Why give balance to a group with such a track record of terrorist acts? This isn't a garden party.
Why? Just to be fair!
Till now there is no proof who did this, only many speculations. Many good, bad, interesting arguments for and against. Only party not accused yet are the aliens (the real ones that is). As I said, IMHO it's red/UDD sympathisers, but that still allows me to try to keep an open-mind!
I don't see the point in giving equal weight to ridiculous theories. The theory that the government did it is ridiculous.
For some the theory that those peace-loving reds did it, is equally ridiculous. I don't feel up to weighting theories, even if I have my own opinion. Call it 'insufficient data'
I suspected that this type of attack might be the next stage in the Red proceedings in Bangkok, and sadly was proved right.
It a natural progression:
The red movement managed to capture the sentiments of a large number of people at the outset, even many Bkk residents. Then gradually people realized that the movements leaders were fractured into a moderate group and a group of violent extremists.
In May, the extremists won out and the ensuing destruction destroyed the red movement as a populist group although many people remain sympathetic to their core cause.
The reds will never again be able to mobilize a large crown of protesters as they are thoroughtly discredited as a movement, so the only way they can carry on their cause is by random acts of terrorism. It takes 10,000 people to form a protest group but only two or three to plant a bomb.
There are parallels with other movements across th world, particularly in Northern Ireland, with the "real IRA" who maintain a tiny but potentially devastating prescence following the renouncement of violence by the vast majority.
Deadly Bangkok bomb designed for political gain: police
BANGKOK (AFP) -- A bomb in central Bangkok that killed one person and wounded 10 on Sunday was designed to create disorder for political gain, police said Monday.
The blast came two months after deadly opposition protests rocked the city and hours after polls closed in a crucial Bangkok by-election, with initial results suggesting a leader of the "Red Shirt" anti-government movement had lost to a member of the elite-backed ruling party.
The bomb exploded at a bus stop in the same commercial district occupied by the Red Shirts during their two-month-long mass rally, which ended with an army crackdown in May.
Police General Panupong Singhara Na Ayutthaya said they were investigating CCTV images of a man who may be a suspect, adding that the culprits likely aimed "to create disorder for political gain".
The blast followed a parliamentary race in a Bangkok suburb -- seen as a litmus test of public opinion following the civil unrest -- which a Red Shirt leader now detained on terrorism charges appeared to have lost.
Initial Election Commission results showed Kokaew Pikulthong, who stood for the opposition Puea Thai (For Thais) party but was not allowed out of jail to campaign, was beaten by ruling Democrat party candidate Panich Vikitsreth.
A Puea Thai spokesman accused government supporters of setting off the bomb, which shattered an uneasy calm in the capital since the army crushed the Red Shirts' mass protests.
"I believe a bomb came from a group who support the government and want the emergency rule to be maintained," said spokesman Pormpong Nopparit.
"This group wants political gain from maintaining emergency rule, while many people in this society want the state of emergency to be revoked," he added.
The government has come under pressure from the United States and rights groups to end a state of emergency still in place across one-fifth of the country.
Authorities have used the powers -- introduced in Bangkok on April 7 -- to arrest hundreds of Red Shirt suspects and silence anti-government media.
The protests by the Reds, many of whom back fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, attracted up to 100,000 people demanding immediate elections.
Ninety people died and about 1,900 were injured in a series of street clashes between armed troops and demonstrators.
andyww "The reds will never again be able to mobilize a large crown of protesters as they are thoroughtly discredited as a movement, so the only way they can carry on their cause is by random acts of terrorism"
Not in my eyes and the eyes of the world but hey
I wonder if any cctv evidence wil emerge. The BKK governor wants to install 100000 camera I believe. There's a man with some credit who alone sought to parlay with the UDD whilst his governemt refused face to face meetings after the TV meetings.
It could be redshirts behind this bombing and we saw the BJT perps caught. Was it Seh Dang's driver again? Let's pin it on him. I agree with other posters here the police authorities aren't too interested in the public only in what they can get out of them. The bombings during the redshirt protests were carried out by the army and/or PAD. No cameras. No witnesses. No injuries except to security guard outside Poseidon "spa". That bombing may have been by redshirts. It was the only way to create a state of emergency and so to ban a legal demonstration after the illegitmate government realised that the protesters were not going away. The SOE has to continue as no charges have yet been brought. Over 400 people held including a 70 year old woman. Downhill since the coup.
There was another gathering the following Sunday where they vandalised a skytrain pylon and a feow barricades in memory of the dead. I got this info from their twitter feed @UDDThailand, currently posting under the alias Ratchaprasong News.
They are clearly fond of Ratchaprasong, but not this Sunday. Guess we now have a way of knowing if it's safe to go shopping anyhow.
andyww "The reds will never again be able to mobilize a large crown of protesters as they are thoroughtly discredited as a movement, so the only way they can carry on their cause is by random acts of terrorism"
Not in my eyes and the eyes of the world but hey
I wonder if any cctv evidence wil emerge. The BKK governor wants to install 100000 camera I believe. There's a man with some credit who alone sought to parlay with the UDD whilst his governemt refused face to face meetings after the TV meetings.
It could be redshirts behind this bombing and we saw the BJT perps caught. Was it Seh Dang's driver again? Let's pin it on him. I agree with other posters here the police authorities aren't too interested in the public only in what they can get out of them. The bombings during the redshirt protests were carried out by the army and/or PAD. No cameras. No witnesses. No injuries except to security guard outside Poseidon "spa". That bombing may have been by redshirts. It was the only way to create a state of emergency and so to ban a legal demonstration after the illegitmate government realised that the protesters were not going away. The SOE has to continue as no charges have yet been brought. Over 400 people held including a 70 year old woman. Downhill since the coup.
Please do not post speculation as fact, thanks. It is inflammatory and disruptive and further such posts can result in more than a simple public request.
This is just my opinion and it might offend people but I believe it to be true
The government has been far to nice to the red shirts. They have been more concerned about looking good than they have in punishing the criminals. The red shirts should have been crushed. As is they were merely coddled told it was not there fault and given free rides home.
Time to think of Thailand and not what is nice for the red shirts. Give them the same consideration they gave Bangkok. If the situation was reversed they would not handle you in such a nice way.
Most governments work off a policy of whats good for the state, this may or may not include the people ,the country should come first..
andyww "The reds will never again be able to mobilize a large crown of protesters as they are thoroughtly discredited as a movement, so the only way they can carry on their cause is by random acts of terrorism"
Not in my eyes and the eyes of the world but hey
I wonder if any cctv evidence wil emerge. The BKK governor wants to install 100000 camera I believe. There's a man with some credit who alone sought to parlay with the UDD whilst his governemt refused face to face meetings after the TV meetings.
It could be redshirts behind this bombing and we saw the BJT perps caught. Was it Seh Dang's driver again? Let's pin it on him. I agree with other posters here the police authorities aren't too interested in the public only in what they can get out of them. The bombings during the redshirt protests were carried out by the army and/or PAD. No cameras. No witnesses. No injuries except to security guard outside Poseidon "spa". That bombing may have been by redshirts. It was the only way to create a state of emergency and so to ban a legal demonstration after the illegitmate government realised that the protesters were not going away. The SOE has to continue as no charges have yet been brought. Over 400 people held including a 70 year old woman. Downhill since the coup.
Interesting rant, not being bothered by evidence seen in the last few months. This I'd call the imagination of a true blooded red-shirt supporter, or should I say anti-current-government ? Anyway these few words I type are already more response than that rant deserves.
anti-current government?
and the military? Mr 30%s. They don't care about the people. Nobody elected them. Nobody elected this government. BJT changed sides. So a vote for them didn't count really for much.
Block, ban all indipendant media., web sites. Arrest 16 year olds for holding a placard saying he saw dead people in Rachaprasong! A rant indeed. Oh yes. Things may be good in Pattaya but not here in Bangkok. Tourism is on the slide. Our business is suffering but those in power they couldn't care less. This is what you get from overthrowing an elected government. Sorry 2 elected governments and 3 prime ministers. The clock had to reset. Look at the history. Anytime change, modernisation begins here it has to be supressed. Everyone can see who really runs Thailand and they're so greedy. Are they buddhists? Downhill since the coup.
I suspected that this type of attack might be the next stage in the Red proceedings in Bangkok, and sadly was proved right.
It a natural progression:
The red movement managed to capture the sentiments of a large number of people at the outset, even many Bkk residents. Then gradually people realized that the movements leaders were fractured into a moderate group and a group of violent extremists.
In May, the extremists won out and the ensuing destruction destroyed the red movement as a populist group although many people remain sympathetic to their core cause.
The reds will never again be able to mobilize a large crown of protesters as they are thoroughtly discredited as a movement, so the only way they can carry on their cause is by random acts of terrorism. It takes 10,000 people to form a protest group but only two or three to plant a bomb.
There are parallels with other movements across th world, particularly in Northern Ireland, with the "real IRA" who maintain a tiny but potentially devastating prescence following the renouncement of violence by the vast majority.
Also they are highly mobile now. It could be your neighbor. They don't have to go to a rally or Bangkok just get on the phone and call one of there like minded buddies and KABOOM
anti-current government?
and the military? Mr 30%s. They don't care about the people. Nobody elected them. Nobody elected this government. BJT changed sides. So a vote for them didn't count really for much.
Block, ban all indipendant media., web sites. Arrest 16 year olds for holding a placard saying he saw dead people in Rachaprasong! A rant indeed. Oh yes. Things may be good in Pattaya but not here in Bangkok. Tourism is on the slide. Our business is suffering but those in power they couldn't care less. This is what you get from overthrowing an elected government. Sorry 2 elected governments and 3 prime ministers. The clock had to reset. Look at the history. Anytime change, modernisation begins here it has to be supressed. Everyone can see who really runs Thailand and they're so greedy. Are they buddhists? Downhill since the coup.
Here we go again. The MPs were elected, MPs form a government. If its MPs of one party its mostly a majority government, if it's MP's of various parties it's a coalition (like now in the UK).
The army in it's coup in 2006 was greeted with flowers. Probably because K. Thaksin was starting to slide on a slippery slope down to 'I say, so you do'. Newspapers were pressured, people asking awkward questions rebuked, tax-money handed-out to supporters, nepotism, cronyism, etc. Elections after the coup still dubious with TRT proxies. PAD come up, similar to UDD, but less violent. PM's road-map may not be perfect, but as a framework which can be filled-in by all in open-minded co-operation it is sufficient. Being only negative like the PTP doesn't help.
Business is recovering, but maybe not in your sector? Tourism is down, will stay down for awhile. Bomb attacks don't help, neither rainy season or 'farang countries' still barely recovering themselves from economical downturn. The last even K. Thaksin couldn't have done much about (apart from handing out more tax-money).
This is just my opinion and it might offend people but I believe it to be true
The government has been far to nice to the red shirts. They have been more concerned about looking good than they have in punishing the criminals. The red shirts should have been crushed. As is they were merely coddled told it was not there fault and given free rides home.
Time to think of Thailand and not what is nice for the red shirts. Give them the same consideration they gave Bangkok. If the situation was reversed they would not handle you in such a nice way.
anti-current government?
and the military? Mr 30%s. They don't care about the people. Nobody elected them. Nobody elected this government. BJT changed sides. So a vote for them didn't count really for much.
Block, ban all indipendant media., web sites. Arrest 16 year olds for holding a placard saying he saw dead people in Rachaprasong! A rant indeed. Oh yes. Things may be good in Pattaya but not here in Bangkok. Tourism is on the slide. Our business is suffering but those in power they couldn't care less. This is what you get from overthrowing an elected government. Sorry 2 elected governments and 3 prime ministers. The clock had to reset. Look at the history. Anytime change, modernisation begins here it has to be supressed. Everyone can see who really runs Thailand and they're so greedy. Are they buddhists? Downhill since the coup.
Here we go again. The MPs were elected, MPs form a government. If its MPs of one party its mostly a majority government, if it's MP's of various parties it's a coalition (like now in the UK).
The army in it's coup in 2006 was greeted with flowers. Probably because K. Thaksin was starting to slide on a slippery slope down to 'I say, so you do'. Newspapers were pressured, people asking awkward questions rebuked, tax-money handed-out to supporters, nepotism, cronyism, etc. Elections after the coup still dubious with TRT proxies. PAD come up, similar to UDD, but less violent. PM's road-map may not be perfect, but as a framework which can be filled-in by all in open-minded co-operation it is sufficient. Being only negative like the PTP doesn't help.
Business is recovering, but maybe not in your sector? Tourism is down, will stay down for awhile. Bomb attacks don't help, neither rainy season or 'farang countries' still barely recovering themselves from economical downturn. The last even K. Thaksin couldn't have done much about (apart from handing out more tax-money).
There is no point in rehashing this again. Most people who are not completely biased understand there were real reasons for the coup. It wasn't just a blatant power grab by the military, although Thaksin apologists will never acknowledge this. In any case, I have been surprised on occasion that there are some on this forum who support the cause of the reds, but are smart enough to see the harm that Thaksin caused and do not simply spout blatantly false rhetoric about the coup. I think posters like Babcock are in a small minority. No reason to give his opinion more credence than it deserves.
It is important everyone remeber the coup was a symptom of the problem, not a cause. The downhill slide started in 2001 when Thaksin was found not guilty of asset concealment in an extremely unsettling legal opinion that to this day affects the credibility of the court. His insatiable ego trip and all the subsequent problems began after that when he felt invincible, and others realized that the fledgling democratic movement of the late 90's was about to be mercilessly pummeled by the emrging tyrant.
These fundamental issues have not yet been resolved. There has been alot of effort to widen the problem to include other aspects of society which most people could compromise on and find a middle ground if they were not tied to the intractable issue of Thaksin. That has no solution short of eliminating him and his minions in any way possible. The bombings, subsequent clampdowns, and I'm sure in time further riots and violent skirmishes will continue until the majority of red supporters decide they have had enough and denounce Thaksin. With that element removed, reconcilliation can begin in earnest.
Of course, this may never happen, and we will simply have to wait for Thaksin and his supporters to die, and fresh young minds to rise into positions of authority who can look past the poison he has introduced to society. In that case, get ready for a decade or more of terrorist attacks by the violent faction of the reds. People in the south of Thailand and the Middle East live with this threat everyday. We will all need to learn to do so as well. We are lucky in that the wounds of Thai society don't really go that deep, but require constant amplification by the Thaksin regime to remain open and festering. Eventually he will be gone and they will heal on their own.
Most of the Thais who are anti red have no problems supporting the legitimate causes of injustices put forth by the reds, but simply can not accept subjugation under the square faced dictator.
There are many possiblities of which group planted the bomb, yellows, reds, southern terroist, and government, but given the history of the location and what this site means to one group (reds) any thinking man or woman could eliminate most of the suspects.
This is just my opinion and it might offend people but I believe it to be true
The government has been far to nice to the red shirts. They have been more concerned about looking good than they have in punishing the criminals. The red shirts should have been crushed. As is they were merely coddled told it was not there fault and given free rides home.
Time to think of Thailand and not what is nice for the red shirts. Give them the same consideration they gave Bangkok. If the situation was reversed they would not handle you in such a nice way.
Yes I agree with you the red shirts have a convenient built in for-getter. That would change in a heart beat if they did any thing right. But alas.
I really don't think there are that many red shirts most Thais are peace loving. They may agree with some of the things the red shirts claim they want but do not agree with what they do. Unfortunately they have a loud mouth and that is all the world hears. If they were to change there thinking and think of the welfare of Thailand they could work with the Government for more equality in Thailand. If they were to do this there would be a lot of the people sitting on the side lines who would jump in.
It would take compromise on all sides not just one side demanding. The red shirts have demonstrated the failure of just demanding with no compromise. The opposition would have to change there attitude also. The one big problem is that people would have to forget there own little plans and work for the greater good. This might result in them not getting reelected. And that to any politician is unthinkable.
Why give balance to a group with such a track record of terrorist acts? This isn't a garden party.
Why? Just to be fair!
Till now there is no proof who did this, only many speculations. Many good, bad, interesting arguments for and against. Only party not accused yet are the aliens (the real ones that is). As I said, IMHO it's red/UDD sympathisers, but that still allows me to try to keep an open-mind!
I don't see the point in giving equal weight to ridiculous theories. The theory that the government did it is ridiculous.
For some the theory that those peace-loving reds did it, is equally ridiculous. I don't feel up to weighting theories, even if I have my own opinion. Call it 'insufficient data'
Why would you even consider the possibility that this wasn't the work of the red shirts? You aren't thinking that perhaps some group with a vested interest in keepin the SOE in place did this are you? Say, to forestall some serious problem in the possibility that something disturbing happens that has nothing to do with politics?
Isn't it obvious that the redshirts enjoy the SoE- (which this act is certain to prolong) and that they really believe that a bomb at a bus stop killing some people will bring down the government. They are so ignorant of world opinion that they look forward to scuttling any international sympathy that they enjoy?That they are so ignorant of tactics that, of rather than setting up a bomb that does much greater damage they opt for a bus stop?(let's face it- bus stops don't attract the crowds that- say- shopping centers on a Saturday afternoon do.)
Nah- the reds did it. Morons, to a man.
Why give balance to a group with such a track record of terrorist acts? This isn't a garden party.
Why? Just to be fair!
Till now there is no proof who did this, only many speculations. Many good, bad, interesting arguments for and against. Only party not accused yet are the aliens (the real ones that is). As I said, IMHO it's red/UDD sympathisers, but that still allows me to try to keep an open-mind!
I don't see the point in giving equal weight to ridiculous theories. The theory that the government did it is ridiculous.
Hi Jingthing.. dont think we've yet crossed paths directly in a thread on TV yet.. but I read you often.. so.. Greetings!
You said: "The theory that the government did it is ridiculous."
Err.. I'd have to stop you there. After all, TIT.. The theory that the government did it is NOT ridiculous. These folks don't just do "ridiculous", they put a spitshine on it that, from the ground, could blind a jetliner pilot at 40K'. But in THIS case, it's just hundreds of times less ridiculous than the theory that the Reds DIDN'T do it.
As I'm sure you'll agree; there is very little (in Thailand) that can be quantified "absolutely".. but in a relative comparison, it's easy to see the MOST LIKELY culprit of these terrorist actions. Let's face it: If it waddles, quacks, uses it's webbed feet to paddle, lays its eggs, preens it's feathers, and does funny TV commecials for Aflak Insurance LIKE A DUCK?? Then guess what.. ? It's prolly gonna be ข้าวผัดเป็ด tonight!!!
This Government doesnt NEED to try to make the Reds look "bad"; coz the Reds have already done that work, for them.
anti-current government?
and the military? Mr 30%s. They don't care about the people. Nobody elected them. Nobody elected this government. BJT changed sides. So a vote for them didn't count really for much.
Block, ban all indipendant media., web sites. Arrest 16 year olds for holding a placard saying he saw dead people in Rachaprasong! A rant indeed. Oh yes. Things may be good in Pattaya but not here in Bangkok. Tourism is on the slide. Our business is suffering but those in power they couldn't care less. This is what you get from overthrowing an elected government. Sorry 2 elected governments and 3 prime ministers. The clock had to reset. Look at the history. Anytime change, modernisation begins here it has to be supressed. Everyone can see who really runs Thailand and they're so greedy. Are they buddhists? Downhill since the coup.
You sound like you are on Thackys PR team, when you bribe your way into office , you were not elected, dont let the facts interfere with your post.
This is just my opinion and it might offend people but I believe it to be true
The government has been far to nice to the red shirts. They have been more concerned about looking good than they have in punishing the criminals. The red shirts should have been crushed. As is they were merely coddled told it was not there fault and given free rides home.
Time to think of Thailand and not what is nice for the red shirts. Give them the same consideration they gave Bangkok. If the situation was reversed they would not handle you in such a nice way.
The problem with the label 'red shirts' is that there are many legitimate pro-democracy supporters who happen to be UDD member, or have a red shirt. To separate those from the minority who are militant is the main problem the government faces. Keep in mind that the lower classes (no offense meant by this label) have very valid grieves which need to be addressed in a constructive manner. That means education, self-sufficiency, self-reliance, participation in a democratic process. And start to forget about hand-outs.
Yes there is some truth in what you say. How ever I believe that most of those people have drifted away from the red shirts. There was a special on Air Asia about a week ago. All though it had red shirt leanings it showed a lot of citizens who are for democracy and condemned what the red shirts were doing. It was a real shock to me the size and determination of them. The English media well peaceful demonstrators don't sell news papers.
My question is if the red shirts want democracy and condemn the current system the same one used in Canada and Great Britain why don't they send letters and telephone calls to there ministers. By doing that there ministers will get the message and do every thing in there power to deliver what ever it is they are being asked to deliver. If the red shirts had the people they say they do and they all did this several times there ministers would get the message far better than invading hospitals sends it.
We some times forget that the first and primary job of a elected official is to get him self reelected and he will go to any length to do that. That is not a slam against Thailand that is the truth in most countries. Just a sad state of affairs.
Seems to me elected officials are interested in one thing only, self enrichment, getting their nose in the trough, your logic cannot be applied to Thailand.
The Minister believed that the incident could have been engineered by ill-intentioned people. He said CCTVs on the scene were not working and the police must take some time to investigate and gather evidences before an arrest of the bombers could be made. - Nation CCTVs on the scene were not working? Or did someone order it all to be switched off?
The Minister believed that the incident could have been engineered by ill-intentioned people. He said CCTVs on the scene were not working and the police must take some time to investigate and gather evidences before an arrest of the bombers could be made. - Nation CCTVs on the scene were not working? Or did someone order it all to be switched off?
Or did someone disable it prior to the bombing in order not to be recognized? Some groups have a track record of disabling and destroying CCTV in areas in which they perform misdeeds.
<br />The Minister believed that the incident could have been engineered by ill-intentioned people. He said CCTVs on the scene were not working and the police must take some time to investigate and gather evidences before an arrest of the bombers could be made. - Nation CCTVs on the scene were not working? Or did someone order it all to be switched off?<br />
<br /><br />Or did someone disable it sometime prior to the bombing in order not to be recognized? Some groups have a track record of disabling CCTV in areas in which they perform misdeeds.<br />
<br /><br /><br />
The red-shirt disable the cam after they capture the place, and police cannot get it to fox it. However if you disable the cam now, isn't it not an alarm to the police right away that something fishy is about to happen, hence the police will immediately send in more reinforcement?
The red-shirt disable the cam after they capture the place, and police cannot get it to fox it. However if you disable the cam now, isn't it not an alarm to the police right away that something fishy is about to happen, hence the police will immediately send in more reinforcement?
I doubt the system is so advanced as to trigger alarms when a camera is disabled, but it is possible. And even if there is an alarm system I seriously doubt a faulty camera would warrant swift action by government technicians. I don't know what system is in place here. Do you?
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Jingthing, on 2010-07-26 15:11:10, said:
