Posted 2010-03-23 07:59:55
 khunjamespittman, on 2010-03-23 07:07:25, said:
anotherpeter, on 2010-03-22 08:44:52, said: CLOD, on 2010-03-22 07:28:31, said: I wonder if the Chart Thai statement has been made following any consultation with their constituants?
How often do political parties in any democratic country go back to the constituents before making a decision?
They were elected by the people to be their represenatives in parliament.
If the MPs don't do what the electorate wants, then they don't get elected in the next election.
I would hope that most members of Parliment don't share your view of Representative Democracy.
In most legitimate Representative Democracies the elective elected representatives usually maintain Constituent Offices where they continuosly consult with their constituents and assist with their problems to understand how thay want to be represented.
Yes, in "most legitimate Representative Democracies"
I see you forget where you are... or rather prefer to just talk hypothetically.
'Real Politique' in Thailand must be worked as it IS not as YOU wish.
It gradually will change for the batter, but not at our preferred speed,
nor in our preferred way or path.
Utopian ideals are wonderful, in a class room, but where the rubber meets the road,
is where things must really be done as they CAN be done.
When Banharn was a Thaksin ally, only a few years back,
I wonder how often his party MPs were in"consultation with their constituents"?
Or just with Thaksin and his bagmen?
Edited by animatic, 2010-03-23 08:03:02.
Posted 2010-03-23 08:13:20
I'm sure Chart Thai has its arse covered in this. Their voters back home don't pay much if any attention to these matters. Chart Thai relatively has been around for some time as a continuing political party so it has plenty of people back in the constitutencies and back home watching the party's back.
Posted 2010-03-23 08:29:31
Many upcountry MP’s are elected based on their surname, which coincidently is often the same as the local godfather. They can belong to any party and any coalition and they will get elected every time.
TH
Posted 2010-03-23 08:35:16
thaihome, on 2010-03-23 01:29:31, said: Many upcountry MP’s are elected based on their surname, which coincidently is often the same as the local godfather. They can belong to any party and any coalition and they will get elected every time.
TH
I am not so sure that all of those caught up in the switching coalition partner mess this time around will find it quite so easy. Would be a great development for Thailand to see the stranglehold they have on their locality broken. Let's not forget though that the farmers aren't going to have a good time of it this year and if their elected godfather's relatives don't bring home the bacon, it won't look so good.
Posted 2010-03-23 10:28:20
Thai at Heart, on 2010-03-22 09:54:32, said: One of the clearest things that should happen, would be for the party leaders to declare before the election, with whom they would partner in a coalition. Of course, that would mean some kind of a manifesto. I mean telling your constituents what you plan to do once in power would require a level of political sophistication not yet around in Thailand.
They often do do that, it just doesn't mean much. Most of the minor parties campaigned that they would not form a government with the PPP, yet they did for a time.
Edited by DP25, 2010-03-23 10:39:09.
Posted 2010-03-23 10:31:16
DP25, on 2010-03-23 03:28:20, said: Thai at Heart, on 2010-03-22 09:54:32, said: One of the clearest things that should happen, would be for the party leaders to declare before the election, with whom they would partner in a coalition. Of course, that would mean some kind of a manifesto. I mean telling your constituents what you plan to do once in power would require a level of political sophistication not yet around in Thailand.
They often do do that, it just doesn't mean much. Most of the minority parties campaigned that they would not form a government with the PPP, yet they did for a time.
Well in that case, if the people feel disappointed that their votes were wasted because their candidate switched sides, I won't have one iota of sympathy for them if the people vote for the same guy again.
The UDD/Reds cannot complain about duplicity and Abhisit's illegitimate government if the parties that switched continue to hold their level of votes next time around.
Posted 2010-03-23 13:48:08
Thai at Heart, on 2010-03-23 10:31:16, said: Well in that case, if the people feel disappointed that their votes were wasted because their candidate switched sides, I won't have one iota of sympathy for them if the people vote for the same guy again.
The UDD/Reds cannot complain about duplicity and Abhisit's illegitimate government if the parties that switched continue to hold their level of votes next time around.
The UDD/Reds probably didn't vote for them in the first place. They are angry because MPs that they didn't vote for or from other electorates changed sides.
They reds can't do anything about other areas voting the minor parties back in if that's what the electorate wants.
Posted 2010-03-23 14:15:09
anotherpeter, on 2010-03-23 06:48:08, said: Thai at Heart, on 2010-03-23 10:31:16, said: Well in that case, if the people feel disappointed that their votes were wasted because their candidate switched sides, I won't have one iota of sympathy for them if the people vote for the same guy again.
The UDD/Reds cannot complain about duplicity and Abhisit's illegitimate government if the parties that switched continue to hold their level of votes next time around.
The UDD/Reds probably didn't vote for them in the first place. They are angry because MPs that they didn't vote for or from other electorates changed sides.
They reds can't do anything about other areas voting the minor parties back in if that's what the electorate wants.
Well, certain parties were expected to ally with the PTP, and others not. After the election they didn't hold to their promises If people don't see that as a betrayal that is up to them. The problem is the lack of any political principles in most of parties.
Please confirm, the MP's who make up BJT stood under who's banner at the last election. Was it NDP which was only formed in 2006, ? I am so bemused by the whole mess, I can't remember. From what I can decipher, there are 6 parties in the current election, 5 of which were formed in 2007 or later and mostly born out of being banned for various bits of electoral fraud.
If people want to vote for them that is up to them. It will be interesting to see if the reported political treachery by Newin and his bunch bites them on the backside. If it doesn't then more fool the people.
Interestingly, is this wikepedia entry true?
http://en.wikipedia....otherland_Party
Quote Its most notable members include Thaksin's former foreign minister Surakiart Sathirathai, Suranand Vejjajiva and Preecha Laohaphongchanaand notably it is composed of both former TRT members and former TRT opponents
There is another Vejjajiva sitting in the parliament?
Edited by Thai at Heart, 2010-03-23 14:15:42.
Posted 2010-03-24 12:37:58
Countdown towards the General Election
As part of the preparations for the general election on 23 December 2007, the Election Commission invited political parties to submit lists of candidates in the general election under the proportional representation during the period from 7 to 11 November 2007. A total of 31 political parties registered to compete in all or some of the eight electoral areas and drew ballots for the numbers under which they would run.
Number Political Parties
1 Puea Pandin Party
2 Rum Jai Thai Chart Pattana Party
3 The Farmer Network of Thailand Party
4 Democrat Party
5 The Farmer Force Party
6 Rakmuangthai Party
7 Labour Party
8 Thai Farmer Party
9 Pracharaj Party
10 Thai Law Jurisprudence Party
11 Pattana Prachathippatai Party
12 People Power Party
13 Chartthai Party
14 Damrongthai Party
15 Matchimathipataya Party
16 Chart Samuccee Party
17 New Aspiration Party
18 Thai Citizen Party
19 Prachamati Party
20 Free Thai Party
21 Palang Pandin Thai Party
22 Mahachon Party
23 The Moral Party
24 Ratsadonrakthai Party
25 Kirs Thai Maankong Party
26 Yudi Misuk Party
27 Thai Rum Ruay Party
28 Independent Party
29 Power Ground Party
30 Sangkomdhibataya
31 The Num Vidhi Party
Quote • Summary of the 23 December 2007 House of Representatives of Thailand Thai general election results
* Party Constituency Proportional TOTAL Votes % Seats Votes % Seats
- People's Power Party 26,293,456 36.63 199 14,071,799 39.60 34 233
- Democrat Party 21,745,696 30.30 132 14,084,265 39.63 33 165
- Thai Nation Party 6,363,475 8.87 33 1,545,282 4.35 4 37
- For the Motherland 6,599,422 9.19 17 1,981,021 5.57 7 24
- Thais United National Development Party 3,395,197 4.73 8 948,544 2.67 1 9
- Neutral Democratic Party 3,844,673 5.36 7 528,464 1.49 0 7
- Royalist People's Party 1,632,795 2.27 4 750,158 2.11 1 5
- Others 1,897,953 2.64 — 1,626,234 4.58 — 0
- Valid votes 71,772,667* 100 400 35,535,767 100 80 480
- No Votes 906,216 2.32
- Invalid Votes 2,539,429 6.51
- Total Turnout 38,981,412 85.38
It seems 39 MILLION did turn out to vote.
But the 28 so often bandined about here.
Thus reducing the PTP / RedShirt rally percentage of voters down to
0.25% of voters
1/4 of one percent of 2007 election voters were trying to bring down the government
last weekend and screaming that they have a huge mandate to do this.
But out of VALID VOTES... 71,772,667 ( read; voters get to vote more than once...)
Only 0.139 % of valid votes are deemed as Reds complaining.
Not exactly a resounding plurality....
This is a Thaksin controling the PTP, controling the Red Shirts rampaging in the street,
naked power grab attempt disguised as a Democracy movement, using old Communists as foot soldiers.
Has a new benchmark of hypocrisy been set in the Land Of Shinola!
Oh yes! National Government too!
And Impeach the PM for protecting the Parliament building...
Oh we had to WALK... boo hoo.
Edited by animatic, 2010-03-24 12:55:55.
Posted 2010-03-24 13:47:05
khunjamespittman, on 2010-03-23 08:07:25, said: anotherpeter, on 2010-03-22 08:44:52, said: CLOD, on 2010-03-22 07:28:31, said: I wonder if the Chart Thai statement has been made following any consultation with their constituants?
How often do political parties in any democratic country go back to the constituents before making a decision?
They were elected by the people to be their represenatives in parliament.
If the MPs don't do what the electorate wants, then they don't get elected in the next election.
I would hope that most members of Parliment don't share your view of Representative Democracy.
In most legitimate Representative Democracies the elective elected representatives usually maintain Constituent Offices where they continuosly consult with their constituents and assist with their problems to understand how thay want to be represented.
55555555555
Most in the US were against the Health Care Reform Bill but it passed anyway. Polititions do what they want.
Posted 2010-03-24 13:57:04
animatic, on 2010-03-24 13:37:58, said: Countdown towards the General Election
As part of the preparations for the general election on 23 December 2007, the Election Commission invited political parties to submit lists of candidates in the general election under the proportional representation during the period from 7 to 11 November 2007. A total of 31 political parties registered to compete in all or some of the eight electoral areas and drew ballots for the numbers under which they would run.
Number Political Parties
1 Puea Pandin Party
2 Rum Jai Thai Chart Pattana Party
3 The Farmer Network of Thailand Party
4 Democrat Party
5 The Farmer Force Party
6 Rakmuangthai Party
7 Labour Party
8 Thai Farmer Party
9 Pracharaj Party
10 Thai Law Jurisprudence Party
11 Pattana Prachathippatai Party
12 People Power Party
13 Chartthai Party
14 Damrongthai Party
15 Matchimathipataya Party
16 Chart Samuccee Party
17 New Aspiration Party
18 Thai Citizen Party
19 Prachamati Party
20 Free Thai Party
21 Palang Pandin Thai Party
22 Mahachon Party
23 The Moral Party
24 Ratsadonrakthai Party
25 Kirs Thai Maankong Party
26 Yudi Misuk Party
27 Thai Rum Ruay Party
28 Independent Party
29 Power Ground Party
30 Sangkomdhibataya
31 The Num Vidhi Party
Quote • Summary of the 23 December 2007 House of Representatives of Thailand Thai general election results
* Party Constituency Proportional TOTAL Votes % Seats Votes % Seats
- People's Power Party 26,293,456 36.63 199 14,071,799 39.60 34 233
- Democrat Party 21,745,696 30.30 132 14,084,265 39.63 33 165
- Thai Nation Party 6,363,475 8.87 33 1,545,282 4.35 4 37
- For the Motherland 6,599,422 9.19 17 1,981,021 5.57 7 24
- Thais United National Development Party 3,395,197 4.73 8 948,544 2.67 1 9
- Neutral Democratic Party 3,844,673 5.36 7 528,464 1.49 0 7
- Royalist People's Party 1,632,795 2.27 4 750,158 2.11 1 5
- Others 1,897,953 2.64 — 1,626,234 4.58 — 0
- Valid votes 71,772,667* 100 400 35,535,767 100 80 480
- No Votes 906,216 2.32
- Invalid Votes 2,539,429 6.51
- Total Turnout 38,981,412 85.38
It seems 39 MILLION did turn out to vote.
But the 28 so often bandined about here.
Thus reducing the PTP / RedShirt rally percentage of voters down to
0.25% of voters
1/4 of one percent of 2007 election voters were trying to bring down the government
last weekend and screaming that they have a huge mandate to do this.
But out of VALID VOTES... 71,772,667 ( read; voters get to vote more than once...)
Only 0.139 % of valid votes are deemed as Reds complaining.
Not exactly a resounding plurality....
This is a Thaksin controling the PTP, controling the Red Shirts rampaging in the street,
naked power grab attempt disguised as a Democracy movement, using old Communists as foot soldiers.
Has a new benchmark of hypocrisy been set in the Land Of Shinola!
Oh yes! National Government too!
And Impeach the PM for protecting the Parliament building...
Oh we had to WALK... boo hoo.
Wow. Get them with the facts. They can't stand facts.
Posted 2010-03-24 14:08:48
rametindallas, on 2010-03-24 13:57:04, said: Wow. Get them with the facts. They can't stand facts.
That's for sure. But they keep coming back with the same tired lines.
TH
Posted 2010-03-24 14:50:18
rametindallas, on 2010-03-24 13:57:04, said: animatic, on 2010-03-24 13:37:58, said: Countdown towards the General Election
As part of the preparations for the general election on 23 December 2007, the Election Commission invited political parties to submit lists of candidates in the general election under the proportional representation during the period from 7 to 11 November 2007. A total of 31 political parties registered to compete in all or some of the eight electoral areas and drew ballots for the numbers under which they would run.
Number Political Parties
1 Puea Pandin Party
2 Rum Jai Thai Chart Pattana Party
3 The Farmer Network of Thailand Party
4 Democrat Party
5 The Farmer Force Party
6 Rakmuangthai Party
7 Labour Party
8 Thai Farmer Party
9 Pracharaj Party
10 Thai Law Jurisprudence Party
11 Pattana Prachathippatai Party
12 People Power Party
13 Chartthai Party
14 Damrongthai Party
15 Matchimathipataya Party
16 Chart Samuccee Party
17 New Aspiration Party
18 Thai Citizen Party
19 Prachamati Party
20 Free Thai Party
21 Palang Pandin Thai Party
22 Mahachon Party
23 The Moral Party
24 Ratsadonrakthai Party
25 Kirs Thai Maankong Party
26 Yudi Misuk Party
27 Thai Rum Ruay Party
28 Independent Party
29 Power Ground Party
30 Sangkomdhibataya
31 The Num Vidhi Party
Quote • Summary of the 23 December 2007 House of Representatives of Thailand Thai general election results
* Party Constituency Proportional TOTAL Votes % Seats Votes % Seats
- People's Power Party 26,293,456 36.63 199 14,071,799 39.60 34 233
- Democrat Party 21,745,696 30.30 132 14,084,265 39.63 33 165
- Thai Nation Party 6,363,475 8.87 33 1,545,282 4.35 4 37
- For the Motherland 6,599,422 9.19 17 1,981,021 5.57 7 24
- Thais United National Development Party 3,395,197 4.73 8 948,544 2.67 1 9
- Neutral Democratic Party 3,844,673 5.36 7 528,464 1.49 0 7
- Royalist People's Party 1,632,795 2.27 4 750,158 2.11 1 5
- Others 1,897,953 2.64 — 1,626,234 4.58 — 0
- Valid votes 71,772,667* 100 400 35,535,767 100 80 480
- No Votes 906,216 2.32
- Invalid Votes 2,539,429 6.51
- Total Turnout 38,981,412 85.38
It seems 39 MILLION did turn out to vote.
But the 28 so often bandined about here.
Thus reducing the PTP / RedShirt rally percentage of voters down to
0.25% of voters
1/4 of one percent of 2007 election voters were trying to bring down the government
last weekend and screaming that they have a huge mandate to do this.
But out of VALID VOTES... 71,772,667 ( read; voters get to vote more than once...)
Only 0.139 % of valid votes are deemed as Reds complaining.
Not exactly a resounding plurality....
This is a Thaksin controling the PTP, controling the Red Shirts rampaging in the street,
naked power grab attempt disguised as a Democracy movement, using old Communists as foot soldiers.
Has a new benchmark of hypocrisy been set in the Land Of Shinola!
Oh yes! National Government too!
And Impeach the PM for protecting the Parliament building...
Oh we had to WALK... boo hoo.
Wow. Get them with the facts. They can't stand facts.
Those figures are kind of misleading as they are the total votes cast in each constitutency but in some constituencies a person voted three times for 3 candidates and in others two etc so the figures are of votes cast and dont correlate to people as some people get more votes to cast than others. That is why most comparisons use the party klist vote as for this vote every person got one vote only if they cared to use it which about 30% didnt.
Working out Thai elections aint easy in terms of omov as only the party list is omov to any degree and that isn ttotal as it is regionalised into 8 areas.
Posted 2010-03-24 21:46:29
hammered, on 2010-03-24 15:50:18, said: rametindallas, on 2010-03-24 13:57:04, said: animatic, on 2010-03-24 13:37:58, said: Countdown towards the General Election
Wow. Get them with the facts. They can't stand facts.
Those figures are kind of misleading as they are the total votes cast in each constitutency but in some constituencies a person voted three times for 3 candidates and in others two etc so the figures are of votes cast and dont correlate to people as some people get more votes to cast than others. That is why most comparisons use the party klist vote as for this vote every person got one vote only if they cared to use it which about 30% didnt.
Working out Thai elections aint easy in terms of omov as only the party list is omov to any degree and that isn ttotal as it is regionalised into 8 areas.
it's mostly nonsense when people try to do something tricky with the figures of the election results. they just show of that they have understand nothing of the system and probably have no clue at all.
any comparison using only the "party list vote" or the so called proportional vote is equally misleading . not because it got split into 8 areas, but because it is still a 'second' vote, an additional vote that offered the voter a tactical voting. and only 80 MP of the 480 seats in the parliament got elected this way.
Posted 2010-03-25 09:49:15
mazeltov, on 2010-03-24 21:46:29, said: it's mostly nonsense when people try to do something tricky with the figures of the election results. they just show of that they have understand nothing of the system and probably have no clue at all.
any comparison using only the "party list vote" or the so called proportional vote is equally misleading . not because it got split into 8 areas, but because it is still a 'second' vote, an additional vote that offered the voter a tactical voting. and only 80 MP of the 480 seats in the parliament got elected this way.
Oh please. What percentage of voters do you think voted PTP across the board in the constituency election and then Democrats in the proportional vote?
It is standard to rely on the proportional vote as the leading indicator of party support.
Posted 2010-03-26 00:24:03
way2muchcoffee, on 2010-03-25 10:49:15, said: mazeltov, on 2010-03-24 21:46:29, said: it's mostly nonsense when people try to do something tricky with the figures of the election results. they just show of that they have understand nothing of the system and probably have no clue at all.
any comparison using only the "party list vote" or the so called proportional vote is equally misleading . not because it got split into 8 areas, but because it is still a 'second' vote, an additional vote that offered the voter a tactical voting. and only 80 MP of the 480 seats in the parliament got elected this way.
Oh please. What percentage of voters do you think voted PTP across the board in the constituency election and then Democrats in the proportional vote?
It is standard to rely on the proportional vote as the leading indicator of party support.
to answer your question - zero percent, because nobody at all voted for PTP in the 2007 election.
anyway who declared that to a standard, (to check/analyse/argue with only the proportional vote)?
you can't ignore the specifics of the voting system in Thailand (a system lot of people here on this board not understand.) and you can't ignore other circumstances and the special situation in that year 2007.
taking figures out of the context is misleading.
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