether it was led by a "corrupt dictator" in your usage or the nation's saviour as many others would have it.As a matter of fact in an assessment of Thaksin, I lean more towards your description but again that's completely irrelevant.

The fact that these criminals in a panicky and cowardly way procured post facto pardons for themselves demonstrates that they at least knew very clearly they had committed treason.

Please learn history.
A coup is always legal when the coupmaker wins. All western democracys came came from coups or similar uprisings. Else we would be all in absolute monarchies.
Braking the constitution? At this time the Thaksin government was already complete illegal and outside of the constitution. They weren't elected at all as the requirements of the constitution were not fulfilled, if you remember the mess: elections elections elections and still not enough MPs to fill the parliament....well just go ahead with less than necessary.......
You could even argue that there was no legal government, so where is the coup?

[zakk9]

CockneyGit, on 2010-01-23 06:17:11, said:

Civil War comes to Thailand..?? Brilliant. Another simply EXCELLENT way to highlight the country around the world!

Bye-bye tourists for another season..!!!

R.I.P Thailand

No, no... they'll just make Thailand the Civil War hub of Asia, with annual Civil War Festivals, including war games, beauty contests, heavy drinking, beauty contests, prayers, drunk teenagers raving around on Sukhumvit... hey wait.... they have that already, don't they? Maybe he's only preparing for Songkran.

On a more serious note: Nutcases like him should always be taken seriously. There are enough bored, young men in this country to start a civil war any time. If they are allowed to rape and pillage at will, you could easily gather a few hundred thousand.

[chutai]

#63

Actually a very good post and mostly spot-on.

[jayboy]

h90, on 2010-01-23 06:44:22, said:

Please learn history.


All western democracys came came from coups or similar uprisings. Else we would be all in absolute monarchies.

Hmm, a follower of Acharn Giles.Who would have thought it?

[pedro01]

"I appointed myself a leader of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship"

How very democratic.

[Japhrodisiac]

Why is it that terrorists can threaten people and indeed incite violence against the government, disrupt the public peace and infrastructure (both Red and Yellow) and nothing is done about it? Normal everyday Thais are having a hard go of things, with a higher cost of living and many living on less money these days, and yet terrorists can run free and do whatever they want? Very sad

[MegaRanter]

jayboy, on 2010-01-23 13:50:03, said:

h90, on 2010-01-23 06:44:22, said:

Please learn history.


All western democracys came came from coups or similar uprisings. Else we would be all in absolute monarchies.

Hmm, a follower of Acharn Giles.Who would have thought it?

Civil wars do not need major declarations to take off, just some bruised egos with access to some arms, while the rest of the people are made to see reason why it was neccesary.


No way this is going to be of any good to the people of the southern thailand.

[Xangsamhua]

billyfix, on 2010-01-23 13:40:31, said:

bubba, on 2010-01-23 12:39:41, said:

Wow did you see his website? What a nutcase!

Wow, my thai not so good but seems like this qoute is strange. From his website under one picture which shows new party office in Sanam Luang.

ที่ทำการพรรค ขัตติยะธรรม แห่งแรก  ไม่ใช่พรรค ”กระยาจก” แต่เป็นจุดขายที่ ดีที่สุด  กับพรรคที่ไม่มีทุนรอน  ต้องอาศัยรากหญ้า แต่พรรคนาซีของ เยอรมัน  ก็เริ่มต้นทำให้ประเทศใหญ่ยิ่งใหญ่ก็แบบนี้

I believe he says his new party doesn't have much capital; it depends on the working people, but this is how the Nazi Party in Germany began and made Germany big and powerful.

[animatic]

hammered, on 2010-01-23 12:42:22, said:

Is he a nutjob? Is he serious? Or both?

I would say both fits close enough.

Yes, this is the death knell for most of The Red Shirt claims to being Democracy advocates,
IF they acknowledge this as part of their group. All pretense would be shot then.
Will Veera and Jatuporno and the other red Leaders  sign on for this?

Sae Dung is clearly in the Jakrapob corner and having just gone to meet Thaksin in Cambodia
against regulations, this squarely puts Thaksin in the war against the Army camp.
We expected the gloves to come off, and this is on schedule for the festivities to come.

This also calls into consideration Thaksins choices of who he will ally with in his quest...
A high percentage are not looking at Thailands best interests as part of their world view,
but only their advancement in a Thaksin controlled world, since they have burnt their bridges to the real world.

[Garry9999]

chutai, on 2010-01-23 13:47:38, said:

#63

Actually a very good post and mostly spot-on.

Agreed, excellent post.

[lopburi3]

A reminder that English is the only language allowed in posts outside of the language forum and please respect the rules on Royal Family.  Posts have been removed.

[robertson468]

This is another of many strategies to bring pressure to bear on the Government to destabalise it, which can be the only reason for announcing the intent.  Otherwise it would have been kept a close guarded secret until the attack is launched, thereby maintaining the element of surprise.  If the former is the casde perhaps "The General (on behalf of Tacki)" is not quite the psycho we think, although he is exposing himself to some fairly serious criminal charges.

[rayw]

Just shows how pathetic this idiot guy is, a stupid low grade bully boy by the sound of it, and those of the Red Shirts are not much better who are supporting him.  All due to that corrupt bastard Thaksin who flies around the world in his private jet looking and acting like a prat, and his primary (only) interest is to preserve his mainly ill gotten billions, while 90% of the Thai people stay poor. He should instead, to deserve any support at all, be putting his heart into working for the genuine good of the ordinary Thai people and the well being of this country but he is blatantly doing the complete opposite for sure.  I cannot see why everyone does not see what he is doing, it is to me and most of us here so so obvious and a no brainer, anyone with an IQ over 80 should be able to see that.  So now lets hopefully have some faith that the Thai people will see through just what Thaksin is all about, i.e. selfish corrupt greed and work to support his arrest and return to Thailand to serve his jail sentence he was justly and properly sentenced to.  

Okay I am just a guest retired and living here, but I do care about this country where i have chosen to live and I do care about the ordinary majority of Jai Dee Thai people, and indeed why should I not do so.   I hope the Thai people in general can now knuckle down and forget Red and Yellow shirts and get behind a fair and sound PM Abhist for now until proper and fair elections can be called.  I do honestly believe Abhist is not a corrupt man, he is obviously intelligent and well educated and he does have this country's well being at heart, which is the complete opposite of Thaksin of that I have absolutely no doubt.  I actually do not care what political style of government get elected in (i.e. Socialist, Capitalist or Centre) though it should be a moderate and fair close to centre based government to get Thailand fully up on its feet.  What IS important is that we get a Government of the people, that cares for the people, that is against all corruption and is honestly democratically elected.  Idealistic maybe but that is at least what Thailand should be striving for and not supporting corrupt money crazed despot exiles who we really do not need here any more.  Is this achievable well we as guests have to sit and watch and see what transpires.

[Jingthing]

Garry9999, on 2010-01-23 13:57:29, said:

chutai, on 2010-01-23 13:47:38, said:

#63

Actually a very good post and mostly spot-on.

Agreed, excellent post.

To support the red shirts is to support Thaksin. Westerners would be more open to some of the messages of the red shirts the moment they totally divorce themselves from Thaksin. So the reds are not xenophobic and the yellows are? I say both are. The reds attacked the international Asean conference shutting it down and shut down the gay political event in Chiang Mai (because it did not reflect traditional Lanna values) and Thaksin himself originally ruled under the Thai Love Thai party which is a quite xenophobic moniker, wouldn't you agree. I found your post pure propaganda. Truth Today is anything but. The other falsehood you perpetuate is that opposing the red Thaksinistas equals support for the yellows. Wrong. Totally wrong.

Edited by Jingthing, 2010-01-23 14:04:18.

[wolf5370]

HowardV, on 2010-01-23 13:41:22, said:

All the power to him, I say.

I support the red shirts' cause, though I wish they'd chosen a better mascot than Thaksin. Where do all you foreigners get your information from as to what the red shirts are about vs. what the yellow shirts are about? The media? The English-print media in Thailand hates Thaksin and the red shirts, so you're naturally going to see the yellow shirts' press releases being re-printed as news. Pick up a copy of Truth for Today or something and read one of the articles in English in the back -- you might be surprised to find what they are saying.

I see and hear a lot of comments from foreigners who don't really know what the red shirts are angry about. Your problem is that many of you don't speak Thai well, don't read or write Thai, and the Thais who can speak English are mostly yellow shirts. The red shirts aren't as educated and don't speak English as well, so you're not hearing their side accurately because it's being filtered to you through the intellectual elite and their agenda. You get to hear what the red shirts are about from their enemies. So many foreigners support the yellow shirts not fully realizing that the yellow shirts are majorly xenophobic while the red shirts welcome international influence and development.

The yellow shirts are the old rule aristocracy, an outdated form of rule based on class elitism. They do not represent the best for all of Thailand, but for a sector of Thailand. They are the educated elite who would like to keep the classes separate. They are the party who suggested giving more weight to votes from people registered in Bangkok than people living in rural areas, simply on the basis that they feel they are more educated and therefore more qualified to run the country. These people are often as white as white gets because they haven't worked a day in their life, they don't know what manual labor is, can't even appreciate it. It is these types who have Burmese maids living in the backs of their homes without even the slightest tinge of guilt. They actually think they're being generous to their house slaves. But it is the same policies of the yellow shirts which has made visas and work permits and foreigners being in Thailand such a nuisance and a hassle. It is their fear of "losing their country" to outsiders through economic means (not political) that fuels their decisions.

There has been a 60-year campaign to unite people over nationalistic pride even when they don't see eye-to-eye politically, but unfortunately what have been propagated as national values for all Thais are often veiled agendas aimed at pushing the aristocratic elite's xenophobic policies. Self-sufficiency economy is a way of saying let's retain economic control of our country by limiting outside influence. And don't forget it was the yellow shirts -- peaceful or not -- who shut down the airports. That should tell you something about how they view the international community and its role in Thailand. They don't much care for the foreigners in their country--they don't appreciate them, they don't want them. They tolerate them because they want their money, but they want to completely control it so that the foreigners become financial cashcows while Thais direct the money flow.

Red shirts are angry for a very good reason. Their country is not a democracy and has not been for at least four years. Democracy is the great equalizer to the lower classes, to the poor, to the underprivileged and uneducated -- it gives them a voice for change in their direction. Whether Thaksin was a bad guy or not is a moot point. There should have been due process -- all of the investigations which have come up after the coup should have been done through proper channels to oust him legally. The coup leaders have eroded their own legal and political system, and their political tactics have more to do with the cult of personality than with infrastructure, systems or laws. I say go Red shirts. Get your country back, get your democracy back, get your hope and your freedom back, get your opportunity back.

While I agree with practically everything you say here, I don't think this particular guy or his threats are much help to 'the cause'. How many of those soldier boys come from Yellow Shirt families (where their naes even in the lottery bin?). The red shirts (hate that name too) really need to rally behind a decent leader, not a wanted ex-PM who no one seriously belives is in it for Thailand, and not some self appointed warlord either. There must be someone in their camp thay can be brought to the fore wiothout the baggage of corruption that can make it a real force to be reckonedwith (and I mean political not militarial).

[rayw]

Xangsamhua, on 2010-01-23 13:56:05, said:

billyfix, on 2010-01-23 13:40:31, said:

bubba, on 2010-01-23 12:39:41, said:

Wow did you see his website? What a nutcase!

Wow, my thai not so good but seems like this qoute is strange. From his website under one picture which shows new party office in Sanam Luang.

ที่ทำการพรรค ขัตติยะธรรม แห่งแรก  ไม่ใช่พรรค ”กระยาจก” แต่เป็นจุดขายที่ ดีที่สุด  กับพรรคที่ไม่มีทุนรอน  ต้องอาศัยรากหญ้า แต่พรรคนาซีของ เยอรมัน  ก็เริ่มต้นทำให้ประเทศใหญ่ยิ่งใหญ่ก็แบบนี้

I believe he says his new party doesn't have much capital; it depends on the working people, but this is how the Nazi Party in Germany began and made Germany big and powerful.

......and evil and corrupt, causing the death and suffering of millions.  So yes indeed we as caring honest folk all agree we do not want that here.  What Thailand now needs desperately is a non Elitist ruling class Government and a Government not run by bully boy corrupt despots but a Government honestly democratically elected by the people with externally independently monitored elections with no vote buying, poll rigging etc so the result is acceptable and sustainable by all honest Thai folk.  No need then for fighting and wars as those are the actions of spoiled children who cannot get their own way.  You DO though need educated people to run a country as it does require a lot of intellectual skill to do so, but not those elitist types that want to continue to suppress the poor for their own ends. Get rid of the misguided support for Thaksin and his corrupt cronies, and get rid of bully boy self elected violently angry leaders and the Red Shirts would get much more support.

Edited by rayw, 2010-01-23 14:19:32.
remove Thai language - lopburi3