Posted 2010-07-30 10:52:12
People back tax-funded welfare state: survey
By The Nation
Respondents to a survey favour making Thailand a "welfare state" - and are willing to pay more tax for that goal.
The survey was part of a study begun in May by the Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI). It found that the six social benefits most wanted by Thais are more education subsidies, free or low medical bills, vocational-training assistance, pensions, unemployment assistance and funding for the underprivileged, senior TRDI researcher Suwanna Tullayawasinphong said yesterday at a Bangkok seminar.
"If it can really be done, we are all willing to pay more tax," the study quoted the conclusion by the respondents, who live in 14 provinces across the country. Fifty people were selected randomly from each province from a variety of educational backgrounds and jobs to represent the province.
The TRDI study, which was completed recently, looked into a number of social-welfare benefits the state could introduce over the next 10 years, based on models of three key types of welfare in the West: complete welfare in Scandinavia, welfare for low-income earners in certain US states, and benefits for selected careers as in Germany.
The government has put state welfare on the national agenda and aims to put the system in effect in the next seven years.
In the education category, respondents wanted free transport and meals in addition to existing subsidies on tuition, uniforms, textbooks and notebooks for the 12-year compulsory levels. Graduate studies should also be free in certain fields for good students who lack finances, the survey found.
To pay for improved welfare benefits, respondents said they would accept a rise in value added tax (VAT) from 7 per cent to 10 per cent, but wanted to see fair tax requirements and transparent collection.
Some said higher tariffs should be imposed on liquor and tobacco, as well as on inheritance and sale of land.
 -- The Nation 2010-07-30
Posted 2010-07-30 11:56:25
Of course, it is a good idea! However, it is wishful thinking. How much of the extra tax money will be used to finance welfare?
Posted 2010-07-30 12:56:03
 TackyToo, on 2010-07-30 11:56:25, said:
Of course, it is a good idea! However, it is wishful thinking. How much of the extra tax money will be used to finance welfare?
Wishfull thinking...fools paridise. When the Govt gets involved, half the money (probably far more in Thailand) collected goes into the admin cost structure, How can you expect to buy the same service on half the money available. Its only the Govt that says collecting more tax will give you the benefits. It simply cannot work.
Far better to boost education, including self development, so future generations can pay their own way without increasing the size of govt.
Has there ever been a welfare state working without running in deficit?
Thailand is a country of ...."oh cannot" attitude. Where I come from people say....."oh why not" and get on and "do it"
The education system needs revamping to increase entreprenural skills in the students instead of mindless (mob of sheep ) chanting back to the teachers.
There will always be winners and losers, but Thai kids are educated (brainwashed) into a life of "one size fits all" low achievement mediocracy. (I have been involved in the education of Thai students so have seen first hand what is deemed to be education here)
Only by bringing the education system into the 21st century is there is there any chance for the future population to develop the skills needed to determine their own destiny.
Posted 2010-07-30 14:01:22
A basic welfare system coupled to a tax decent tax system could be very good for thailand.
We should have system where everyone including the poorest pay some tax and everyone including the richest get some government welfare. Then we all feel we get something in return for our tax money and when we see government waste we see our tax money being wasted. I don't think its coincidence that the most corrupt politicians are elected by areas that have the lowest %'s of tax payers. After all these politicians are not stealing their voters money only the tax of the bangkok elite; whom their voters don't like anyway.
It would help the poor more if all of these commodity subsidies on sugar etc were removed and the government used the money saved to just give out basic cost of living handouts to everyone; avoiding giving free to smugglers and big businesses who trade these commodities.
And private health care in this country gouges even more than the US. my wife was in a private A&E with a sprained ankle and they wanted to do an x-ray, doctor seemed to think it was really important and they he could not diagnose without it. I pulled out 30,000B from my wallet and said if he personally paid for the x-ray and found anything relevant I would give him this cash. He didn't that up the offer but did try to sell us crutches for 2000B and 200B of medicine about 2500B. I think a hau hin property developer has more integrity than a doctor in thailand. The socialised universal health system in canada and europe are much more efficient than this shit
Edited by hazz, 2010-07-30 14:02:48.
Posted 2010-07-30 14:33:04
IMHO, tax payers are not too happy.
Posted 2010-07-30 14:33:39
I'm surpised free cake and ice cream wasn't on the wish list also.
Posted 2010-07-30 14:40:52
Pib, on 2010-07-30 14:33:39, said: I'm surpised free cake and ice cream wasn't on the wish list also.
It is, but given out at Yellow/Red protest site only.
Posted 2010-07-30 16:11:34
It's very much a pipe dream I'm afraid. Three points extra on the VAT won't even begin to pay the cost of the administration, without having any money for benefits.
Thai civil service efficiency ( or lack thereof) could drive these costs even higher .
...and somehow, I have this vision of the benefits being paid to those who have paid the most for them, when they submitted their application for assistance. Need to think about that one for a while -- hmmmm -- bribery to get welfare !
Nahhh -- forget the whole idea of a welfare state here -- this is Thailand !
Edited by tigermonkey, 2010-07-30 16:14:19.
Posted 2010-07-30 17:12:41
I have fleed from the largets welfare state in the world. Came here in search of greater freedom. This is very bad news for me and for Thailand.
Posted 2010-07-30 19:03:07
My question, who is the TDRI and where does their money come from. Are they gov't funded or privately funded by a George Soros type person(s) who wish to transpose the gov't as the US has been transformed under Soros guidance and money with lots of Institutes and "public interest" groups all funded by a few people with a definite agenda.<br>
Posted 2010-07-30 19:19:20
This is a very good initiative by our dear leader. Not like the previous three.
Edited by SamritT, 2010-07-30 19:19:43.
Posted 2010-07-30 19:25:44
Since Thai's like sweets, I recommend the govt try the free cake and ice cream first...see what it really costs...check the peoples reaction, and then consider the additional programs...would be a good election soundbite.
Posted 2010-07-30 19:31:58
There is zero administrative cost associated with an increase in VAT. Whether it is 7% or 10%, the same collection procedures are undertaken. VAT is an efficient tax because it captures tax at the point of transaction. Much more difficult to undertake VAT non compliance than personal income tax non compliance.
Posted 2010-07-30 21:23:56
How can they afford this when they need to create new army divisions (read: military welfare) in several provinces to keep a boot on the people's throats until their voting patterns change?
Posted 2010-07-30 21:52:31
And like the Thais we will be included in the new higher tax scheme to help pay for all this, but excluded from receiving any of the benefits.
I will not be out there celebrating the good news.
Edited by Beetlejuice, 2010-07-30 21:55:32.
Posted 2010-07-30 22:18:36
If said wealth was directed civilly and socially, instead of an amassed and very-well entrenched military and corporate complex.....imagine what a civilisation we might be? Nanny states don't function if the rule is to suppress, not nurture.
Posted 2010-07-30 22:25:00
geriatrickid, on 2010-07-30 19:31:58, said:
There is zero administrative cost associated with an increase in VAT. Whether it is 7% or 10%, the same collection procedures are undertaken. VAT is an efficient tax because it captures tax at the point of transaction. Much more difficult to undertake VAT non compliance than personal income tax non compliance.
Agree 100% with the zero cost of gathering an increase of VAT. Although there IS a cost in implimenting it.
But what about the army or public servants required to administer the welfare programs. Interviewing the claimants. the data entry, the accountancty of keeping tabs on who is paid what and for how long plus the watchers watching the watchers.....my god all the increase of VAT is gone before its paid out to those trying to claim what was taken off them ....supposedly to provide the welfare state. It simply doesnt work.
Just look at every country with full welfare systems...every one increasing deficits....increasing taxes on anything they can, just to stave off the inevitable collapse of the monetary system
But does appeal to those with the mentality of getting something for nothing....except they dont realise, they would have had it their own piggy bank anyway.....if it wasnt for the increased tax grab.
Simple basic arithrimitic. You cant collect a dollar,...... deduct 50% admin cost ......... and then pay out a dollar back to the claiment. Simpy doesnt work!!
But the politicens love it because it grows the Govt, and increases their power over the people, who become slaves to the welfare state.
Education is the best welfare system. Give a man a fish (welfare) and he eats for a day...teach him how to fish and he eats forever. (without welfare)
Posted 2010-07-30 22:50:34
SamritT, on 2010-07-30 19:19:20, said:
This is a very good initiative by our dear leader. Not like the previous three.
If "dear leader" is K. Abhisit, and he really did initiate this poll leading to a welfare state program, it only proves one thing -- he was far too long in the UK and was fully indoctrinated to the UK mentality -- does he truly think like Thai or a Brit ?
What were his previous three initiatives which weren't so good ?
Edited by tigermonkey, 2010-07-30 22:53:00.
Posted 2010-07-30 22:59:48
I am in the social security system and it works well for me and my staff.
Everybody seems to appreciate it and the quality of medical care is excellent.
I see no reason why it could not be cost effectively expanded over the next few years and be developed into wider, more general welfare system.
Could be very good for the country I think.
Posted 2010-07-31 01:57:30
A government powerful enough to give you everything is powerful enough to take away everything you have, especially your freedom. 
Posted 2010-07-31 02:12:49
philw, on 2010-07-30 22:59:48, said:
I am in the social security system and it works well for me and my staff.
Everybody seems to appreciate it and the quality of medical care is excellent.
I see no reason why it could not be cost effectively expanded over the next few years and be developed into wider, more general welfare system.
Could be very good for the country I think.
I have friend he paid Thai Social welfare for many years, then he lost his job and got Zero help, ended up living on the street finally he took refuge in a Christain hostel in Pattaya.
Interested exactly how does the system works so well for you? Do you get healthcare cheaper than somebody that doesn't pay?
Edited by monkfish, 2010-07-31 02:14:09.
Posted 2010-07-31 10:48:57
visions, on 2010-07-30 22:25:00, said:
geriatrickid, on 2010-07-30 19:31:58, said:
There is zero administrative cost associated with an increase in VAT. Whether it is 7% or 10%, the same collection procedures are undertaken. VAT is an efficient tax because it captures tax at the point of transaction. Much more difficult to undertake VAT non compliance than personal income tax non compliance.
Agree 100% with the zero cost of gathering an increase of VAT. Although there IS a cost in implimenting it.
But what about the army or public servants required to administer the welfare programs. Interviewing the claimants. the data entry, the accountancty of keeping tabs on who is paid what and for how long plus the watchers watching the watchers.....my god all the increase of VAT is gone before its paid out to those trying to claim what was taken off them ....supposedly to provide the welfare state. It simply doesnt work.
Just look at every country with full welfare systems...every one increasing deficits....increasing taxes on anything they can, just to stave off the inevitable collapse of the monetary system
Good points. My mother worked for the welfare in the states she dealt with the clients coming in the door. She told me thee was 19 levels of buerocasy in the system before they got to her.
The idea is a very good one in spite of peoples own prejudices and low opinions of Thais. How ever the setting it up and administration of it are beyond the governments capabilities at this time. The Government must change first. I do not mean change the people in it I mean change the way things happen. This like any thing else in any country takes time.
Posted 2010-07-31 13:26:32
Quote Fifty people were selected randomly from each province from a variety of educational backgrounds and jobs to represent the province.
gonna base policy and decisions on how a few hundred people answered loaded questioning???
could used one of online polling services and get what millions think, with publicly open result charts...
This is plain and simply bait to ctach more money for mia noi,.
Posted 2010-08-01 00:04:29
yellow1red1, on 2010-07-31 13:26:32, said:
Quote Fifty people were selected randomly from each province from a variety of educational backgrounds and jobs to represent the province.
gonna base policy and decisions on how a few hundred people answered loaded questioning???
could used one of online polling services and get what millions think, with publicly open result charts...
This is plain and simply bait to ctach more money for mia noi,.
And, what exactly was the question? How was it worded? Makes a difference how you ask the question.
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