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[Somrak]

aussiemarkinthai...: "Thailand is being governed by aparty with no mandate by the people. Tis is clearly a more important issue. "

Where do you have this information from?
Please, inform yourself about the electoral system here in Thailand before you writh things they are not true!

[Somrak]

aussiemarkinthai...: "Thailand is being governed by aparty with no mandate by the people. Tis is clearly a more important issue. "

Where do you have this information from?
Please, inform yourself about the electoral system here in Thailand before you writh things they are not true!

[debcmai]

"Against the electoral majority" -- you mean: against the people who sold votes plus were enticed with the help of a massive populist marketing machine of a guy with more money, greed & brains than "the other side"?

The core problem is that lots of (unfortunately) badly educated people in the North-East, with a cleverly impressed "view of the situation", want to re-instate a fugitive criminal. Re criminal: that's not yellow lore; that's what the courts say. All that they get to see is that the "pujay ban" received x amount of Baht from Mr. Taksin (actually: not from his good-heart stash of cash, but from taxpayer's money...), which might and might not have trickled down to them. So Mr. T. must be the good guy, and all others are just rich swindlers trying to get their mittens on Mr. T.'s cash -- right?

When farangs attend red rallies, I'm sure that there's a lot of back slapping. After all, it's viewed as a gesture of sympathy for their cause. And farangs do have a high standing with the country folks, sometimes undeservedly so...

Putting myself in a rice farmer's shoes ( as if you would....you would not last one day in their shoes)

Wow.  You certainly seem to have this whole thing figured out....except for the fact that the folks in Isaan and the North actually DID vote for the red side, not once, not twice but 3 times, once for the recently departed Samak.   I am so completely sick of all this song and dance about 'vote buying' when we know that BOTH sides of done that historically and usually a miniscule amt. ( 100 baht frm what my Thai friends told me at the time of that election) and I am telling you, that if they genuinely did NOT want Mr. Taksin in office, he could have handed out more, they would have taken it, gone in the voting booth and voted for whomever they daggoned pleased, because this is Thailand and anyone who is stupid enough to hand them money to do something out of eyesight deserves what they get.  No.  The good, as YOU point out undereducated, as I emphasis NOT STUPID folks of the more rural regions voted for Thaksin because he is who they wanted to lead this country, whether you YELLOW P flipping AD supporters can ever figure it out or not.  They got textbooks for their children, a high school teaching program was being added to universities so that every Thai student was going to be ble to attend K-12 free....not only those who could afford it they way it is now and they way it has always been.  Shame on you yellows!  You block any real development or help trickling in to the parts of the country which most need it, heaping up for yourselves benefits and insuring low income domestic and construction workers for all your homes and developments, not only for you, but your children and your children's children. I personally believe the elite in BKK are afraid of a fully    educated Isaan...who will fully wake up and realize the raw end of the stick they have been dealt time and time again. I have been working in Isaan for 8 years and I am horrified by the crumbs ( at least in the educational system) that are thrown their way.  We will see.  If they get their million in their demonstration, maybe that will make folks on this forum sit up and pay attention to what they are saying.  To repeated say that the only reason they voted for Thaksin was the paltry handout on election day, is nothing but an insult.  Sick of hearing it. and it is becoming increasingly a feeble excuse.

[ballpoint]

debcmai, on 2010-02-11 13:23:52, said:

I have been working in Isaan for 8 years and I am horrified by the crumbs ( at least in the educational system) that are thrown their way.

Really?  And you are aware that for 5 of those 8 years Thaksin was in charge?  You are aware that, according to the world bank's Nov 2005 report on Thailand, the government spent on Isaan, including education and transport, an average of 30% of what it did on central and northern Thailand?  Where were all the pro Thaksin, pro education for the masses voices then?  You are aware that many in Isaan voted for the CTP, a party that famously split from the TRT coalition in 2006 and joined the Democrats in the election boycot?  You are aware that many voted for the same CTP in 2007 (the distant third most popular party), and it was their joining the PPP that helped give them the mandate to govern?  Surely, voters would have expected the CTP not to join up with Thaksin's man, based on their previous actions and statements made by their leader, Banharn?  Surely they were deceived by him?   Thaksin had no interest in educating Isaan.  He had the popular politicians in his pocket, so why should he?  It is only now, that many of those politicians have linked up with the Democrats, that we see sour grapes from those who remained silent when Thaksin used the poorly educated to his advantage.

[Siripon]

debcmai, on 2010-02-11 13:23:52, said:

"Against the electoral majority" -- you mean: against the people who sold votes plus were enticed with the help of a massive populist marketing machine of a guy with more money, greed & brains than "the other side"?

The core problem is that lots of (unfortunately) badly educated people in the North-East, with a cleverly impressed "view of the situation", want to re-instate a fugitive criminal. Re criminal: that's not yellow lore; that's what the courts say. All that they get to see is that the "pujay ban" received x amount of Baht from Mr. Taksin (actually: not from his good-heart stash of cash, but from taxpayer's money...), which might and might not have trickled down to them. So Mr. T. must be the good guy, and all others are just rich swindlers trying to get their mittens on Mr. T.'s cash -- right?

When farangs attend red rallies, I'm sure that there's a lot of back slapping. After all, it's viewed as a gesture of sympathy for their cause. And farangs do have a high standing with the country folks, sometimes undeservedly so...

Putting myself in a rice farmer's shoes ( as if you would....you would not last one day in their shoes)

Wow.  You certainly seem to have this whole thing figured out....except for the fact that the folks in Isaan and the North actually DID vote for the red side, not once, not twice but 3 times, once for the recently departed Samak.   I am so completely sick of all this song and dance about 'vote buying' when we know that BOTH sides of done that historically and usually a miniscule amt. ( 100 baht frm what my Thai friends told me at the time of that election) and I am telling you, that if they genuinely did NOT want Mr. Taksin in office, he could have handed out more, they would have taken it, gone in the voting booth and voted for whomever they daggoned pleased, because this is Thailand and anyone who is stupid enough to hand them money to do something out of eyesight deserves what they get.  No.  The good, as YOU point out undereducated, as I emphasis NOT STUPID folks of the more rural regions voted for Thaksin because he is who they wanted to lead this country, whether you YELLOW P flipping AD supporters can ever figure it out or not.  They got textbooks for their children, a high school teaching program was being added to universities so that every Thai student was going to be ble to attend K-12 free....not only those who could afford it they way it is now and they way it has always been.  Shame on you yellows!  You block any real development or help trickling in to the parts of the country which most need it, heaping up for yourselves benefits and insuring low income domestic and construction workers for all your homes and developments, not only for you, but your children and your children's children. I personally believe the elite in BKK are afraid of a fully    educated Isaan...who will fully wake up and realize the raw end of the stick they have been dealt time and time again. I have been working in Isaan for 8 years and I am horrified by the crumbs ( at least in the educational system) that are thrown their way.  We will see.  If they get their million in their demonstration, maybe that will make folks on this forum sit up and pay attention to what they are saying.  To repeated say that the only reason they voted for Thaksin was the paltry handout on election day, is nothing but an insult.  Sick of hearing it. and it is becoming increasingly a feeble excuse.

Jurin  Laksanawisit from the Democrats did more for education over the last year than Thaksin ever did with 15 years free education,Tutor channel, free university education for the disabled and reform of the syllabus and teachers.

[debcmai]

ballpoint, on 2010-02-11 14:20:45, said:

debcmai, on 2010-02-11 13:23:52, said:

I have been working in Isaan for 8 years and I am horrified by the crumbs ( at least in the educational system) that are thrown their way.

Really? And you are aware that for 5 of those 8 years Thaksin was in charge? You are aware that, according to the world bank's Nov 2005 report on Thailand, the government spent on Isaan, including education and transport, an average of 30% of what it did on central and northern Thailand? Where were all the pro Thaksin, pro education for the masses voices then? You are aware that many in Isaan voted for the CTP, a party that famously split from the TRT coalition in 2006 and joined the Democrats in the election boycot? You are aware that many voted for the same CTP in 2007 (the distant third most popular party), and it was their joining the PPP that helped give them the mandate to govern? Surely, voters would have expected the CTP not to join up with Thaksin's man, based on their previous actions and statements made by their leader, Banharn? Surely they were deceived by him? Thaksin had no interest in educating Isaan. He had the popular politicians in his pocket, so why should he? It is only now, that many of those politicians have linked up with the Democrats, that we see sour grapes from those who remained silent when Thaksin used the poorly educated to his advantage.

Aware of all of that....also know tht our good friends in education, hard working Thai teachers, saw their students getting benefits, books materials for the first time in 20 years. I am no fool and am certainly not a personal fan of the man T....however I will say that he was the first to actually deliver on promises.  I also personally know of professors in the universities working double time to prepare high school teachers for the new, public, full to 12th grade education system.  Not preparing anymore...no one is even talking much about it. Forgotten. I will say it again.  The 'HI SO" in BKK were scared to death they won't be able to find hard working and nearly illiterate maids any more.  I am not advocating any kind of violence, by the way...but if you and your friends keep patronizing the 'poor, undereducated' who don't know right from wrong according to you...if you only could know how deeply insulting your attitude is.   

[debcmai]

Siripon, on 2010-02-11 15:53:48, said:

debcmai, on 2010-02-11 13:23:52, said:

"Against the electoral majority" -- you mean: against the people who sold votes plus were enticed with the help of a massive populist marketing machine of a guy with more money, greed & brains than "the other side"?

The core problem is that lots of (unfortunately) badly educated people in the North-East, with a cleverly impressed "view of the situation", want to re-instate a fugitive criminal. Re criminal: that's not yellow lore; that's what the courts say. All that they get to see is that the "pujay ban" received x amount of Baht from Mr. Taksin (actually: not from his good-heart stash of cash, but from taxpayer's money...), which might and might not have trickled down to them. So Mr. T. must be the good guy, and all others are just rich swindlers trying to get their mittens on Mr. T.'s cash -- right?

When farangs attend red rallies, I'm sure that there's a lot of back slapping. After all, it's viewed as a gesture of sympathy for their cause. And farangs do have a high standing with the country folks, sometimes undeservedly so...

Putting myself in a rice farmer's shoes ( as if you would....you would not last one day in their shoes)

Wow. You certainly seem to have this whole thing figured out....except for the fact that the folks in Isaan and the North actually DID vote for the red side, not once, not twice but 3 times, once for the recently departed Samak. I am so completely sick of all this song and dance about 'vote buying' when we know that BOTH sides of done that historically and usually a miniscule amt. ( 100 baht frm what my Thai friends told me at the time of that election) and I am telling you, that if they genuinely did NOT want Mr. Taksin in office, he could have handed out more, they would have taken it, gone in the voting booth and voted for whomever they daggoned pleased, because this is Thailand and anyone who is stupid enough to hand them money to do something out of eyesight deserves what they get. No. The good, as YOU point out undereducated, as I emphasis NOT STUPID folks of the more rural regions voted for Thaksin because he is who they wanted to lead this country, whether you YELLOW P flipping AD supporters can ever figure it out or not. They got textbooks for their children, a high school teaching program was being added to universities so that every Thai student was going to be ble to attend K-12 free....not only those who could afford it they way it is now and they way it has always been. Shame on you yellows! You block any real development or help trickling in to the parts of the country which most need it, heaping up for yourselves benefits and insuring low income domestic and construction workers for all your homes and developments, not only for you, but your children and your children's children. I personally believe the elite in BKK are afraid of a fully    educated Isaan...who will fully wake up and realize the raw end of the stick they have been dealt time and time again. I have been working in Isaan for 8 years and I am horrified by the crumbs ( at least in the educational system) that are thrown their way. We will see. If they get their million in their demonstration, maybe that will make folks on this forum sit up and pay attention to what they are saying. To repeated say that the only reason they voted for Thaksin was the paltry handout on election day, is nothing but an insult. Sick of hearing it. and it is becoming increasingly a feeble excuse.

Jurin Laksanawisit from the Democrats did more for education over the last year than Thaksin ever did with 15 years free education,Tutor channel, free university education for the disabled and reform of the syllabus and teachers.

Those are all wonderful and I do know of people who are benefitting.  But, I also see what has become of so many kids who are forced to leave school and work at 13 and 14...also the condition of some of the local schools, were the emphasis is mostly on music and dance.  I don't have all the answers and sorry if I am coming off that way.  By the way, I am more angry at the PAD who never seem to get in trouble no matter what they do.  But this poor country is so deeply divided...not sure how this will all turn out....

[ballpoint]

debcmai, on 2010-02-11 22:56:35, said:

Aware of all of that....also know tht our good friends in education, hard working Thai teachers, saw their students getting benefits, books materials for the first time in 20 years. I am no fool and am certainly not a personal fan of the man T....however I will say that he was the first to actually deliver on promises. I also personally know of professors in the universities working double time to prepare high school teachers for the new, public, full to 12th grade education system. Not preparing anymore...no one is even talking much about it. Forgotten. I will say it again. The 'HI SO" in BKK were scared to death they won't be able to find hard working and nearly illiterate maids any more. I am not advocating any kind of violence, by the way...but if you and your friends keep patronizing the 'poor, undereducated' who don't know right from wrong according to you...if you only could know how deeply insulting your attitude is.

No, the difference between me and you, and your ilk, is that I see, and have posted many times on many threads, the shameful acts of all Thai governments regarding the education of the poor, whereas you whitewash over the Thaksin years as some golden era of education, when it has been proven by the world bank that his government spent the same on Isaan education as previous ones, which was about 30% of what it spent on other regions.  The only real patronising of the poor that is going on is the shameful way that the pro Thaksin crowd keep bringing them up to try and score political points, along with the Rohingya, the Karen and the Hmong.  If you care to do some research, much of Isaan has been "ruled" by the same electoral blocks of MP all the way back to the Prem government.  Only the party names have changed.  Thaksin did nothing to change this.  In fact, he profited by it by buying up entire political parties with pretty much guaranteed seats in Isaan.  It was never in his interest to educate the people, then they might have started thinking about just how little the people they continually elected into parliament were doing for them.  Buying books and making students spend 12 years at school is not a guarantee of better education, especially when the rest of the system remains exactly the same with teachers more interested in making money out of "special" lessons after school to those who can pay, and rote learning being the main teaching method.  It's just another example of Thaksin doing the showy stuff, making a big splash but with very few real ripples.  Smoke and mirrors, how the man operated.