116 replies to this topic
Posted 2010-03-20 13:44:21
 SimonBSgp, on 2010-03-20 10:54:38, said:
says it all  thai_sin...l_trends.jpg.
westybrook, on 2010-03-19 21:03:16, said: thaibkk, on 2010-03-19 13:54:55, said: heard on thai news that tourist from europe and even other asean countries are avoiding LOS more and more...
soon LOS can add ER to their name...
what does it spell ?
It spells LOSER sir
That is in interesting chart.
The UN data on tourism show that Indonesia (probably Bali) and Malaysia are doing well, especially compared to Thailand.
Now you are showing that Singapore is doing better.
I am not sure what is going on in Cambodia, but I think many tourists to Cambodia first arrive in Thailand, then go on a visit to Cambodia, so the numbers are likely down.
Probably for Vietnam as well, but I do not know for sure.
The fact is that Thailand has been shooting itself in the foot for almost ten years with its xenophobic visa rules and "quality tourists" approach to tourists..........had they not done that, the numbers would not be down and/or the rate of growth would be much higher, however you want to look at it.
They have managed to upset virtually every income bracket of tourists.........expats (retired and potential).......investors. You name it.
Posted 2010-03-20 13:54:26
Many NE student graduate on time and are smart, motivated, good students. Many are from farming families. There are numerous professionals from N.E. and also have dark skin.
The racial thing is "wrong" although it is alive and well in Thailand. Thaksin is an educated and intelligent person and has accomplished positive things for thailand in addition to the negatives. I am unable to see him or any other red shirt leader in the same light as a Ghandi, MLK, King or Mandela/Biko.
Thaksins money and agenda will only propagate the circular thinking that many people are stuck in. I believe Thaksin is self serving and the rural poor are being used by him so he can get richer.
Circular thinking in Thailands rural poor is akin to welfare mentality in the USA. Why work/study when you can get your "checks for free and your money for nothing" It took welfare reforms to motivate many out of that pattern.
I don't see Thaksin telling anyone they must study, learn a trade or skill, do something better with their lives. Thaksin gives them a few baht when he needs their help or votes. He could be a true hero by building schools and hiring good teachers and sponsoring students to enroll.
When a society is more fair and just to all, everyone benefits, the rich get richer, and the poor can elevate themselves.
animatic, on 2010-03-19 20:48:55, said: eurasianthai, on 2010-03-19 20:23:30, said: Don't you have a saying in English: "Throwing the baby out with the bath water" ? 
I'd use, "Shooting the other foot."
Twice.
Way to go, getting sympathy from the middle class, who now can't go out with out extra hassle.
I know education is not up to par in the north, but hel_l after 12 years to get a Uni degree
maybe Jatupron went to a LOGIC class by accident?
Nah, he's never shown the slightest inclination towards logic,
only emotion, and that's only the negative ones.
Posted 2010-03-20 15:25:55
Jockey, on 2010-03-20 12:46:04, said: I support the red shirts cause. They had their votes stolen from them, they want democracy and don't want the unelected Bangkok elite. They deserve a new election.
jockey, you should know that if you put your money on a "juiced up" horse that gets disqualified, you've blown your dough. No use crying to the bookie, just wait for the next race and try an honest runner!
Posted 2010-03-20 15:38:48
Just been outside and thousands of Red Shirts travelling down the road.
Was all very friendly and many people smiling and shaking my hand.
I've been told if they ask you what you opinion is then you just say you hope everyone comes together and unites
Posted 2010-03-20 16:21:55
membob, on 2010-03-20 15:38:48, said: Just been outside and thousands of Red Shirts travelling down the road.
Was all very friendly and many people smiling and shaking my hand.
I've been told if they ask you what you opinion is then you just say you hope everyone comes together and unites
I was on Lat Phrao from around 11-3, and much the same as I saw. Took lots of photos... People were stopping and talking, seemed quite a few on the street supporting them. Some seemed indifferent, many seemed to just be watching, several waving flags.
I think they are wrong, I believe that Abhiset is doing a genuinely good job, and nothing would be gained from bringing Thaksin back. That would be a disaster. And it was obvious that Thaksin is what this is primarily about.
But the demonstrators seemed like good and decent people. They were friendly and polite, smiling and happy, some were toothless grannies, and some were cute tomboy types (I'm a woman who has a thing for tomboy types, good none of them beckoned me to join the rally 55555). You know if this movement were not all about Thaksin and had a coherent ideology, I could maybe support some elements as long as they renounced violence. I saw one truck as I was walking down my soi that said "Nonviolence" in large letters.
What I hope right now is that nothing happens. That shift their energies to the elections that will be held in a couple of years. I don't want to think about any of the happy, smiling people I saw today, or shook hands with, hurt, or to see any soldiers hurt. There was a small number of police, and there were some troops across the way from where I was, at the petrol station.
Lets hope. I don't think Abhiset should dissolve parliament or resign. I don't think Thaksin coming back is a good thing. But I think the government should court this base the way Thaksin did, woo them away from Thaksin. And perhaps as some have suggested, they should form a new political movement, purer than the politicians who now control it.
Granuaile
Posted 2010-03-20 19:13:49
*****************************************************************************
Ok
I was in Thailand and left for a business trip the day of the coup , or the Sunday just before , cant remember (the coup was on Monday)
I have a thai gf for twelve years and we have two kids
I do not contest that you know what happened or do not have your facts straight but so do I . Incidentally most of my farangs friends living in Thailand know a rat ass about thai politics , and at the time i did not have much interest in it either , so living in Thailand and knowing what happens are 2 different things . Anyway my interest changed when i saw the circus that this country and his people ,that i have come to love and respect, is going through .
Now back to the fact . Who is Thaksin ? Is he a crook ? Insofar as crook means breaking the law , no he is not a crook . He is far to smart for this and surrounded am sure by lawyers that are on the law even brighter then he is . He would not had lasted as PM had he done illegal things . Is he a dummy ? Not at all , quite the contrary he is very bright . What he is , is a ruthless businessman without moral or scruples that has exploited loopholes in the country legal an constitutional system to his advantage . Even in the sales of his shares in Shin Corp , he found loopholes in the country legal system to avoid him paying taxes . That is why he is morally bankrupt , if you are the PM of a country you dont avoid paying taxes even if there is ways of not doing so . Its a matter of morality and setting the example . That is only one example , there are many others of course , it would be too long to go thru each one of them
Yes the coup ,short of HM asking Thaksin to leave which would had been surely accepted by all thais , was probably the only way to get him to leave . But if a country constitution says the PM can be elected an unlimited number of time , who is to blame , the guy who get elected or the constitution . You see my point ? The coup was perhaps the only way but it was illegal . Then we had two PM pro Thaksin that were legally removed this time but on what many sees as mere technicalities to serve the agenda of "an elite" .
It is very contradictory that while most thais are afraid ,and as well they should be , of PM dictatorship , they have failed to establish a proper system of check and balances that ensure that dictatorship can not happen . Not limiting the number of time a PM can get elected was one of them . Having the legislative and executive branch not clearly separated is another . The parliament should vote the laws , censor the PM but absolutely not name the PM . That should be left to the people of Thailand thru direct elections , or HM or both . Also it should not be feasible for the parliament to change the constituton . The judiciary should also be totally independant of both the legislative and executive branch . Only then people with no moral like Thaksin can be prevented from keeping power for too long or becoming PM again if he returns . Right now is not fullproof , unless the PM host cooking shows that is ....
Now what happen is that the red shirts are organised [u]under someone whose acts were not illegal but immoral[/u] , perceiving that their just cause for a better life , where nobody took attention of them until Thaksin, has been persecuted ... And they are very unhappy and frustrated about it . To them they have been robbed of their rights as thai citizen . And that is the reason for their protest . In all honesty i cant blame them .
Well let see how Abhisit can navigate thru all this ....
[/quote]
Wow, you still don't know what Taksin did was illegal? There have been several things he has done that was illegal, guess you don't know there is an arrest warrant out for him because he was found guilty of abuse of power and corruption too numerous to mention all of things he did so just to mention a few, selling of government land to his wife, forcing the Foreign Ministry to approve a loan to burma that would secure a contact with his telecom company, filing false reports of assets holdings to the NACC and the list goes on and on.
Ahh the loophole you are talking about is the sale of a company on the stock market where you dont have to pay taxes, well Mr. Taksin set this up himself and then 2-3 months later sold the company to the Singapore govt. Not paying taxes via the loophole is not what was illegal, it's the fact that a Thai company can not be 100% owned by a foreigner in which the sale of his company did this, also since this was a telecom company it was consider a national security issue. Of course people were not happy about him not paying taxes, but this is not what he is in trouble for, it's for the abuse of power and corruption.
You are saying not full proof, are you saying there is a chance for Taksin to return? Do you really believe he has any chance to return to Thailand? Taksin even knows that there is no way he can return as once he steps in Thailand he as a two year jail sentence waiting for him. The only way he could return would be if he got a pardon from the King, which the king has refused to do so or if he decides he wants to spend two years in jail.
As for the red shirts protesting, they are being paid by Taksin, everyone knows this. They are puppets with no leadership or direction. Do I feel for the poor farmers, yes I do especially after what Taksin has done for them everyone says how he helped them, yes he provided loans to them and now they are in even more debt of which now the government keeps giving new loans to pay off the loan they have and keep adding the interest onto the new loans. Very nice of him to put the poor farmers into even more debt. You are only starting to pay attention now on what is going on and taking the side of Taksin without knowing all the facts, you should investigate things before you take sides and claim that he is not a crook. How can you claim that you have your facts straight...
[/quote]
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Again you read between the lines and conclude that anyone dont thinking the way you do dont have his facts straight .
a) I know fully well that there is a warrant of arrest for Thaksin . I also know that the things he did were done in such a way as to that judgement against him to be chalengeable in a court of law to say the least , when he did it . If they were outright illegal then how to you explain that Interpol of which Thailand is a signatory has not issued an international warrant of arrest ?
 I am perfectly aware of the other facts , sales of land to his wife , the Burma deal and his sales of ShinCorp shares in which he did not own 100% by the way . Again it was done in very clever way , it would most probably be chalengeable ina court of law . And I mentioned those under my sentence " there are many other examples " if you had taken the time to read properly , which obviously you did not . For your information restricting the sales of shares of a thai company to whomever foreign or domestic party has been tried under that one year serving PM the retired general that came after the coup , with the effect that foreign investment in Thailand dropped like a stone at that time , which is why Thaksin party came inpower again
c) I am taking the side of Thaksin ? Again you cant read properly , seriously you need a pair of glasses or else you suffer of delusion . Where did i take his side ? I said he is morally bankrupt , is that taking his side ? I also said that the constitution must be amended to prevent abuse of power like he did , just in case . Corruption is another thing but on that he is by far not the first one nor the last , look recently at the case at the health ministry just to keep you informed .
d) You believe what you want about the red shirts beeing his puppets , again because they dont think the way you do . My gf who is from Issan told me he did some good things , and on current protest he paid the bill because those are poor people , he did it for his own interest of course . Yet most of them have or will distance themselves from Thaksin and the trend is on the move as they become self conscious of the power they have which does not need Thaksin , new leaders will emerge , just be patient . Of course in your opinion it would have been better to do nothing for them and continue business as usual . They have genuine claims to more justice and more opportunities in their life . Which make me think that you have'nt investigated properly , please get the facts straight yourself and
stop thinking with your balls , think more with your head for a change . Good day .
Edited by moresomekl, 2010-03-20 19:33:47.
Posted 2010-03-20 19:28:24
OzMick, on 2010-03-20 16:25:55, said: Jockey, on 2010-03-20 12:46:04, said: I support the red shirts cause. They had their votes stolen from them, they want democracy and don't want the unelected Bangkok elite. They deserve a new election.
jockey, you should know that if you put your money on a "juiced up" horse that gets disqualified, you've blown your dough. No use crying to the bookie, just wait for the next race and try an honest runner!
Dont confuse the horse and its one time owner 
Posted 2010-03-20 21:17:22
Tanaka, on 2010-03-20 00:39:29, said: Chris Lawrence, on 2010-03-19 15:24:54, said: It sounds as though the Govt is pushing for a fight to start so they can go in and quell the disturbance? This way they won't look bad.
The Red shirts are beimg portrayed as protestors but have not breached the peace. However the Govt. appears to want to portray them as irresponsible. Up to date I haven't seen reports of this; oh the blood letting was a bit gross, but appears to be symbolic jesture.
Sounds more radical from reading TV and the comments of some posters.
"protestors have not breached the peace" Yeah right. And you, sir, are clearly not in Bangkok so please just keep to your television at home! You might even learn something. Maybe.
TV is Thai Visa? I just thouhgt I would help you to learn something?
People have the right to protest even in Bangkok. Not everyone live's in Bangkok, so there is a reliance on balanced reporting; u don't get this stuck infront of a Television. Hard to get any other medium other than the Nation on TV.
So what other forms of reporting would you suggest? 
Posted 2010-03-20 21:19:40
moresomekl, on 2010-03-20 20:28:24, said: OzMick, on 2010-03-20 16:25:55, said: Jockey, on 2010-03-20 12:46:04, said: I support the red shirts cause. They had their votes stolen from them, they want democracy and don't want the unelected Bangkok elite. They deserve a new election.
jockey, you should know that if you put your money on a "juiced up" horse that gets disqualified, you've blown your dough. No use crying to the bookie, just wait for the next race and try an honest runner!
Dont confuse the horse and its one time owner
 
Posted 2010-03-20 22:02:07
Chris Lawrence, on 2010-03-20 22:19:40, said: moresomekl, on 2010-03-20 20:28:24, said: OzMick, on 2010-03-20 16:25:55, said: Jockey, on 2010-03-20 12:46:04, said: I support the red shirts cause. They had their votes stolen from them, they want democracy and don't want the unelected Bangkok elite. They deserve a new election.
jockey, you should know that if you put your money on a "juiced up" horse that gets disqualified, you've blown your dough. No use crying to the bookie, just wait for the next race and try an honest runner!
Dont confuse the horse and its one time owner
Why have the poor chosen a morally compromised billionaire to be the leader of their movement? What have we done as a nation to cause these people from the rural provinces so much pain and suffering that they need to march on the capital to demand that their voices be heard? And have these people in the past been treated with the respect and fairness that all human beings deserve?
Posted 2010-03-21 13:06:49
Wow, you still don't know what Taksin did was illegal? There have been several things he has done that was illegal, guess you don't know there is an arrest warrant out for him because he was found guilty of abuse of power and corruption too numerous to mention all of things he did so just to mention a few, selling of government land to his wife, forcing the Foreign Ministry to approve a loan to burma that would secure a contact with his telecom company, filing false reports of assets holdings to the NACC and the list goes on and on.
Ahh the loophole you are talking about is the sale of a company on the stock market where you dont have to pay taxes, well Mr. Taksin set this up himself and then 2-3 months later sold the company to the Singapore govt. Not paying taxes via the loophole is not what was illegal, it's the fact that a Thai company can not be 100% owned by a foreigner in which the sale of his company did this, also since this was a telecom company it was consider a national security issue. Of course people were not happy about him not paying taxes, but this is not what he is in trouble for, it's for the abuse of power and corruption.
You are saying not full proof, are you saying there is a chance for Taksin to return? Do you really believe he has any chance to return to Thailand? Taksin even knows that there is no way he can return as once he steps in Thailand he as a two year jail sentence waiting for him. The only way he could return would be if he got a pardon from the King, which the king has refused to do so or if he decides he wants to spend two years in jail.
As for the red shirts protesting, they are being paid by Taksin, everyone knows this. They are puppets with no leadership or direction. Do I feel for the poor farmers, yes I do especially after what Taksin has done for them everyone says how he helped them, yes he provided loans to them and now they are in even more debt of which now the government keeps giving new loans to pay off the loan they have and keep adding the interest onto the new loans. Very nice of him to put the poor farmers into even more debt. You are only starting to pay attention now on what is going on and taking the side of Taksin without knowing all the facts, you should investigate things before you take sides and claim that he is not a crook. How can you claim that you have your facts straight...
[/quote]
*********************************************************************
Again you read between the lines and conclude that anyone dont thinking the way you do dont have his facts straight .
a) I know fully well that there is a warrant of arrest for Thaksin . I also know that the things he did were done in such a way as to that judgement against him to be chalengeable in a court of law to say the least , when he did it . If they were outright illegal then how to you explain that Interpol of which Thailand is a signatory has not issued an international warrant of arrest ?
I am perfectly aware of the other facts , sales of land to his wife , the Burma deal and his sales of ShinCorp shares in which he did not own 100% by the way . Again it was done in very clever way , it would most probably be chalengeable ina court of law . And I mentioned those under my sentence " there are many other examples " if you had taken the time to read properly , which obviously you did not . For your information restricting the sales of shares of a thai company to whomever foreign or domestic party has been tried under that one year serving PM the retired general that came after the coup , with the effect that foreign investment in Thailand dropped like a stone at that time , which is why Thaksin party came inpower again
c) I am taking the side of Thaksin ? Again you cant read properly , seriously you need a pair of glasses or else you suffer of delusion . Where did i take his side ? I said he is morally bankrupt , is that taking his side ? I also said that the constitution must be amended to prevent abuse of power like he did , just in case . Corruption is another thing but on that he is by far not the first one nor the last , look recently at the case at the health ministry just to keep you informed .
d) You believe what you want about the red shirts beeing his puppets , again because they dont think the way you do . My gf who is from Issan told me he did some good things , and on current protest he paid the bill because those are poor people , he did it for his own interest of course . Yet most of them have or will distance themselves from Thaksin and the trend is on the move as they become self conscious of the power they have which does not need Thaksin , new leaders will emerge , just be patient . Of course in your opinion it would have been better to do nothing for them and continue business as usual . They have genuine claims to more justice and more opportunities in their life . Which make me think that you have'nt investigated properly , please get the facts straight yourself and
[u]stop thinking with your balls , think more with your head for a change[/u] . Good day .
[/quote]
What are you talking about?
Do you know anything about owning a company in Thailand? I dont really understand exactly what you are saying, but it appears you are saying that when under military control that they initiated the rule about foreigner ownership. If this is what you are saying then you are incorrect. Thailand has had the rule to hold 51% ownership in any Thai company since the late 1980's, nothing to do with the military PM.
Again where am I trying to get anyone to think like me. Im pointing out things you said that are wrong and you keep going on and on.
You say you are not on Taksin side but you keep defending his actions, you say he is not a crook and that because interpol is not after him he is clearly not guiltily because the government set things up for him to be found guilty. (or am I reading between the lines again, if so then please explain what you are trying to say as this is the only thing I can take from you comment). As for Interpol, this is a cooperation between governments there is no actual division that goes out hunting people down. You do know England pulled his visa so he could not come there anymore as did the USA and several other countries why do you think they did this because he is a wanted man. So if you are not defending Taksin then way do you keep saying he is not really guilty? Also I never said that the guy did not do anything good, I'm justing pointing out to you that he is corrupt and used his position as PM for personnel gain at the cost of the government, this is why there is a arrest warrant out for him.
You tell me to get my facts straight, what fact did I state that was wrong? You say you Gf tells you that Taksin did some good, so you dont know what he did or did not do? yes he tried to do some good, he started the health care program but this ended up not working so well it is only after Abhist took office that changes were made to the program where it started working as it was intended, but Taksin did try. As I stated early Taksin provided loans for the farmers, which allot of them think this is great, but these are loans and need to be paid back and that is the problem, which now most of them cant pay back those loans, that is why many Issan people that used to like him no dont like him. Please Ask your Gf what else he did to help the farmers as I'm interested in knowing if there were other things he did that im not aware of.
As for the Red shirts, you say they are not puppets, but then admit he is paying the bills, if he did not pay the bills would they be there protesting I don't think so. You are correct he is paying the bills for his own agenda, which he is using the red shirts to do that so how is that not being a puppet. Now do you know what the red shirts really want? I assume a you are going to say new election, ah yes this will solve all the problems for the poor farmers. A new election and what will happen another corrupt government, nothing will change. What they need to be protesting for is for better eduction and a fight against corruption, as this is what they need but it needs to be more than just the poor Issan farmer it needs to me a major movement. Until the people are well educated to think properly and not just do as they are told and stop corruption at the street level it's going to be business as usual.
Posted 2010-03-21 13:59:56
So, political discussion aside, just curious if anyone has had significant problems due to this weekends protests?
#113
tod-daniels
Posted 2010-03-21 14:23:09
Other than the Sukhumvit being jammed by the Red Shirts' parade (or mobile protest) when I went to the Khlong Toei wet market there was little to really impact most thais day to day life.
I did see some yellow shirts on the side of the roads when the reds went by yelling, but it seemed they were more vexed than angry and even the reds which were standing next to them didn't take offence. 
Much ado about nothing I'm afraid.
I would what we would do without disenfranchised people in the world to keep things interesting?? 
Posted 2010-03-21 15:52:45
The vast majority of people, including me, enjoyed the day...despite the dire newspaper warning.
Posted 2010-03-21 16:37:27
Somebody on one of these threads recently posted some astute comments on how much things have improved in Isaan since Thaksin was sent packing. I've seen the same thing, so know somebody somewhere is doing something right.
Posted 2010-03-21 17:15:54
From your uninformed post one might conclude that you yourself are a tourist... Tourism accounts for a very small portion of the Thai GDP and tourist arrivals will bounce back once the red mobs go home (which they've already started to do). (bikebkk)
Tourism is very important to Thailand. Without the high levels of people coming into Thailand
the country would probably be about the same level as Cambodia.............. maybe a little
better but too much.
Posted 2010-03-21 18:02:25
kevozman1, on 2010-03-21 17:15:54, said: From your uninformed post one might conclude that you yourself are a tourist... Tourism accounts for a very small portion of the Thai GDP and tourist arrivals will bounce back once the red mobs go home (which they've already started to do). (bikebkk)
Tourism is very important to Thailand. Without the high levels of people coming into Thailand
the country would probably be about the same level as Cambodia.............. maybe a little
better but too much.
Without Tourism Thailand would still be far ahead of Cambodia, Cambodia has very little industry compared to Thailand. Looking at the GDP Bikebkk is correct Tourism is only about 8% of the GDP, where as Industry the GDP is about 35%, do realize how many products Thailand manufactures and exports? Now I do agree Tourism is very important to Thailand, but loosing it would not throw us back to where Cambodia is. However there is no indication tourism is going be down.
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