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[IsaanAussie]

RedBullHorn, on 2010-12-11 09:56:55, said:

Mine was up 15 Baht per sack, effective 22/11/2010.

RBH,

I dont know why but my feed supplier seems to introduce increases a couple of months later than some others. Still mustn't grumble about the delay

IA

[IsaanAussie]

James007&1/2,

Yes I would like to take it further. I have slaughtered pigs and delivered select cuts and beasts cut into just the primary cuts. As I indicated before it makes a better return than by live weight alone. Carefully done there is a good return in the bits that arent wanted by the original customer, ie. the head.

I have also sold pigs for funerals. This week I sold 6 (630Kg) to one funeral. Not spectacular return but a great way to clear barrows and gilts that arent up to breeding herd scratch. Or to clear cull sows. Beats selling to the market suppliers around here.

Get in touch if you wish to discuss it further.

Isaan Aussie

[James007anahaif]

IsaanAussie, on 2010-12-11 18:49:34, said:

James007&1/2,

Yes I would like to take it further. I have slaughtered pigs and delivered select cuts and beasts cut into just the primary cuts. As I indicated before it makes a better return than by live weight alone. Carefully done there is a good return in the bits that arent wanted by the original customer, ie. the head.

I have also sold pigs for funerals. This week I sold 6 (630Kg) to one funeral. Not spectacular return but a great way to clear barrows and gilts that arent up to breeding herd scratch. Or to clear cull sows. Beats selling to the market suppliers around here.

Get in touch if you wish to discuss it further.

Isaan Aussie

[James007anahaif]

I most certainly would like to discuss it with you.
We live in Ratchaburi. I assume from your name that you come from the Issan area. We have 3 and half rai in Burilam and are due to buy 5 more in May. Raising pigs would be no problem in this area. Our intension was to re-locate to Burilam when finances permitted. Do you want my telephone number?

[James007anahaif]

James007anahaif, on 2010-12-11 13:34:42, said:

Sorry if I do this wrong but it's my first attempt.
I have been a pig farmer for a very short time "June2010" but I've already been thinking on those same lines
Want to try and take iy further??????????????

James007anahaif, on 2010-12-11 13:30:03, said:

IsaanAussie, on 2010-10-03 08:57:31, said:

Ok Pigsters consider this,

I am a small holding pig farmer like many others. My objectives are not to get rich from pigs but to get comfortable from a range of value added products which relate to an integrated pig farming operation. But as an individual it is difficult to cover as many of the niche opportunities as exist, or to produce the volume necessary to create a significant market base and costing.

How many of you have considered being part of some form of collective marketing operation? Take the opportunity of the reduced returns currently facing us and lets say one main objective of the collective was to achieve a return of 70 baht/kg live weight. How many would be interested in that?

It is my belief that now is the time to strike this opportunity. The niche markets exist and are still too small to warrant interest from the large vertically integrated farming companies. Now is the time for us to vertically integrate for mutual advantage. The options are simply presented by the fall of 10 baht per kilo retail all of which is to be absorbed by the growers, us.

Isaan Aussie

I hasten to add that I would like to talk to anyone who can see this as a positive opportunity. The nay sayers can talk to anyone else they like, under the current circumstances I have little time or patience for negative attitudes.

[IsaanAussie]

Would someone care to explain the following article and how raising the tariff on soy bean meal helps me reduce costs? Bangkok Post 22/12/10


Tariff revenue cuts meat costs
The government plans to use the duty income charged on imported soybean meal to lower the production cost of chicken, pork and eggs so it can cut the retail prices on these items for consumers.The strategy is part of a broader policy to cut the price of some foods and liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) to reduce the cost of living.

Arkhom Termpittayapaisith, secretary-general to the National Economic and Social Development Board, said the programme was meant to assist small farm raisers of pork, chicken and eggs.

Soybean meal is a raw material in the animal feed industry, and the tariff revenue is quite high at about 500 to 600 million baht a year - sufficient to finance small farmers buying cheaper ingredients to make feed meal.

Normally Thailand imposes a 2% tariff on imports of soybean meal under the quota system approved by the World Trade Organisation. Any imports from non-WTO members will be charged 10%.

Small raisers including farm co-operatives control only about 20% of meat and egg production in the country. The majority is produced by large private companies.

The government plans to announce a series of measures to lessen the cost of living on Friday. It will likely maintain the subsidy programme for cooking gas and LPG for cars and trucks.

The price of diesel, largely used in the transport sector, will be capped at 30 baht a litre in December to January as the government expects oil prices will settle later on.

[RedBullHorn]

As the saying goes "we farmers buy everything in retail prices and sell our products in farmgate prices."

I don't think there will be a reduce price in feed per sack, the price is there to stay, only up up and up no down...

Anyway since when is the government words louder than action...if the government is sincere, give orders to companies like CPF to reduce their feed prices per sack,
you know what CPF gonna say ?

"Ya ya...Soy's price improved but what 'bout the rest of the ingredients, soybeans down but the rest's still up...you think there's only Soybeans in the whole sack...haha..."

[fruity]

RedBullHorn, on 2010-12-22 19:10:49, said:

As the saying goes "we farmers buy everything in retail prices and sell our products in farmgate prices."

I don't think there will be a reduce price in feed per sack, the price is there to stay, only up up and up no down...

Anyway since when is the government words louder than action...if the government is sincere, give orders to companies like CPF to reduce their feed prices per sack,
you know what CPF gonna say ?

"Ya ya...Soy's price improved but what 'bout the rest of the ingredients, soybeans down but the rest's still up...you think there's only Soybeans in the whole sack...haha..."

RBH,
Firstly, Happy new year!............Secondly: Pigs have always been either " Muck or money" & believe me, that will never change!......Irregardless, where you are, what you feed them bugger all will change! It has always & will always be a matter of 'just hanging on in there'; those that last longest stay to tell the tale; those comments apply worldwide with regards to pig-keeping, not only here in the los.............On a personal note; MANY THANKS for the 'white cement' tip, I have actually witnessed an increase in bone since reading / acting on your tip regarding gilts that are being kept on as sows. Likewise, the Pietrain thread was good. ................Just love them, only one sow in the op, however, she has proved them all wrong & is a fabulous mother (currently on parity three) besides, she ranks as one of the 'cleverest' pigs I've ever met.
Best
Fruity

[IsaanAussie]

Just gotta love these little guys. The white stuff on the noses is a calf milk replacer which I have started using to as a post weaning booster. These were 15 to 18 kgs at 5 weeks.

 Piglets Nov10.jpg   133.86K   12 downloads

Edited by IsaanAussie, 2011-01-08 07:39:24.

[IsaanAussie]

Well its a new year so I thought I would update my feed costs data for those interested. The attached chart shows the increase in prices from June last year to todays figures, around 3%.  I am still returning an average FCR of 2.6 so the nett cost of feed has increased about 100 baht.

 Feed costs per pig Jan 2011.pdf   10.49K   48 downloads

Also for those interested in Betagro Feeds I discovered today that they have a boosted pre-starter grade which my supplier doesnt carry but will stock. I will give it a try but it seems expensive at 310 baht for 10 Kgs. Lately I have been using Lactoca Calf milk replacer with very good results, that costs 90 baht a small bag which stretches to cover a 30 Kg 951 bagful.

I also talked to an English Speaking Betagro rep who has responsibility for this region. I told him that some forum members would like to try the Betagro products but were unable to find a local source. He said he would help anyone who wants to give it a shot. Remember this is his commitment not mine, but for those who wish to try, his name is Khun Buncha Kulprasertsri and he can be contacted at bunchak@betagro.com .

Isaan Aussie

[RedBullHorn]

IA...could i impose on you to indicate only the feed you use to raise from 16 kg to grow out
as in how many No. 1/2/3/4 and 5... Thks

[IsaanAussie]

RedBullHorn, on 2011-01-20 19:46:08, said:

IA...could i impose on you to indicate only the feed you use to raise from 16 kg to grow out
as in how many No. 1/2/3/4 and 5... Thks

RBH,

I would be more than interested in comparison with your own numbers, or of anyone else who cares to post their numbers.
These are the best average figures I can offer, hope they answer your questions. I dont record every feed but the totals used and spot checks seem to lineup fairly well. I also note that I often will hold a litter back on a higher grade if a few are smaller or slower, usually on 954. Equally I seem to get stuck with part bags which I will finish off which raises the average numbers for the smaller pigs, but only marginally.
 Feed used per pig Jan 2011.pdf   10.28K   53 downloads

Isaan Aussie

[RedBullHorn]

My numbers on feed...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/382108-pig-farm-how-to/page__view__findpost__p__4144721

[IsaanAussie]

RBH,

This is an interesting comparison indeed, with not a lot of difference in total cost. I must update my sow costs but there will not be a lot of difference in the overall numbers. You are growing yours out faster than me, and my feed bill is slightly lower.

But I must add that I have had some under performances in recent litter sizes, so at the moment I would have to say that grow finish operations are in front. Hopefully my next lot will be better and then I can refute this comment. However Fruity seems to be going extremely well with his farrow to wean operation, so maybe its just me?

Muck or money, as Fruity says, well I have a firm grip on the shovel at the moment

IA

[Will4uk]

We have a lot of land in Surin, family keeping pigs (30) already not quite up to standard i would like! I enjoy getting involved with it and one day hope to get more involved. Where does somebody start with this? Is there any guys out here willing to advise with start up costs? profits? any advise welcome really.

[IsaanAussie]

Will4uk, on 2011-02-02 10:42:21, said:

We have a lot of land in Surin, family keeping pigs (30) already not quite up to standard i would like! I enjoy getting involved with it and one day hope to get more involved. Where does somebody start with this? Is there any guys out here willing to advise with start up costs? profits? any advise welcome really.

Sure, many of us around prepared to help. I'm in Sisaket come take a look and we can talk about options

Isaan Aussie

[RedBullHorn]

IsaanAussie, on 2010-10-28 05:31:16, said:

Excellent post RBH,

There is little formal market information around but what you describe here probably demonstrates the model in most if not all areas for the independant farmers.

Wouldnt it be great to generate some form of matrix to piece it all together? Radiate out from the feed mills and corporate farms and in  towards the slaughter houses and packing plants. Then add all the wholesalers directly linked to the corporates. Then all the "usual guy" suppliers who are linked to the wholesalers could be overlaid on that.
You would generate a picture of just how the pie is cut up and how few crumbs are left for anyone outside the "club".

Isaan Aussie

Hi IA... as for the whole layout from
feed manufacturer - feed supplier - wholesaler - slaughter house - talat retailer - consumer,
i have all their figures, it is not a subject i wish to tell openly.
Between, i'm doing business exporting live pigs now.

[shaggy1969]

Hi there folks,
                 I am new to this site and would like to introduce myself to you all and hopefully get some advice from you all in the future.
My name is Craig (Shaggy) and my wife is called Wichuda.We started pig farming (small scale) 2 years ago.We still have a lot to learn,
so any tips would be gratefully appreciated.I think that the main problem that we have come across is keeping our pigs cool in summer!!
We learned this in the 1st year so i made a water tower with a roof and that seemed to keep our water cool and when it is really hot they  
get a shower,does anybody know of anything else that we can do to help our pigs.

                                                     Many thanks Shaggy

 Water tower.jpg   77.77K   48 downloads

[IsaanAussie]

Welcome Shaggy,

Tower looks great. First thought is roof ventilation. It looks like your sty roof has a solid ridge capping and the pitch is fairly flat. You might want to look at using your tower building skills and building a few cupolas along the ridge line to establish natural convection. Alternately using spinning vents. Having open walls you wont gain much using fans except a higher power bill.

My sty has a tin roof as well but I get a good draft under the roof due to the raised roof over the centre aisle. So while the pigs are cool the roof surface above them is still hot. I have once or twice splashed myself with hose water that hit the roof before it hit me. Talk about a hot shower!

Isaan Aussie

[shaggy1969]

Hi IsaanAussie,
                 Thank you for the sound advice,I was looking at the photo of your sty that you posted with admiration and envy!!! and to tell you the truth i wished that i had seen it sooner because
i have just recently started building a new sty and wished i had incorporated the raised central roof into my design.I am hoping that the height of my roof will be enough to keep our grunters cool
(height at ridge 5 mtrs),what do you think?but a few spinning vents couldnt do any harm and i suppose they would also help some gases to escape.

May i ask you how long you have been pig farming?and did you farm pigs in Oz?For me and my wife this is a new venture and adventure...to tell you the truth the only contact i had with pigs before was on my cutting block (5 years pig butcher)...and my wife was an office clerk,but we love animals and are trying our best to make a life out of farming...learning by our mistakes .Or should i say that my wife is learning because i am still based in the Netherlands for the next few years

                                                                                                   Regards, Shaggy

 Pig pen #3.jpg   178K   46 downloads
 Pig pen #3a.jpg   149.78K   43 downloads

[IsaanAussie]

Hey Shaggy,

Impressie piece of roofing! At 5 metres, that ridge is only a few hundred mms below mine, it should be fine. But you will need to ventilate it.

From your photos I'm guessing your post layout is similar to mine, basically 4*3 metres. so I have 3 at 4 metres by 7 at 3 metres. To that I added two more rows of posts a metre inside the middle 4 metre run. That means I have 5 metre deep pens each side and a 2 metre wide centre aisle (less the feeders which are in the aisle not the pens). The upper floor is 4 metres wide, so it is supported by 4 posts with heavy load capacity on the outer edges. I hope you can understand all of that.

Anyway the point is your could still build a mezzanine floor down the centre if you wished by adding similar posts in the centre aisle and a floor structure. Whilst you wont get the upper floor cross airflow that I do, the floor upstairs will assist in forming a venturi effect to draw air in from the sides and up along under the roof exhausting at the ridge.

On the experience side, I'm like you a new chum, only two and a half here. Family was involved back home a long time ago and eight years web surfing over the time here. Our initial idea here was to involve the wife youngest brother who wished to get into the business, a brother in law as well. That has all changed as neither understands words like work or clean and thankfully both have moved on to other things. Family issues have been my biggest drawback.

You have two advantages, one your wife will probably handle any such problems easier with you not around. Secondly changes are easier to fix when the budget can be renewed by outside income. You way may well be better.

Now my turn, what are you doing with wastes from the sty?

Isaan Aussie

[shaggy1969]

Hey IsaanAussie,
                           Very good idea about the mezzanine floor,i did see in your photo that you had your water containers inside the building but i thought that it was just a raised platform and didnt realise that it ran the whole length of your building.I dont think that i will be incorporating into my building but i do like the idea of it....plus i would never get any work done because i think i would spend most of my time up there looking down and admiring my pigs  .
My post lay out is not quite as symmetrical as yours,this is the plan of my posts...it may seem a little strange but i designed it around the gestation and farrowing crates.
 clean pole measurement.jpg   475.92K   56 downloads
Total area will be 23 mtr x14.4 mtr,not including the building for me and my wife (6 x 8 mtrs but may become 8 x 8) and the  pig food storage room (6 x 8 mtrs)
 plan.jpg   424K   43 downloads
 Front and Back -.jpg   542.09K   19 downloads
 Left and Right side.jpg   611.21K   11 downloads
Sorry about the amount of diagrams in this post,but sometimes it is easier to show a plan than explain it

After seeing your building i figured that you had been farming for longer than 2.5 years,you really have been busy and done a lot in a short time!!! Do you do everything by yourself now?Touch wood i have managed to get my brother in law to work for me part time,he and his wife ask me if they could borrow 20,00 baht last year from me......i am not greedy,but i am also not stupid...hence they got their money and he payed it back through work ...and boy oh boy can that man work...thankfully a top asset.

Regarding wastes from my sty,well atm we are running off the water onto part off the the rice paddy and also into a pond that has catfish in and the solid matter we put  with our duck/chicken manure mixed with rice husk and then either get used on our or the families land of gets sold per sack.....what do you do with yours?

                                                                                                                                 Shaggy

[IsaanAussie]

WOW Shaggy,

Great stuff! You have twice the farrowing capacity I have. That is some breeding facility. Looks like around 32 sows? What are you going to do with the weaners?

The full length upper floor is now partly  occupied with straw bales (170) , which I moved yesterday. Lucky as we had our first rain last night. So I cant look down on those pigs anymore.  Ultimately I will build feed storage bins in upstairs over each pens feeders so I can dispense directly into the feeders without buckets and bags downstairs.

I dry muck out and compost the lot, What little waste water there is goes into septic tanks, through a solids filters, then soak away drains. Occassionally I pump some output water into the pond to feed the water lettuce and the fish.

Do I do it all? No not always, I was, but now have a guy works for me most of the time. I get the occassional day labourer in the odd jobs etc..

Isaan Aussie

Edited by IsaanAussie, 2011-03-16 05:18:06.

[shaggy1969]

Hey IsaanAussie,
                             It's not quite as big as you think,i have only room for 24 sows and 2 boars in the next building ,24 gestation crates and 8 farrowing crates,2 pens 3 x 3.5 for the boars,1 pen 6 x 4.5 for gilts/quarantined new sow and 2 more pens 5.35 x 6 for the weaners, but i think that i may use these 2 pens for fattening pigs in the beginning from our own weaners because i will not be jumping in at the deep end with 24 sows.We have doing everything in stages and we still have a lot to learn so i think it will be wise to build up from 8-16 and then finally max out at 24.

Hehehee who am i kidding....max out at 24 !!! i have already got the plans for my 4th building in my head,but not on paper yet ...but before i can run i must learn to walk

What do you do with the waste in your septic tanks??do you sell it?and what is water lettuce? am i missing out on something here?got to google that one.

What type of fish do you keep?we have a small pond in the middle of our duck enclosure with catfish and another that i got dug out last year that now has Tilapia in it..

 Pond (a).jpg   80.05K   14 downloads
 Pond (b).jpg   69.72K   23 downloads

Regarding our weaners,at the moment we only have 5 sows consisting of 3 Pietrain+Landrace,1 Large White+Danish Landrace and a Duroc that we call Marissa and so we do not have many piglets,so far we have sold them all in full litters regardless of weight and i heard tonight i heard from my wife that she has sold 17 piglets (2 litters) to someone that she knows through a Thai pig website ,my wife is good friends with the webmaster from that site so that is good networking on her behalf.We have also had many offers from the locals,but they only want to take 2 or 3 at a time....but we have also had requests for 40 per month,but with only 5 sows that would be a little difficult  at this moment in time.

We have also 1 more pen,that i made for wild pigs and runts that nobody wanted to buy (slow feed for our own usage)...but again i learned from my own mistake and this year before rainy season start i will need to extent the roof
  
 DSCF6444.jpg   148.05K   38 downloads
 Pig pen #2.jpg   91.34K   35 downloads

Shaggy

[IsaanAussie]

You Old Shaggy Dog You,

Now you have me gob-smacked. I amazed by it all. Learn to walk? How big is all this going to get?

Septic tank waste. The plan is to pump out the sediment from each septic tank as required into the end filter boxes which are filled with carbonised rice husk. Then empty the entire filter box into composting boxes or windrows of straw. Since there is very little waste going into the septic tanks, other than water, these take months to build up sediments. I have had the tanks pumped out while I was "bedding in" the system and the tanker sold the contents to local farmers.

Currently there are three interlinked septic tanks on each side of the sty. Each tank holds about 1500 litres when at normal operating level. I have yet to decide on the design final for filter boxes as they have to be easy to empty out. So the soak away system which will link both sides of the sty, remains 60 odd metres of open trench and a stack of concrete rings that will form distribution pits at the pipe junctions. Must get on with that!

The septic tanks were sized on the assumption of 15 litres of wash water per pig per day and a hydraulic retention of 5 to 7 days. I don't use anywhere near that much water but others do. After dry muckout I use a 3/4 inch gravity feed hose to wash the floors when needed. But I have walked in when someone else was "helping" and to find he was using the 1", 80 litres a minute water supply from the well pump and just washing everything into the tanks. Just the situation I designed the system for, but not the intended way it is to be used. TIT

Water lettuce, I tried growing on the pond this last year for the first time. I wanted to see what would happen, how fast would it grow and would the pigs eat it, that sort of stuff. So I filled a plastic bag with a few handfuls and took it home. Dumped these few small plants in the pond and six weeks later the pond was almost choked with it. The pigs would get very noisey every lunch time when they expected their fresh salads on time. Pigs will eat any amount of the stuff in preference to other feeds. The water was not turbid anymore, and the catfish happy. But it became a large daily task to harvest the stuff.

I had been pumping water from the distribution pits on the output side of the septic tanks into the pond to get some life happening without dumping in solids. When I stopped feeding the pond the then giant water lettuce slowly died off. A new flush of growth has started which I can only assume is being feed by the remains of the parent crop.

The DM nutrient value of water lettuce is high. Sun dried it reduces to about 5% and can be crumbled up by hand. I have used this in compost and it decomposes very quickly. I am still yet to try using it to make dried molasses as an energy feed component and as fertiliser.

I have some background materials, which I think I may have posted before? Let me know if you want those. I am interested in trying duckweed and have only just managed to get some which the wife is maintaining until I can figure out where to put it.

Again great stuff Shaggy. Nothing Shabby.

Isaan Aussie