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[chantorn]

sunanta, on 2010-08-01 20:19:44, said:

JorakaeNoi, on 2010-07-30 11:22:41, said:

There should be financial rewards for members of the public who can provide information about corrupt officials and automatic jail sentences of no less than two years plus prohibition on further being employed as a government official for life. The whole transfer to a less active position makes a mockery of any attempt to stamp out corruption.

after the first year you would run out of thai's

I suppose Farang never slip the 100 Baht note to the highway officer for speeding?
I suppose only Thai corrupt in Thailand.

[Mitker]

iko, on 2010-07-31 16:08:47, said:

If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

This is precisely where all the problem starts. By accepting the very principle of such a deal you manage to escape the legal consequences of your acts (the law being fair or not is another point); you prevent the state to enforce the law; and you reward the police force that does a business hijacking the law for personal enrichment.

Personally, that's what I see deeply wrong in it.

[robblok]

LivinLOS, on 2010-08-01 09:13:45, said:

iko, on 2010-07-31 16:08:47, said:

I had many "close encounters" with thai cops. They always behave decently. In 2 accidents (car + car, car + bike) they took my side and the thai guys had to pay (in one case, a lot of money, for a thai). I personally know a couple of cops and they are very decent persons (they are ot "friends" but i can tell when somebody is a bad person or not, like anybody else). If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

So thats OK when the person 'paying the little bit to go home' has committed a crime against you is it ? As happened for example in the killing of my mates 15 year old daughter.. Or another mates kidnapped, drugged, wife..

When you allow people to pay to break the law.. It means there is no law, only a price to do what you wish.

Spot on LOS the guy basically says as long as i benefit from it and don't go to jail its ok. But they will do the same for others and so crime is left unpunished.

I am sure that he would bribe his way out of a drunk driving accident while the family of the person who is the victim will want justice and would see it from an other point of view.

Im sure he would want justice too if he were paralyzed in by a drunk Thai and would be appalled if the guy went free because of a bribe.

[khaowong1]

Boater, on 2010-07-30 11:24:31, said:

if they arrested every officer for corruption there would be no police left !!

[naiharn]

chantorn, on 2010-08-02 06:27:41, said:

I suppose Farang never slip the 100 Baht note to the highway officer for speeding?

I suppose only Thai corrupt in Thailand.

yes, that's about right.

You see, to be corrupt, you have to be an official or a person in a position of power or privilege, and be able to use that power or privilege to extract money from others. For example a Thai policeman who pulls over a motorcyclist who was more than likely done nothing wrong, and gives him the choice of a 100 baht fine directly into the cop's pocket, or a 500 baht fine at the police station plus lots of inconvenience (e.g. impounding of his motorbike). The victim who pays the 100 baht is not corrupt, but it is illustrative of the Thai personality that you should try to argue it is.

What you are basically doing is blaming the victim. How very Thai!

Very few farangs in Thailand are officials. Very few are in a position of power where they can extract payments from people on the basis of that power. That is why I answer 'yes' to your question.

[naiharn]

jayjay0, on 2010-07-31 02:24:07, said:

junglist, on 2010-07-30 13:03:31, said:

robint, on 2010-07-30 12:49:39, said:

show me a country that does not have a corruption problem and i'll show you 180 that do

yes most do but not this bad...

Sorry to break you disillusionment but on a list of 180 countries  Thailand was rated as the 84th most honest country. That means that  there are 96 more corrupt.
following is the link. Unfortunately they are from 2008 but things in the world haven't changed that much. For the life of me I don't know how you can live in a country right next to Burma and make a statement like that


http://www.infopleas...erceptions.html

An interesting point, however:

• a very large number of countries ranked worse than Thailand are complete basket cases. Thailand is not a complete basket case. Trying hard, but not there yet. And Thais are very proud of their country. I think most would loath being compared with many of the countries below them on the list.
• Burma is one of the worst basket cases you could find. Not much point in using it as a reference point.
• interesting to see some of the countries rated better than Thailand: India, China!, Ghana, Namibia, Cuba

[iko]

Mitker, on 2010-08-02 09:47:08, said:

iko, on 2010-07-31 16:08:47, said:

If for corruption you mean paying 5k baht directly to the cop instead of 10k to the judge (or to the government) it doesn't look so terrible to me. They normally give you the choice. "you want to go to jail or you want to go home?". If you want to go home, you pay the tea money. If you want to abide by the law, you go to jail or pay havier fines. Having a choice is always better than havng none. How many farangs on this forum, if caught working illegaly, driving under the influence or something like that would prefer to "follow the rules" instead of getting away with few thousand bahts?

This is precisely where all the problem starts. By accepting the very principle of such a deal you manage to escape the legal consequences of your acts (the law being fair or not is another point); you prevent the state to enforce the law; and you reward the police force that does a business hijacking the law for personal enrichment.

Personally, that's what I see deeply wrong in it.

I was not talking about felonies and especially seriuos fenolies. Comparing a "tea mone" for a passport stamp or a speed driving with homicides, rapes and kidnappings it's a bit too much. I'll make you a simple example; a policeman stops you for speed. Then he finds you a nice bloke and decides not to fine you. Is that ok for you? Or you gonna insist to be fined? Cuz, if you really "respect" the law you must insist to be fined. If you are the guy that insists to be fined also if the cop would let you go, you can say something. Otherwise, no.

[metroman]

Thank heavens for the judicial system so these public servants can prove their innocence.

[metroman]

chantorn, on 2010-08-02 06:27:41, said:

sunanta, on 2010-08-01 20:19:44, said:

JorakaeNoi, on 2010-07-30 11:22:41, said:

There should be financial rewards for members of the public who can provide information about corrupt officials and automatic jail sentences of no less than two years plus prohibition on further being employed as a government official for life. The whole transfer to a less active position makes a mockery of any attempt to stamp out corruption.

after the first year you would run out of thai's

I suppose Farang never slip the 100 Baht note to the highway officer for speeding?
I suppose only Thai corrupt in Thailand.

Actually its 200 baht and I can give you the names of MANY Thais that have paid on-the-spot fines for real and imagined infractions.
The vast majority of Farangs pay the impromptu fines to honor the well established Thai custom.

[Deeral]

I'm shocked and stunned....these guys are going to be in so much trouble......for getting caught?

[Deeral]

metroman, on 2010-08-16 08:31:53, said:

chantorn, on 2010-08-02 06:27:41, said:

sunanta, on 2010-08-01 20:19:44, said:

JorakaeNoi, on 2010-07-30 11:22:41, said:

There should be financial rewards for members of the public who can provide information about corrupt officials and automatic jail sentences of no less than two years plus prohibition on further being employed as a government official for life. The whole transfer to a less active position makes a mockery of any attempt to stamp out corruption.

after the first year you would run out of thai's

I suppose Farang never slip the 100 Baht note to the highway officer for speeding?
I suppose only Thai corrupt in Thailand.

Actually its 200 baht and I can give you the names of MANY Thais that have paid on-the-spot fines for real and imagined infractions.
The vast majority of Farangs pay the impromptu fines to honor the well established Thai custom.

it is a sad reflection on Thailand - a matter of national shame - that the average Thai citizen considers it perfectly acceptable the an officer of the law can stop them at random ANYWHERE and demand money off them with absolutely no other reason than to feather his (and his colleagues nest).
the reason that both thai AND foreigners succumb to this is that the police can then make life SOOOO difficult for them if they don't pay that they choose the "easy" but ILLEGAL way out. In most countries this is not bribery - it is extortion.

Edited by Deeral, 2010-08-16 09:11:20.

[Cuchulainn]

Disband this legal mafia NOW!!

[SamritT]

Cuchulainn, on 2010-08-16 11:29:51, said:

Disband this legal mafia NOW!!

How?

[Deeral]

Inform the police!