Posted 2010-08-01 06:48:21
The clear, overall thesis of every one of these kinds of "child abuse" stories is not about who is guilty or not; nor even who has truly been abused or not. No; the clear, overall thesis of every one of these kinds of "child abuse" stories are how the law enforcement agencies (if one can truly recognize them as such) handle the situation from beginning to end.
That's right; the entire legal process is ludicrous at best.
How they discover a crime is being committed
How they handle the testimony of the said witness
How they investigate for possible truth behind the witnesses statement
How they perform an investigation into the alleged perpetrator
How they approach the alleged perpetrator
How they seal of a crime scene
How they manage a crime scene and keep it untainted
How they engage in the tedious and time consuming business of forensics
How they document and preserve the evidence gathered.
etc, etc. yada, yada! It is akin to a bunch of cows trampling through and crapping on their food that has been laid out nicely for them. I apologize for the bluntness of my observation, yet the seriousness of sending someone away for life cannot be lost here in light of the half-assed investigation techniques. How many innocents are rotting away in Thai jails because they were the fall-guy or girl, or dried-up sugar-daddy?
Swiftly on the heels of this charade is the complete and utter ineptness of the media. They are like Jonah Jameson and his white whale vendetta against Spiderman. No matter what the cost, the order of the day is misconstrue, tangle and confuse the story in order to sell subscriptions.
Who cares if the child was abused? That is a sincere and honest question that galls me; because so far I have seen absolutely no evidence of the children seeing any results towards getting a fair representation in these cases. Better yet; who cares about the ones who have yet to be abused. I still see no evidence. Sure; there are splinter groups and individuals out to do their very best; but they do not even make a dent in this human market.
The clear problem to the answer; and answer to the problem are the law enforcement agencies. I believe they are the ones responsible for this disease.
If the cure isn't working; fire the doctor, and get another cure; because it usually means the doctor is treating the symptoms instead of seeking a cure. And one begs to ask the question, "Why is that?".
Just my two bits.
Moskito, your comment, suggesting that old men with 18 year old women being wrong, is prudish and ignorant at best. How do you feel about seeing a Catholic nun, or an aged woman walking down the Soi with a boy? It seems to me that you have been getting too much of the wrong information pumped into your gourd. These things are never -at first - what they appear to be; yet all it takes are people indoctrinated with some feeble-minded belief to open their head-hole and start an unnecessary row.
Edited by cup-O-coffee, 2010-08-01 06:51:33.
Posted 2010-08-01 12:26:42
 cup-O-coffee, on 2010-08-01 06:48:21, said:
Moskito, your comment, suggesting that old men with 18 year old women being wrong, is prudish and ignorant at best . . These things are never -at first - what they appear to be; yet all it takes are people indoctrinated with some feeble-minded belief to open their head-hole and start an unnecessary row.
How very true! I have often walked with a teenage relative by my side, and no-one pays the slightest attention. If I walk here in Thailand with the teenage son or daughter of Thai friends, again no-one pays any attention. But Moskito would immediately label me as a pedophile. Yes, Moskito, cup-O-coffee is absolutely spot on. In my view, such instant judgements are prudish, ignorant and feeble-minded.
Edited by Wozzit, 2010-08-01 12:33:04.
Posted 2010-08-01 18:48:02
moskito, on 2010-07-30 15:33:27, said:
Btw, I find it annoying to see old fellas about 60-70 years of age walking around with a 18-20y.o. too in my opinion they are not much better as the pädophiles we talk often here in TV Forum
The old fellas that you refer to are probably getting their libido fired up one last time, thus fulfilling a lifelong dream.
The 18-20 y.o. that you refer to is probably getting a fair chance of inheriting a fortune when the old geezer dies, thus fulfilling a lifelong dream.
No laws are being broken.
Therefore, I'm curious to know, moskito, what exactly is the basis of your annoyance? Do I detect just a wee bit of jealousy here?
Posted 2010-08-01 18:56:23
Also, pedophilia is actually sex or attraction to prepubescent children. 18 isn't even close to that. Next ...
Edited by Jingthing, 2010-08-01 18:56:53.
Posted 2010-08-01 20:47:02
gemini81, on 2010-07-31 20:26:05, said:
MB1, on 2010-07-30 19:09:47, said:
Tanaka, on 2010-07-30 19:05:06, said:
moskito, on 2010-07-30 15:33:27, said:
I take no sides here and I hate foreigners coming to Thailand just for the small girls or even underaged girls or boys. I just hate the kind of false reports where Newspapers, Magazines and internet Forums make a guy guilty before he is proofed guilty. In my ten years here in Phuket I have never seen child abuse, except we are talking about some underaged 16 y.o. girls in Thai Karaoke Bars.
Btw, I find it annoying to see old fellas about 60-70 years of age walking around with a 18-20y.o. too in my opinion they are not much better as the pädophiles we talk often here in TV Forum
Also another point if I may make it, some of the people who look and see and older guy with a young girl 18-20 years old, could infact be a lot older than she looks, also the young girl could be his daughter..
its nasty to see nonetheless. thais call 'em "tao hua ngoo" ...old snakeheads.
Did you ever wonder why Thais have a word for it? Because it is so common in Thailand among Thais. Go back a few years and look at the photos of important people in Thailand. Thai history is full of VIP's who could be called snakeheads. Snakeheads are an old, old tradition in Thailand. The only people it really upsets are the Falang who come here with their culture on their backs like a turtle.
Posted 2010-08-01 21:28:20
So, what is happening to the accused? Is he still going to attend court? Is he still banned from Thailand, even though he is purportedly here?
Posted 2010-08-02 13:26:30
elkangorito, on 2010-08-01 21:28:20, said:
So, what is happening to the accused? Is he still going to attend court? Is he still banned from Thailand, even though he is purportedly here?
According to media reports, he arrived back from Moscow and attended the Court at the end of last week. He is due to report again 12 days thereafter. As other posters have mentioned, the Immigration ban only takes effect after the outcome of the trial or the withdrawal of charges. Mr. Pletnev is obviously playing by the rules.
Posted 2010-08-03 09:40:10
auscrank, on 2010-07-31 08:58:31, said:
The only evidence shown to us was a photo of the Russian standing next to the boy in a normal no sexual pose which most of us have done over the years with many Thai people young and old.
If that is the picture they were showing all over the news, the 'boy' looked between 22-25 years old. Don't know about you, but I consider a 25 year old a man.
Posted 2010-08-03 12:19:58
tominbkk, on 2010-08-03 09:40:10, said:
auscrank, on 2010-07-31 08:58:31, said:
The only evidence shown to us was a photo of the Russian standing next to the boy in a normal no sexual pose which most of us have done over the years with many Thai people young and old.
If that is the picture they were showing all over the news, the 'boy' looked between 22-25 years old. Don't know about you, but I consider a 25 year old a man.
I agree the 'boy' in that photo looked around mid-20s. But that is not the accuser. It was a framed photo in Mr Pletnev's house which the media, following the police into the house, seized on with their accustomed glee. It clearly showed the two wrapped up to the nines, so was certainly taken in a cold climate. I don't know who that young man is, but I feel sorry he has been dragged into this case.
Posted 2010-08-03 13:12:43
Wozzit, on 2010-08-03 12:19:58, said:
If that is the picture they were showing all over the news, the 'boy' looked between 22-25 years old. Don't know about you, but I consider a 25 year old a man.
I agree the 'boy' in that photo looked around mid-20s. But that is not the accuser. It was a framed photo in Mr Pletnev's house which the media, following the police into the house, seized on with their accustomed glee. It clearly showed the two wrapped up to the nines, so was certainly taken in a cold climate. I don't know who that young man is, but I feel sorry he has been dragged into this case.
Yeah, that's the only guy I had seen in a photograph with him, I did not know they had one of him and the accuser.
Posted 2010-08-03 15:33:47
tominbkk, on 2010-08-03 13:12:43, said:
Wozzit, on 2010-08-03 12:19:58, said:
If that is the picture they were showing all over the news, the 'boy' looked between 22-25 years old. Don't know about you, but I consider a 25 year old a man.
I agree the 'boy' in that photo looked around mid-20s. But that is not the accuser. It was a framed photo in Mr Pletnev's house which the media, following the police into the house, seized on with their accustomed glee. It clearly showed the two wrapped up to the nines, so was certainly taken in a cold climate. I don't know who that young man is, but I feel sorry he has been dragged into this case.
Yeah, that's the only guy I had seen in a photograph with him, I did not know they had one of him and the accuser.
I have heard there is one of him and the accuser sitting on a boat with some others. But not in any compromising position. I thought it had been published somewhere, but I cannot find it now. So I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this statement.
Posted 2010-08-03 19:07:42
JohnLeech, on 2010-07-30 23:29:47, said:
ericthai, on 2010-07-30 18:37:58, said: ............ personally I believe he will pay the right people and get back in either here in Thailand or get a new passport in Russia with a different name. He has too much investment in Thailand to just walk away, just my thoughts
Think again - his photo has been published pretty widely. And what " investment" do you know of? His famed " sports stadium" and " mansions" may be worth US$100,000 at the most if he was very lucky.
When I was talking about investment I was not referring to just a dollar amount, I was speaking about the complete picture meaning he would have to give up living in Thailand where he has established a home for the past what 10+ years. I would consider this more important than any dollar amount. Investment doesn't always mean money.
Also he has two houses and a business you don't consider this a fair investment and would just walk away?
Edited by ericthai, 2010-08-03 19:15:19.
Posted 2010-08-03 19:19:43
MB1, on 2010-07-30 19:00:04, said:
ericthai, on 2010-07-30 18:37:58, said:
Just1Voice, on 2010-07-30 13:21:38, said:
Curiouser and Curiouser!
1) Original reports said he was arrested, and when police searched his house they DID find evidence of child porn, but now they say no evidence was found. 
2) Thai Immigration comes out and says they are voiding his visa and blacklisting him, but apparently that didn't happen either, since he has TWICE left the country and returned.
3) Am I the only one who has serious doubts that we will never know the REAL truth of the matter?
I never saw any reports that they found child porn at his house, from the first time I heard of this they said they searched his place with a search warrant and found nothing. If they would have found something then there would have been more charges added to his arrest.
As for this visa, guess you are not reading everything, he is out on bail and once everything is finalized then he will lose his visa and be blacklisted (however, personally I believe he will pay the right people and get back in either here in Thailand or get a new passport in Russia with a different name. He has too much investment in Thailand to just walk away, just my thoughts)
First report I saw and read was here on Thai Visa, have done a thread search and dug it out....
Opening post, a piece below...which states nothing suspicious was found...
http://www.thaivisa....thai-sex-probe/
Quote posted 2010-07-07 08:34
Russian conductor bailed in Thai sex probe: consulate
MOSCOW (AFP) -- Famed Russian conductor Mihkail Pletnev has been released on bail after Thai police searched his home in Thailand as part of a probe into paedophilia, the Russian consulate said Tuesday.
Pletnev, artistic director of the acclaimed Russian National Orchestra, was released on bail after the search in the Thai resort of Pattaya, Russian consular official in Thailand Andrei Dvornikov told RIA Novosti.
police informed Pletnev that some Thai citizens who had been arrested for paedophilia and producing child porn had given evidence against him," Dvornikov said.
The police conducted a search together with Pletnev of his house, where nothing suspicious was found," he added, saying Pletnev was currently at his home in Thailand.
Thank you for the link, I never saw this, like I said the first article I read about this was they found nothing at his house, I cant recall where I read it..
Posted 2010-08-03 20:11:34
Since this whole thing is so convoluted, methinks that extortion could also be apparent.
Posted 2010-08-03 21:15:11
The longer this goes on, the more the so-called hard "evidence" we were told about at the outset seems to disappear. And what has happened to the spokesman from the NGO, Supagon Noja, I wonder? This is the man who was quoted around the world saying, "I'm very sure he won't come back to Thailand. We've been working on this case with the police for a long time now and finally had him arrested - and he's gotten away so easily." (quote from The Nation on 8 July). Khun Supagon seemed to be surprised when he did in fact return, but saw the opportunity of twisting the knife by adding, "we are convinced that we can convict him." (The Nation on-line 19 July). SInce then, this eager spokesman has not spoken! I wonder why.
Posted 2010-08-03 21:33:02
With regard to the below quote, I deleted some parts of it. Nonetheless, I agree wholeheartedly.
cup-O-coffee, on 2010-08-01 06:48:21, said:
That's right; the entire legal process is ludicrous at best.
How they discover a crime is being committed
How they handle the testimony of the said witness
How they investigate for possible truth behind the witnesses statement
How they perform an investigation into the alleged perpetrator
How they approach the alleged perpetrator
How they seal of a crime scene
How they manage a crime scene and keep it untainted
How they engage in the tedious and time consuming business of forensics
How they document and preserve the evidence gathered.
etc, etc. yada, yada! It is akin to a bunch of cows trampling through and crapping on their food that has been laid out nicely for them. I apologize for the bluntness of my observation, yet the seriousness of sending someone away for life cannot be lost here in light of the half-assed investigation techniques. How many innocents are rotting away in Thai jails because they were the fall-guy or girl, or dried-up sugar-daddy?
Swiftly on the heels of this charade is the complete and utter ineptness of the media. They are like Jonah Jameson and his white whale vendetta against Spiderman. No matter what the cost, the order of the day is misconstrue, tangle and confuse the story in order to sell subscriptions.
The clear problem to the answer; and answer to the problem are the law enforcement agencies.
Posted 2010-08-03 23:18:37
ericthai, on 2010-08-03 19:07:42, said:
JohnLeech, on 2010-07-30 23:29:47, said:
ericthai, on 2010-07-30 18:37:58, said: ............ personally I believe he will pay the right people and get back in either here in Thailand or get a new passport in Russia with a different name. He has too much investment in Thailand to just walk away, just my thoughts
Think again - his photo has been published pretty widely. And what " investment" do you know of? His famed " sports stadium" and " mansions" may be worth US$100,000 at the most if he was very lucky.
When I was talking about investment I was not referring to just a dollar amount, I was speaking about the complete picture meaning he would have to give up living in Thailand where he has established a home for the past what 10+ years. I would consider this more important than any dollar amount. Investment doesn't always mean money.
Also he has two houses and a business you don't consider this a fair investment and would just walk away?
The " complete picture" is that he has been " living in Thailand" for around three weeks a year " for the past what 10+ years" (according to Thai immigration).
The " two houses and a business" are not " also" - they are the investment I was referring to, whch is minimal for a man of his means.
From a financial perspective alone, yes, I would unquestionably " walk away" if I were him and were blacklisted rather than risk being recognized and arrested. After all, the two small houses and "sports club" could be sold, and there are plenty of other countries to visit which have similar attractions to Thailand readily available.
Edited by JohnLeech, 2010-08-03 23:20:01.
Posted 2010-08-07 07:18:06
Any updates on this case? Seems like once there is a good possibility he was framed and could be innocent the story magically falls off the radar.
Posted 2010-08-07 09:52:57
Only way he gets his career back is to get a not guilty verdict in court, settlement, or otherwise,and he is toast on the concert scene.
Except maybe in Pattaya
Edited by SomTumTiger, 2010-08-07 09:53:21.
Posted 2010-08-07 10:39:02
Posted 2010-12-04 10:03:01
tominbkk, on 2010-08-07 07:18:06, said:
Any updates on this case? Seems like once there is a good possibility he was framed and could be innocent the story magically falls off the radar.
The Russian National Orchestra issued a statement last night with the following:
Quote Investigation into the accusations made against Mikhail Pletnev closed without charge by Thai authorities
The Thai authorities informed us that the investigation surrounding the founder and music director of the Russian National Orchestra, Mr Mikhail Pletnev, was terminated on September 28 2010 and no charges were made to the Thai Court. Mr. Pletnev’s bail was lifted in October, and returned to him in late November.
Mr. Pletnev has always refuted the accusations made against him. He has been fully cooperative during Thai authorities’ investigations. Under the conditions of his bail he returned to the Thai beach resort of Pattaya (where Mr. Pletnev has owned a property for over a decade) numerous times since early July, to show his presence as instructed by the Pattaya District Court.
This has been reprinted in at least one major international news magazine. Yet, why nothing at all in the Thai media? The case was apparently "terminated" on September 28th!! Who is covering up whom? And why? And what of all the allegations of this man heading a child pedophile ring. And the statement from a senior official in the Immigration Department that he would never be allowed back in to Thailand - guilty or innocent - because of the damage he had done to the country's reputation?
Thanks to the Thai authorities, Mr Pletnev has been vilified in the world's media. If the above information is true, the Thai and international media who were quick to brand him an international criminal should immediately offer page 1 apologies for the lies they spread and the damage to this man's career and reputation.
Posted 2010-12-05 23:14:03
Child molestation investigation against Russian classical musician dropped
An investigation into accusations of child molestation by one of the world's leading classical musicians, Mikhail Pletnev, has been formally dropped without charges being pressed, the Russian National Orchestra (RNO) has confirmed. The investigation began in July, when Pletnev, 54 – the celebrated pianist who is the founder and conductor of the RNO – was arrested in Pattaya, a resort in Thailand, where he owns several properties. There were allegations that he had been involved in a child prostitution ring and had molested a minor.
Continues:
http://www.guardian....igation-dropped
Posted 2010-12-05 23:21:34
Like the Dems, dropping a charge does not proof innocent. I hate to say, but it did not proof wrong doing too.
Posted 2010-12-06 14:43:22
Buchholz, on 2010-12-05 23:14:03, said:
Child molestation investigation against Russian classical musician dropped
An investigation into accusations of child molestation by one of the world's leading classical musicians, Mikhail Pletnev, has been formally dropped without charges being pressed, the Russian National Orchestra (RNO) has confirmed. The investigation began in July, when Pletnev, 54 – the celebrated pianist who is the founder and conductor of the RNO – was arrested in Pattaya, a resort in Thailand, where he owns several properties. There were allegations that he had been involved in a child prostitution ring and had molested a minor.
Continues:
http://www.guardian....igation-dropped
But his name is forever tainted and people that attacked him here will never apologies...
Posted 2010-12-07 09:53:05
I wonder how much he pay the BiB. Just like when they are caught speeding. Money can buy Farang freedom.
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