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[webfact]

Care needed in language school choices
By WANNAPA KHAOPA
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Students warned of unethical consultants, unqualified foreign schools.

Listening to an educational consultant does not always give Thai students a sure bet when they want to take an English-language course overseas.

The recent arrests of 52 Thai students in the United States shows how difficult a life can be for a student ending up with the wrong consultant.

These students were arrested earlier this month for violating the conditions of their visa.

Despite enrolling at a language school, they are accused of overstaying a visa, or not sitting in class long enough per week or illegally working during their course.

Late last week, Foreign Affairs Ministry Information Department deputy director-general Thani Thongphakdi confirmed that 46 of these students vowed to stay on in America to defend themselves in a US court.

Their decision seems to reflect these students are convinced they are innocent.

Their arrests took place after the Florida Language Institute was closed down for failing to ensure that its foreign students who have held F-1 visas attended classes full time or at least 18 hours a week.

Experts have now warned Thai students to watch out for unethical educational consultants and unqualified language schools. To avoid the trouble, the experts have strongly recommended students spend time researching information and carefully checking the background of the educational consultant/language institute.

Thai International Education Consultants Association (TIECA) President Pitsamorn Kusalanont reckoned that in the face of growing demand for educational consultancy services, the number of educational consultants had doubled in recent years but not all could offer quality.

"We must admit that there's no authority to directly oversee these consultancies," she said. She added that 71 consultancies were members of Tieca and agreed to abide by its regulations.

According to Pitsamorn, some educational consultants clearly know that many of their clients intend to work in the US and enrol to a language school only to support their applications for the visa.

"Still, these consultants refrain from giving the proper advice. That's why many Thai students risk facing legal action overseas," she said.

Pitsamorn said consultancies should recommend only qualified language schools for their clients and clearly explain to them about the visa conditions and legal measures involved. She said with many Thai students being arrested recently in the US, the visa application process would be a bigger challenge for new applicants from Thailand.

"But Tieca believes there is an opportunity in every crisis. Tieca members can now promote their strong points," Pitsamorn said, adding that all members offer quality services.

Office of the Consumer Protection Board (OCPB) secretary-general Niroth Charoenprakob recently revealed that his office had received one or two complaints against or from educational consultants each year on average.

"Sometimes, the consultants were found to have reneged on the contracts but sometimes the students were the ones who violated the contracts," he continued.

He said some offending educational consultants finally agreed to offer full or partial compensation to the affected students. "Not a single case has gone to court," Niroth added.

To play safe, he said students who wanted to study abroad should take joint degree programmes offered by certified Thai educational institutions that have special agreements with foreign educational institutions.

Thani urged students and their parents to consult educational promoting organisations of the countries they want to go to directly, like the British Council or choose famous and trustworthy consultancies.

For people who want to study in the US, Thani urged them to check educational institutions listed among guaranteed organisations on the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)'s website at www.ice.gov.

"The crucial thing that Thai students must do to avoid legal action in foreign countries is to strictly proceed in line with their visa conditions," Thani urged.

He said six Thai students arrested early this month have now agreed to be deported. The deportation process will last between three to six weeks.


-- The Nation 2010-03-22

[BkkMD]

odd.. when i was a student in chicago i was enrolled in 15 hours of classes a week or less the entire time..... and this was a state school..

[eggomaniac]

Should I be the first to say it? Why not? With farangs in Thailand, they are dodging and circumventing visa rules; while Thais overseas are victims of the language schools.
Methinks all sides, in both country, know what the game is!?

[givenall]

eggomaniac, on 2010-03-22 09:31:03, said:

Should I be the first to say it? Why not? With farangs in Thailand, they are dodging and circumventing visa rules; while Thais overseas are victims of the language schools.
Methinks all sides, in both country, know what the game is!?

I second

I know it is very common for the Thai student to work illegally for earning money or something that is not allowed with Student Visa. If we farang have to follow the stringent immigration rules, then I would want the Thai citizen, student or others to follow the law over there too

[gotlost]

TIT for TAT.

[OzMick]

There is some pretty dodgy schools here as well!! a few weeks back there was a huge to-do over a nurses school - big fees and when they finished the course local hospitals told them they didn't recognize their qualifications. Was receiving lots of air time on thai TV/

[Scott]

The amount of time you must spend in school to be a full-time student will vary.  Generally it has to do with the number of credit-hours for a class.  

If I recall correctly, students are allowed to work on a part-time basis while attending school.  

I think the difference is that in the US they do keep track of foreign students and they are expected to follow the laws.  Oh, and paying your tuition does not guarantee you will pass and if your GPA is not at a certain level then your visa is canceled.  

I am surprised the school was closed and would like more information on their part in this.

[astral]

gotlost, on 2010-03-22 11:55:43, said:

TIT for TAT.

T.A.T.  ????????????

[miksguevara]

BkkMD, on 2010-03-22 07:46:45, said:

odd.. when i was a student in chicago i was enrolled in 15 hours of classes a week or less the entire time..... and this was a state school..

well mate maybe the rules changed

[gemini81]

I know Australia law dictates foregin students must attend 80% of the classes, and get a grade B or above, or the visa is cancelled. I do recall the US law is something similar particulary in private institutions.
Who really knows all of the actual details...but if you overstay your visa there's penalties. I had to pay for forgetting my 90 day check in here, and you know they don't want people floating around unaccounted for.

[rucus7]

A Florida flight school was also responsible for training 9/11 terrorists. They only wanted to learn to fly the planes not land them. Florida is notorious for many insurance and educational scams.

[witold]

In the US, regulations and enforcement are stringent in the sense that you can't circumvent rules the same way you can in Thailand.  Govt officials in US will not look the other way.  For ED Visas, rules and enforcement became more stringent after discovery that 9/11 terrorists were taught to fly planes in a Florida school.  

Instead of trying to do things 1/2 way by sort being in the US legally on ED Visa, it's probably preferable to just be totally illegal and under the radar.  US has a ton of illegal immigrants living fairly normal lives.

[oceano]

"Their decision seems to reflect these students are convinced they are innocent."

The 99% of people in jail are convinced they are innocent.

Overstay? they cannot read a date? really? 1,2,3,4...ops also in THailand they use the same character.

They work....are student but they dont stay in school...really the bad farang explain to them the the real school is the work!

Come on, if we do the same is a bad day for us....but now they are in a rich contry and they are the poor thai people that" don't understand the rules!!".

Why they cannot be strong and smart like they do whit us here?

Here they are LION...go in court and say" we are guilty and we dont care your law!"....we send all court in hosital whit the head broken!!!!!!!

Edited by oceano, 2010-03-23 04:20:03.

[Carmine6]

Scott, on 2010-03-21 23:46:47, said:

The amount of time you must spend in school to be a full-time student will vary.  Generally it has to do with the number of credit-hours for a class.  

If I recall correctly, students are allowed to work on a part-time basis while attending school.  

I think the difference is that in the US they do keep track of foreign students and they are expected to follow the laws.  Oh, and paying your tuition does not guarantee you will pass and if your GPA is not at a certain level then your visa is canceled.  

I am surprised the school was closed and would like more information on their part in this.

Among other violations, the school in question was reportedly falsifying attendance records, even to the extent of filling in attendance records ahead of time.

I posted in the other thread that at the same time the Thai students were caught up in the mess, there was a California man who was arrested for taking exams for Arab students.  They showed a whole pile of fake ids he had.  He would take entrance exams or class exams so the students could maintain their visa.  A couple of those students were reportedly of interest.

With both stories happening within a week of each other, it seems likely there was some increased scrutiny after the recent terrorist incidents in the US.  The Thai students just happened to be enrolled at a school that wasn't even faking it well.

[Thai at Heart]

Carmine6, on 2010-03-22 23:59:18, said:

Scott, on 2010-03-21 23:46:47, said:

The amount of time you must spend in school to be a full-time student will vary.  Generally it has to do with the number of credit-hours for a class.  

If I recall correctly, students are allowed to work on a part-time basis while attending school.  

I think the difference is that in the US they do keep track of foreign students and they are expected to follow the laws.  Oh, and paying your tuition does not guarantee you will pass and if your GPA is not at a certain level then your visa is canceled.  

I am surprised the school was closed and would like more information on their part in this.

Among other violations, the school in question was reportedly falsifying attendance records, even to the extent of filling in attendance records ahead of time.

I posted in the other thread that at the same time the Thai students were caught up in the mess, there was a California man who was arrested for taking exams for Arab students.  They showed a whole pile of fake ids he had.  He would take entrance exams or class exams so the students could maintain their visa.  A couple of those students were reportedly of interest.

With both stories happening within a week of each other, it seems likely there was some increased scrutiny after the recent terrorist incidents in the US.  The Thai students just happened to be enrolled at a school that wasn't even faking it well.

The education visa route has been proven in recent years to be full of fraudulent applications.  The UK had a story which constituted the biggest visa fraud ever in the UK.

It is a little naive to believe that the UK and the US don't talk about these things particularly in the world we live in today.  Overstaying a visa anywhere in the world is a truly dumb thing to do.

http://www.telegraph...visa-fraud.html

[Scott]

If I recall correctly, some of the 9/11 group were in the US on Student Visas.  Granted this was for flight school, but I think that has made foreign students more open to scrutiny.

[makavelithedon]

It wouldn't just be that Thai students abroad think they can carry on in lawless fashion like they do in Thailand by any chance?

AS per usual it's a foreigner's fault.

[Credo]

The wording of the article seems a little biased, but the school would not have been closed unless it was guilty of something.  Perhaps they were complicit in not reporting students in violation of their visas.  I believe schools must assure that foreign students are attending classes etc.

[zaza]

astral, on 2010-03-22 14:02:43, said:

gotlost, on 2010-03-22 11:55:43, said:

TIT for TAT.

T.A.T.  ????????????

Thailand Authority of Tourism.

Edited by zaza, 2010-03-23 12:15:11.

[Carmine6]

Credo, on 2010-03-22 22:07:30, said:

The wording of the article seems a little biased, but the school would not have been closed unless it was guilty of something.  Perhaps they were complicit in not reporting students in violation of their visas.  I believe schools must assure that foreign students are attending classes etc.

It basically sounds like a fake school where you paid the fee and they signed off on paperwork filed with the Feds.

http://www.miamihera...-officials.html
http://www.nytimes.c...us/05fraud.html
http://www.google.co...MsKZ1gD9E833P00

Quote

"Menocal and Macia were charged with conspiring to commit an offense against the U.S., and Menocal faces other charges including falsifying immigration documents, according to a grand jury indictment."
...

"Of the approximately 200 students enrolled at Florida Language Institute in each of the past three years, only 5 percent regularly attended class, he said. The school offered classes to help international students improve their English skills.

Menocal and Macia failed to report to authorities, as required by the post-9/11 rules, that the vast majority of the Miami school's students were not coming to class, according to the indictment.

"It's a systemic failure to report to class, not a vacation day here and there," Mangione said.

Oh, youtube video of the news report:

Edited by Carmine6, 2010-03-23 13:12:02.

[hardy1943]

Carmine6, on 2010-03-23 13:04:07, said:

Credo, on 2010-03-22 22:07:30, said:

The wording of the article seems a little biased, but the school would not have been closed unless it was guilty of something.  Perhaps they were complicit in not reporting students in violation of their visas.  I believe schools must assure that foreign students are attending classes etc.

It basically sounds like a fake school where you paid the fee and they signed off on paperwork filed with the Feds.

http://www.miamihera...-officials.html
http://www.nytimes.c...us/05fraud.html
http://www.google.co...MsKZ1gD9E833P00

Quote

"Menocal and Macia were charged with conspiring to commit an offense against the U.S., and Menocal faces other charges including falsifying immigration documents, according to a grand jury indictment."
...

"Of the approximately 200 students enrolled at Florida Language Institute in each of the past three years, only 5 percent regularly attended class, he said. The school offered classes to help international students improve their English skills.

Menocal and Macia failed to report to authorities, as required by the post-9/11 rules, that the vast majority of the Miami school's students were not coming to class, according to the indictment.

"It's a systemic failure to report to class, not a vacation day here and there," Mangione said.

Oh, youtube video of the news report:

I came from Germany many years ago and attented US schools , the bend over backward to help me but I never missed a class. We all know the Thai Culture expecially the government workers, maybe tomorrow, or next week or never.