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[guzzi850m2]

Hi corkman,

I can understand you are confused, so was I when I were out shopping for a car (not new).

Regarding safety, if you buy one of the top models they will have double airbags which I think is a must.

In your last post you mention 4 cars, 2 Honda's and 2 Toyota's.

Well these car are made here which made they easy and cheap to fix if something breaks down, which is not very likely but you never know.

Among these 4 cars I would say it is down to taste which model you prefer.

If I was you I would go to a car rental and rent say a City for one week and thereafter rent a Viros for a week. There are topics here which car is the best and bla bla

The city and viros are basically the same cars from 2 different manufacturers, so if you drive each for a week or so you will probably know which you prefer.

[Loz]

Would you drive a Merc or BMW with a jap engine?

plenty about and more reliable and cheap to run. 1 JZ or 1 JZ turbo. think Merc 190 or Bimmer e34 5 series or 3 series E36.

nice feel without the hassles of high service costs.

[corkman]

Loz, on 2010-03-10 03:07:27, said:

Would you drive a Merc or BMW with a jap engine?

plenty about and more reliable and cheap to run. 1 JZ or 1 JZ turbo. think Merc 190 or Bimmer e34 5 series or 3 series E36.

nice feel without the hassles of high service costs.

If I knew where to look, I'd be the first there looking

Part of my problem is that I am moving over, lock stock and barrell, with the rs. and 3 yr old daughter too, and we are going to be living in the Suburbs, so we're gonna need a car pretty much straight away, and so I don't have a month or two to look around and ponder my choices.

A few people has warned me against buying anything second hand - again, I am realtively "wet around the ears" with regard to the car market, and I am told that the amount you save buying second hand isn't worth worrying about??? But I am open to it!

Thanks.

[corkman]

guzzi850m2, on 2010-03-10 01:42:40, said:

Hi corkman,

I can understand you are confused, so was I when I were out shopping for a car (not new).

Regarding safety, if you buy one of the top models they will have double airbags which I think is a must.

In your last post you mention 4 cars, 2 Honda's and 2 Toyota's.

Well these car are made here which made they easy and cheap to fix if something breaks down, which is not very likely but you never know.

Among these 4 cars I would say it is down to taste which model you prefer.

If I was you I would go to a car rental and rent say a City for one week and thereafter rent a Viros for a week. There are topics here which car is the best and bla bla

The city and viros are basically the same cars from 2 different manufacturers, so if you drive each for a week or so you will probably know which you prefer.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I am probably going to have to rent a car for a week or two when we arrive anyway, until we get ourselves sorted - so I might do as you suggest and rent one or each to see can we live with it

[stingray]

Thailaw, on 2010-03-02 09:53:47, said:

In Thailand, at about B1.5 million, a Honda Accord cannot be described as a "modest" car (in the US, the average price paid for the most expensive Accord is $29,555 (B975,300) and it is ranked no. 5 in "midsized afforable cars" -- big, BIG difference). And the new Accord (my opinion) is really, really ugly. It looks like the front and rear have come from two different cars. I have read that the outer skin has been redesigned outside Thailand due to the very poor reaction to the car's new design (in fact the Chevrolet Malibu is advertised as "Better looking that the Honda Accord" (which it certainly is, but that is not enough reason to buy a Chevy, and certainly not in Thailand)). The new Camry on the other hand is a beautiful car (as is the new Teana). Accord's performance and reliability get rave reviews, and better performance than the Camry. So, it depends what you want and what price you are willing to pay -- I just couldn't pay B1.5 million for a car that looks as bad as the Accord does. The Civic's "wedge" shape is really dated and the design will be changed soon, although it is comfortable inside, and handles very well. The Toyota line have really gotten their act together in body style, and all three, the Vios, Altis and Camry, have exceptionally nice body styles, and I think will look good for a long time to come. That is not the case for the new City, which will look old and dated very quickly, maybe already does. When you think of the affordable options in the US and Europe it is hard to get excited about any of these, but they do provide good, reliable and comfortable transportation at a price that won't break the bank (depending on what model you choose). On big purchases, the bigger problem is the value of the Baht against the Dollar or Pound, which makes a car 20% more expensive that it would have been 3+ years ago -- pretty big hit. And it will likely only get worse over the next 12 months.

When i came to Thailand the Baht was 25 against the dollar, so actually the currency isn't that bad at the moment.

[WarpSpeed]

Of your listed choices I would get the Jazz over any of the others and I've driven all of them, and I am not clueless nor "wet behind the ears" when it comes to cars by any means more like been around the block a few times.. How's that for a fitting analogy?? Anyhoo, the Jazz has an incredible cargo area and is also virtually standard with the "Tiptronic" type transmission making it far more resalable even if you have no preference to use it..

On the higher end models you listed you can get it with some of them but you're paying more and non of them give you the cargo space you'll have with the jazz and with a little one you will find that quite appealing over time, I know, as I have 2 of my own..

The Jazz is quite zippy little car and a lot of fun to drive, took one from Phuket to Bkk with 4 people and back once to move my friend and all of his personals out of his cage all on the same trip (long story). Anyway, it was flawless and that's just one example, I've driven them numerous times and actually requested them well before that point.

Edited by WarpSpeed, 2010-03-11 13:22:12.

[corkman]

WarpSpeed, on 2010-03-11 06:20:50, said:

Of your listed choices I would get the Jazz over any of the others and I've driven all of them, and I am not clueless nor "wet behind the ears" when it comes to cars by any means more like been around the block a few times.. How's that for a fitting analogy?? Anyhoo, the Jazz has an incredible cargo area and is also virtually standard with the "Tiptronic" type transmission making it far more resalable even if you have no preference to use it..

On the higher end models you listed you can get it with some of them but you're paying more and non of them give you the cargo space you'll have with the jazz and with a little one you will find that quite appealing over time, I know, as I have 2 of my own..

The Jazz is quite zippy little car and a lot of fun to drive, took one from Phuket to Bkk with 4 people and back once to move my friend and all of his personals out of his cage all on the same trip (long story). Anyway, it was flawless and that's just one example, I've driven them numerous times and actually requested them well before that point.

Thanks for your reply. You're not the first person to give the Jazz an unqualified endoresment. You are right - cargo area is important when the sprogs are concerned, and we are used to much bigger cars back here in Farang land.

Funny actually - I mentioned to my wife that the city looked bigger and was cheaper than the Jazz - to which she replied "thats because the city and vios look like taxi's but the jazz and yaris just look like small environmentally friendly alternatives to gas guzzlers" ...... typical Thai mentality..... image is everything

Its looking like a Jazz so.

If I could pick up a Fortuner, used, from a reliable source for similar money it would be prefereable though

[INTJ]

The Jazz build quality is dreadful. All of the late model Jap cars are soulless and depressing to drive....... if you are a motoring enthusiast to any degree........buy an old European car. We have a Honda crapmobile and a 20 year old Volvo, I will take the Volvo everywhere and anywhere and always enjoy the drive (mine has Toyota 1JZ 2500cc engine and LPG). Lots of old Mercedes around - you could get a really nice W124 300E for half the price of a Jazz - an absolute no brainer IMO. Unless you want a functional, bland, boring, ubiquitous transportation device.


Just lift and drop the bonnet of the Jazz. Feel the lack of quality and substance. That is what you are buying.


Cheers

Edited by INTJ, 2010-03-11 19:32:39.

[corkman]

INTJ, on 2010-03-11 12:31:05, said:

The Jazz build quality is dreadful. All of the late model Jap cars are soulless and depressing to drive....... if you are a motoring enthusiast to any degree........buy an old European car. We have a Honda crapmobile and a 20 year old Volvo, I will take the Volvo everywhere and anywhere and always enjoy the drive (mine has Toyota 1JZ 2500cc engine and LPG). Lots of old Mercedes around - you could get a really nice W124 300E for half the price of a Jazz - an absolute no brainer IMO. Unless you want a functional, bland, boring, ubiquitous transportation device.


Just lift and drop the bonnet of the Jazz. Feel the lack of quality and substance. That is what you are buying.


Cheers

I would have no problem guying a used car, and would probably prefer to, but the over whelming majority of people I have asked have said that its a big mistake to a buy a second hand car in thailand.....

[GingerLing]

katabeachbum, on 2010-02-28 03:20:04, said:

Made in LOS

Benz, A, C, E, S, SEL
BMW 3, 5, 7
Ford, several models including Fiesta starting March I believe
Toyota, Vios, Yaris, Altis Corolla, Camry, Fortuner, Vigo
Honda, City, Jazz, Civic, Accord
Nissan, Tiida, Teana, Navara

list goes on, more than one million units a year, more than 50% exported

How come they are so expensive? I thought if they were made here they avoided import duty. The 5 series is more than twice the UK price, if it made here shouldn't it be less than the UK?

[jdinasia]

I actually LOVE my Jazz and it is a fun and decent little car. That being said I will be getting something different for upcountry and the Jazz will stay in BKK.

I would avoid any used cars if it was in your budget to avoid them. They are high priced and prone not to have been taken care of when they were new.

[INTJ]

I think you will get the most pleasure in Thailand from a W124 Mercedes for under 500K baht.

Beautiful cars, great presence on the road (people moving over for you etc) and there are some nice ones around, plenty of specialist Benz websites with good classified sections.

Honda Jazz is a crap womans shopping car and any bloke in one looks like a shirtlifter


Cheers


edit, sorry I just noticed the title was modest car.........then a Benz is probably too much ! I would still avoid cheap Honda products though.

Edited by INTJ, 2010-03-11 20:03:29.

[up-country_sinclair]

It seems to me that the Honda Jazz is exactly what the OP is looking for......a modestly priced car with a bit of space that will get him from point A to point B within Bangkok and the suburbs.

I bought mine 4 years ago, and have been very pleased with it.  In fact, I wouldn't hesitate recommending one to friend.

[corkman]

INTJ, on 2010-03-11 12:58:52, said:

edit, sorry I just noticed the title was modest car.........then a Benz is probably too much ! I would still avoid cheap Honda products though.

I suppose it was misleading of me to make "modest" a requirement. What I meant was to avoid a debate going as to whether I should buy a Camry or an Accord......

I must be honest, having had both back home, I'd prefer a beamer though

Any chance you could PM' me a couple of those sites your speaking of. Its not that I'm too lazy to search myself, just I haven't got time between organising everything else, moving in less than 4 weeks, and still working full time!

Thanks

[corkman]

up-country_sinclair, on 2010-03-11 13:25:40, said:

It seems to me that the Honda Jazz is exactly what the OP is looking for......a modestly priced car with a bit of space that will get him from point A to point B within Bangkok and the suburbs.

I bought mine 4 years ago, and have been very pleased with it. In fact, I wouldn't hesitate recommending one to friend.

I'm starting to come around to this conclusion also. Its not what I "want", because I like cars generally, and have no problem spending an unsensible amount of money on a car...... but I've got to temper aspiration with sensiblity as I am moving the entire fmaily and there are going to be a million things to worry about..... in a couple of years I might be better positioned to chase my dreams as far as cars go

[WarpSpeed]

Quote

I would have no problem guying a used car, and would probably prefer to, but the over whelming majority of people I have asked have said that its a big mistake to a buy a second hand car in thailand.....

And they're right under your circumstances. I just bought an older VW Vento and I am quite comfortable, confident and competent with doing the work on it and have been spending copious amounts of time going through the entire car repairing 16 years of Thai engineering (they're much better engineers then the Germans you know? ) I spent a ton of time going over numerous cars and makes from top to bottom before settling on this one that had a good basic foundation with a few minor issues that could be dealt with inexpensively and timely without a major investment. Those cars had everything from major valve problems, severe damage covered, a possible Tsunami car (still around need to be aware) had definitely been under water before, rod knocks, dead batteries for whatever reason (always to be cautious of) etc. the list is endless..

I've been fixing poor and incorrect wiring, an incorrectly installed LP conversion (that was scary stuff to find not to mention the major drop in performance not having had an LP conversion before it was tough to know what to expect, it was doing great harm to the fuel injection system too), readjusted body features that were half assed in their installation from previous contacts (you must be realistic and resign to finding a car with the least amount of damage done as it is an extremely rare find to get one that has not been hit in some magnitude) correcting alignment issues, replacing rigged, cracking CV joint boots, new air filters, transaxle fluid changes, interior cleaning, brakes (the rear brakes had springs installed in the wrong places and loose when they should have been tight, drum brakes) etc. and we bought from a fairly decent dealer but being well informed I got nothing that wasn't expected and I bargained accordingly.

INTJ are you trolling?? The Jazz does not have a dreadful build quality relative to it's price, that's your opinion but what real evidence do you have that you can provide? How many have you driven? One? less?? It isn't priced like a Benz, Lexus, Camry, BMW or anything else like it it is priced and built like the class it is in and priced accordingly and it's good value for the money.

I would definitely take a Jazz over anything that has been b'stardized by the local Thai engineers as you have no idea what kind of shall we say.........Creative engineering has been done under the surface, electrically or mechanically and no way to verify what belongs and what doesn't nor a history.. I find that for me a pick up does not have enough interior room without a bed cover to cover and secure your belongings...

Edited by WarpSpeed, 2010-03-11 23:23:46.

[INTJ]

INTJ are you trolling?? The Jazz does not have a dreadful build quality relative to it's price, that's your opinion but what real evidence do you have that you can provide?




Well, I currently have a Honda City (the same as the Jazz but with a boot), and I have driven 3 Jazz's over the years.

I suggest you lift the bonnet and drop it, also slam the doors. There is no quality whatsoever. And the horrible interior plastics speak for themselves.

Anyone that thinks the Jazz is good quality and well made has obviously never driven a German car

I would take the Vios (03-07) over the Jazz any day.

But as you say, all this is only my opinion


Cheers

[INTJ]

Any chance you could PM' me a couple of those sites your speaking of


http://www.benzowner...display.php?f=9

http://www.mercedesm...board,89.0.html

http://www.bmwsociety.com/classifieds/


Cheers

[WarpSpeed]

Quote

I suggest you lift the bonnet and drop it, also slam the doors. There is no quality whatsoever. And the horrible interior plastics speak for themselves.

I have many times I don't see your point? It is no different then any other car manufactured these days over the way they were 20 or even 30 years ago, and if you don't like them why do you own a Honda now? And you claim to have driven 3 of them and opened the hood and dropped it)? Professional evaluation if I ever heard one   that is not a measure of build quality it is a measure of the times but what they produce with the materials they use is the topic...

As for German cars I've produced & competed on a professional level in manufacturers from both countries and both have their qualities to speak of.. I have driven Integra's, Porsche, Mercedes, and VW in competition and was impressed with certain aspects of all of them, nothing revs, pulls and has the durability like the smaller bore Honda engines in stock trim over even larger displacement German brands given how hard they work it's very impressive.

The Mercedes I drove had good mid range torque and brakes like a truck, very important in competition especially since they are heavy cars but stopping good is every bit as important as HP as it actually helps you go faster if you can be off the brakes quicker and on the power sooner. I never competed in a BMW but I have against them and the first car I bought when I arrived here was an older BMW 318I coupe and their reputation is all that it's made out to be on the track.

I set numerous track records, wins, poles and fastest laps in my own VW's over the years and right now currently own an older VW Vento and do all of my own work on it as I've done on all my cars for years (if you read any of my other posts you would not have stepped in that one) so I'm well equipped to make the distinction between the brands and none of those you've mentioned are even in the class of a Jazz either so you aren't even comparing apples and apples. The only thing close to the Jazz would be the mini and even it's not the same class and is far more expensive (prohibitively so here) which is another strong point of the Jazz..
Cost, versus utility, longevity and serviceability, it's a compromise and Jazz meets the criteria over the suggestions being made and JFYI a Vios is not close in performance or cargo space but yet cost is about the same, not even factoring in Toyota's recent problems these days, enough reason to be shying away from them for a while.....

Edited by WarpSpeed, 2010-03-12 12:06:41.

[Bedrockguesthouse]

Honda Jazz they are brilliant. I'm an aussie normally like bigger cars.

Ours is great with the full body kit on it.

Good luck choosing

rgds Mark

[ZXT]

For your needs you can never go wrong with Yaris/Vios or Jazz/City.

[INTJ]

Hi Mr "WarpSpeed", please allow me to address the issues you raised.


"if you don't like them why do you own a Honda now?"


I don't. My Mrs does though



"And you claim to have driven 3 of them"


Yes, I know it's a pretty astonishing "claim" and I can understand you not believing me



"that is not a measure of build quality it is a measure of the times"


Exactly my point. Modern cars are cheaply produced to the lowest possible cost and standard.



"As for German cars I've produced & competed on a professional level in manufacturers from both countries"


"Produced" what ? And which "both countries", you only mention Germany



"nothing revs, pulls and has the durability like the smaller bore Honda engines in stock trim over even larger displacement German brands"

Not even Porsche, BMW M3, CLS600, Audi V8 ? What a ridiculous statement



"I set numerous track records, wins, poles and fastest laps in my own VW's over the years and right now currently own an older VW Vento "

Well done, did you fit spoilers to your old Vento to break all these records ?



"none of those you've mentioned are even in the class of a Jazz either so you aren't even comparing apples and apples"

I'm making comparisons based on purchase cost. That is the whole point I'm making, that it isn't always necessary to compare apples to apples. There are many other "fruits" available for the same price.



"it's a compromise"

Yes, I'll agree with that


Zzzzzz



Best Regards.

[WarpSpeed]

INTJ, on 2010-03-12 18:36:00, said:

Hi Mr "WarpSpeed", please allow me to address the issues you raised.


"if you don't like them why do you own a Honda now?"


I don't. My Mrs does though



"And you claim to have driven 3 of them"


Yes, I know it's a pretty astonishing "claim" and I can understand you not believing me



"that is not a measure of build quality it is a measure of the times"


Exactly my point. Modern cars are cheaply produced to the lowest possible cost and standard.



"As for German cars I've produced & competed on a professional level in manufacturers from both countries"


"Produced" what ? And which "both countries", you only mention Germany I'll only answer this one the others are just a reflection of your insecurity and lack of knowledge speak for themselves.
You are familiar with the manufacturers of the HONDA Integra aren't you? As my recollection serves they are considered Japanese and the second country of manufacture we are speaking of.... Which BTW I was a factory supported program before coming here..



"nothing revs, pulls and has the durability like the smaller bore Honda engines in stock trim over even larger displacement German brands"

Not even Porsche, BMW M3, CLS600, Audi V8 ? What a ridiculous statement



"I set numerous track records, wins, poles and fastest laps in my own VW's over the years and right now currently own an older VW Vento "

Well done, did you fit spoilers to your old Vento to break all these records ?



"none of those you've mentioned are even in the class of a Jazz either so you aren't even comparing apples and apples"

I'm making comparisons based on purchase cost. That is the whole point I'm making, that it isn't always necessary to compare apples to apples. There are many other "fruits" available for the same price.



"it's a compromise"

Yes, I'll agree with that


Zzzzzz



Best Regards.

Go work on your b'stardized contradiction of terms in that BMW/Toyota your working on as you bestow the virtues of German vehicles and then b'stardize all of their finer qualities with Japanese downgrades you claim to think lowly of.. Why aren't you using a BMW V8? Too high quality for your tastes?
Oh! And if you ever really want to learn to drive your toy properly get in touch and I'll give a real driving lesson at a track day sometime and show you how to keep your hands on the wheel properly while steering and after shifting..     Toyota engine in a BMW!! Blasphemy!   I will say though you got a good price, good thing as you should break even with the downgrades or maybe not this I Thailand where there is little common sense used for most things.. As for the OP his question was not which car would be the best for him to spend months and bahts modifying to make it suitable and sporty..

Edited by WarpSpeed, 2010-03-12 23:16:05.

[tangcoral]

Speaking from experience, I have a 1.5 year old and a wife in our 2007 yaris.
Great on gas, drives well, easy to park, low maintenance, and roomier than it looks from the outside.
However, 2 things issues that point towards upgrading to something else.
1. Safety - something about the size worries me.
2. Not so roomy when you add a car seat, stroller, diaper bag and your groceries.

yaris/vios/jazz - Its definitely doable but the limited space issue gets a bit annoying
thus why I am in the market for WISH.


With a budget of 500-600K there's not much out there other then a pick-up ,if it's any safer that is.
Unless your looking at 5+ year old car you can't get new with that price range.

Out of curiosity, why all this talk about the Jazz and not Yaris.
Is the Yaris inferior to the Jazz?

Edited by tangcoral, 2010-03-13 00:08:36.

[corkman]

tangcoral, on 2010-03-12 16:52:17, said:

Speaking from experience, I have a 1.5 year old and a wife in our 2007 yaris.
Great on gas, drives well, easy to park, low maintenance, and roomier than it looks from the outside.
However, 2 things issues that point towards upgrading to something else.
1. Safety - something about the size worries me.
2. Not so roomy when you add a car seat, stroller, diaper bag and your groceries.

yaris/vios/jazz - Its definitely doable but the limited space issue gets a bit annoying
thus why I am in the market for WISH.


With a budget of 500-600K there's not much out there other then a pick-up ,if it's any safer that is.
Unless your looking at 5+ year old car you can't get new with that price range.

Out of curiosity, why all this talk about the Jazz and not Yaris.
Is the Yaris inferior to the Jazz?

Thanks tangcoral - it is reassuring when someone posts that they have a young family similar to me etc. (other posters too - thnaks).
Off-topic ...... "tang" "coral" ...... bit of a reefer are we?