The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.
If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.
Where did you read 'supporting army violence' in the quotes post ? It is indeed an ungrateful task to point out uncomfortable home truths which do not fit in a prejudiced mindset.
Oh wow, what intellectual power and devastating repartee.
When you have some decent points to make - instead of parroting my posts in a mindless schoolyard manner - let's hear them.In the mean time as Mr Attlee once said to one of his irritatingly voluble colleagues, "a period of silence on your part would be most welcome"
Silence, now we can't have that. I agree, the second sentence may have been a bit overdone, but the first (a question) still stands unanswered. Unless your 'decent point .. let's hear them' is your answer. May I remind you answering a question with another question is not really polite. Awaiting your reply .. in silence
The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.
If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.
Where did you read 'supporting army violence' in the quotes post ? It is indeed an ungrateful task to point out uncomfortable home truths which do not fit in a prejudiced mindset.
Silence, now we can't have that. I agree, the second sentence may have been a bit overdone, but the first (a question) still stands unanswered. Unless your 'decent point .. let's hear them' is your answer. May I remind you answering a question with another question is not really polite. Awaiting your reply .. in silence
Rubl, being a red and yellow supporter helps to see you all are saying. Hyper said 'I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.'
true this aint exactly quoting 'supporting army violence' as Jayboy stated but sure is same/same sentiment, duh.
Would 'condoning the military tactics, which was deadly' (Hyper "90 deaths") be closer to agreement?
or maybe you describe what hyper meant? he didn't support the military ...fill in blank........ (ya think?)
OR maybe he does!? who knows
Rubl, being a red and yellow supporter helps to see you all are saying. Hyper said 'I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.'
true this aint exactly quoting 'supporting army violence' as Jayboy stated but sure is same/same sentiment, duh.
Would 'condoning the military tactics, which was deadly' (Hyper "90 deaths") be closer to agreement?
or maybe you describe what hyper meant? he didn't support the military ...fill in blank........ (ya think?)
OR maybe he does!? who knows
Mainly I objected to the 'supporting army violence' remark, maybe only 'army violence'. It started to get out of context. I assume anyone dislikes army violence. At certain times they're just there to prevent violence, and violence against them will be met likewise.
I'm neither a red, nor a yellow shirt supporter. I'm going for the open-minded type.
Wonder how many were really red shirt supporters and not 'Just there for the concert' ?
As long as they are listening to music and clacking their clappers rather than bombing and torching, no worries ...
I agree whit you Jingthing, I was there and belive me i listen the real sad people shout when they see the video whit the soldier shooting and the PM and Suthep talk in some in the video.
Was only for people whit PASS and they was a lot, more that the last time in pattaya.
Wonder how many were really red shirt supporters and not 'Just there for the concert' ?
What a stupid question...
Do you believe many thousands of people wearing a red shirt and going to a concert organized by redshirts and performed by redshirts are not redshirts?
The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.
Here a photo of yesterday's concert in Pattaya.
there where deadly weapons on both sides and both sides where using them, maybe we can add you to the stupid corner also
Very silly question. They were all wearing their red shirt, very happy jumping and clapping when Thaksin phoned in. Tell me, isn't that enough clue to show they were all red? Moreover no yellow shirt or pro-government supporter would join a red activity, be it rally or concert...with the numbers of supporters yesterday at pattaya they are guaranteed winners of next general election...they are indeed the majority of Thailand...
They have started non-violent, hope the government doesn't turn violent on them
[/quote]
LOL, so let me get this right, you think that all reds attending where from pattaya or surrounding area, I don't think so, bus loads came from all over so hardly a true representation of anything
Thaksin is phoning in now because he's worried.
The bleeding of MPs to Pumjaithai, the poor council elections in Bangkok, the dissatisfaction with Payap as leader of the Issan faction where funds failed to reach the destinations,ie MPs, have all weakened Pheua Thai.
And Thaksin knows another violent red protest is the kiss of death for him and his cohorts.
So Yongyut was ordered to propose the 5 point reconcilation plan, a red herring, to make the red shirts\Pheua Thai look conciliatory.
Tomorrow, Pojaman, his so called divorced wife who is supposed to be not interested in politics,will join a meeting of Pheua Thai MPs.
Somchai Wongsawat has already guaranteed continued funds to the MPs.
The Shinawat seniors are back in charge of Pheua Thai with their wallets ready.
Forget any nonsense about it being a party of the people, the elite are back to protect their interests!
The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.
Another bullshitting pro-red propagandist. That 90-odd figure you are quick to throw around INCLUDES murdered army personnel.
Easy boy.It is a matter of record that many unarmed civilians were shot by the army.The question is how many.However in the tradition of the Thai military covering up their crimes unfortunately it seems unlikely there will ever be a credible or thorough investigation.
You can call it bullshitting red propaganda if you like but most reasonable people would just like a proper enquiry.
The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.
Here are excerpts of the UDD's terrorism speeches:
How can anyone in their right mind support these terrorists? jayboy? TallForeigner? tonywebster?
Indeed,If the Sub Titles are a true translation of the Pattaya phone in speech then:
Clearly incitement of the Red shirt mob to commit further acts of Terrorism as performed by them in Bangkok.
How can this man believe his own lies?that he has not been involved in Terrorism,whilst paying for Rent a Mob Red Shirts and PR liars,and Ochestrating Terrorism,Anarchy,Bloodshed,by the Reds, with the apparent,ultimate aim of the Destruction of Thailand.
The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.
If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.
Posted this before but didn't get a response from you, so here it goes again:
Quote
Given the numerous amounts of proven propaganda distributed by the red shirts over this period attempting to paint the army negatively - the images taken from a video of the soldiers shot in the south and placed onto a poster stating this is what happens when soldiers refuse to deal with red shirts, the photoshopped photos of the slain protesters, and not to mention the many images of the so called MiB and Chavalit's men armed and wearing army fatigues on a skytrain station - it's the red shirts with a real credibility crisis and the reason many people are taking their claims about the army shooting journalists and nurses with a very large dose of salt.
The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.
If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this,
Yet you support the "vicious, unfeeling and unthinking" violence of the UDD that was publicly announced beforehand and then later put into action? If there was no violence from the UDD then there would have been no deaths, as the army would have stuck with non-lethal means of dispersal. The UDD brought the deaths upon themselves and then repeatedly use the deaths as a propaganda tool.
That's a tired and discredited point that apologists for the crimes of the military often trot out.Absurdly,if taken literally, it means that the many civilians murdered by the military somehow got caught in the crossfire as snipers aimed at the militants.What laughable rubbish.
What's more laughable are your feeble attempts as a red propagandist. Any objective observer of the events during the Tai Rouge occupation of Bangkok know that that is exactly what happened.
At any rate, whether you recognise that the unarmed deaths were collateral rather than intentional, the poster has a point about the choices the UDD members made. The occupation was illegal and its leaders promoted violence daily on the stage. That is a matter of abundant public record, so you're calling that appraisal 'rubbsih' won't fly. The physical, social and economic damage the UDD caused amounts to terrorism under their cheerless leader's own definitions as approved by an elected parliament. The government showed admirable restraint in enforcing the law.
One wonders whether someone like this has any limit on the amount of bloodshed he is happy to endorse.Clearly this fellow, to the extent he expresses himself coherently, is at the reactionary end of the spectrum.Even government spokesmen pay lip service to the concept of a rigorous inquiry - not that they are really prepared to commit to one.Historically the Thai army has always covered up its crimes and avoided accountability.Actually in this case I think the army acted reasonably professionally but there's still a need for a proper inquiry
You are on and on about a rigorous inquiry. What good is that going to do we all know that the red shirts tried to burn down Bangkok they tried through violence to get the legal government to resign. They refused to negotiate. They invaded a hospital. Are you absolutely sure you want to know the whole story. Remember they started the lethal violence on April 10 the rest was just a natural result of there reactions. When the inquiry is over and the red shirts are shown for what they are will you go on a crusade to get them to pay the wages for all the people they put out of work will you try to get them to pay for the rebuilding of the damage caused by there arson. When will you red shirts learn you have rights but the right to hold a nation up for your own personnel gain is not one of them and will be stopped by all the legal means at the governments hands.
Or am I reading you wrong and what you want is a rigorous investigation of the people who financed this act of terrorism. If so my apologies but I think that is a investigation you would rather not have.
Have you ever sent an email to a company and gotten a reply back in seconds, that they have received your letter and its important to them, and then in 2 days an email from them with a totally out to lunch response, based on a few words in your email??? Its from a computer, think some of are falling for one now.
Thaksin is phoning in now because he's worried.
The bleeding of MPs to Pumjaithai, the poor council elections in Bangkok, the dissatisfaction with Payap as leader of the Issan faction where funds failed to reach the destinations,ie MPs, have all weakened Pheua Thai.
And Thaksin knows another violent red protest is the kiss of death for him and his cohorts.
So Yongyut was ordered to propose the 5 point reconcilation plan, a red herring, to make the red shirts\Pheua Thai look conciliatory.
Tomorrow, Pojaman, his so called divorced wife who is supposed to be not interested in politics,will join a meeting of Pheua Thai MPs.
Somchai Wongsawat has already guaranteed continued funds to the MPs.
The Shinawat seniors are back in charge of Pheua Thai with their wallets ready. Forget any nonsense about it being a party of the people, the elite are back to protect their interests!
This last line says it all.
The elite of the PTP,who accuse the "elite yellow shirts" of holding on to power, are struggling in a last ditch attempt to get their collective snouts back in the trough.
Nothing to do with "Twoo democwacy" as spouted by their evil leader.
Thaksin is phoning in now because he's worried.
The bleeding of MPs to Pumjaithai, the poor council elections in Bangkok, the dissatisfaction with Payap as leader of the Issan faction where funds failed to reach the destinations,ie MPs, have all weakened Pheua Thai.
And Thaksin knows another violent red protest is the kiss of death for him and his cohorts.
So Yongyut was ordered to propose the 5 point reconcilation plan, a red herring, to make the red shirts\Pheua Thai look conciliatory.
Tomorrow, Pojaman, his so called divorced wife who is supposed to be not interested in politics,will join a meeting of Pheua Thai MPs.
Somchai Wongsawat has already guaranteed continued funds to the MPs.
The Shinawat seniors are back in charge of Pheua Thai with their wallets ready. Forget any nonsense about it being a party of the people, the elite are back to protect their interests!
This last line says it all.
The elite of the PTP,who accuse the "elite yellow shirts" of holding on to power, are struggling in a last ditch attempt to get their collective snouts back in the trough.
Nothing to do with "Twoo democwacy" as spouted by their evil leader.
For sure. What is amazing is how many farangs get caught up in this red propaganda...hook, line and sinker...
But to be fair, both sides are trying to keep their snouths in the trough! No different where I come from...
The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.
If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.
Posted this before but didn't get a response from you, so here it goes again:
Quote
Given the numerous amounts of proven propaganda distributed by the red shirts over this period attempting to paint the army negatively - the images taken from a video of the soldiers shot in the south and placed onto a poster stating this is what happens when soldiers refuse to deal with red shirts, the photoshopped photos of the slain protesters, and not to mention the many images of the so called MiB and Chavalit's men armed and wearing army fatigues on a skytrain station - it's the red shirts with a real credibility crisis and the reason many people are taking their claims about the army shooting journalists and nurses with a very large dose of salt.
I did see your rather commonplace response and with respect it just seemed a reworking of the simple minded bar room talk we've heard from you previously.Anyway since you insist:
It's not a matter of Red propaganda (nor for that matter Government propaganda).It's a matter of having a proper transparent and rigorous investigation.However for those like yourself who have mysteriously (and to be frank impossibly) already access to all relevant information and closed already made up minds, I can see why there might be some resistance.A cynic however who understands the record of the Thai military might say the reluctance of some to see a proper investigation simply anticipates an inquiry uncovering repetition of past behaviour. I am genuinely open minded and as previously noted have the impression the security forces acted reasonably and professionally in the circumstances.My wish is to to seek the truth so far as that's possible, and let the cards fall where they may.
Do I have any confidence this will happen? Not really.
Were they being paid to attend?
Imagine that, concerts where they pay YOU to be there. I've paid to be at a few concerts where I felt them paying me would be more appropriate.
The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.
If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.
Where did you read 'supporting army violence' in the quotes post ? It is indeed an ungrateful task to point out uncomfortable home truths which do not fit in a prejudiced mindset.
Oh wow, what intellectual power and devastating repartee.
When you have some decent points to make - instead of parroting my posts in a mindless schoolyard manner - let's hear them.In the mean time as Mr Attlee once said to one of his irritatingly voluble colleagues, "a period of silence on your part would be most welcome"
And one of my own personal favorites : You should never ask anyone to do something that you are not prepared to do yourself.
If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.
Posted this before but didn't get a response from you, so here it goes again:
Quote
Given the numerous amounts of proven propaganda distributed by the red shirts over this period attempting to paint the army negatively - the images taken from a video of the soldiers shot in the south and placed onto a poster stating this is what happens when soldiers refuse to deal with red shirts, the photoshopped photos of the slain protesters, and not to mention the many images of the so called MiB and Chavalit's men armed and wearing army fatigues on a skytrain station - it's the red shirts with a real credibility crisis and the reason many people are taking their claims about the army shooting journalists and nurses with a very large dose of salt.
I did see your rather commonplace response and with respect it just seemed a reworking of the simple minded bar room talk we've heard from you previously.Anyway since you insist:
It's not a matter of Red propaganda (nor for that matter Government propaganda).It's a matter of having a proper transparent and rigorous investigation.However for those like yourself who have mysteriously (and to be frank impossibly) already access to all relevant information and closed already made up minds, I can see why there might be some resistance.A cynic however who understands the record of the Thai military might say the reluctance of some to see a proper investigation simply anticipates an inquiry uncovering repetition of past behaviour. I am genuinely open minded and as previously noted have the impression the security forces acted reasonably and professionally in the circumstances.My wish is to to seek the truth so far as that's possible, and let the cards fall where they may.
Do I have any confidence this will happen? Not really.
"With respect"!?! Frankly I find such padding cringe worthy, specifically coming from a poster whose main line of attack is to belittle the intelligence of every other poster with an opinion that contrasts to his own, yet only not so long ago figured out the basic typing requirement of pressing the space bar after each comma or period.
As for the rest of your predictably pompous and boring response, a UDD supporter (who admittedly makes the odd feeble attempt at sounding balanced, presumably for the sake of posters who see the name "Jayboy" for the first time) asking for a "proper and transparent rigorous investigation" is almost as cringe worthy as the above. You will probably get your enquiry when the public are convinced such atrocities by the military did occur. That just doesn’t seem to be happening, despite the on-going propaganda drive supporting the notion we see around us.
...Thaksin phoning in gives a clear message that the red shirts are being manipulated for personal gain.
Of course Thaksin is using the poor; this political conflict is all about who will retain/acquire power in Thailand.
On the other hand, Thaksin did help the poor, even if he was manipulating them. In the US, some dishonest state governors and congressmen are repeatedly returned to power by their constituents because they, the pols, deliver the goodies
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jayboy, on 2010-09-05 17:49:34, said:
