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[elcent]

anotherpeter, on 2010-03-22 13:07:23, said:

elcent, on 2010-03-22 13:02:51, said:

I think a land tax would be wrong at this time, but a progressive income/wealth tax, hmmm nice dough to make.

Remember in Sweden, Abba once made huge profits and through the law they were threatened to pay 110% tax which then forced them to invest their profit and so keep the money rotating and not carried/stored away for the big coup of total control.

There is income tax now.  Rich people know how to get around it.  Where do you even start with a wealth tax?  Too many valuations required, which then opens it up to corruption.

This why I'd hit them on their value and not on cash flow and one would see how things can change quickly.

Being afraid of corruption? Why not forget about anything then? (pun intended)

[monkfish]

animatic, on 2010-03-22 12:29:19, said:

One might supose it would free up some arable land
because people want the land to pay it's tax base.

But the other hand rented land would likely also have that tax passed on
to the poor renters, not paid by the puyai  owner....

I agree many poor rent there land from the rich.
Therefore this tax will be a tax on the poor.
There is also a lot of land that isn't registered in any form, I have relatives who bought such land.
Can't see this project succeeding in the near future.

Inheritance Tax of 50% would work better.

[Samuian]

monkfish, on 2010-03-22 13:16:04, said:

animatic, on 2010-03-22 12:29:19, said:

One might supose it would free up some arable land
because people want the land to pay it's tax base.

But the other hand rented land would likely also have that tax passed on
to the poor renters, not paid by the puyai  owner....

I agree many poor rent there land from the rich.
Therefore this tax will be a tax on the poor.
There is also a lot of land that isn't registered in any form, I have relatives who bought such land.
Can't see this project succeeding in the near future.

Inheritance Tax of 50% would work better.

Well how many rai farmland does the average "Somchai" own in Thailand 5, 10, 20 Rai?

Tax anything above that!

A genuine Land Tax, those who work the land and say size and generated income thereof....
could be considered whilst levying the tax, well I would go for PLUS inheritance tax!

Edited by Samuian, 2010-03-22 13:21:44.

[Thai at Heart]

monkfish, on 2010-03-22 06:16:04, said:

animatic, on 2010-03-22 12:29:19, said:

One might supose it would free up some arable land
because people want the land to pay it's tax base.

But the other hand rented land would likely also have that tax passed on
to the poor renters, not paid by the puyai  owner....

I agree many poor rent there land from the rich.
Therefore this tax will be a tax on the poor.
There is also a lot of land that isn't registered in any form, I have relatives who bought such land.
Can't see this project succeeding in the near future.

Inheritance Tax of 50% would work better.

We have just witnessed one of the most protracted cases disputing ownership of assets transferred from parents to their children.  They can't even decide ownership of a publically quoted company.  How about 1/2 a rai in Umphur Gonowhere.  If you think corruption is rife, wait until they really wealthy would declare their assets at death.  Gazzilionaires would die without a pot to piss in.  If they put a time limit such as transfer of assets in the previous 5 years, I could imagine families keeping grandad alive for 5 years and a minute on life support just to avoid tax.

I would suggest that Thailand will be ready for an inheritance tax in about 50 years.  Abhisit doesn't have enough lives to make inheritance tax swing anyway.

If the land isn't registered, no tax to pay.  I am not too concerned about poor farmers paying 200 baht to a land owner to pay the tax.  This will get passed into the prices of the products eventually.  200 baht on a rai's worth of rice is affordable for all consumers.

What is more important is that huge tracts of unused land starts to attract some form of taxation.  If your relatives just bought some unregistered land, I would hope that they would want to "chuay chart' and pay their taxes.  

Flat rate per rai.  Pure simple and the government has all the info in it's hands to do it tomorrow.

[Ricardo]

Thai at Heart, on 2010-03-22 11:51:29, said:

I can't see that Abhisit will be able to make this pass.  This tax runs straight into the heart of the concept of how this country works.  He is an amazingly brave man for even trying to propose it.  The opposition to this is not split on party lines, rather it is purely based on economic lines.

This attempt clearly shows, PM-Abhisit isn't wholly the elite-controlled puppet, which many might claim. He is willing to put his job on-the-line, to do what he thinks is necessary, this might lose him power in the short-run, but he's young enough to have a long future in Thai politics ahead of him.

Any such tax needs to be set high-enough to be worth collecting, the government needs to avoid the 30-Baht hospital-care administration-cost pitfall, but low-enough so that it won't cause a serious backlash, when it's passed-on to the people actually using the land. That was Maggie Thatcher's Poll-Tax mistake !

But the government needs to raise more tax, to fund the hospitals and education-reforms properly, it simply can't continue to rely on the World Bank or selling 30-year zero-coupon bonds to Singapore, in the long-run it has to balance its books.

I wonder what alternatives the PTP would propose ? Has former-PM Thaksin yet made any firm proposals, apart from promising that only he knows the economic-answers, and to give him 'his' money back ?

[Thai at Heart]

Ricardo, on 2010-03-22 07:04:11, said:

Thai at Heart, on 2010-03-22 11:51:29, said:

I can't see that Abhisit will be able to make this pass.  This tax runs straight into the heart of the concept of how this country works.  He is an amazingly brave man for even trying to propose it.  The opposition to this is not split on party lines, rather it is purely based on economic lines.

This attempt clearly shows, PM-Abhisit isn't wholly the elite-controlled puppet, which many might claim. He is willing to put his job on-the-line, to do what he thinks is necessary, this might lose him power in the short-run, but he's young enough to have a long future in Thai politics ahead of him.

Any such tax needs to be set high-enough to be worth collecting, the government needs to avoid the 30-Baht hospital-care administration-cost pitfall, but low-enough so that it won't cause a serious backlash, when it's passed-on to the people actually using the land. That was Maggie Thatcher's Poll-Tax mistake !

But the government needs to raise more tax, to fund the hospitals and education-reforms properly, it simply can't continue to rely on the World Bank or selling 30-year zero-coupon bonds to Singapore, in the long-run it has to balance its books.

I wonder what alternatives the PTP would propose ? Has former-PM Thaksin yet made any firm proposals, apart from promising that only he knows the economic-answers, and to give him 'his' money back ?

All well and true.  I wish him all the will in the world to make it fly.  

I would suggest that simply getting the law on the books would be an achievement before he worries about a backlash.  If he introduces a 1baht per rai tax there will be uproar among some pretty important people in the country.  That said, whilst it wouldn't be as momentous as Obama's health care reform, it would be a very memorable day for Thailand if he gets it done.

I don't think he and Korn would have proposed what they propose without working out how to fund it.  Abhisit and Korn were shoe horned into the job because they were supposedly very competent. With the education they have I wouldn't expect them to cook up a complete mess.

The poor can't pay, the middle don't want to pay, the really wealthy can dodge.  What is the easiest and most identifiable asset to tax?  Land.

[moo9]

craigt3365, on 2010-03-20 10:15:02, said:

richard10365, on 2010-03-20 09:58:16, said:

If it wasn't for the media, I would never know anything is happening in Bangkok. Life in Chiang Mai seems as normal as always.

Same everywhere other than Bangkok.  Love the city, but glad I don't live there right now!

Just saw the Aljazeera interview of Abhisit.  I have seen him on TV before, but only when speaking Thai.  His English is perfect, though he does have a bit of that funny English accent.  Just kidding!

Definitely a smart man.  Easy going, cool, great answers.  Not like the rants of Thaksin.

Indeed he is playing in another league compared with Veera Musigapong, Jatuporn Phromphan, Jakrapob Penkair, Nattawut Sai-kua and others.
Could you imagine one of these guys could become the PM of the Kingdom. Hard to imagine. They lack everything. It would be a shame for the country. And T. is out of question. I think almost 40 - 50 % of the Thai certainly would not accept him as PM again, so the story would start from the beginning.

[moo9]

Ricardo, on 2010-03-22 14:04:11, said:

I wonder what alternatives the PTP would propose ? Has former-PM Thaksin yet made any firm proposals, apart from promising that only he knows the economic-answers, and to give him 'his' money back ?

T. is Mr Super T! He can make anything possible. When he was Governor in BKK he promised to solve the traffic jam problems within 6 months and now I think he promised to turn each North Easterner to a wealthy person within the same period. What a cheap and irresponsible propaganda!

[Samuian]

moo9, on 2010-03-22 15:03:15, said:

craigt3365, on 2010-03-20 10:15:02, said:

richard10365, on 2010-03-20 09:58:16, said:

If it wasn't for the media, I would never know anything is happening in Bangkok. Life in Chiang Mai seems as normal as always.

Same everywhere other than Bangkok.  Love the city, but glad I don't live there right now!

Just saw the Aljazeera interview of Abhisit.  I have seen him on TV before, but only when speaking Thai.  His English is perfect, though he does have a bit of that funny English accent.  Just kidding!

Definitely a smart man.  Easy going, cool, great answers.  Not like the rants of Thaksin.

Indeed he is playing in another league compared with Veera Musigapong, Jatuporn Phromphan, Jakrapob Penkair, Nattawut Sai-kua and others.
Could you imagine one of these guys could become the PM of the Kingdom. Hard to imagine. They lack everything. It would be a shame for the country. And T. is out of question. I think almost 40 - 50 % of the Thai certainly would not accept him as PM again, so the story would start from the beginning.

Don;t worry it won't happen!

That nothing much happens to them right now is they don;t have much of an impact anyway, and that little they can drum up... is fading.. how embarrassing, but as long as they get paid, why shouldn't they go on?

If Rajdamnoern was a "sea of red", try to consider what happens if they (Veera Musigapong, Jatuporn Phromphan, Jakrapob Penkair, Nattawut Sai-kua) however manage to get into parliament and mess with the constitution, the judiciary and the countries assets, have Mr.Thaksin and 111 Politicians pardoned and get back to square one... you haven't seen anything till then! - believe me!

The passive people here in Thailand are the far larger group, they will only move if they see / feel their very own self and freedom threatened, they are last not least Thai, see the last peace campaign, quiet, calm and collected, the majority is embarrassed with this kind of behavior as the red shirts are displaying it - believe me or better just have a good look around and ask some genuine people not those with the "war drums" funny infantile clappers!

[Jerrytheyoung]

Samuian, on 2010-03-22 16:15:30, said:

The passive people here in Thailand are the far larger group, they will only move if they see / feel their very own self and freedom threatened, they are last not least Thai, see the last peace campaign, quiet, calm and collected, the majority is embarrassed with this kind of behavior as the red shirts are displaying it - believe me or better just have a good look around and ask some genuine people not those with the "war drums" funny infantile clappers!

Who is beating the "war drums"? Is not it some irresponsible guys launching exagerate or fake informations like the 6,000 weapons story or the bombings - which are in reality firecrackers? They are in auto-excitation mode and I am afraid but the Red "Mob" is cool a lot more cool that the other ones. So who are the infantile clappers? The medias supporting the Government?

[craigt3365]

Jerrytheyoung, on 2010-03-22 16:11:12, said:

Samuian, on 2010-03-22 16:15:30, said:

The passive people here in Thailand are the far larger group, they will only move if they see / feel their very own self and freedom threatened, they are last not least Thai, see the last peace campaign, quiet, calm and collected, the majority is embarrassed with this kind of behavior as the red shirts are displaying it - believe me or better just have a good look around and ask some genuine people not those with the "war drums" funny infantile clappers!

Who is beating the "war drums"? Is not it some irresponsible guys launching exagerate or fake informations like the 6,000 weapons story or the bombings - which are in reality firecrackers? They are in auto-excitation mode and I am afraid but the Red "Mob" is cool a lot more cool that the other ones. So who are the infantile clappers? The medias supporting the Government?

Isn't Seh Daeng's assistant in jail for beating some "war drums"?

[Jerrytheyoung]

craigt3365, on 2010-03-22 17:28:57, said:

Jerrytheyoung, on 2010-03-22 16:11:12, said:

Samuian, on 2010-03-22 16:15:30, said:

The passive people here in Thailand are the far larger group, they will only move if they see / feel their very own self and freedom threatened, they are last not least Thai, see the last peace campaign, quiet, calm and collected, the majority is embarrassed with this kind of behavior as the red shirts are displaying it - believe me or better just have a good look around and ask some genuine people not those with the "war drums" funny infantile clappers!

Who is beating the "war drums"? Is not it some irresponsible guys launching exagerate or fake informations like the 6,000 weapons story or the bombings - which are in reality firecrackers? They are in auto-excitation mode and I am afraid but the Red "Mob" is cool a lot more cool that the other ones. So who are the infantile clappers? The medias supporting the Government?

Isn't Seh Daeng's assistant in jail for beating some "war drums"?

So from his jail he cannot beat any 'war drums" remain on the wild only the others...

[way2muchcoffee]

elcent, on 2010-03-22 13:02:51, said:

I think a land tax would be wrong at this time, but a progressive income/wealth tax, hmmm nice dough to make.

Remember in Sweden, Abba once made huge profits and through the law they were threatened to pay 110% tax which then forced them to invest their profit and so keep the money rotating and not carried/stored away for the big coup of total control.

The income tax system is already progressive, but it could be much more so.

[wayfarer108]

mca, on 2010-03-21 08:19:08, said:

As a slight aside my wife's friend visited us last night for a chat.

Some of her staff had taken leave to attend the rally in Bangkok and prior to their departure attended a meeting of about 200 protesters. She went along to see what makes them tick.

Apparently Thaksin was hardly mentioned but there was some extremely derogatory language being thrown around (which I can't repeat but I can assure you in Thai  it was very rude) regarding somebody to the vast approval of the crowd by her account.

No need to mention him. The huge billboard with his face front and centre on every stage says it all, along with the mobile placards and portraits.