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[infernalman7]

Comicus, on 2011-08-27 00:19:30, said:

infernalman7, on 2011-08-15 22:10:32, said:

They are doing really well now though. They have just reached 3,000 Express passengers per day.

From this 3,000 pax per day, how many are Thais and how many are tourists? Anyone knows?

I can't tell for sure. Many passengers are Asian. But why does this matter anyway?

[Comicus]

infernalman7, on 2011-08-28 19:12:01, said:

Comicus, on 2011-08-27 00:19:30, said:

infernalman7, on 2011-08-15 22:10:32, said:

They are doing really well now though. They have just reached 3,000 Express passengers per day.

From this 3,000 pax per day, how many are Thais and how many are tourists? Anyone knows?

I can't tell for sure. Many passengers are Asian. But why does this matter anyway?

Thais may use it to travel locally, not from/to an airport. Therefore, this 3,000 pax per day is just another fault claim

[Lakegeneve]

Comicus, on 2011-08-28 22:56:01, said:

infernalman7, on 2011-08-28 19:12:01, said:

Comicus, on 2011-08-27 00:19:30, said:

infernalman7, on 2011-08-15 22:10:32, said:

They are doing really well now though. They have just reached 3,000 Express passengers per day.

From this 3,000 pax per day, how many are Thais and how many are tourists? Anyone knows?

I can't tell for sure. Many passengers are Asian. But why does this matter anyway?

Thais may use it to travel locally, not from/to an airport. Therefore, this 3,000 pax per day is just another fault claim

You seem to misunderstand. The referred to figure of 3000 (note I am note sure that is yet 3K a day as it was 2.3k p/d in June but I'll take the previous posters word) pax a day is only for the Express Service. Thus, all pax ARE travelling to/from the airport. You claim is actually at fault.

The Cityline , which you seems to be thinking of, was averaging 37-38,000 a day in June.

SRT has stated that the total pax numbers for July were 1.05m up from the June figure of 900K. No break down of Cityline and Express was given. http://www.thaipost....ws/260811/43965


Overall revenue was also up by 25% to 37m baht a day still less than the estimated 70-77m baht a day in running costs and debt servicing.

[Lakegeneve]

As an added update, the SRT has just rebid the pedestrian link to be built from Makkasan CAT to Petchaburi MRT station for 87m. The previous contractor and design was withdrawn due to some problems with the design. Contract to be signed by Dec with the link completed by June 2012.

Also, the extra escalators for Phayathai, Ratchaprarop and Ram stations should be installed sometime by Dec to March 2012.

Before someone posts making the valid point about the escalator shortage and link issue, I will again remind all that when the BTS opened in Dec 99 only about half the escalators that currently exist were installed. The others were gradually installed in the following few years. Also, the links between the MRT and BTS at Silom and Asoke did not repectively open until 1 and 2 years after the MRT opened.


If the SRT manages to install the extra escalators and the link to the MRT they will be following a similar timeframe to what has previously taken place. Not defending that, just reminding people.

[infernalman7]

Lakegeneve, since the Friday before Mothers Day, the number of Express pax has been well over 2,800 with some days reaching over 3,000.

From what I understand from my source within the ARL team, they say the pedestrian link to be built from MCAT to the MRT station could not be built because BMA didn't allow it to be built in the first place due to future landscape changes to be implemented by the BMA. But it seems the SRT is going ahead with or without the support from the BMA and so is the Ministry of Transport. The original underground pedestrian link that was in the first plan could not be built because of the blockade underground. (Massive drainage system inbetween the two stations)

It should be noted also that most BTS stations do not have downward escalators. People don't seem to find that troubling because most users don't carry heavy luggages with them. The Airport Link system was designed with the same assumption, thinking that most passengers with heavy luggages would use the Express service to MCAT only. I think people just complain about Airport Link just to feel like they know things better.

Lakegeneve, you seem to be one of a very few people here who know what you're talking about

Edited by infernalman7, 2011-08-30 23:56:59.

[barryFunk]

Thanks both infernalman7 and Lakegeneve for your useful and interesting posts.  Far too often people on these forums are negative for the sake of being negative rather than using them to discuss reality and be constructive in any criticism.

A couple of thoughts:
- Installing the connection from the MCAT to the MRT should only cost about as much as one full day of operating costs
- How much of a boost do you think the connection will give to the ARL's numbers and what difference would it have made if it had been completed by the time of the launch of the check in services at Makkasan?

With a cost recovery of only about 50%, do they ever have a hope of breaking evening on operating/debt servicing costs?  I would say it's unlikely since the CityLine trains are already packed and the logical way to increase revenue would be through the addition of new trains which would increase operating costs.  Increasing the fares substantially would be unlikely to increase revenues due to the sensitivity to price of Bangkok commuters.  The other option would be to convert Express Line trains to CityLine and double the service frequency but this would be to get rid of a growing revenue stream.

Redesigning the track configuration to allow the Express line trains to stop at both Makkasan and Phaya Thai would go a long way to making that service more attractive though I can't see the check in services continuing for much longer. This would help increase revenue. While my wife and I found them very convenient when we flew to Australia a few months ago, the split of the Express Line destinations can't be helping any.  Does anyone know the impact it has had on daily check ins?  (Not like they have far to drop from the 20 or so a day a few months ago!).

A very simple additional change would be to install a departures screen at the entrance of the train terminal at Suvarnibhumi that shows the trains departing over the next hour.  Last time I took the ARL, I had to ask three people to find out when/to where the next train would depart.

Though is this really a problem?  I'm sure the cost recovery on most SRT  routes must be low so perhaps a 50% recovery rate isn't that bad?

[p_brownstone]

I would imagine that a large number of passengers on both the Express and City Lines would be people working at the Airport, not that that would make a difference in Revenue - unless these people or their Employers have a Discount deal - or even a Free Pass, which I do not think would be unusual.

Patrick

[infernalman7]

p_brownstone, on 2011-09-05 11:04:53, said:

I would imagine that a large number of passengers on both the Express and City Lines would be people working at the Airport, not that that would make a difference in Revenue - unless these people or their Employers have a Discount deal - or even a Free Pass, which I do not think would be unusual.

Patrick

According to the survey, yes, a lot of passengers on the Cityline trains are actually people who commute on a regular basis. This is why they are having a hard time getting higher bids for the advertisement concession.

There are no free-pass for anyone so far but ARL staff. They are going to have a deal with AirAsia and other airlines soon though based from what I have heard from the last AOC (Airport Operations Committee) meeting.

Again, the system isn't built with "breakeven" in mind. It's a service for those who have to use the airport. It's a feature that any quality city/airport must have. One shouldn't expect the system to run itself without any kind of subsidy. In some other cities (KL for example) their version of Airport Express is paid partly from the airport tax. In Thailand, I think this may happen in the near future, and the AOT wouldn't like that at all.

[infernalman7]

barryFunk, on 2011-09-01 14:05:55, said:

Thanks both infernalman7 and Lakegeneve for your useful and interesting posts.  Far too often people on these forums are negative for the sake of being negative rather than using them to discuss reality and be constructive in any criticism.

A couple of thoughts:
- Installing the connection from the MCAT to the MRT should only cost about as much as one full day of operating costs
- How much of a boost do you think the connection will give to the ARL's numbers and what difference would it have made if it had been completed by the time of the launch of the check in services at Makkasan?

With a cost recovery of only about 50%, do they ever have a hope of breaking evening on operating/debt servicing costs?  I would say it's unlikely since the CityLine trains are already packed and the logical way to increase revenue would be through the addition of new trains which would increase operating costs.  Increasing the fares substantially would be unlikely to increase revenues due to the sensitivity to price of Bangkok commuters.  The other option would be to convert Express Line trains to CityLine and double the service frequency but this would be to get rid of a growing revenue stream.

Redesigning the track configuration to allow the Express line trains to stop at both Makkasan and Phaya Thai would go a long way to making that service more attractive though I can't see the check in services continuing for much longer. This would help increase revenue. While my wife and I found them very convenient when we flew to Australia a few months ago, the split of the Express Line destinations can't be helping any.  Does anyone know the impact it has had on daily check ins?  (Not like they have far to drop from the 20 or so a day a few months ago!).

A very simple additional change would be to install a departures screen at the entrance of the train terminal at Suvarnibhumi that shows the trains departing over the next hour.  Last time I took the ARL, I had to ask three people to find out when/to where the next train would depart.

Though is this really a problem?  I'm sure the cost recovery on most SRT  routes must be low so perhaps a 50% recovery rate isn't that bad?

From my understanding, yes they are adding more Cityline trains. This time though the frequency will be maxed out with minimal headway possible (wait time is still going to be 10-12 minutes).

I believe that in the near future they'll have to make changes to the signalling system and the track to allow all express stops in one go but that may happen after the extension to Don Muang is being built. It might be something like Don Muang <-> Bang Sue <-> Phaya Thai <-> Makkasan <-> Suvarnabhumi <-> Pattaya.

Check-ins are still a pain in the butt. It's self-defeating really to only have Thai Airways available there. But this is going to change very soon as they are giving all airlines free access to counters, office spaces and parking. Changes will happen this year!

See my previous comment about profit-making. It's not going to happen.

[ES1]

cardholder, on 2011-05-10 02:29:46, said:

Just browsing this thread, and I am sure it will have been covered before, but.......


I enjoy a 2 or 3 break in Bangkok but I am no fan of driving in the city.

Coming down from Buriram it is a good run to the airport. Has anybody considered/tried parking at the airport and taking link to, say, Makkasan for a couple of nights around Sukhumvit.

Yup,  I know several guys in Pattaya who do that all the time.  Driving into the airport from Pattaya then relaxing on the express train into Bkk is much less stressful than driving into Bkk.  Often quicker too depending on where you are going.

[ES1]

Lakegeneve, on 2011-06-13 11:44:59, said:

lomatopo, on 2011-06-13 07:24:07, said:

At Suvarnabhumi how does one know if the next departing Express Line train is going to MAS (Makkasan) or PTH (Phaya Thai)? Do the overhead screens have the destination? Are there announcements? LED signage (in English?) on the cars?

According to the schedules, if you miss an Express Line train SVB-MAS then you have a 40 minute wait. So better to take the City Line, and get off at MAS if that was your intended destination.

It sounds like it might be easier to get a taxi at Phaya Thai vs. Makkasan?

The display screen at the entrance to the Express and on the platforms state the destination. The missing screen is on up on arrivals levels in the terminal and at the entrance of the station which should list all trains departing in the coming hour (Express and Cityline) so pax know how much time they have to purchase a ticket and get to the platform.

I think it is easy to get a taxi at Makkasan which is my usual station but I always do the 2 min walk to Ratchada rd rather than take one waiting at arrival level (which is signposted contrary to an above post). Even if I taxi to Makkasan (sometimes I take the MRT) I will be dropped off at Ratchada and walk straight the the lifts rather than enter the CAT road and have the taxi spend a few mins using the entry road which goes around the whole station. Not a good design on that front.

When I was at Makkasan a few months ago if you go out the front entrance there was a guy with a radio calling in Taxis for waiting people.  Is that guy gone now?

[falkan]

Went with the Airport Rail Link Express today, 90 tbh! cheap!

[theoldgit]

falkan, on 2011-09-27 00:49:05, said:

Went with the Airport Rail Link Express today, 90 tbh! cheap!

I went on the City Line on Friday whizzing past all the cars gridlocked on Rama IX, cost us 30 Baht each as we don't go all the way.

[Lakegeneve]

SRT figures on average pax numbers reported in Thairath a few weeks ago;


Express-
June: 1,586 passengers a day
July: 1,932 passengers a day
August: 2,370 passengers a day

August Airport City Line daily is between 40-42K with a max of  42,475 passengers on 11 August 2011.

[Pond Life]

Could some one tell me if the skytrain to Suvarnabhumi airport is running during the floods ?

Also, Im traveling from the airport to Hualumpong Train station, how is the flood situation in the station area.

Many thanks.

[rogerdee123]

theoldgit, on 2011-09-27 10:08:36, said:

falkan, on 2011-09-27 00:49:05, said:

Went with the Airport Rail Link Express today, 90 tbh! cheap!

I went on the City Line on Friday whizzing past all the cars gridlocked on Rama IX, cost us 30 Baht each as we don't go all the way.

I remember the first time I went all the way. I think I was 17.  Late bloomer.

[Lakegeneve]

Pond Life, on 2011-10-19 12:57:13, said:

Could some one tell me if the skytrain to Suvarnabhumi airport is running during the floods ?

Also, Im traveling from the airport to Hualumpong Train station, how is the flood situation in the station area.

Many thanks.

Yes the SRT ARL is running as normal to and from the airport. (Refer earlier for website)
This would only change in the unlikely event that the depot floods, power is lost or perhaps the airport station is flooded in which case you probably would not land as it would most likely mean the runways have flooded too.

Hualumpong is also good but no northern trains depending on where you want to go you should check at the Airport station with the SRT staff as this could change at any time (ie. all train services could be suspended if tracks are flooded). Also, check the SRT site for updates; http://www.railway.c....asp?idnews=956

Depending on where you intending to go a bus or van may be a better option.

[Pond Life]

Thanks LG,

We are heading South, & the line seems ok so far.
Like you say, the situation is Fluid !

[Lakegeneve]

Seems like a PT puff piece but I can't see it happening that soon. Off-peak fares on the Cityline would be a good idea to reduce overcrowded services but more particularly for the MRT and BTS.

At least the timetables for the Cityline have been improved to increase frequency to 12 mins during the peak periods.

20-baht subway fare to be tested, 02/02/2012
The Transport Ministry will trial a 20-baht flat fare for subway and Airport Link rail services during the non-rush hours to draw more commuters. Transport Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan has agreed with the pilot plan which coalition leader PT party promised at last years election. No date was given for when the pilot would begin.

Figures show the number of passengers during the non-rush hours is small compared with the morning and evening. The ministry will review whether the new rate is feasible after a one month trial. "we will carry out the 20-baht policy as promised, but it's better to test it first", Mr Jarupong said. If the trial succeeds in boosting passengers numbers, it plans to introduce the fare permanently once the construction of all 10 subway lines in Bangkok is completed from 2015-2019.

Passengers on the Hua Lamphong-Bang Sue line now pay 15 baht to 40 baht. The airport line service which connects Phaya Thai and Suvarnabhumi airport, charges 15 baht to 45 baht.

[Lakegeneve]

SRT says that now over 50K pax a day which is a 20% increase from 6 months ago. Figures given on Feb 10 are:
Cityline 46 787 Express 3 782

The SRT is also going to order 2 more trains this year for delivery by 2014. However, ideally 5 more sets are needed to reduce Cityline headway times down to 7-10 mins.
Expect an explosion in pax numbers when that happens.

[Lakegeneve]

I haven't posted on TV in a while but just to advise that news from last month was that the SRT had allocated 17m baht to finally reconfigure the Express rail line (which currently does not extend east beyond Makkasan) and the City Line to link the two lines on the east side of Makkasan.

This will allow Express trains to stop at both Phayathai and Makkasan as one service rather than the current stupid arrangement of two separate Express services to two destinations.

[dantilley]

Lakegeneve, on 2012-04-27 16:30:50, said:

the SRT had allocated 17m baht to finally reconfigure the Express rail line

Any idea on the timeline for this reconfiguration?

[Lakegeneve]

dantilley, on 2012-05-04 17:03:15, said:

Lakegeneve, on 2012-04-27 16:30:50, said:

the SRT had allocated 17m baht to finally reconfigure the Express rail line

Any idea on the timeline for this reconfiguration?

Apparently, 4 months from whenever work will start. However, there are a number of projects and improvements to the ARL that are running behind schedule in the usual delayed Bangkok public transport & SRT construction timelines.

These are the extra escalators at 6 stations and the much needed ARL to MRT pedestrian link at the CAT (originally die to be completed by June 2012)

[Lakegeneve]

Of greater immediate concern is that the spare parts issue has arisen again - this time in respect of disk brakes and wheel bearings - with the SRT-ET seemingly not keeping enough inventory and not liaising with Siemens in due time ie. not ordering months ago. This means that 3 trains are currently out of service (2 Cityline & 1 Express) out of the total rolling stock of 9 (5 Cityline and 4 Express), ie. 1/3 of the rolling stock. The Siemens 2 year warranty of the current 9 sets recently expired and the SRT is seeking to renew the warranty by another 2 years.

As previously mentioned, the SRT has been given funds to purchase two more sets of rolling stock by 2014 to help with maintenance of rolling stock but ideally it needs 7 more sets in total to implement a more frequent headway. SRT is going request funds for the extra 5 sets but it needs to sort of a number of issues first.

There has been much discussion in the thai language press in recent days regarding the overall culture of SRT management, operational issues and staffing problems of the ARL.
See, http://www.prachacha...atid=&subcatid= & http://www.manager.c...D=9550000056563

Pax numbers are still around 3500-3800 a day for the Express and 46K-48K a day for the Cityline. (March figures)

[TheCure]

Lakegeneve, on 2012-05-10 01:27:07, said:

Of greater immediate concern is that the spare parts issue has arisen again - this time in respect of disk brakes and wheel bearings - with the SRT-ET seemingly not keeping enough inventory and not liaising with Siemens in due time ie. not ordering months ago. This means that 3 trains are currently out of service (2 Cityline & 1 Express) out of the total rolling stock of 9 (5 Cityline and 4 Express), ie. 1/3 of the rolling stock. The Siemens 2 year warranty of the current 9 sets recently expired and the SRT is seeking to renew the warranty by another 2 years.

As previously mentioned, the SRT has been given funds to purchase two more sets of rolling stock by 2014 to help with maintenance of rolling stock but ideally it needs 7 more sets in total to implement a more frequent headway. SRT is going request funds for the extra 5 sets but it needs to sort of a number of issues first.

There has been much discussion in the thai language press in recent days regarding the overall culture of SRT management, operational issues and staffing problems of the ARL.
See, http://www.prachacha...atid=&subcatid= & http://www.manager.c...D=9550000056563

Pax numbers are still around 3500-3800 a day for the Express and 46K-48K a day for the Cityline. (March figures)

It is only a matter of time before a major accident happens on the ARL.
The track was built by some shoddy Chinese contractor which has long left Thailand, and SRT has no  money   to do the necessary maintenance on the track  and the rolling stock.
I have never used it, because it is not convenient for me, and most probably never will.