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27 replies to this topic
Posted 2010-08-08 09:41:26
My girlfriend is on a one year tourist visa with the first entry date of the visa Jan 2010.
She has just gone back to Thailand after the second three month visa.
She has to stay back for an extended period this time as i am busy travelling around Australia for the next few months.
My question, is there an expiry period on the usage of the four three month visas? Or when is the latest date that she can use any of these visas?
Posted 2010-08-08 10:33:51
She doesn't have four x three months visas. She has a 12 month multiple entry visa. 12 months from date for first entry.
How long will she be back in Thailand for?
Posted 2010-08-08 12:17:56
She has 1 year from the first entry date.
That means that if her first entry date is 10 Jan 2010.....her final entry date will be 10 Jan 2011
She can stay for a max of 3 months per visit...and if she enters the day before the final entry date then she can stay for 3 months....this effectively allows for 15 moths of stay in Oz. So if she enters on the 9th of Jan 2011, she can stay until the 9th April 2011.
Edited by gburns57au, 2010-08-08 12:30:41.
Posted 2010-08-08 15:28:38
Sorry I have to disagree with you GB. If she has been granted a 12 month multiple entry tourist visa, she must leave Australia on or before the date that her visa expires, that is, 12 months from date of first entry into Australia. Doing a "visa run" before her visa expires doesn't get her a further three months stay unfortunately.
Whether she can apply for another substantive visa whilst in Australia will be defendant upon whether she has Condition 8503 attached to her current visa/
Posted 2010-08-08 19:58:45
I think maybe in the interests of accuracy you may want to check out the validity start time for the multi entry visa, I have a sneaky feeling that it may be from the date of grant not first entry and the visa shows a "Must not enter after" date, I am not talking about the "must not arrive after" date that is usually attached to the single entry. The single entry definately is from first entry.
Upto now I havent seen an 8503 condition on a multi entry, Seems to fly in the face of the purpose of the multi entry which allows for further travel within a set time period.
Entering just prior to the date on the visa and staying for 3 months has been done by a number of people that I personally know including my own wife. It was also mentioned in a recent post that I cant track down at the moment.
I am aware that changes are made all the time to the rules etc...I havent heard or read of any changes to this visa.
Edited by gburns57au, 2010-08-08 20:01:34.
Posted 2010-08-08 20:19:49
GB, as I have stated in many post before, I agree with what you say 99.9% of the time, but will look into this further tomorrow and post my reply. It is my position however that a 12 months multiple entry does not allow for 15 month stay if a "visa run" is done just prior to the expiry of the 12 month period. A visa valid for 12 months is valid for 12 months, after which the holder (if in Australia) then becomes an unlawful non-citizen and is subject to removal if they are unable to obtain a further substantive visa.
Posted 2010-08-08 21:35:58
I agree with GB's interpretation.
Looking now at my wife's most recent 12 month, multi-entry (676) visa:
- granted 25 Aug 09
- must not arrive after 25 Aug 2010
- permitted to stay in Oz for 3 months from date of each arrival.
Posted 2010-08-09 08:41:18
She will have 12 months from the Visa issue date to enter the country.
The first entry date you state is January 2010.
This will be the Visa issue date.
Entry is valid for 12 months from this, so final entry date will be January 2011. She can then stay 3 months from the date of last entry.
So she should be OK to stay until April 2011.
Posted 2010-08-09 10:14:15
That was what I thought too fellas, I got sidetracked with the first entry that the OP and Bridge mentioned.
Still lets see what Bridge comes up with.
Edited by gburns57au, 2010-08-09 10:17:06.
Posted 2010-08-09 10:18:01
I spoke to DIAC this morning, who did confirm that it is possible to stay 15 months on a 12 months multiple entry 676 visa , as long as the last entry was prior to the expiration of the 12 months. The DIAC officer offered a of strong word of caution that doing that may however jeopardize future application stating that "a genuine visitor does not stay 15 month". Furthermore at time of application applicant would have ticked intended time of stay 3,6 or 12 months. End of the day, can be done, but be careful.
Posted 2010-08-09 10:42:46
Thanks Bridge, at least we have the right information.
And yes it may affect any future tourist applications, as would the 12 month ME anyway even without the use of the visa to get 15 months. After coming in and out for 12 -15 momths, it would be hard to claim a genuine tourist status. The 676 visa is for Tourism and "visiting family and friends", To my mind if you are visiting family and friends then you do dont need to show that you are a genuine tourist, I know this is a matter of semantics and I havent heard of it being tested on here thus far.
Perhaps you could answer that Bridge, If the 676 application is addressed from the visiting family and friends aspect, explained in the covering letter, proof of friends in Oz etc....would that application stand to be successful for a subsequent 676 visa after say 2 or 3 have already been completed.
Posted 2010-08-09 11:57:28
Good question GB. For any Australia visa always look at the Schedule 1 and 2 criteria contained the Migration Regulations. The Schedule 1 criteria provides for how to make a valid application for a class of visa. The Schedule 2 criteria provides for the criteria that must be satisfied before the visa can be granted. Below is just part of the Schedule 2 criteria relating to a subclass 676 tourist visa.
A 676 applicant must always satisfy DIAC that they intending to visit Australia as a genuine visitor (Cl. 676.211)
Subclass 676 Tourist
Note All applicants must satisfy the primary criteria.
676.21 Criteria to be satisfied at time of application
676.211 The applicant satisfies the Minister that the applicant's expressed intention to only visit Australia is genuine.
676.212 The applicant seeks to visit Australia, or remain in Australia as a visitor:
(a) for the purpose of visiting an Australian citizen, or Australian permanent resident, who is a parent, spouse, de facto partner, child, brother or sister of the applicant; or
( for a purpose other than a purpose related to business or medical treatment.
676.213 The applicant:
(a) has adequate funds, or access to adequate funds, for personal support during the period of the visit; or
( meets the requirements of paragraph 676.221 (3) (f).
Posted 2010-08-09 13:23:12
Interesting the use of the words "visit" and "visitor" not "tourist" and "tourism"
Posted 2010-08-09 13:38:03
It thought that was the case re being able to get 15 months out of the visa which is what we will do.
Re the tourist bit of the visa she is certainly not a tourist but rather a visitor (that is visiting me) considering this is her third visa in the last 3 years i.e. one three month visa and two 12 month visas.
Posted 2010-08-13 14:22:34
Thanks for the clarification. I do find the "strong word of caution" as advised to you to be quite odd. It is a 12 month multi visa and the holder is perfectly entitled to enter Australia on the last day of its validity. That is the way the visa is designed to be used.
I would hope that any "normal" tourist doing this would not " jeopardize (any) future application" as was implied.
Trying to use one of these visas to stay for "15 months" would so expensive as to be unrealistic -- where would the holder do a visa run to ??
I also notice a couple of "new" (I think) questions on the visa application --- which (if answered honestly) would make doing so quite unrealistic. So I think DIAC has probably covered "visa runs/stay 15 months problem " pretty well before this visa is issued -- without need for the odd advice given to you by that officer.
Posted 2010-08-15 14:25:41
A 12 month multiple entry visa tells you on the visa itself when the last date of entry is. 12 months after the visa is granted. Utilising the visa for multiple 3 month stays is no problem, however, some suspicion would be raised at the point of entry (say Sydney airport) if the only departures were 1 day visa runs to New Zealand. Use the visa wisely. 9 months out of a potential 15 is OK. 15 months out of 15 means the risk of being refused entry is much higher and if that happens then further visas will be problematic.
Posted 2010-08-15 14:41:30
Posted 2010-08-15 15:24:05
I have a 12 Month Multiple Entry visa in front of me now.
Australian Visa Class TR Visitor P
Sub Class 676
Conditions MIG. REGS. SCHED. 8
8101 NO WORK
8201 MAX 3 MONTHS STUDY
8205 X-RAY IF STUDY 4 WEEKS
Granted 14 Jan 10. Must not arrive after 13 Jan 11. Multiple Travel
Holder(s) Permitted to remain in Australia for 3 months from date of each arrival.
Posted 2010-08-15 15:47:20
I have a 12 Month Multiple Entry visa in front of me now.
I think the point that SirDougless was making, was that although the 12 month multiple-entry visa effectively allows for up to 15 months stay in Australia, 'visa runs' just to keep extending the 3 month period might eventually wear thin.
A 676 visa is granted on the condition that the applicants intention is to visit Australia as a genuine visitor only. That requirement is on-going. A 676 visa can be subsequently cancelled upon arrival if immigration are not convinced that the visa holder is intending to visit Australia as a genuine visitor only.
Posted 2010-08-15 20:29:19
A friend of mine spent an average of three weeks out of Oz between trips, usually she was back in two weeks and they utilised the final entry date, there was never a problem with her entries and no mention was made at point of entry as to posssible refusals.
In my opinion the visa would be cancelled if there was a serious breach of the visa conditions such as working etc..., But the visa states it is for multiple trips of upto 3 months duration, as far as I know there is no time limit between trips. The applicant has already been accepted as a genuine visitor when the visa was granted, as long as the holder abides by the conditions then they have not breached the visa.
I may be looking at it a little simplistically, and yes Immigration reserves the right to change the status of a visa holder, but surely that cannot be done without good cause. Bit of a legal minefield if it were ever tested.
Edited by gburns57au, 2010-08-15 20:30:23.
Posted 2010-08-15 22:02:23
Although slightly off the OP's original post but in line with recent comments, I'll share our example which I hope is a good reflection on the 12/15 month visa.
A point to note here is that in each application (1x3 month, 1x12 month) I made it blatantly clear to the embassy that the applicant was my girlfriend and she was coming to visit me for the full time the visa(s) allowed. We made full use of the "15 month" visa.
I think after having stating this, if the visa is granted there can (should!) be no recourse by immigration if the applicant stays for 15 months. Our case example, this was my wife's (then g/f) timeline:
Jan 2008 - granted 12 month ME visa. Application stated clearly this was to spend time with me in Australia to see if things would work.
Mar 2008 - we both went overseas for 1 week then returned.
Jun 2008 - g/f went back to Thailand for 2 weeks by herself
Sep 2008 - we both went overseas for 1 week then returned
Dec 2008 - we both went back to Thailand, got married in her village (not legally)
Jan 2009 - we both came back to Australia (a matter of days before 12 month visa's last entry date)
---12 months passed ---
Mar 2009 - went back to Thailand, got legally married at Amphure, applied for partner visa (then I cam home), wife granted visa and returned in April on temporary resident visa.
My wife never once had a problem with immigration (well except for filling in the incoming passenger card incorectly with the first 3 month visa.....)
Tolley, yes you can enter the day before the 12 months is up, however Bridge may have a point in certain circumstances. I don't know how the embassy or immigration views "visa runs" however in our circumstance we effectively negated that by stating in the application we fully intended her to use the full length of the visa (although in hindsight immigration probably wouldn't be aware of this!).
I remember seeing a post a while ago where OP did a "visa run" to NZ and was told to not bother applying for another NZ tourist visa as it would be refused outright...
Posted 2010-08-15 22:43:03
Decision of the NZ embassy one would assume
Edited by gburns57au, 2010-08-15 22:43:24.
Posted 2010-08-16 07:47:21
Be warned just because one person does not get any hassles in departing Australia every three months does not mean this will be the case with the rest who might try the same tactic. To do this continually will eventually get looked at, as what it is plainly doing is trying to circumvent applying for a Temporary Visa.
Posted 2010-08-16 08:00:31
I'm with gburns57au on this one Bridge.
Although I realise that the visa can be cancelled, IMHO it would
be an unlikely scenerio. If, as someone pointed out a visa holder
was doing a 1 day visa run every 3 months, it may jeopardize
If someone had done for example, 4 visa runs they may be
"chatted" by DIAC at the airport and advised that they seem
to residing in OZ on a tourist visa which is not one.
Again, I think cancellation would be a stretch, especially if she
arrives at the airport with her partner who is an Australian citizen.
Having said that, stranger things have happened.