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[grapetable]

Brahmburgers........................you have to be joking? Decent legit?

[vicco]

ManilaLover, on 2010-03-09 10:46:11, said:

alant, on 2010-03-09 08:11:26, said:

why do non thai posters seem to be negative about the supporters of thaksin, like him or not these are ordinary people for whom the previous regime was of benefit so they like and support him and his policy.
i really dont know if he was good or bad when compared to others but i do know that those wearing yellow shirts are anti democracy as they have stated so the question is, if the choice is to have a vote or not to have a vote, who would you vote for?

Don't forget it need brains to run a country and farmers to grow rice, not the other way round  

Yeah kolonialism had also it's advantages hahaha... But it's not too late for that is it ? How many members does Thaivisa have ??  

[stevehaigh]

'in its last ditch effort to topple Abhisit Vejjajiva's government'

does this mean if it doesn't work, they will give up and go away and let the country return to normal (whatever that is)? i doubt it.

this is one of the few times it pays to be a whitey around here, the police road blocks see a farang and usually just wave us though.

[SiriusBlack1]

The odds are stacked against them, but good luck to them.

Thailand needs to make the shift to real democratic government, not just Potemkin-village, military-rule-with-a-human-face nonsense.

On you Reds!

[snaggletooth]

alant, on 2010-03-09 08:11:26, said:

why do non thai posters seem to be negative about the supporters of thaksin, like him or not these are ordinary people for whom the previous regime was of benefit so they like and support him and his policy.
i really dont know if he was good or bad when compared to others but i do know that those wearing yellow shirts are anti democracy as they have stated so the question is, if the choice is to have a vote or not to have a vote, who would you vote for?

If you had read the news in Thailand over the last five years you'd know just how bad he is. Don't come in with "I really don't know if he was good or bad when compared to other." The big difference is that Thaksin flouted his corruption and he tried to crush any media that was critical of him or his projects. He cancelled a big land auction so that his wife could bid and he made sure she was the only bidder. He made sure his phone company didn't have to pay the same fees as its competitors, he hid assets even in his maid's name. 3,000 people were killed in his war on drugs.

[hawker9000]

Nothing but fodder for the farang doom-mongers and drama-queens who've been screaming civil war and national collapse ever since Mr. T. left the scene.  I don't think anything close to the advertised million watermelons will ever materialize (I mean that'd cost 300million baht!), but do think that some of those who do show up will be looking for trouble.

[richard10365]

I am glad I live in Chiang Mai. Bangkok does not seem like a nice place to live. The water is rising, the city is sinking, and the red shirts are coming to destroy the city. hmmmm...I wonder what is playing at the theatre this weekend?

[johncitizen]

Jingthing, on 2010-03-09 10:46:54, said:

They are using Maoist tactics. They wear red. They seek to crush the educated "elites" a la the tragic Maoist cultural revolution. Coincidence? Are they communist revolutionaries in thin disguise? Look at what happened to some other countries in the general region in the last century when forces like this prevailed.

Huh! I wish! But unfortunately real socialists are about as common in Thailand as water is on the moon- hence why we had the unusual situation of the rural poor looking to a super-capitalist to liberate them from poverty and oppression.

[ReeBkk]

I do not understand the actions of the red shirts (nor did I understand the actions of the yellow), is it just me, or are some democratic policies getting lost in translation here?

For example, the right to protest....brilliant, that's how things got done in the west, but paralyzing and airport and a capital city? way to slash the worth off your economy.

The 'aristocrat-backed government' - errr,,,,name a developed country where the government is not  aristocrat-backed???

And this whole Taksin ordeal.. Using this power to obtain wealth.... I thought that's what most people in governments all around the world do?

[eggomaniac]

alant, on 2010-03-08 17:11:26, said:

why do non thai posters seem to be negative about the supporters of thaksin, like him or not these are ordinary people for whom the previous regime was of benefit so they like and support him and his policy.
i really dont know if he was good or bad when compared to others but i do know that those wearing yellow shirts are anti democracy as they have stated so the question is, if the choice is to have a vote or not to have a vote, who would you vote for?

It makes one wonder where their anscestors stood during the Revolutions in America, France and England, huh?

[Nip]

Quote

Yes, there was another thread here yesterday or so showing what the payments were.  Something like 300B per person and a decent amount for the truck driver.  No way they would get a large crowd if there was no money involved.  

It's becoming a true circus...almost fun to read now.  Except I need to visit Bangkok Saturday!  May have to cancel that trip....

One girl said to me it was the easiest 500 Baht she ever earned. That it was a party with food, frivolity and drink thrown in. Democracy ends as you exit the poll booth. This is 'The Bribery of the Innocents'

[Jingthing]

johncitizen, on 2010-03-09 10:54:38, said:

Jingthing, on 2010-03-09 10:46:54, said:

They are using Maoist tactics. They wear red. They seek to crush the educated "elites" a la the tragic Maoist cultural revolution. Coincidence? Are they communist revolutionaries in thin disguise? Look at what happened to some other countries in the general region in the last century when forces like this prevailed.

Huh! I wish! But unfortunately real socialists are about as common in Thailand as water is on the moon- hence why we had the unusual situation of the rural poor looking to a super-capitalist to liberate them from poverty and oppression.

You wish Thailand would have a Chinese style Maoist cultural revolution?  Say no more.

Edited by Jingthing, 2010-03-09 11:00:02.

[tijnebijn]

animatic, on 2010-03-09 10:44:42, said:

Having a new election won by the Democrats would not silence the Thaksin side one jot.
Not winning would just make them say it was bought by corruption, and it MUST be UNFAIR,
because their mindset doesn't allow anyone but them to be right.

Removing the Thaksin money/influence tenticles and propaganda machine from Issan politics,
cutting more mercenary Puyai middlemen from the food distibution / profit chain,
and passing that profit back to the average Somchai farmer, allowing free and fair compaign nationwide,
and MUCH improving education is the only way to bring peace and a fair elections.

But PTP does want any of these things. So they have their street wing cause trouble.

No it would probably not silence them , I agree .
But it will make his government legitimate , fair or not .

And he will have more negotiating power and support in the international community .
And for people to say its time to move on , the reds would have to change tactics cause there main
point is this government isn't elected .

But before all that the constitution should be amanded first , if not its a never ending story .

The right amendments and people should be moved forward , and some over the top manipulators on
both sides should be moved backwards with some kind of deal and assurances .

Then I think Thailand is ready to move on , although wounds never will be healed , its better then nothing .
The Thai people deserve that , but the main question is will the greedy agree ?
And with the greedy I mean those on both sides ....

Edited by tijnebijn, 2010-03-09 11:01:07.

[scorecard]

khunjamespittman, on 2010-03-09 08:00:46, said:

brahmburgers, on 2010-03-09 07:36:12, said:

It's not going to work as planned.

Ok, maybe a bunch of people will show up, but the existing government will be fine after the dust settles.  Have there been reports of payments for attending?

The Abhisit government is legit and decent.  There's no real groundswell against him and his administration.  It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

I see the OP photo of Thaksin with the words "Thailand needs change"   He's trying to copy Obama's success with that line.   Yes, Thailand needs change, it needs to get good people in leadership roles, and get away from the ugly patterns of having people like Thaksin in the driver's seat.   Thailand needs to change being so tolerable to treasonous people like Thaksin.  It needs to change being so forgiving to Thaksin's puppets, like Sae Daeng, who toss explosives here and there.

The sooner Thailand changes from being harassed from Thaksin and his followers, the sooner Thailand can get moving forward to improving quality of life and cleaning up the environment and doing the many other things that have been put off because of the incessant hassling from Thaksin and his paid intimidators.

Yet another diatribe repeated incessantly here on TV to distract from that fact that the majority of Thais want Democracy and equality for all Thais and not just the chosen elites.  The rabid words are always the same, almost as if an automated note writer were producing them.

We should all reject this kind of propoganda.  We need to re-establish a civil discourse.

You said:

"....Yet another diatribe repeated incessantly here on TV to distract from that fact that the majority of Thais want Democracy and equality for all Thais and not just the chosen elites.  The rabid words are always the same, almost as if an automated note writer were producing them.
...."


You are correct, the majority of Thais want democracy, want a better deal, want a better quality of life, want the gap reduced, want better education, want low cost access to medical care, want equal justice.

But you're wrong if you think thaksin and the red shirts are the means to all of that. In fact a large of amount of their regular 'diotribe' talks in terms of many things which destroy democracy and bring a lawless state, make corruption easy, make vote buying easy, and more. And they align themselves to scaly unethical people like chalerm, sae daeng, jatuporn (no hesitation to regularly tell blatant lies in parliament - nice ethics for a man who wants to be a minister) and more.

And you might like to have a closer look at what abhisit and korn have been doing in recent weeks which is to lay some of the foundaton for exactly what the majority want.

You might like to also note that the Thai economy is not in such bad shape, taxation receipts are way above forecast (a good economic indicator), the various Thai chambers of commerce are indicating that korn is on the right path, etc.

You might like to also note that abhsit is getting much tougher with the rogues within his own party and the coalition parties, much tougher with the police and the military.

[gr8fldanielle]

so what does this mean "topple the government"? Create complete chaos, maybe assassinate some key leaders, dissolve the military, and Taksin is going to step back in as a hero and get his money back? How stupid can they be? If the person in charge thought these people had a smidgen of brains, they would form a legitimate party, but obviously the powers that want to be don't think they are capable of anything more than blocking traffic and stinking up the city. Don't these peasants know they are being used, or is being used OK if it pays 300 baht. How much is one's dignity worth? obviously to these people not much.  

[tonglen]

"Asked about the potential for violence, Jaran said 5,000 red-shirt guards were trained to ensure things proceed smoothlyOh, great. Red shirts under Thaksin watching red shirts under Thaksin. Is there anybody else scratching their heads out there?Is this the equivalent to having a cat watch your parakeet while you're away?

[vahack]

connel707, on 2010-03-09 09:27:29, said:

neilf, on 2010-03-09 08:23:20, said:

never mind all of us in pattaya will carry on as we always do because nothing affects us anyway apart from the one thing we fear above all else----------------bar closing time !!

Thats a great idea...Pattaya here I come...   book me a woom with a view..!!!

and if all goes as "planned" the baht will devalue too, which means more whiskey for less !

i appreciate everybody has an opinion and people don't like each other. my home country of America has 2 major parties that fight like dogs too. what we don't do is hold massive violent (or economically debilitating) protests to try to force our opinions on the country and overthrow the current sitting government.

Thailand will never evolve because the people don't comprehend the point of democracy (among other things).

but yea, i could use a little devaluation of this ridiculously high baht..

[WillArzonia]

Cnxforever, on 2010-03-08 19:02:03, said:

Cnxforever, on 2010-03-09 08:30:18, said:

A possible scenario which no one considers here is the fall of the Abhisit government in parliament - about a month ago there was speculation that Sanan from Chat Thai Pattana, one of the Democrat's coalition partners, may be the person who Puea Thai nominates as the PM candidate in the upcoming no-confidence debate vote.

The red shirts would be mere bystanders and the pressure on the street to attack the current government with peaceful but effective means from two fronts.
If this scenario plays out and any violence should occur it is surely government / army sponsored to create the pretext fro a coup if the government should fall in parliament through a no confidence motion.

*rest of post removed, see reasons below*

I am posting it again this time with source / quote and unquote

A possible scenario which no one considers here is the fall of the Abhisit government in parliament  - about a month ago there was speculation that Sanan from Chat Thai Pattana, one of the Democrat's coalition partners, may be the person who Puea Thai nominates as the PM candidate in the upcoming no-confidence debate vote.

The red shirts would be mere bystanders and the pressure on the street to attack the current government  with peaceful but effective means from two fronts. If this scenario plays out and any violence should occur it is surely government / army sponsored to create the pretext fro a coup if the government should fall in parliament through a no confidence motion.

As blogged by Bangkok Pundit then:

source Asian correspondent Bangkok Pundit blog

Quote:

"In the upcoming no-confidence debate, the government can change if there is a vote of no-confidence in the PM.

Puea Thai will lead it and are meant to provide the name of the new PM. Puea Thai have about 189 MPs, Chat Thai Pattana about 25, and Bhum Jai Thai about 33. Then you have Pracharaj and some other MPs part of other coalition parties, but more closely aligned with Puea Thai totalling about 15-20. This gets you around 260 MPs out of 480 MPs which is a majority, although they may want to pick up 10 MPs to give them a clearer majority. Now, one way to convince Chat Thai Pattana to leave the government would be for Puea Thai to choose of the Chat Thai Pattana MPs, namely Sanan, to be PM. Then, if you get Bhum Jai Thai onboard - Abhisit is gone. This still seems unlikely although certainly not impossible as both Chat Thai Pattana and Bhum Jai Thai are not happy with the Democrats. Whether they would leave the government is a different matter, but above is a path on how it might happen.

Why Sanan? He was Secretary-General of the Democrats and Interior Minister under Chuan. He can hardly be attacked as some Thaksin lackey then."

Thanong of The Nation believes it will happen in a new post of his entitled "A secret plot to support Maj Gen Sanan as new PM"

On March 14, the Puea Thai Party plans to launch a no-confidence motion against Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. Thaksin Shinawatra, who still musters control over this party, already has secret support from Banharn Silapa-archa, the leader of the Chat Thai Pattana. Newin Chidchob of the Bhumjai Thai is also ready to jump ship to join this new coalition. The no-confidence motion will take place while the Red Shirts' rallies are going on in full steam. Several hundred thousands of Red Shirts would be blocking Bangkok and planning mass rally to topple the Abhisit government.

Chalerm Yoobamrung will be left in the cold. His recent squabbles with Jae Noi, Sudarat Keyuraphand, for control of Pheu Thai, are not going any where. It is a sideshow.

We have to see whether it is possible for the Pheu Thai, with support from the defected coalition partners, to resort to parliamentary tactics to throw out Abhisit from the premiership. Then it would propose Maj Gen Sanan as the next PM -- not Chalerm  

unquote

- senior Chat Thai Pattana figures  have been going on the record to deny this – but  note that no Chat Thai Pattana Ministers will be facing a no-confidence vote!

so watch out for who will be proposed as the PM before the no confident motion and you will most likely know what will play out.

It now all depends on what has been going on behind the scenes and who has been promised what  - there is no loyalty in Thai politics – and some coalition partners are already unhappy with the democrats – the money is not flowing as predicted – if you know what I mean. Yes fighting corruption in this country can cost you – after all most of the players in Thai politics are in it for the money and nothing else – so loyalties can shift quickly. (see Newin ) The yellow shirts can then cry foul "non-elected" government like the reds do now – only difference is the democrats can not win an election – the reds would go for a democratic election and win –Thaksin is pardoned and gets back all his money – and Anupong can go packing and apply for asylum abroad or stages a coup -  cunning plan don't you think so?

What we might see on the 14^th or 15^th is a peacefully toppled government in parliament with added pressure from the red shirts on the streets  - or a coup  - or both.

Good analysis and very possible

[vicco]

Obviously if the Thai's had any brains at all both the government and UDD leaders would get together and just hand over power and governance to a team of UK expats.
They could recruit a suitable cabinet right here on TV.   I mean, who knows more about Thailand...or running a country than UK expats on TV?
I have always found it strange how nearly all the Redshirts come from rural Thailand...NW and Issan.....but all the Redshirt experts (and Thaksin) experts seem
to be from the UK and live in Bankok....probably in air conditioned condos, have probably never had to run anything more complicated than a trip to the bar....and have forgotten
what the hel_l they are doing here anyway.....  Maybe if the pound reaches parity with the baht.....you will all be forced to go back and help run the UK instead....then Thailand
would just have to manage on it's own somehow.

[johncitizen]

Jingthing, on 2010-03-09 10:58:44, said:

johncitizen, on 2010-03-09 10:54:38, said:

Jingthing, on 2010-03-09 10:46:54, said:

They are using Maoist tactics. They wear red. They seek to crush the educated "elites" a la the tragic Maoist cultural revolution. Coincidence? Are they communist revolutionaries in thin disguise? Look at what happened to some other countries in the general region in the last century when forces like this prevailed.

Huh! I wish! But unfortunately real socialists are about as common in Thailand as water is on the moon- hence why we had the unusual situation of the rural poor looking to a super-capitalist to liberate them from poverty and oppression.

You wish Thailand would have a Chinese style Maoist cultural revolution?  Say no more.

Give the people their vote, or have them rise up against you. You can't hold the majority under the thumb of a privileged elite forever.

[blaze]

tonglen, on 2010-03-09 11:00:24, said:

"Asked about the potential for violence, Jaran said 5,000 red-shirt guards were trained to ensure things proceed smoothlyOh, great. Red shirts under Thaksin watching red shirts under Thaksin. Is there anybody else scratching their heads out there?Is this the equivalent to having a cat watch your parakeet while you're away?

I think that the red shirt leadership (if not all in the rank and file) recognize that violence by the redshirts would not be in their best interest. They are not total idiots (despite what some on this forum might think)- they know that the songkran riots did not endear them to the silent majority and would probably, I THINK, want this thing to demonstrate that they are an organized peaceful force, genuinely committed to the principles of democracy. (whether they are committed in fact to those principles is another question.)
So the guards may well be in place, not just to protect the demonstraters from the military/police- from counterdemonstraters- and to weed out agents provocateurs- but also to ensure that the rank and file behaves in accordance with 'the plan'- which is to show that they are not just an unruly mob- but a responsible assemblage insisting on systemic changes.

[TonyH]

I thought the Thai people were against Communists ?
These Red Shirts allong with there Red Guards and Marxist-Leninist, leaders are COMMUNISTS look at: http://en.wikipedia....rty_of_Thailand  and I think they are extreemly dangerous and harmfull to Thailand. This could be the turning point for a once great Nation. "Very Sad Time"

[Thormaturge]

How are those of us who live in Bangkok supposed to notice when it is paralysed?

[SanSaiExPat]

brahmburgers, on 2010-03-09 07:36:12, said:

It's not going to work as planned.

Ok, maybe a bunch of people will show up, but the existing government will be fine after the dust settles.  Have there been reports of payments for attending?

The Abhisit government is legit and decent.  There's no real groundswell against him and his administration.  It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

I see the OP photo of Thaksin with the words "Thailand needs change"   He's trying to copy Obama's success with that line.   Yes, Thailand needs change, it needs to get good people in leadership roles, and get away from the ugly patterns of having people like Thaksin in the driver's seat.   Thailand needs to change being so tolerable to treasonous people like Thaksin.  It needs to change being so forgiving to Thaksin's puppets, like Sae Daeng, who toss explosives here and there.

The sooner Thailand changes from being harassed from Thaksin and his followers, the sooner Thailand can get moving forward to improving quality of life and cleaning up the environment and doing the many other things that have been put off because of the incessant hassling from Thaksin and his paid intimidators.

"The Abhisit government is legit and decent"?    Legit?  By who's standards?  A government that gained power by military coup while the democratically elected PM was overseas is legit?

[gr8fldanielle]

vicco, on 2010-03-09 11:03:29, said:

Obviously if the Thai's had any brains at all both the government and UDD leaders would get together and just hand over power and governance to a team of UK expats.
They could recruit a suitable cabinet right here on TV.   I mean, who knows more about Thailand...or running a country than UK expats on TV?
I have always found it strange how nearly all the Redshirts come from rural Thailand...NW and Issan.....but all the Redshirt experts (and Thaksin) experts seem
to be from the UK and live in Bankok....probably in air conditioned condos, have probably never had to run anything more complicated than a trip to the bar....and have forgotten
what the hel_l they are doing here anyway.....  Maybe if the pound reaches parity with the baht.....you will all be forced to go back and help run the UK instead....then Thailand
would just have to manage on it's own somehow.

there must be something relevant here somewhere. let's see, relevance, relevance relevance, nope, can't find anything. A little help maybe?