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[hammered]

Scott, on 2010-03-09 16:39:14, said:

The barring of foreigners from the protest is interesting.  Does anybody know the legal basis for this?  Is it in the ISA, or does the ISA allow for it?

My guess is that it is referring to all the cheap labour here who are often not on a passport/work permit like us but on a card and iirc it limits them to the locale in which they work. To really know you need to look at what the cabinet deciison said in Thai and not the English reproted tranaslation or even what a minister said. The details will likely be quite precise.

[Scott]

Thanks Hammered, that's helpful.

[mazeltov]

kmj, on 2010-03-09 15:56:58, said:

ballpoint, on 2010-03-09 15:43:17, said:

Would you go along to a "free Tibet" march because you wanted a pay rise?

but I have the right to, without being threatened by someone to 5 years in jail... thats the point

that it isn't just about some political opinion or a 'i rather like/hate Thaksin' question but have something to do with basic human right issues a lot of people on this board don't get.

on the basis of assumption, guess work, speculation, bias and soon basic human rights got denied.
a government that issue such orders demonstrate that they don't have a grasp what democracy and human rights actually mean.

this Order alone or along with the new migrant registration policy mentioned in the article should give immigrants a reason to form their own block and participate in a protest against this government.
there is a 2 -class system of immigrants and this is aimed at Burmese workers. probably nothing will happen to western foreigners, but i doesn't mean that we as the board members shouldn't mind. if i blame Thaksin on the basis of his human right record i must condemn such Order with the same stance or i would be a hypocrite.

and what if we too ...
imagine some NGO some human right nerd who wants to show up as independent observer, foreigners that try with their presence to prevent police violence. such people you have evrywhere even if the protests not their cause. peaceniks.
what is with foreigners that have family here. okay, they are not entitled to vote, but their spouses, children, adopted children, all the in-laws are. if you bring them with your pick up to a meeting point you can risk 5 years in jail.

this Order is exploitable until such extend and thats why you should be concerned, even if you don't have a pick up or red shirted relatives or don't care at all or hate Thaksin you should be concerned if civil rights have a value for you.

[mazeltov]

Old Man River, on 2010-03-09 17:14:07, said:

Moonrakers, on 2010-03-09 16:35:12, said:

MyphuketLife, on 2010-03-09 16:21:55, said:

I am not looking for arguments journalists that are reporting from/working here are "migrant workers".  Tell me where it says they are excluded?

There is no point in splitting hairs as it achieves nothing. It is obvious what they mean, after all do you really thing that they would have any intention of jailing BBC/CNN reporters etc?

A voice of reason. Thanks for bringing a little bit of realism into this.

is it just 'an argument on the internet'?
in the end its a two class distribution of human rights. voice of reason?
question solved. you can be be happy now. they are not coming to take You away, is just the others. he, he. don't have to worry about it.

[Jolene]

The issue of foreigner's aside, considering it has been amply discussed, I also noted the article which launched this thread had an interesting take on the "People's war against the Elite" rally this weekend

And I quote,"Thaksin supporters, known as Red Shirts.........will hold one of their biggest rallies.....against a Supreme Court decision"

So that is what this is all about? A million protesters and their 100,000 private vehicles converging on Bangkok are all uniformly incensed by a court decision and are going to do something about it.

That must have been the "mother of all court decisions" to inflame such a reaction. Never in the annals of jurisprudence and national historical judicial events has such fervour been generated by a single court decision. This is truly remarkable.

Lets get this right.

A momentum has been building within the ranks of the silent majority, from whom Electoral Democracy was stolen three years ago by a coup. They will recapture their Electoral Democratic human rights, either this weekend or in the future.

That is what this is all about!

A non-electoral Government and PM selection process will not be accepted.

That realization needs to sink in at some point in time.

This weekends rally will move this process along.

Edited by Jolene, 2010-03-09 18:51:03.

[Jingthing]

Sounds great, but these days the majority clearly does NOT want Thaksin back as dictator for life, and that is on the red agenda. If they had dropped Thaksin long ago and went for a real idealistic people's movement (and PEACEFULLY) they would have picked up a lot of the educated middle class. As it is now, they probably aren't going to win, and if they do win, it will be tragic.

[scorecard]

hammered, on 2010-03-09 17:16:15, said:

Scott, on 2010-03-09 16:39:14, said:

The barring of foreigners from the protest is interesting.  Does anybody know the legal basis for this?  Is it in the ISA, or does the ISA allow for it?

My guess is that it is referring to all the cheap labour here who are often not on a passport/work permit like us but on a card and iirc it limits them to the locale in which they work. To really know you need to look at what the cabinet deciison said in Thai and not the English reproted tranaslation or even what a minister said. The details will likely be quite precise.

And further, the initial report which starts this thread is from the AFx news agency, which is not exactly balanced, and it's 'journalists' regularly use the current buzz words like 'elites' obviously with no real knowledge of where this manufactured word comes from.

[britmaveric]

Foreigners should stay away only exceptions I can think are accredited press/media.  Why anyone want to put their arse on the line for any of these protests is beyond me - dangerous game to play!

[Jingthing]

britmaveric, on 2010-03-09 18:59:13, said:

Foreigners should stay away only exceptions I can think are accredited press/media.  Why anyone want to put their arse on the line for any of these protests is beyond me - dangerous game to play!

Yet another rare epic moment of total agreement of BM and moi.

[wolf5370]

One thing that worries (well one of many to be honest) - if this is to remove the worry of immigrant workers swelling the numbers (enforced or not), then it isn't expected to be farang, but Buremese, Laos, Cambodians etc. Just how are they going to know that the protestors are immigramnts without arresting them - are they going to round up everyone? or go along checking IDs? Seems a litle hard to enforce other than the threat of the odd arrested troublemaker being caught out. Safety in numbers

Edited by wolf5370, 2010-03-09 19:05:52.

[elcent]

rhiekel, on 2010-03-09 15:47:21, said:

My take on a decree that prohibits foreigners from attending a red rally ( which is world wide basic human right) , is that the government feels at some point they may have to open up with guns to stop any rioting. Killing a few foreigners would look really really bad.

It happened in black May 1992. It was not random but on purpose, some people not even near the venues of troubles, shot at blank range. And yes, I have seen Indians and Pakistanis in the front waving flags on a hijacked bus that time. I have seen the army instructor was a farang when the crackdown started.  A Reuter's journalist got very confused about this, so did I. During the crackdown in the hotel, all video matrials were confiscated, at least what they could fetch. CNN, and many others lost time witness material this way. I have talked to the commuists who were at the democracy monument and army doctors there in private. I have seen people got marked by undercover agent and snipers took them out from the crowd.

The fastest and smartest were the guys from BBC. A German TV Channel general manager from a major big TV Station who flew in to cull the team here didn't even know that there was a crackdown and curfew.

Whilst in the hotel I convinced a girl not to leave at midnight while she claimed that she was working for Pacific Intercommunication, she wanted to go home and seemed so desperate about it and did not consider that the whole area was a war zone. It turned out that she was the daughter of the Thai intelligence boss the next morning, her dad didn't even know that she was there when he led the foreigners out of the war zone. ...

Edited by elcent, 2010-03-09 19:43:23.

[jackr]

britmaveric, on 2010-03-09 18:59:13, said:

Foreigners should stay away

[Moonrakers]

Jolene, on 2010-03-09 18:45:45, said:

A non-electoral Government and PM selection process will not be accepted.

Welcome to Thaivisa.

Please gen up on your knowledge before posting again.

Thanks

[Oberkommando]

Why should foreign taxpayers not be allowed to partake in peaceful protest?

This Government's slip is showing again.  

[TAWP]

wolf5370, on 2010-03-09 19:04:37, said:

One thing that worries (well one of many to be honest) - if this is to remove the worry of immigrant workers swelling the numbers (enforced or not), then it isn't expected to be farang, but Buremese, Laos, Cambodians etc. Just how are they going to know that the protestors are immigramnts without arresting them - are they going to round up everyone? or go along checking IDs? Seems a litle hard to enforce other than the threat of the odd arrested troublemaker being caught out. Safety in numbers

Ofcourse they will not do a general ID check, but if a truck from a manufacturer comes and unloads some 80 Burmese workers at the protest site, then they will be handled etc. Some of us living here have even started to learn to recognize where people are from, in general. And so can the police etc.

[a99az]

Mad, mad, mad, mad, mad.
5 years jail for going to a demo!!!!  Franco, Benito Mussolini, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Than Shwe's and scores of others like them pulled stunts like this to keep the power. Looks like another name could be added to this list. Bad way to go.

[animatic]

Jolene, on 2010-03-09 18:45:45, said:

The issue of foreigner's aside, considering it has been amply discussed, I also noted the article which launched this thread had an interesting take on the "People's war against the Elite" rally this weekend

And I quote,"Thaksin supporters, known as Red Shirts.........will hold one of their biggest rallies.....against a Supreme Court decision"

So that is what this is all about? A million protesters and their 100,000 private vehicles converging on Bangkok are all uniformly incensed by a court decision and are going to do something about it.

That must have been the "mother of all court decisions" to inflame such a reaction. Never in the annals of jurisprudence and national historical judicial events has such fervour been generated by a single court decision. This is truly remarkable.

Lets get this right.

A momentum has been building within the ranks of the silent majority, from whom Electoral Democracy was stolen three years ago by a coup. They will recapture their Electoral Democratic human rights, either this weekend or in the future.

That is what this is all about!

A non-electoral Government and PM selection process will not be accepted.

That realization needs to sink in at some point in time.

This weekends rally will move this process along.

Sadly for you most all of your points are based on the FACADE
that has been rebranded on the face of the Red shirts,
but back in the rump it's still the same of BS game they are playing.

A rose by any other name would smell the same,
but so would a dumpster filled with rat feces would also smell the same
if you called it the HMS Queen Elezibeth II by name...

Silk Purse into  sows ear or into horses ass?

[elcent]

a99az, on 2010-03-09 19:45:21, said:

Mad, mad, mad, mad, mad.
5 years jail for going to a demo!!!!  Franco, Benito Mussolini, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Than Shwe's and scores of others like them pulled stunts like this to keep the power. Looks like another name could be added to this list. Bad way to go.

The gov will take the mickey for not responding reasonable. Just my guess. Whoever with a reasonable mindset would not join this madness. Most of them just observe, except a few Asians.

Edited by elcent, 2010-03-09 19:54:30.

[TerraPosse]

rhiekel, on 2010-03-09 09:47:21, said:

My take on a decree that prohibits foreigners from attending a red rally ( which is world wide basic human right) , is that the government feels at some point they may have to open up with guns to stop any rioting. Killing a few foreigners would look really really bad.

You pretty much nailed it.

[Jingthing]

TerraPosse, on 2010-03-09 19:53:37, said:

rhiekel, on 2010-03-09 09:47:21, said:

My take on a decree that prohibits foreigners from attending a red rally ( which is world wide basic human right) , is that the government feels at some point they may have to open up with guns to stop any rioting. Killing a few foreigners would look really really bad.

You pretty much nailed it.

That may be one of many reasons. However, if it does come to that, consider that it might get to the point that the army has no choice but to fight deadly force with deadly force, as might have happened at Black Songkran, but didn't. Lets hope it doesn't happen.

These security measures look harsh. They are harsh. However, there is something we don't know. We don't know the internal intelligence of the Thai government as to the severity of the violent threat of the red shirts. From a PR point of view, I doubt they wanted to do this. It doesn't look good. But consider that perhaps they had little choice.

Edited by Jingthing, 2010-03-09 20:06:02.

[monkfish]

Beware all foreigners wearing red shirts on the 12th will be arrested.

If you go to Bangkok take a yellow shirt and you will be OK

I should work for the Nation

[DP25]

There are already going to be thousands of white and East Asian foreigners in and the general vicinity of the rally.  Or have people forgotten where these are held?  This is to stop the forcing of Burmese factory workers going to the rallies and being used as cannon fodder by the reds.  Thai factory workers of course will still be vulnerable to this tactic unfortunately.

[SeanMoran]

monkfish, on 2010-03-09 13:04:08, said:

Beware all foreigners wearing red shirts on the 12th will be arrested.

If you go to Bangkok take a yellow shirt and you will be OK

I should work for the Nation

It's okay.  Friday is blue-shirt day.  Sunday might be a bit of a concern though...

[elcent]

monkfish, on 2010-03-09 20:04:08, said:

Beware all foreigners wearing red shirts on the 12th will be arrested.

If you go to Bangkok take a yellow shirt and you will be OK

I should work for the Nation

H_ll, I have put moth balls to the storage of my red shirts since two years now. When can I wear them again?   Have only two though.

[Ulysses G.]

neverdie, on 2010-03-09 16:44:11, said:

Personally I dont have any problems being excluded from such lunacy as this. What alot of people don't realise is, at gatherings like this the mood can change very very quickly (especially here in Thailand) and one moment everything seem relatively fine and then the crowd turns and people get injured and killed.

If you go to an event like this as a foriegner, your a first class idiot.

Another classic, sensible post by neverdie!