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[Morch]

Harcourt, on 2010-03-15 15:21:52, said:

Morch, on 2010-03-15 21:16:18, said:

Harcourt, on 2010-03-15 15:00:58, said:

Insight, on 2010-03-15 20:47:18, said:

It's because of responses like Loaded's I hope the army have the sense to remain cool.

I didn't read Loaded's response.....but why should the army remain cool? I think this is the perfect opportunity for the army to show some spine and venture out. An army unit was just fired upon.....any other time or place, in any country, and the neighbourhood would have been locked down and the perps tracked down and killed. Justifiably so.

Imagine if a grenade had been fired into an Israeli barracks while Palestinians protested outside.

If the shooter was a Palestinian, sure, they'd go medieval on his etc.
But in situation where the protesters are Israeli, security forces are usually restrained (well, strike that if we're talking about Arab Israeli citizens, but that's a whole different issue).
Point is these are people of the same nation here, probably quite a few from the same provinces.

Your racial discrimination, or seeming condoning of it, is a whole diferent subject that should not divert from the thread.
My analogy was about enemies of the state that fire upon the army.

I think you misunderstood my meaning. Wasn't condoning this state of affairs, just telling it as it is.
What I'm saying is that citizens, even while rioting, do not automatically become "enemies of the state".
Rather doubt most of the people out there had any idea this was coming up and don't think they'd go for it if asked first.
Having the army go at them is foolishness.

[animatic]

hammered, on 2010-03-15 15:08:34, said:

Every grenade to date over the past few years has been fired at Thaksin's opponents not at his supporters. There have been a number of deaths and injuries to them. That is the only pattern we are sure of. Draw what conclusion you like from it.

Yes, I agree, this is the solid and unbroken pattern of 4 years.
Thanks for the succinct statement.

[hextac]

Nowhereman60, on 2010-03-15 09:17:39, said:

The news article says an M79 grenade not 4. where does that 4 comes from???????????????????????  More Yellow shirt lies??????????

Read post #28 from AFP

[yoshiwara]

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 15:14:33, said:

yoshiwara, on 2010-03-15 15:08:47, said:

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 15:04:46, said:

Some people may be aware that the US launched an open war against North Vietnam due to an 'incident' in the Gulf of Tonkin in August 1964. It was later revealed the 'incident' had been engineered by the Americans. It's possible, in a similar, vein, that what seems obvious, isn't obvious especially in a land of smoke and mirrors such as Thailand. Skepticism is healthy. Due to this incident, a 'power' in this large chess game may gain an advantage. However, without question you could just believe it's the red shirts. Up to you.

Wasn't it one of the main red leaders who stated that they wanted to turn Bangkok into a sea of fire over the weekend? Dig around in your history box all you want.

Thaksin said he wants to restore democracy. I said I was going to beat up Billy Smith when I was 7 after he had gone home. Rhetoric is just that.

Thaksin wants to restore Thaksin. Good that you are dismissing Red spokesman statements as so much playground bombast.

[Moonrakers]

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 15:28:59, said:

Even the British have been known to pretend to be the enemy and not so long ago as well:

"British special forces caught dressed as Arab 'terrorists'

British soldiers have been caught posing as Arabs and shooting Iraqis in the occupied city of Basra in southern Iraq. A group of them was caught yesterday by Iraqi police. They were driving an Iraqi car, wearing Arab clothing, and carrying weapons and explosives."

http://www.theinside...cle.asp?id=1556

Looks like an Arab, smells like an Arab, talks like an Arab and behaves like the British Army.

Looks like a Red Shirt, drives like a Red Shirt, uses a weapon recently associated with Red Shirts - who knows for sure!

Putting asides the fact that that website seems to cater for tin-foil hatted conspiracy theorists. I really don't think that covert op's carried out by special forces in a warzone can be used as a comparison.

[Loaded]

yoshiwara, on 2010-03-15 15:39:34, said:

Thaksin wants to restore Thaksin. Good that you are dismissing Red spokesman statements as so much playground bombast.

I don't support Thaksin. I don't support Abhisit. I do support not being a lemming.

[aussimike]

Jingthing, on 2010-03-15 14:54:00, said:

Ulysses G., on 2010-03-15 14:51:22, said:

waza, on 2010-03-15 14:30:54, said:

Hmmm crazy move

Totally insane. It doesn't fit in with anything that has happened this weekend, now does it?

They are losing. They didn't turn out. They are humiliated. They are FRUSTRATED and their face is badly damaged. This isn't crazy given the crowd we are dealing with (remember BLACK SONGKRAN), it is totally PREDICTABLE.

Also predictable, the pitiful red spin that is wasn't the reds who did this.

another stupid yellow tainted comment - bet u even wear yellow pyjamas to bed -- what benefit would the reds get from doing this as there will be lots of stupid people just like yourself who immediately assume - that they did it -- assume -- make an ass of yourself --- talk about tunnel vision -- and they have not lost anything - getting world attention right now - major headlines on the BBC

[Jockey]

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 14:36:00, said:

cdnvic, on 2010-03-15 14:33:16, said:

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?  

That's probably why they were targeted. We shouldn't immediately assume this was the work of Red Shirts.

Nice to see some people have theirs eyes open. Good post.

[brd]

Thaksin would say beware some  one using red shirt as a disguise could be tempted to act silly...

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 14:36:00, said:

cdnvic, on 2010-03-15 14:33:16, said:

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?  

That's probably why they were targeted. We shouldn't immediately assume this was the work of Red Shirts.

[ableguy]

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 14:36:00, said:

cdnvic, on 2010-03-15 14:33:16, said:

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?  

That's probably why they were targeted. We shouldn't immediately assume this was the work of Red Shirts.

Tell me you think the government did this???????

[teacherpaul]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Maybey it was the IRA.

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 14:36:00, said:

cdnvic, on 2010-03-15 14:33:16, said:

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?

That's probably why they were targeted. We shouldn't immediately assume this was the work of Red Shirts.

[webfact]

Police Arrest M-79 Shooter

BANGKOK: -- Police have arrested a suspect in the shooting of an M-79 grenade at the 1st Infantry Regiment on Vipavadee-Rangsit Road that injured 2 soldiers earlier today.

The suspect was arrested while trying to drive away. The Tungmahamek police are interrogating him.


-- Tan Network 2010-03-15

[hammered]

After a grenade was fired at the last PAD rally, it was interesting that Giles of Red Siam fame named someone as having been repossible for it. I think quite a few peop[le would be surprised who this was and what side of the divide they were on.

[CHINWA]

KhaoNiaw, on 2010-03-15 14:41:00, said:

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 14:36:00, said:

cdnvic, on 2010-03-15 14:33:16, said:

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?  

That's probably why they were targeted. We shouldn't immediately assume this was the work of Red Shirts.

Of course it might not be. But it's still worth differentiating between ordinary Red Shirts we see dancing on the streets, and other Thaksin-backed types who need to make something happen.

Finally, a comment that makes sense.

[FM505]

Loaded, on 2010-03-15 14:36:00, said:

cdnvic, on 2010-03-15 14:33:16, said:

Don't these idiots realize that most of the soldiers are just poor kids from the sticks?  

That's probably why they were targeted. We shouldn't immediately assume this was the work of Red Shirts.

True...

[neverdie]

webfact, on 2010-03-15 15:49:05, said:

Police Arrest M-79 Shooter

BANGKOK: -- Police have arrested a suspect in the shooting of an M-79 grenade at the 1st Infantry Regiment on Vipavadee-Rangsit Road that injured 2 soldiers earlier today.

The suspect was arrested while trying to drive away. The Tungmahamek police are interrogating him.


-- Tan Network 2010-03-15

I wonder how long it will take the beat obtain confessions out of him?

[Harcourt]

Morch, on 2010-03-15 21:32:45, said:

I think you misunderstood my meaning. Wasn't condoning this state of affairs, just telling it as it is.
What I'm saying is that citizens, even while rioting, do not automatically become "enemies of the state".
Rather doubt most of the people out there had any idea this was coming up and don't think they'd go for it if asked first.
Having the army go at them is foolishness.

Rioting may not constitute being an enemy of the state....but firing explosives at the military does.
Firing explosives at civilians does too.

Would you have hoped the army or police remained calm if Timothy McVeigh was just walking away from his pickup truck prior to it becoming the "Oklahama Bombing"? Tim was probably from the same province as most of the dead....the cops were too. What has blood, race, nationality, religion, etc go to do with it?

Nevermind, lets not digress from the thread.

[FunkyGuru]

I have a feeling that the red leadership, if I were to use the term, has forgotten to have something called 'Plan B'. Maybe it was just an overlook or it was seriously thought that a million plus would flood BKK and the government will simply give in to their demands.

Carefully observe the statments issued the them. Starting from continuing the agitation/rally to now absurd ideas like a million cc of blood to deface the government property? Funny I find it. Loss of word, no backup plan, no brains to prompt them what to say, heat of mid march, humiliation due to failure of tall claims, calmness of their 'enemy' ... indeed some edgy nerved lunatics in such mass hysteria may pull the trigger.

In my two satangs worth, Reds, never had a chance and now they are convincing those who thought they had a good cause that they don't. I see the red support fading away. Most unfortunate thing would be that in this stand off and mindless moves by some wrecked nerve lunatic with stash of weapons, many innocent will suffer. Finally it will be Thailand as a nation that will suffer not red shirt or yellow or brown or olive or .. whatever colour.

May GOD give them wisdom to see this.

[hammered]

It is good someone has been arrested

[wlcart]

The more I read post about politics in the Kingdom now days  the more I realize many people  have their minds already made up about events that have not even happened yet, and as soon as they do happen, before gathering any facts, some claim to know exactly what occurred, by who, and why.  

I sure hope due process prevails.  It is a pretty mixed up crazy world here in Thailand these days, I suggest not to assume anything!

Could it have been the reds?, of course, could it have not been the reds, yes, that is possible too.  Stupid people do stupid things for stupid reasons, who knows what idiot decided to use violence and why.  But that stupid idiot probably didn't take a moment to consider the possibility they were wrong in their thinking.  

None of us should be stupid idiots in assuming we cannot be wrong ourselves.  All I am saying is everyone should try to look past appearances and get to some hard facts before drawing a conclusions.  

Let cooler heads prevail!

[Goattee]

Jingthing, on 2010-03-15 14:54:00, said:

They are losing. They didn't turn out. They are humiliated. They are FRUSTRATED and their face is badly damaged. This isn't crazy given the crowd we are dealing with (remember BLACK SONGKRAN), it is totally PREDICTABLE.

Also predictable, the pitiful red spin that is wasn't the reds who did this.

The phrase "plausible deniability" comes to mind. In the runup to these events, the "core leaders" of UDD have been saying essentially "pay no attention to Sae Daeng." But have all been flying into Dubai for multiple consultations for the past eight weeks or so. (Core leaders and Sae Daeng.)

The sad thing that rarely gets discussed is that the rural poor are not getting the fundamental attention they need. Sadder yet is the reality that they've been so disregarded that Thaksin's token gestures were enough to buy perpetual devotion. It's very hard to explain to my American friends that the red movement is a motley collection rural poor, a sprinkling of of ex-communist rebels, and academics seeking sociopolitical modernization-- all in the service of a corrupt opportunist multi-billionaire.  

Both sides (red and yellow) have grains of truth. But it's laughable that Thaksin's henchmen decry the "elites."

[Jingthing]

aussimike, on 2010-03-15 15:43:22, said:

Jingthing, on 2010-03-15 14:54:00, said:

Ulysses G., on 2010-03-15 14:51:22, said:

waza, on 2010-03-15 14:30:54, said:

Hmmm crazy move

Totally insane. It doesn't fit in with anything that has happened this weekend, now does it?

They are losing. They didn't turn out. They are humiliated. They are FRUSTRATED and their face is badly damaged. This isn't crazy given the crowd we are dealing with (remember BLACK SONGKRAN), it is totally PREDICTABLE.

Also predictable, the pitiful red spin that is wasn't the reds who did this.

another stupid yellow tainted comment - bet u even wear yellow pyjamas to bed -- what benefit would the reds get from doing this as there will be lots of stupid people just like yourself who immediately assume - that they did it -- assume -- make an ass of yourself --- talk about tunnel vision -- and they have not lost anything - getting world attention right now - major headlines on the BBC

Please keep your personal insults to yourself, OK?
I am not pro yellow, I am ANTI Thaksin. They are not the same thing. People who don't understand that basic fact have no understanding at all of current Thai politics.

Why would the reds start to get violent? Are you for real? They promised a million people. They failed miserably. They demanded Abhisit dissolve parliament. He refused, and rightly so. Again, they failed miserably. BTW, people who say negotiate are ridiculous because the red shirts offer only ONE firm demand. There is nothing to negotiate, you either cave to the red Thaksin mob, or you don't. With 100K people instead of a million, there is no real pressure to cave. However, Thaksin is very desperate and feels the need to win. What can he do now? Call it a loss? Of course not! Thus, the beginning of violence with the HOPE that the government will overreact and create a wave of public support for the reds that right now they do not have. There is your reason.

Edited by Jingthing, 2010-03-15 15:59:56.

[Gary A]

Who would gain from a grenade attack? Take a long look at the southern insurgents. What a great time to take some pressure off their efforts to kill and destroy.

[TerraPosse]

Jingthing, on 2010-03-15 08:54:00, said:

Ulysses G., on 2010-03-15 14:51:22, said:

waza, on 2010-03-15 14:30:54, said:

Hmmm crazy move

Totally insane. It doesn't fit in with anything that has happened this weekend, now does it?

They are losing. They didn't turn out. They are humiliated. They are FRUSTRATED and their face is badly damaged. This isn't crazy given the crowd we are dealing with (remember BLACK SONGKRAN), it is totally PREDICTABLE.

Also predictable, the pitiful red spin that is wasn't the reds who did this.

Dude, take a chill pill! 


I don't know what or who you have been watching but the crowds I have seen all weekend don't appear frustrated nor humiliated.  I know it must gall some of the red-shirt haters on here that all passed rather peacefully and in an atmosphere not unlike a festival so far.  Or why else do you keep bringing up "Black Songkran" like some kind of mantra in every other post of yours? 

As for who fired a grenade, I rather not join the quick-draw-assumption-club.  I rather wait to see some evidence before pointing fingers but whoever has done it, it sure was neither clever nor brave.

[Ricardo]

george, on 2010-03-15 15:01:43, said:

Grenades wound two soldiers amid Thai protests:

BANGKOK: --  (AFP) - Grenade attacks on a Bangkok military base Monday wounded two soldiers as tens of thousands of anti-government protesters massed at another barracks in the Thai capital, a military spokesman said.

Four M-79 grenades exploded at the base in the centre of the capital at 1:30 pm (0630 GMT), injuring one soldier in the arm and the other in the stomach, army spokesman Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd said.

"Initially we suspect that the grenades were fired from a car," said Sunsern. "At the moment we have no information on the perpetrators."

The incident happened as crowds of red-shirted protesters massed in front of the 11th infantry army barracks on Bangkok's northern outskirts, where the government has been holed up, to press their demand for snap elections.

<img src=http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/pics/afplogo.jpg target="_blank">
-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-15

Published with written approval from AFP.

Nowhereman60, on 2010-03-15 15:17:39, said:

The news article says an M79 grenade not 4. where does that 4 comes from???????????????????????  More Yellow shirt lies??????????

The source is AFP, just several posts up the page, so no, not "More Yellow shirt lies". But feel free to carry on throwing the red-herrings to the forum.