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#26
eurasianthai
Senior Member Posted 2010-08-11 23:07:10
BTW, not an expert but I don't think your picture of Roman sexuality is exactly right either. Not sure what you mean. Roman men had sex with women and men. Probably more with men when they were young. And probably more with women when they were getting older. But overall, they were quite open minded... 
#27
animatic
Observant member Posted 2010-08-11 23:10:02
It used to be of concern to me that I found them attractive. I'm straight, but sexy is sexy. End of Story. I doubt many straight guys could look at the above picture and not have impure thoughts. Reminds me of a very old TV ad in the UK for a body spray. " Men just can't help acting on impulse"      Heres a pic of a freind I've known sometime now, I've been out with many times and some guy's indeed have impure thoughts and even sometimes get quite a shock when finding out that Dow no longer has a *****. And to quote Bif "Post-op, I don't know, the situation has never arisen....I think...or has it?....hmmm  anyway,if you can't tell, who cares? "I have a friend who has lived with a katoey for most of 2 years, He never thought for a minute he would ever bed a man and doesn't want to. His girlfriend is very cute, feminine, well spoken and passes without problem. And whom I like as a person. It was simply a case of being attracted to one individual in looks and personality, and then making an adjustment to something unexpected, and throwing past cultural baggage aside. I have dated ladies with extremely large clitorises, that never made me think I was partly one way or another because of this, but I have heard some macho types that have dumped fine ladies for JUST this, it threatened their "sense of manhood." nonsensical, but 'cultural baggage'. I suspect some use katoeys as a transition to fuller acceptance of their urges. And I think many are basically Bi with a preference for women, but taking 'moments of opportunity' as they come. As has been said, being Bi means you have twice as many chances for a date on Saturday night. Others observably because they find men too rough, or don't like the fey side of overly feminine men, but don't mind that if they LOOK like ladies, and not flaming queens... so to speak. And there are not doubt the pure experimenters, who had just enough loosening juice at the bar to just 'ah what the hel_l, won't kill me', and tomorrow is another day. Jing, I'm interested to see how this all votes out in the longer run. #28
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2010-08-11 23:13:51
BTW, not an expert but I don't think your picture of Roman sexuality is exactly right either. Not sure what you mean. Roman men had sex with women and men. Probably more with men when they were young. And probably more with women when they were getting older. But overall, they were quite open minded... #29
mark45y
Mr. Whippersnapper Posted 2010-08-11 23:17:53
I think you have to ask why is it that most men interested in lady boys are not interested in post op lady boys. Pulling a number out of a hat I would say 90%. I went to a couple of forums where they discuss this subject.
You know what they discuss on Lady boy forums? Homosexual sex techniques. I could be a lot more descriptive here but I’ll leave it at that. So men who are gay are not attracted to lady boys? If a guy likes homosexual sex is he gay? Well, yes. I think I am superman but that doesn’t mean I can fly. Perhaps what a man thinks he is not really relevant to what he is. Since the vast majority of men who identify as gay are interested in men and don’t like lady boys what does that tell us? Nothing about homosexuality really. It tells us that a man has a preference for a masculine man, that’s all. Some gay guys like feminine men. That means they like feminine men. If you ask a feminine man to put on panties and stockings and heels, will he? I think what we have is an issue of what kind of men do homosexuals like. Some like masculine guys some like feminine guys and some like really feminine guys. I am defining homosexuality as a choice in having sex with a person with the same equipment as they have. I think some gay guys discriminate against men who like lady boys as a masculine issue rather than a homosexual issue although that might not be a conscious thought. I think some guys who do like lady boys do not consider themselves gay because that is a masculine and cultural issue. Bi guys I don’t think have a dog in the hunt because they don’t care. Any port/orifice in a storm as a sailor would say. Some men are so heavily into gay or straight culture that they could never see the similarities or differences of the issue. For me it is simple. If you like a person sexually with a penis you are a homosexual or at least bisexual. Go to a lady boy bar, see if the straight guys there want the lady boys to keep their knickers on when they dance. Why pray tell if they are not gay would they want to see a man dancing nud_e? #30
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2010-08-11 23:18:40
Reminded of a line from an old Cheech & Chong bit. Can't remember which, but I think he's in front of the judge on a charge of rape. "How do you plead?" "I plead insanity. I'm just crazy about that stuff..." Beautiful is beautiful. OTOH, not all ladyboys are such. Walking down Sukhumvit and seeing a ladyboy over six feet tall, tattooed biceps, leering at me from that manly face... That's a bit far from beautiful. What percentage of ladyboys are so for economic reasons (and not because of their "inner she"), I wonder... #31
eurasianthai
Senior Member Posted 2010-08-11 23:23:22
Jingthing, you're joking, right? I learned latin and the Roman Empire history for more years that I care to remember...
Edited by eurasianthai, 2010-08-11 23:24:29. #32
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2010-08-11 23:27:11
For me it is simple. If you like a person sexually with a penis you are a homosexual or at least bisexual. Imagine this. A straight man meets a lovely LB, pre-op. He falls in love. They have wonderful sex for two years. The LB chops it off and installs a vagina. They continue to have wonderful sex and live happily ever after. The entire time the man always felt straight. And you are imposing what label on him now? Gay before the chop, now straight? That's silly to do if he always felt it was a heterosexual attraction. Remember straights can and do have anal sex too. Studies show most LB lovers IDENTIFY as hetero. I think that should be respected. Edited by Jingthing, 2010-08-11 23:27:48. #33
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2010-08-11 23:29:05
Jingthing, you're joking, right? I learned latin and the Roman Empire history for more years that I care to remember... Edited by Jingthing, 2010-08-11 23:31:56. #34
eurasianthai
Senior Member Posted 2010-08-11 23:36:00
They actually did not, as far as sex was concerned anyway.
The specific cultural standards started a bit later, with religions getting more "powerful". But it is a different subject... #35
mark45y
Mr. Whippersnapper Posted 2010-08-11 23:46:21
For me it is simple. If you like a person sexually with a penis you are a homosexual or at least bisexual. Imagine this. A straight man meets a lovely LB, pre-op. He falls in love. They have wonderful sex for two years. The LB chops it off and installs a vagina. They continue to have wonderful sex and live happily ever after. The entire time the man always felt straight. And you are imposing what label on him now? Gay before the chop, now straight? That's silly to do if he always felt it was a heterosexual attraction. Remember straights can and do have anal sex too. Studies show most LB lovers IDENTIFY as hetero. I think that should be respected. So here is why I think you are wrong. The great majority of lady boys don’t have a sex change operation. The great majority of lady boys who work in the trade don’t have a sex change operation because their customers don’t want them to have a sex change operation. You are talking about the exceptions to the rule rather than the rule. You are talking about people who fall in love with another person and sexual orientation has nothing to do with that kind of pure love. If rabbits could talk they might fall in love with a rabbit. Go to any lady boy hang out and ask how many post ops are there. You won’t get more than one out of ten. I would even go so far as to say post ops are not lady boys anymore. They belong in a special category because there are so few of them when compared to the total lady boy population. BTW one does not meet a lady boy by accident. That is like catching a disease from a toilet seat. Possible, yes but highly unlikely. A guy meets a lady boy because he likes feminine men. The key word here is men. #36
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2010-08-12 00:42:00
Agree to disagree, as you clearly obsessed with the penis part of it. Cheers.
#37
JohnLeech
Senior Member Posted 2010-08-12 00:53:30
They actually did not, as far as sex was concerned anyway. The specific cultural standards started a bit later, with religions getting more "powerful". But it is a different subject... 100% correct - "later" being around 340 AD, with the first Christian emperors ( ConstantiusII and Constans). #38
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2010-08-12 01:30:56
They actually did not, as far as sex was concerned anyway. The specific cultural standards started a bit later, with religions getting more "powerful". But it is a different subject... http://uktv.co.uk/ye...step/aid/588663 Quote Homosexuality Males in ancient Rome had to be dominant, whether they were in relations with a female or another male. The man had to be in control, while the 'female' submissive, and so despite male same-sex relationships being rife in the ancient world, the penetrated male was seen as the female or slave, i.e. weak and subservient. Despite laws (such as the Lex Iulia and Lex Scantinia) banning same-sex relations with those who were freeborn, they were often ignored, and only the passive were occasionally punished. Slaves, however, were not covered by these laws, and were used in whatever way the dominant male wished. Same sex-relations were also common with almost all the emperors; Nero being the first to marry another male. Despite this male homosexual tolerance, lesbianism was not accepted. #39
JohnLeech
Senior Member Posted 2010-08-12 01:34:52
A guy meets a lady boy because he likes feminine men. The key word here is men. I've got to agree with pretty well everything you've said here, as it is so simple if you are limited to the basic straight / gay / bi as this thread is - and there is little point in listing every sexual pigeon hole from A to Z (asexual to zoophilia!). Have penis = male. This is not debatable (unless you happen to be a South African athlete) - either you are male or you aren't, unless you have full gender reassignment surgery in which case it then becomes debatable. End of story. Attracted to male = gay. Regardless of whether it is "butch" male, fem, long hair, short hair, top, bottom, versatile or any other style (bear, twink, etc, etc), male is male and if you are attracted to anyone else who is male you are gay (or bi, if you are also attracted to women). End of story. The idea that people are what they imagine they are is often amusing, but equally often delusional - look around any Pattaya gay bar or Dongtan beach and you will see a large number of unattractive men who are past their prime (I don't think too many details are necessary). Is that how they see themselves,however, or who they "identify" with? Not if the ridiculous antics and even more ridiculous attire is anything to go by. Similarly, look at those who "identify" with the CIA, KGB, Spetsnaz, MI5 or (dare I say it) the Pattaya SWAT teams - why should any of their delusions (which are more often than not about being more "manly" or "macho" or, as they imagine, "hetero") be "respected"? Quite simply, people are what they are. Whether they like it and accept it is a different matter. #40
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2010-08-12 01:45:40
I am happy to see a lively discussion here on the gay forum about this topic including not only gay people. I had considered originally doing this poll in the general forum but thought that had a greater chance of catching flak, but on reflection, that's where it really belonged.
Edited by Jingthing, 2010-08-12 01:46:15. #41
MB1
Senior Member Posted 2010-08-12 02:19:49
She looks to have some real "F.H." potential. Sorry, I shouldn't have (but I did). No problems, heres another one of same person with a freind of mine outside Dave Man Club, his names Dave by the way which was the reason I took the picture, now which ones Dave.. I wonder also how many times the Photo will get downloaded this time...  Well over a hundred downloads last time I posted it, come on guy's own up if it was you..
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Edited by MB1, 2010-08-12 02:26:21. #42
lannarebirth
Star Member Posted 2010-08-12 02:40:59
She looks to have some real "F.H." potential. Sorry, I shouldn't have (but I did). F. H. ? What's that? I read Armistead Maupin 25 or 30 years ago and he introduced me to the term "fag hag". Is that it? #43
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2010-08-12 02:54:45
She looks to have some real "F.H." potential. Sorry, I shouldn't have (but I did). F. H. ? What's that? I read Armistead Maupin 25 or 30 years ago and he introduced me to the term "fag hag". Is that it? #44
meelousee
Senior Member Posted 2010-08-12 06:37:34
Very interesting poll results
#45
chaihot
Advanced Member Posted 2010-08-12 09:00:34
Studies show most LB lovers IDENTIFY as hetero. I think that should be respected. Let me throw one more wrench into your toolkit. In Pattaya, if you really want to be surprised, ask the better looking ladyboys if they are a "top" or "bottom". The answer might surprise you as many are "tops". Just ask on Walking Street, or have your lady ask if you are shy. Now that confuses the issue even more ... 
Attached Files
#46
kpmsprtd
Senior Member Posted 2010-08-12 10:15:45
The simplest way to look at this is to maintain that any male attracted to ladyboys is gay.
But what if, rather than being attracted to men, it is the idea of being the woman that the occasional fan of ladyboys finds attractive. Further, what if this occasional fan of ladyboys also enjoys playing the role of the woman with actual women--perhaps even more so than he enjoys being a woman with a ladyboy. Then we are left with a man who sometimes likes to pretend to be a woman, usually with women but sometimes with ladyboys. I don't see how that makes such a man gay. It might make him a partial ladyboy / transvestite, I guess. Add to all this that our hypothetical man feels zero physical attraction to men, be they masculine or feminine. He does, however, feel significant physical attraction for most women. Simply saying that any male attracted to ladyboys is gay seems to me an erroneous over-simplification. There are numerous alternate explanations. #47
mark45y
Mr. Whippersnapper Posted 2010-08-12 10:30:26
I am happy to see a lively discussion here on the gay forum about this topic including not only gay people. I had considered originally doing this poll in the general forum but thought that had a greater chance of catching flak, but on reflection, that's where it really belonged. No, I don’t think so. Unless you think a bottom guy is still straight? I know I have a penis obsession but tell me, do you think a bottom male could be straight? Do you think a male who gives BBBJ could be straight? I took the below information from an up to date, like yesterday, Lady Boy Pattaya forum. Here are the result of a few of polls. Have you ever bottomed for a lady boy? Yes (221 votes [40.55%]) Percentage of vote: 40.55% Another poll Do you want to bottom for a lady boy? Yes (349 votes [63.57%]) May be/ Not Sure (97 votes [17.67%]) Percentage of vote: 17.67% Another poll Do you BBBJ a lady boy? No (86 votes [7.30%]) Just to summarize, is it possible for a male bottom to be straight and does a straight guy give BBBJ’s to men? #48
mark45y
Mr. Whippersnapper Posted 2010-08-12 10:38:10
The simplest way to look at this is to maintain that any male attracted to ladyboys is gay. But what if, rather than being attracted to men, it is the idea of being the woman that the occasional fan of ladyboys finds attractive. Further, what if this occasional fan of ladyboys also enjoys playing the role of the woman with actual women--perhaps even more so than he enjoys being a woman with a ladyboy. Then we are left with a man who sometimes likes to pretend to be a woman, usually with women but sometimes with ladyboys. I don't see how that makes such a man gay. It might make him a partial ladyboy / transvestite, I guess. Add to all this that our hypothetical man feels zero physical attraction to men, be they masculine or feminine. He does, however, feel significant physical attraction for most women. Simply saying that any male attracted to ladyboys is gay seems to me an erroneous over-simplification. There are numerous alternate explanations. Again I think it may be necessary to ask what a man thinks he is and what he is may be two different things. Male ejaculate is not available from women. Does a man who likes the above really not like men? Is what you are saying, I like a guy to CI(my)M or bottom but I am not attracted to men. I think that is a bit of a stretch. #49
canuckamuck
A real member's member Posted 2010-08-12 10:47:31
I hate to agree with Mark, but there you go.
#50
sarahsbloke
Platinum Member Posted 2010-08-12 11:15:20
I have to agree with Marky
I believe most LBs retain working equipment and use it on their bfs. (post ops are fairly rare in the LB community) That's the whole point of having a LB, if they didn't you might as well have a woman! |
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