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[phuketfrank]

Hi all!

I was fortunate enough to quit drinking for over a year before I came to Thailand, but unfortunately I've gone back to being a heavy drinker and I want to get things back under control - no more booze for me.

Back in the UK I was taking a drug called Campral (acamprosate), which massively reduced my cravings for booze - that along with a bit of will-power was what helped me to quit before.

I would like to go cold turkey and stop drinking - does anybody know where I can find Campral in Thailand? I would be extremely grateful if any of you kind people could help me out

[Sheryl]

Although the drug is approved for use in thailand there do nto appear to be any brands licensed for import nor any loc al production so it may not be possible to find it. If anyplace has it, would be a hospital, could try a psychiatrist specializing in addiction disorders (check out the websites of Samitivej, Bangkok Hospital and Bumrungrad to find one).

[phuketfrank]

Sheryl, on 2010-11-15 21:49:47, said:

Although the drug is approved for use in thailand there do nto appear to be any brands licensed for import nor any loc al production so it may not be possible to find it. If anyplace has it, would be a hospital, could try a psychiatrist specializing in addiction disorders (check out the websites of Samitivej, Bangkok Hospital and Bumrungrad to find one).

If I was to order them from an online pharmacy and had them delivered to my home address (in Thailand), what would happen? Am I likely to get in trouble?

I have purchased Campral from a particular online pharmacy before but this was when I was living in the UK.

Any thoughts?

Edited by phuketfrank, 2010-11-17 07:26:47.

[saraburioz]

Are you an alcoholic?

I think i might be. I'm asking because I don't really want to quit. Could you drink moderately with this drug?

Maybe these people know

https://sites.google...phuket/meetings

[phuketfrank2]

From my experience in the UK, yes you can use it in that way (replacing drink on your "sober nights"), although it is most effective if you go completely without alcohol.
Am I an alcoholic? Define "alcoholic" . I've quit drinking and smoking, and I am very lucky that I find it relatively easy to do so.

The main reason I want some Campral is for the "neuroprotective" effects - makes it healthier to quit than just stopping. Reduces the possibility of brain damage (from Wikipedia):

Alcohol inhibits activity of biochemical receptors called N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors, or NMDARs, so that chronic alcohol consumption leads to the overproduction (upregulation) of these receptors . Thus, sudden alcohol abstinence causes these excessive numbers of NMDARs to be more active than normal and to produce the symptoms of delirium tremens and excitotoxic neuronal death. Withdrawal from alcohol induces a surge in release of excitatory neurotransmitters like glutamate, which activates NMDARs. Acamprosate reduces this glutamate surge. The drug also protects cultured cells in excitotoxicity induced by ethanol withdrawal and by glutamate exposure combined with ethanol withdrawal.

I'm not planning on joining the AA - I know that some people find them to be a valuable support, and that's great.
But unless the AA have found a way to magically pacify the N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors in my brain when I stop drinking, I'll continue to go my own way.

I'm sure there will be some that think I am deluding myself, I'm really an alcy, I need the AA, blah blah blah. I don't need their help thankyou, just the very specific help offered by a particular drug that nobody on thaivisa seems to have ever taken.

Thanks for the reply anyway - I'm sure your heart is in the right place

saraburioz, on 2010-11-29 16:56:58, said:

Are you an alcoholic?

I think i might be. I'm asking because I don't really want to quit. Could you drink moderately with this drug?

Maybe these people know

https://sites.google...phuket/meetings

[carvets]

phuketfrank2, on 2010-12-06 19:14:02, said:

From my experience in the UK, yes you can use it in that way (replacing drink on your "sober nights"), although it is most effective if you go completely without alcohol.
Am I an alcoholic? Define "alcoholic" . I've quit drinking and smoking, and I am very lucky that I find it relatively easy to do so.

The main reason I want some Campral is for the "neuroprotective" effects - makes it healthier to quit than just stopping. Reduces the possibility of brain damage (from Wikipedia):

Alcohol inhibits activity of biochemical receptors called N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors, or NMDARs, so that chronic alcohol consumption leads to the overproduction (upregulation) of these receptors . Thus, sudden alcohol abstinence causes these excessive numbers of NMDARs to be more active than normal and to produce the symptoms of delirium tremens and excitotoxic neuronal death. Withdrawal from alcohol induces a surge in release of excitatory neurotransmitters like glutamate, which activates NMDARs. Acamprosate reduces this glutamate surge. The drug also protects cultured cells in excitotoxicity induced by ethanol withdrawal and by glutamate exposure combined with ethanol withdrawal.

I'm not planning on joining the AA - I know that some people find them to be a valuable support, and that's great.
But unless the AA have found a way to magically pacify the N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors in my brain when I stop drinking, I'll continue to go my own way.

I'm sure there will be some that think I am deluding myself, I'm really an alcy, I need the AA, blah blah blah. I don't need their help thankyou, just the very specific help offered by a particular drug that nobody on thaivisa seems to have ever taken.

Thanks for the reply anyway - I'm sure your heart is in the right place

Dont know if your still around Frank but i have had Campral in the past in Australia. I am an alcoholic and couldn't stop drinking . Campral amazingly , did stop the cravings on the second day i used it. And it worked for about a week. However , i tried to use it to control my drinking  thinking it might work whilst i drank only minimally. But as soon as i started drinking , the compulsion and obsession came back and overrode the effects of the Campral , rendering it useless.  But it can work to kick start you and help get you through the initial stages of withdrawal if you dont drink.  I dont think it works in combination with alcohol . But if your worried about the DT's then a short stay in hospital should get you through that.  Good luck. even though luck has nuttin to do with it !!

[ding]

I've never heard of it, but if it works for you, I hope you locate it.
Good luck! (kick)

[phuketfrank3]

ding, on 2010-12-17 06:00:18, said:

I've never heard of it, but if it works for you, I hope you locate it.
Good luck! (kick)

Hello, yes I'm still about
Not very good at remembering passwords and suchlike though

I ordered from the online pharmacy that I had used back in the UK. The package arrived successfully after maybe about 2 weeks, they send via EMS first class. The packaging was well done, no "rattling noises" if you shook the package or anything. It works the same as the stuff I'd had before, this time it is branded as "Zulex". So yes, 4 days without drinking so far, no problems.

It takes away the physiological "urge" to drink for me, which is very useful indeed. The same kind of urge that smokers get when they crave nicotine.

The psychological addiction is something else again though People (me included) get used to having a nightly session, and as the evening wears on you might start to feel bored, depressed etc. Then your brain has a great idea "Hey, why don't I have some booze? Always cheers me up, makes me feel better". This is the moment of danger. If you can resist the urge for 10 days or so, your psyche will start to forget about the booze. Make sure you have something else to do. Get some good films to watch or a DVD box set. Exercise or go swimming. Read a good book.

The literature advises that Campral should be used in conjunction with a support group, and I can see why. Campral can help you go from "I need to get drunk" to "I quite fancy getting drunk, I'm bored". The rest is up to you

I would love to tell you where I bought my supply from, but I think I would need the go-ahead from a moderator before I could do this.

[saraburioz]

phuketfrank2, on 2010-12-06 19:14:02, said:

From my experience in the UK, yes you can use it in that way (replacing drink on your "sober nights"), although it is most effective if you go completely without alcohol.
Am I an alcoholic? Define "alcoholic" . I've quit drinking and smoking, and I am very lucky that I find it relatively easy to do so.

Really, you don't know what an alcoholic is?  An alcoholic is someone who when takes a drink has a reaction different to normal people. This reaction cause physical cravings. it's pretty much impossible for an alcoholic to take a couple of beers early on in the evening then drink cokes after it.
If you don't know -  i'd suggest go out to the pub and take a drink of whiskey. Then sit there for 3 hours drinking soda water  -  if you can't do this, you are an alcoholic -  simple.

[phuketfrank3]

Edited by me for being argumentative, I'm sure you have the best interest of the people on this forum at your heart.

Edited by phuketfrank3, 2011-01-26 20:26:44.

[baboon]

Frank-I am interested in trying out this drug.I am a little fed up drinking evening after evening,and want to pack up for a good while.
When you say you started drinking heavily once in Thailand,how much alcohol were you consuming per day?
does it help much with the "It is evening so it must be time for drinkies"problem?
What about side effects?I understand it can make you feel really tired?

I wish you all the very best,mate.

[phuketfrank9]

baboon, on 2011-02-17 22:51:04, said:

Frank-I am interested in trying out this drug.I am a little fed up drinking evening after evening,and want to pack up for a good while.
When you say you started drinking heavily once in Thailand,how much alcohol were you consuming per day?
does it help much with the "It is evening so it must be time for drinkies"problem?
What about side effects?I understand it can make you feel really tired?

I wish you all the very best,mate.

Possibly 10+ bottles of 330ml beer per night, or the lion's share of a bottle of whisky.

And yes, it certainly helps with the "time for drinkies" problem. I've always been a functional heavy drinker - never lost a job or a girlfriend because of the booze. But when it gets to 7PM-8PM, I would start to feel a little bit edgy. That is the time when Campral can help. It's worth pointing out that for some people, valium can quell the urge to drink - of course, that could be seen as only replacing one problem with another, and a drug like that should be prescribed by a doctor.

I never had any tiredness problems with Campral, but it might be something that changes from person to person. Pretty much no side-effects for me.

[Johnniey]

phuketfrank9, on 2011-09-03 14:44:21, said:

baboon, on 2011-02-17 22:51:04, said:

Frank-I am interested in trying out this drug.I am a little fed up drinking evening after evening,and want to pack up for a good while.
When you say you started drinking heavily once in Thailand,how much alcohol were you consuming per day?
does it help much with the "It is evening so it must be time for drinkies"problem?
What about side effects?I understand it can make you feel really tired?

I wish you all the very best,mate.

Possibly 10+ bottles of 330ml beer per night, or the lion's share of a bottle of whisky.

And yes, it certainly helps with the "time for drinkies" problem. I've always been a functional heavy drinker - never lost a job or a girlfriend because of the booze. But when it gets to 7PM-8PM, I would start to feel a little bit edgy. That is the time when Campral can help. It's worth pointing out that for some people, valium can quell the urge to drink - of course, that could be seen as only replacing one problem with another, and a drug like that should be prescribed by a doctor.

I never had any tiredness problems with Campral, but it might be something that changes from person to person. Pretty much no side-effects for me.

So the problem is feeling 'edgy' - you are drinking to alleviate these feelings.
I suggest you seek a psychologist to help find out where your fear is coming from.
Valium makes you stoned so then you don't feel nervy or edgy.
Do you only feel nervous at this time if you are in a bar? What about if you are home?

Edited by Johnniey, 2011-09-03 16:10:12.

[phuketfrank9]

I'm happy enough with the "scientific" explaination:

Quote

Alcohol inhibits activity of biochemical receptors called N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors, or NMDARs, so that chronic alcohol consumption leads to the overproduction (upregulation) of these receptors . Thus, sudden alcohol abstinence causes these excessive numbers of NMDARs to be more active than normal and to produce the symptoms of delirium tremens and excitotoxic neuronal death.

I don't think that the problem is a psychiatric one - an imbalance of brain chemicals caused by drinking too much seems more logical to me.

Valium is considered a legitimate treatment for alcohol withdrawal, as the first paragraph of the wikipedia entry for diazepam confirms:

Quote

Diazepam, first marketed as Valium by Hoffmann-La Roche is a benzodiazepine drug. Diazepam is also marketed in Australia as Antenex. It is commonly used for treating anxiety, insomnia, seizures including status epilepticus, muscle spasms (such as in cases of tetanus), restless legs syndrome, alcohol withdrawal, benzodiazepine withdrawal and Ménière's disease.

If you want to take diazepam or acamprosate, you should always seek the advice of a qualified medical professional before taking action. Having used both, acamprosate has little in the way of side-effects, while diazepam has the potential to be addictive. However, diazepam is readily available in Thailand, unlike acamprosate.

Johnniey, on 2011-09-03 15:54:54, said:

So the problem is feeling 'edgy' - you are drinking to alleviate these feelings.
I suggest you seek a psychologist to help find out where your fear is coming from.
Valium makes you stoned so then you don't feel nervy or edgy.
Do you only feel nervous at this time if you are in a bar? What about if you are home?

[Sheryl]

Diazepam is a strictly controlled drug in Thailand and not at all easy to come by legally. illegal purchase could have serious legal consequences.

There are a number of well qualified psychiatrists in LOS specializing in addiction disorders including several who trained in the west. The assistance of such a professional can be invaluable and they would be the best able to advise regarding suitable medication for a particular individual.

[phuketfrank9]

Good advice, Sheryl. I hope that I did not seem to imply that people should go to their local dodgy pharmacy and stock up on diazepam. Such an action could find you in a Thai jail.

I think that the main point I have been trying to make in this thread is that medication can be a great help to somebody who is determined to stop drinking. Many years ago I was able to give up alcohol cold turkey, but the side-effects aren't too pleasant. More recently when I quit again, acamprosate was a great help.

Almost every medical professional agrees that anti-alcohol medication should be used hand in hand with some kind of support, such as a psychiatrist or the AA.

Do some psychiatrists in LOS have access to acamprosate? I seem to remember on a previous thread that it would be hard to find here.

Sheryl, on 2011-09-04 16:05:40, said:

Diazepam is a strictly controlled drug in Thailand and not at all easy to come by legally. illegal purchase could have serious legal consequences.

There are a number of well qualified psychiatrists in LOS specializing in addiction disorders including several who trained in the west. The assistance of such a professional can be invaluable and they would be the best able to advise regarding suitable medication for a particular individual.

[Sheryl]

phuketfrank9, on 2011-09-05 14:33:12, said:

Good advice, Sheryl. I hope that I did not seem to imply that people should go to their local dodgy pharmacy and stock up on diazepam. Such an action could find you in a Thai jail.

I think that the main point I have been trying to make in this thread is that medication can be a great help to somebody who is determined to stop drinking. Many years ago I was able to give up alcohol cold turkey, but the side-effects aren't too pleasant. More recently when I quit again, acamprosate was a great help.

Almost every medical professional agrees that anti-alcohol medication should be used hand in hand with some kind of support, such as a psychiatrist or the AA.

Do some psychiatrists in LOS have access to acamprosate? I seem to remember on a previous thread that it would be hard to find here.

I don't know, they might as the drug is approved for use although not locally distributed. in cases like that sometimes the larger private hospitals have a supply from abroad.

I really haven't seen any feedback from people consulting specialists talking about your childhood etc. Not the case. these aren't psychologists, they don't do psychotherapy, they specialize in the sklilful use of medications and other modalities to help people who wish to overcome an addiciton. They can also assist with mecically supervised detox.