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Scaffolding In Front Of Central World Bangkok Collapses, Killing 2


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#151 Chunky1

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Posted 2010-10-29 15:41:25

Why is this a 4 page topic? Construction workers die every single day.

#152 whybother

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Posted 2010-10-29 15:45:45

Why is this a 4 page topic? Construction workers die every single day.

Because it's Central World, and it's the red shirt's fault, or the government's fault, or the coup, or Thaksin, or ...

Or maybe it's just some idiot who did not put the scaffolding up properly.

Edited by whybother, 2010-10-29 15:52:36.


#153 Tanaka

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Posted 2010-10-29 15:47:04


cause and effect, no red shirt fire no scaffold etc etc etc but the bottom line is if the scaffold fell down then it is simply the people that erected it and the insufficient training they were given, we see this type of thing all day every day and no thai seems to give a HOOT, sure I know at least 2 families tonight that wont be smiling in the LOS :(


No underhanded, undemocratically elected leader, no red shirt protest, no fire, no accident.



Your handle is very appropriate.

#154 jimbeam1

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Posted 2010-10-29 15:49:50

My guess is non certified scaffolding and it was not inspected by a qualified inspector before being used by the workers who should be using a Permit to Work"with a job safety analysis that is issued everyday.
Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand does not use the proper certified clamps that is international standard worldwide. They use a hook type connection that simply lays over other scaffolding.
You can drive anywhere in Bkk and see worker at heights riding on top of crane loads(a big no no), using non certified scaffolding, no proper full body harness for working at heights ,etc. I could go on and on about field made wire rope slings that cranes use that have not be load tested or inspected visual but I would just bore everyone. Until both contractors and clients are held responsible for workers accidents you will see no change.

Hence no Health & Safety. But that would push the price up. As we all know life is so cheap. So why bother??????? R.I.P
jb1

#155 Tanlic

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Posted 2010-10-29 15:51:02

Many scafolding collapses are caused by a lazy mans load and as they were pouring concerte it's perfectly possible that was the reason in this case.

Way too quick to point the finger and shout dodgy construction company, most accidents are down to human error.

The Thai slaggers on here can't help themselves and their know it all attitude stinks.

Wasn't that long ago there were so many collapses in Sydney Australia they had a special investigation team look into it, the UK has loads every year, 3 only recently, some may remember the large hotel where the whole lot came down, New York had a bad one not that long ago and 30 odd people ended up in hospital when one collapes about 2 months ago in Nigeria

It's a worldwide problem and building is a dangerous game no matter what country your in.

Unless someone knows different this is the first one I've heard off since the building boom started.

Sorry for those who died and I hope they get the others out safely which is now the most important thing.

#156 asiawatcher

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Posted 2010-10-29 16:19:10

More ghosts for Ratchaprasong :(


Yes - more unnecessary deaths contributed to the red scumbags.

#157 swillowbee

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Posted 2010-10-29 16:21:19

I'm not in the least surprised, Only last week I had to lend our scaffolder a spanner to tighten nuts on fixings as he just hung on them after hand tightening them to check if safe enough !!! Also same week took my sons bicycle to a reputable (god only knows how) bicycle repair shop for two new tyres to be fitted. It was returned with painted white 'Direction of travel' markings facing backwards and a nut missing.

They were really jostling with the Laotians and Nigerians at the back of the queue when God handed out brains weren't they.

. . . in a survey of 6,000 Thais in 18 provinces, conducted by the Health Systems Research Institute, the average Thai IQ = 91 . . . 25% of those tested (-1 standard deviation to -2 standard deviations) are below 75 . . . IQ = 70 is mentally retarded . . . 8.5% of thise tested were below IQ = 70.

. . . the cause identified by researchers is lack of iodine, essential for fetal brain developoment.

. . . so sad for Thai children.

http://www.nationmul...e-30134140.html

Edited by swillowbee, 2010-10-29 16:23:06.


#158 Soutpeel

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Posted 2010-10-29 16:22:08


My guess is non certified scaffolding and it was not inspected by a qualified inspector before being used by the workers who should be using a Permit to Work"with a job safety analysis that is issued everyday.
Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand does not use the proper certified clamps that is international standard worldwide. They use a hook type connection that simply lays over other scaffolding.
You can drive anywhere in Bkk and see worker at heights riding on top of crane loads(a big no no), using non certified scaffolding, no proper full body harness for working at heights ,etc. I could go on and on about field made wire rope slings that cranes use that have not be load tested or inspected visual but I would just bore everyone. Until both contractors and clients are held responsible for workers accidents you will see no change.


Would agree with all you say, except what you should have said rather then "Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand.. " is "Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand that I have seen which is admittedly a small sample..."

TH


Seeing as we are playing the generalisation game, In my experience in Thailand in industry, I have worked with scaffolders and riggers who are as skilled, professional and as safe (sometimes better) as anywhere in the "western" world, and it may shock are esteemed TV resident construction "experts" to find they are in fact Thai , indonesian and Malyasian nationals.....:rolleyes:

As regards the accident at hand, no one at this stage really knows what happened, but its nice seeing the resident "TV experts" out in force giving their "professional" judgements as always.

On an eariler post somebody commented about OSHA coming to Thailand to see what was going on.....My I humbly suggest that OSHA stay out of Thailand until such time as they get their own backyard cleaned up, some of the best examples of bad scaffolding and rigging practices can be found in the US which I have seen them with my own two eyes, really scarey stuff...:whistling:

#159 dobadoy

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Posted 2010-10-29 16:26:20

RIP for the victims, a needless tragedy for both them and their families.

My guess is this is compounded of several causes:

1. Theft or sabotage of brackets/bolts
(red shirts? Could be - they don't like CW, remember - or just scavengers? Either is possible, maybe both, maybe one and the same!)

+

2. Overloading (pouring concrete? maybe...)

+

3. Poor supervision (asleep, down the brothel, watching TV, moonlighting)

I'll also put money on some low-level supervisor being found and made scapegoat (the company will like that) while 1 & 2 largely get overlooked.

Edited by dobadoy, 2010-10-29 16:30:13.


#160 rotary

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Posted 2010-10-29 16:50:06


Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand does not use the proper certified clamps that is international standard worldwide.

Ah yes... the same as they use in Malaysia and Japan and... South Africa and... Brazil.

"international standard worldwide".... LOL


I assure you there are world standards such as ASME, Z359 for safety belts, and others that do state standards that are worldwide industry standards which many govt worldwide incorporate into their laws. I never said they were used by all countries but believe me they are in place as references. Many times in contract"s these are referenced to as "Best industry practice". Its a catch all in many contracts.
Do you think this construction firm would have not have been more safety oriented if they were subject to say a 10,000 pound per day fine for scaffolding if it does not meet Industry Standards? Do you think ZEN might have checked their contractors safety practices if ZEN knew that they could also be liable for injury to workers if their contractor did not fulfil their obligation to make sure that safe work practices were put in place by workers on their work site? I think the key word here is enforcement. And yes I have worked in Asia since 1982 everywhere from India to Indonesia to Singapore to Burma. I have seen the worst believe me so don't think I dropped in the airport last week trying to impose European Standards here.

#161 rotary

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Posted 2010-10-29 16:52:46

Thats correct on OSHA staying home.....ha ha they have plenty to keep them busy there! LOL



My guess is non certified scaffolding and it was not inspected by a qualified inspector before being used by the workers who should be using a Permit to Work"with a job safety analysis that is issued everyday.
Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand does not use the proper certified clamps that is international standard worldwide. They use a hook type connection that simply lays over other scaffolding.
You can drive anywhere in Bkk and see worker at heights riding on top of crane loads(a big no no), using non certified scaffolding, no proper full body harness for working at heights ,etc. I could go on and on about field made wire rope slings that cranes use that have not be load tested or inspected visual but I would just bore everyone. Until both contractors and clients are held responsible for workers accidents you will see no change.


Would agree with all you say, except what you should have said rather then "Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand.. " is "Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand that I have seen which is admittedly a small sample..."

TH


Seeing as we are playing the generalisation game, In my experience in Thailand in industry, I have worked with scaffolders and riggers who are as skilled, professional and as safe (sometimes better) as anywhere in the "western" world, and it may shock are esteemed TV resident construction "experts" to find they are in fact Thai , indonesian and Malyasian nationals.....:rolleyes:

As regards the accident at hand, no one at this stage really knows what happened, but its nice seeing the resident "TV experts" out in force giving their "professional" judgements as always.

On an eariler post somebody commented about OSHA coming to Thailand to see what was going on.....My I humbly suggest that OSHA stay out of Thailand until such time as they get their own backyard cleaned up, some of the best examples of bad scaffolding and rigging practices can be found in the US which I have seen them with my own two eyes, really scarey stuff...:whistling:



#162 thaihome

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Posted 2010-10-29 16:56:52



Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand does not use the proper certified clamps that is international standard worldwide.

Ah yes... the same as they use in Malaysia and Japan and... South Africa and... Brazil.

"international standard worldwide".... LOL


I assure you there are world standards such as ASME, Z359 for safety belts, and others that do state standards that are worldwide industry standards which many govt worldwide incorporate into their laws. I never said they were used by all countries but believe me they are in place as references. Many times in contract"s these are referenced to as "Best industry practice". Its a catch all in many contracts.
Do you think this construction firm would have not have been more safety oriented if they were subject to say a 10,000 pound per day fine for scaffolding if it does not meet Industry Standards? Do you think ZEN might have checked their contractors safety practices if ZEN knew that they could also be liable for injury to workers if their contractor did not fulfil their obligation to make sure that safe work practices were put in place by workers on their work site? I think the key word here is enforcement. And yes I have worked in Asia since 1982 everywhere from India to Indonesia to Singapore to Burma. I have seen the worst believe me so don't think I dropped in the airport last week trying to impose European Standards here.


Then you would agree that commercial construction is always the last to catch up and even in the most regulated western country, that is were most accidents of this nature happen.

To my knowledge, an owner is not liable for the injuries of one it's contractor's workers anywhere. If that was true, not much would actually get built anywhere.
TH

#163 bdenner

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Posted 2010-10-29 17:08:07

Not at all, the chain of causation would have been broken a long time ago, the cause of this accident was not the fact a building burnt down (as yet we we still don't know who torched it, there are conflicting versions)--------

Duh !! So there is a statute of limitations on this criminal act in your opinion!! You don't know who torched it??? You need to get your need to get your head out of the sand. --- It was my elderly Mother getting her 10 minutes of fame as a supporter of the "Blue Rinse Set". What's your guess if your not sure?

Ya gotta wonder!

Edited by bdenner, 2010-10-29 17:09:29.


#164 peacefulwarrior

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Posted 2010-10-29 17:12:10

It's a shame that this 'house of profit', now again is the scene of "murder" - first some 90 people died, no one from the government paid their respect / regret about this. But they laid down flowers for the cash cow (CW) and teenagers were outraged about their 'temple' had been desecrated by those 'primitive anti-government-people' / terrorists from the countryside and their posh dreams went up in flames.
Now the corrupt mal-practice of giving 'safety approvals' to any 'builder' having some extra cash for the 'officials' again kills people. Ignorance is Bliss. Who cares about the 'code of honor' anymore, obviously nobody on any side... very sad, very sick, very common.
:whistling:

#165 Steele404

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Posted 2010-10-29 17:12:10

Why pay extra for safety programs when you can pay 20,000 baht for the construction worker's deaths - the going rate in contractors

#166 truethailand

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Posted 2010-10-29 17:26:29

Cost cutting???? I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.



It was Taksin who undid the bolts. Jog on

#167 truethailand

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Posted 2010-10-29 17:37:04


I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.


What did the red shirts have to do with it?

Even though they burnt the place down, they can't be held responsible for shoddy construction methods.



Sorry Army burnt the thing down. It was in desperate need of refurb and the owners are very pally with the army. Was only recently that the owners bought some old army barracks in the city centre. Please broaden your horizons and dont believe what any media tell you here.

#168 whybother

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Posted 2010-10-29 17:39:56



I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.


What did the red shirts have to do with it?

Even though they burnt the place down, they can't be held responsible for shoddy construction methods.



Sorry Army burnt the thing down. It was in desperate need of refurb and the owners are very pally with the army. Was only recently that the owners bought some old army barracks in the city centre. Please broaden your horizons and dont believe what any media tell you here.

... and I'm expected to believe what you tell me?

#169 gbswales

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Posted 2010-10-29 18:11:06

4 workers injured when scaffold as Central World collapses

A scaffold for workers to repair the fire-damaged Central World collapsed Friday, injuring four workers, police said.

The accident happened at 10 am.

Rescue workers were searching whether more workers were trapped under the collapsed scaffold.


-- The Nation 2010-10-29



These deaths resulted from the damage caused by the bombers who are now, at least idirectly, murderers in my view - without the bomb there would have been no rebuilding and without the rebuilding no scaffolding.....

#170 whybother

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Posted 2010-10-29 18:15:32


4 workers injured when scaffold as Central World collapses

A scaffold for workers to repair the fire-damaged Central World collapsed Friday, injuring four workers, police said.

The accident happened at 10 am.

Rescue workers were searching whether more workers were trapped under the collapsed scaffold.


-- The Nation 2010-10-29



These deaths resulted from the damage caused by the bombers who are now, at least idirectly, murderers in my view - without the bomb there would have been no rebuilding and without the rebuilding no scaffolding.....

What bomb?

#171 jackr

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Posted 2010-10-29 18:16:46

I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

What did the red shirts have to do with it?

Everything. FYI, they torched the place.

An eye for an eye; take two prominent red shirts in the clink and execute them.

#172 phetaroi

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Posted 2010-10-29 18:28:50

Rather than blame red shirts, why not blame the government ? They are responsible for health and safety organisations aren't they ! Abhisit and his monkey have more blood on their hands (as well as cash)


I think we should blame the Hindu gods at whose statues out front hundreds of Thai Buddhists prayed every day. With the arson destruction of Central World and now these fatalities, the Buddhists will have to return to the Hindu shrine at Erawan Hotel. Oh wait, that's no longer a lucky shrine due to the man who defaced the shrine and his murder. Hmmm...this is getting to beproblematic. We seem to be running out of notable Hindu shrines at that intersection.

#173 Soutpeel

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Posted 2010-10-29 18:39:11

After reading the vast majority of these posts, one had better hope an IQ/intelligence test doesnt become part of the visa requirements for Thailand , as I suspect we would be seeing a signficant drop in the number of TV members permitted to live in Thailand...:whistling:

Never read so much drivel on TV in a long time

#174 cdnvic

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Posted 2010-10-29 18:41:54

1 flame removed

#175 rixalex

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Posted 2010-10-29 18:55:45

Sorry Army burnt the thing down. It was in desperate need of refurb and the owners are very pally with the army.

Desperate need of refurb? Where are you getting this from? It had been refurbished at vast expense only a year or two prior.





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