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[mark45y]

Thailand4life, on 2011-02-11 17:20:55, said:

She is taking hormones since she was 13. Now she is 22 and still taking tablets every day and getting a weekly injection from a doctor.
Her testicles were removed at the age of 14. So overall her genitalia isn't as fully developed as a normal male genitalia. It has about the size of a cigarette.
She still can get erections and even get a "wet" orgasm. It looks like a tiny drop of water when she reaches her climax.

Surely i get satisfaction when i see her erected and she reaches her climax, but it would be the same if she would have a vagina to me.
Like i said, im not attracted to other mens penises.

Soon she will undergo the final sex change operation and have a vagina. Im confident that it wont change anything in our relationship, course we simply love each other and not each others genitals.

The sex we have is pretty much the same like in a normal relationship. She is the girl, im the guy. It is not like im the bottom and she is the top or anything like that at all.
The roles are pretty clear.

I am sorry that is a totally different impression than what I thought you meant.  I really don't see any difference between your partner and a woman except an accident by god at conception.  

When I think of lady boy (and I really don't want to start an argument all over again), when I and not anyone else, just me, think of a lady boy I think of a man with a functioning penis.  I think one of the big attractions of a lady boy is having a bi threesome with only two people.  Ideal for cheap Charlie kinky bi's.  You know the best of both worlds and two for the price of one, that line you hear when walking down certain Soi's in Pattaya.

[Senia]

ok i am lazy , I did not read all sixteen pages, but coming from a woman ( if it matters )

some lady boys are truly truly beautiful , at least on the outside. makes me wonder , how a man can be more beautiful than most women ? so I can see and understand the male to male physical attraction. Some farangs don't even know that they are men.

i am all for transgender changes, because I had a friend who was really hurt when a year into their relationship she opened up to him about her past as a man and he left her . the way I see it , she was just born into the wrong body .

love is love , nothing else should matter

[Thailand4life]

Senia, on 2011-02-19 11:58:21, said:

love is love , nothing else should matter

Exactly.

[VeeKruis]

Interesting topic. I signed up at Thaivisa to browse the technical computer stuff forum and ask a few questions and then I came across this thread... I didn't look for it..^^

I'm 26 and I've always been into ladyboy and shemale porn. The very first time I saw a shemale I was a bit shocked, but found it intriguing. So ever since I was 14 I have been looking at that type of porn and the 'normal' girly porn. I absolutely shiver at the thought of being intimate with a guy. Any guy... and in fact the more queer he looks the more I feel repulsed by any thought of intimacy. I do only like girls and the appearance of a girl. As soon as a ladyboy has masculine properties I am getting a bit queasy when thinking about her/him sexually.

But when with my first girlfriend the thought of her using a strapon was a huge turn-on. With the last gf we did it all the time as she greatly enjoyed it too. Now you know the reason I like a ladyboy. Yet I never want a relationship with a ladyboy as I find it very uncomfortable and underable. I see them not as a proper girlfriend material, but only as sex toys. I can not imagine I'd fall in love with a ladyboy ever as I always judge them for pretty much everything. I want a wife with kids who I can move around with socially. I would never be able to do that with a ladyboy.

So I really don't see myself as a gay and do see why I should. You could argue I do gay things at times though;)

[richardblanc]

VeeKruis, on 2011-02-23 20:48:12, said:

Interesting topic. I signed up at Thaivisa to browse the technical computer stuff forum and ask a few questions and then I came across this thread... I didn't look for it..^^

I'm 26 and I've always been into ladyboy and shemale porn. The very first time I saw a shemale I was a bit shocked, but found it intriguing. So ever since I was 14 I have been looking at that type of porn and the 'normal' girly porn. I absolutely shiver at the thought of being intimate with a guy. Any guy... and in fact the more queer he looks the more I feel repulsed by any thought of intimacy. I do only like girls and the appearance of a girl. As soon as a ladyboy has masculine properties I am getting a bit queasy when thinking about her/him sexually.

But when with my first girlfriend the thought of her using a strapon was a huge turn-on. With the last gf we did it all the time as she greatly enjoyed it too. Now you know the reason I like a ladyboy. Yet I never want a relationship with a ladyboy as I find it very uncomfortable and underable. I see them not as a proper girlfriend material, but only as sex toys. I can not imagine I'd fall in love with a ladyboy ever as I always judge them for pretty much everything. I want a wife with kids who I can move around with socially. I would never be able to do that with a ladyboy.

So I really don't see myself as a gay and do see why I should. You could argue I do gay things at times though;)

u seem to be a honest young man
i thing u have no idea how many % of guy like to be strapped or whish to be
having sex with a ladyboy or strap on lady is almost the same thing
" I want a wife with kids who I can move around with socially"
i can understand this too, but i am your opposite about this
for the gay thing like living with a ladyboy as me
i fell so confident when i see most farang living here
trying to be real man it.s a real joke must see to appreciate
i never had any problem for this with thai man and lady
and solid farang man and lady living in thailand
all this for tell u
deal with your girlfriend as a sexual experience u like to try
it;s nothing about shitting on her likemost guy do in her back
most ladys like to use a strap on can understand and will agrea on your desire
then you will enjoy your social life and familly, and explose your sexual desire
I HOPE IT COUL WORK FOR U
ladyboy love young man and they are so hot if they like u
really

[nausea]

Well in my opinion if you're attracted to ladyboys you're gay, period, you just hav a problem accepting this aspect of your personality. Why wuld any normal guy want to be topped, it's anathema, as a male, believe me. I can screw any amount of women as a male (and have), if I revert to my female personality, I want someone who loves me, I want something special, it's a totally different ball game. The ladyboys themselves probably divide into two categories, those that are gay, and find this a very convenient way of realising their dreams, and those that feel they are female. Well, that's it really.

[garrfeild]

I have tried both, pre op and post op. The pre op did nothing for me, I was curious. But the post op, well I didn't realise he/she was a ladyboy untill about half way through the experience, Very attractive. But lets just say I began to realise he/she was not a real she. The Body is still that of a man even with the bits added and taken away.  

I would have to say that maybe a person is gay if they're with a pre op, after all you can't hide the dangly bit's all the time! Maybe making  out with a post op is easier on the mind sexuality wise. Though how many would put their hands up to being fooled by that girl who was really a guy, even if they didn't go all the way. Lets face it some are extremely attractive, you could be forgiven for being fooled.

Yes I was fooled but she was attractive, more so than a majority of women. I'm happy with my sexuality, I much prefer ladies to ladyboys. But if they are post op and beautiful enough, who knows. Just as long as the wife doesn't find out   hide the knives

[SteeleJoe]

Sorry. I haven't read the whole thread. But I'm going to jump in anyway and I apologize for any redundancy:

eurasianthai, on 2010-08-11 18:47:04, said:

Here is a picture of some of the Hua Hin ladyboys I took quite a long time ago.



And to answer you question:

If you're attracted to ladyboys because they look like beautiful women (sometimes), it is not a gay thing.
If you're attracted to ladyboys because they're ladyboys, it is a gay thing.

I think  

That's about it.

I am straight. Am I attracted to ladyboys? No. Have I ever seen a ladyboy I thought sexually attractive? A few times (over a span of 30 years). Most of them are not aesthetically pleasing to me (for example, those ladies in the picture of the show do NOT inspire any impure thoughts for me) -- even some of the prettiest ones (and to me they are very much in the minority,   are not really my type and look a bit...odd. And there's also the issue of their "typical" behavior which is often less than sexy to me (I don't mean that I necessarily have a problem with the type of behavior I am speaking of as a rule, but it is the opposite of sexually appealing to me).

If a woman looks and acts in a way that is sexually appealing to me, I'm not concerned whether she was born a biological woman or not. But 9 times out of 10, women who were not born as women don't do it for me.

So I didn't really see a good option for me on the list but I had to choose "not attracted" since I think that suggests a specific attraction to transgender.

EDIT:

The pic above is good example, maybe. The two who are well lit up are definiely NOT appealing. The one on the far left of the photo in the green top looks like she MIGHT be a bit of allright...

Edited by SteeleJoe, 2011-09-20 04:38:19.

[SteeleJoe]

mark45y, on 2010-08-13 11:39:01, said:

kpmsprtd, on 2010-08-13 11:17:49, said:

@ Marky

Quote

Lady boys whatever they think they are, are men.  There are only a  couple posting on this thread that can deal with that fact, I realize  that.  

Sorry, Marky. I feel as if I'm participating in a pile-on. In truth, I agree with you on most things, and you remain the person on this Thai Visa site with whom I would most like to have a beer. (coffee, actually, for me, but that's a quibble...)

I hear what you're saying about ladyboys thinking they are men. It's a commonly held belief. But the truth is that inside their hearts and minds (and their brains) many of them know, indisputably, that they are women. Many of them have known it since they were toddlers. In fact, there is a lot of research to back them up. It took me a while to think of the term, but search on "gender reassignment at birth" to read some horror stories. It's not an exact parallel to the concept of ladyboys, but it does clearly demonstrate that sexuality is in the brain, and not in the body parts.

I work for a lady boy.  I have for almost four years.  I know her family.  I know her husband.  

At a special family event I was asked to assume the role normally assumed by the oldest son of the family.  

I asked her why.  With tears in her eyes she said because my father is ashamed of me as his son.  

I agree with you in that sexuality is determined by the brain, but, my friend as with every other lady boy in the world who is sane knows they are men.  

I treat her as a woman 24/7 and call her housemate her husband, but I know she is a man.  She knows she is a man and her father knows she is a man.  Her husband is 100% straight but he also knows she is a man.  

I don't know if her husband thinks he is gay.  I am not that close to him.  It would be interesting to know.
  
I do know that the rest of the family thinks her husband is gay.  

I think the Thai gay community gets along better with lady boys than western gay community.  

Perhaps the gay men on this forum could share their experiences in this area.  Since I live with a woman the Thai gay community does not share their intimate thoughts with me. Although they flirt with me.  

From what I have seen especially in the Thai military there are few problems with lady boys.

I may be confused (I'm ill, I've been up most of the night and I've read too dam_n much of this thread -- and still haven't finished) but:
\Wasn't it you position that men who have sex with LBs are gay?

If so:

She knows she is a man and her father knows she is a man.  Her husband is 100% straight but he also knows she is a man.


How does that work? (I won't bother arguing with what a "man" is or whether "she" knows she's a man.)

Also: I ws personally thinking of post-op transgender when I posted earlier but recognize that this thread isn't specificaly about that. You however seem to focus entirely on pre-op and the presence of male genitalia. Is a man who has sex with a post op LB gay? Is a post op LB a man?

And: you're apparent belief that a person's presence on this thread (or this forum) is an indication of their sexuality is bollocks.

[JimmyTheMook]

VeeKruis, on 2011-02-23 20:48:12, said:

But when with my first girlfriend the thought of her using a strapon was a huge turn-on. With the last gf we did it all the time as she greatly enjoyed it too. Now you know the reason I like a ladyboy.

So I really don't see myself as a gay and do see why I should. You could argue I do gay things at times though

Ya mean like riding the strap on ?  

[hughben]

JimmyTheMook, on 2011-09-20 06:43:21, said:

VeeKruis, on 2011-02-23 20:48:12, said:

But when with my first girlfriend the thought of her using a strapon was a huge turn-on. With the last gf we did it all the time as she greatly enjoyed it too. Now you know the reason I like a ladyboy.

So I really don't see myself as a gay and do see why I should. You could argue I do gay things at times though

Ya mean like riding the strap on ?  

So using the same rationale, lesbians who ride strap-ons are straight?

[jambco984]

I'm a "straight" man and have been known to have a bit of slap and tickle with the unknown beauties.
My friends at home think its awful, the shock and disgust in the bar before i moved here WOW.
A few of the shocked members of the bar jury have since been here and fallen in love with above mentioned beauties and even been to heaven and back with some of them all in the space of 2 hours naturally.

All happily married and the branding of "STRAIGHT MEN" is there again????

Who knows?
If you like it you like it

and most importantly

DONT KNOCK IT UNTIL YOUVE TRIED IT..........

or

UPTO YOU as we are all so familiar with

As said before think with your heads, the one above your adams apple    

[ThePedroDB]

I found this thread by accident and read the first 8 pages before deciding that I simply had enough of reading and wanted to respond.  I'm delighted to see that there are recent posts and that the thread is still active.

I've lived in Thailand for over 4 years now and (since I came here, at least) always had a thing for LBs.  Nothing to do with an adolescence full of LB porn, I hasten to add - that has become a more recent vice.  Maybe it was a reaction to an unpleasant divorce.  Maybe it was the idea of "no unwanted pregnancies" or "kiddie traps".  I can't really say what kicked it all off - but here I am.  

My first relationship here was with a post-op LB.  I knew she was an LB but had no idea - nor didn't care - about her genital configuration until the first night in the sack.  Since then I've had a few wild periods and sampled a variety of different configurations of LBs.  To me it was all part of living in the 'sweetie shop' that is Thailand.  There are lots of different flavours and you should sample as wide a variety as you see fit.  You only live once etc.  

That probably labels me (at least) as 'experimental'.   However, I've never been 'topped' and have no attraction to men (at least those that look like men).  I have no problem (read that as 'totally enjoy') performing oral sex on a pre-op LB.  I am not attracted to all LBs - there are stunners and there are the rest.  Say no more.

For the record, I voted "I'm Straight and I like LBs".  I love Genetic females and LBs.  Am I Bisexual?  I wondered about that but a M-F-M three-some with another guy (straight or otherwise) wouldn't be my thing either.  So, perhaps I'm selectively bisexual or something...

One thing.  I have highly attuned "Katoeydar" - or 'LB detectors' as I've often described it to friends.  I've always known the object of my desire was an LB and have actively sought them out.  To me Thai LBs can be as sexy as hell (the stunners are, at least) - more so than 98% of Thai genetic females in fact.  Many have a specific 'look' which just does it for me.  Put simply, I just don't feel the need to fight it any more.  Whatever my sexuality is, I'm comfortable with it.

I've been living happily with my current g/f for 3 years.  She's a post-op LB and has considered herself female from her earliest memory.  Due to her 'full conversion' she considers herself "sao brapait sawng" - female of the second kind.  IMO the Third Gender tag seems to encapsulate all those who live their lives as Women (and by that I mean dress and, for the most part, behave as female). It may be a bit of LB snobbery but the Katoey label seems to be more attributed to those LBs with 'tackle'.  

A view I have commonly come across (many times) regarding gays not liking LBs and vice-versa is simply that they are in competition with each other for men.  Whilst I can understand this in the world of 'commercial relationships', I couldn't say I agree with this in all circumstances.

I've long since given up analysing the whole thing and just started being happy with who I am, what I'm doing and who I'm with.  Yes, I had some raised eyebrows from folks at home when they found out about my current squeeze but that was all. Many have since met her and think she's an angel (She is!).

A final thought, I have known a number of LB friends who have 'tackle' but it is non-functioning as a result of the vast quantities of female hormones they consumed.  Similarly, these 'ladies' abhor their male genitalia and don't want it to be part of them at all.  As a result, they certainly wouldn't want anyone touching or doing anything else with it.  See what I mean about many different flavours...??

Thanks for a very entertaining thread.  I'll keep a more frequent eye on this from now on.

Rgds

P

Edited by ThePedroDB, 2011-10-02 18:40:13.

[Ijustwannateach]

^I don't really have a horse in the 'what does it mean when straight-identified men like ladyboys' race, but I would like to point out (again and again) that gay men are almost never in competition with ladyboys for men.

Ladyboys consider themselves female; ergo, they want 'straight'(-identified) men, though it seems sometimes that attention from almost anyone plausibly male will do.  Most gay men want other gay men.  There may be some overlap, but them's the rules, mostly.

What I object about to an overabundance of ladyboys in gay company is the overly flamboyant and attention-seeking behaviour, which tends towards the petulant and annoying when it is made abundantly clear that most/all of the gay men present are simply... not... interested... something which seems to be very hard for both ladyboys and straight-identified men posting on forums to grasp.

If there is a standard acceptable term for straight-identified-men-who-like-ladyboys, I'd sure like to know it- if there isn't, will you guys please come up with one for yourselves so that you can be separately identified from actual gay men?  It would make it soooooo much less irritating to have threads like this in an otherwise gay subforum.

[ThePedroDB]

@ijustwannateach, interesting response and, I must say, not quite what I had expected from my post - but thought provoking nonetheless!  To pick up on a few of your comments:

"I would like to point out (again and again) that gay men are almost never in competition with ladyboys for men"

From the perspective of a gay man that may be true but I was putting forward the LB view in a 'commercial environment'.  I'm not making this up.  That's their view - many have told me so. Let's face it, business is business and both groups are vying for any male who may be interested - however repressed or slight their gay tendencies may be!

"Ladyboys consider themselves female; ergo, they want 'straight'(-identified) men, though it seems sometimes that attention from almost anyone plausibly male will do.  Most gay men want other gay men.  There may be some overlap, but them's the rules, mostly."

I can partially agree here but at what point does a gay man decide that another male is not a possible willing partner?.  On my travels I have (literally) ended up in a gay bar by accident - thanks very much Fodors guide for not mentioning it.  Although, my travelling companion and I rapidly understood the inference of the bars name - "QTs" should have given us a clue.  

Needless to say, a great night was had all round but I did start to get a bit peeved that the clientelle didn't seem to want to take "No Thanks" for an answer.  Slightly predatory is how I would kindly describe their behaviour.  Maybe there's a notion that 'converting a straight guy' is something to be persued? - I don't know and I don't really care.  I'm certainly not saying all gay men behave in this fashion and only have my own personal experience to draw upon.  Regardless, perhaps that indicates how 'competitive' a truly 'commercial environment' here in Thailand could be...

"...is the overly flamboyant and attention-seeking behaviour, which tends towards the petulant and annoying"

Amen to that.  Nothing worse that a group of cackling (I hate that over the top laughter or screeching they sometimes do!) LB drama queens.  Needless to say, I truly hate those kinds of environments too and my g/f certainly doesn't fall into that category.

"...please come up with one for yourselves so that you can be separately identified from actual gay men?"

Why should we?  Like I said, from my point of view I couldn't care less about labels, nor how the rest of the world cares to try and 'pigeon hole' me.  Live and let live and all that.  The only reason I responded at all was that the original poster asked a question which I have had many hours of mulling over and discussions with friends about in the past.  All in all it's been a lively and fun read, so thanks to all who have contributed - regardless of their sexual preferences - thus far.

"It would make it soooooo much less irritating to have threads like this in an otherwise gay subforum"

I have to say that sounds remarkably 'straight intolerant'. Just because it's a gay subforum, why should others be excluded from it?  Have you no interest in others or their opinions?  It's simple, if this thread bothers you - Don't Read It!  Furthermore, despite being a moderator, I don't think you own this forum and nor did you start this thread.  IMHO it might be better for you to tone it down a little or some of us may think you ain't teaching but preaching!


Best Rgds

P

Edited by ThePedroDB, 2011-10-03 13:15:56.

[Ijustwannateach]

^All points well taken, actually- and nice to see you making them so sensibly.

I wasn't being all that serious- posting as a member more than a mod.  Having a whinge, really- and this isn't even the gay subforum anymore, now we're...

'LGBT'....

ah, that rolls off the tongue lightly...



But I do think that you guys have a differentiation problem- and your issues aren't exactly the same as 'straight'forward (urk) gay ones, especially given that in a certain sense, neither partner in the relationship is gay-identified.  Chances are some of you will find it easier to do the whole marriage thing (if you want) than gays in most countries for a long time!

[ThePedroDB]

@ijustwannateach I'm delighted that no offence was taken by my earlier post.  None was intended.

A final quick point (as I'm rushing out to dinner now).  The marriage thing is a BIG problem for folk with LB partners - unless the LB in question has managed to change the gender on their ID (which of course is still impossible here in Thailand).  

My g/f and I do want to marry and have looked into it, even considering leaving the country and getting a civil partnership agreement (or whatever it's called in the UK) but I'm still not convinced that would assist me in attaining a Thai Visa for the coming years.  AFAIK, Thailand refuses to acknowledge same sex marriages - not sure if  that means they will accept a marriage certificate from another  country.  Please advise if you know more on this front.

Hey, Ho - we continue...

Hava Gr8 Day!!

P

[CoconutMayhem]

I think interest in ladyboys is intentional, but who cares? Is being sexually turned on by a ladyboy's genitals any more perverse than being attracted to a lady's genitals? You like what you like, so F* it and be human.

Edited by CoconutMayhem, 2011-12-11 21:14:55.

[gbswales]

I think more people are bisexual but lean towards one sex or the other. Feminine charm breasts and a male member seem a reasonable idea if you lime the person. I have been in a straight marriage and now in a gay marriage for the past two years. If my current partner had been a ladyboy it eodnt make a difference to me because I love him

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