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Rubber Tree Fertilizers


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#1 Alex5211

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Posted 2011-02-05 22:40:44

I have read through the rubber topics here but I have not found a discussion about the different brands, ingredients and prices for rubber tree fertilizers.

Except that a rough estimate for a 50kg bag is about 1000 Baht.

I heard some poor thai farmers in my wifes village are buying the fertilizers and sometimes they do not even work. The seller says: I cannot do anything about that etc. and they just accept it.

Following Brands seem to work or to be ok although they differ greatly of what ingredients they contain:

Yara
Katai (Rabbit brand) with following ingredients: 15% N - 15% PO - 15%KO - 3,5% CaO

And there is supposed to be organic fertilizers from Malaysia that are less than half the price and they are supposed to work as good. I am suspicious of that.

What ingredients for young and old rubber trees do you suggest?
How much right now is a 50kg bag of for example Yara or Katai or a similar brand?
Do you have any suggestion for any brand and how to buy it? through which channels? What has worked for you?

Right now I have offers for 50kg bags of different brands starting from 830 to 950 Baht including transport or 810 Baht without transport in Northern Isaarn.

I want to buy 50 or up to 500 bags of 50kg each and I need a good source and a good product.
How long can you store these fertilizers? Years

And last but not least: what is your experience with fertilizing 2,3 or 4 times a year. Is 2 times optimal for expenses/return?

#2 chang35baht

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Posted 2011-02-06 06:44:04

NPK 20-10-12 for rubber trees.

C35B

#3 Alex5211

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Posted 2011-02-06 14:36:42

NPK 20-10-12 for rubber trees.

C35B


thanks for your answer!

rubber trees any age -same fertilizer??

is this the company (see attachement)? this place seems to be in Nakhon Patom, near Bangkok? this one has 20-10-12...

any alternatives? where do you buy?

#4 Alex5211

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Posted 2011-02-06 14:46:11

here with attachment:

Attached File  Photo0058.jpg   581.49KB   47 downloads

NPK 20-10-12 for rubber trees.

C35B


thanks for your answer!

rubber trees any age -same fertilizer??

is this the company (see attachement)? this place seems to be in Nakhon Patom, near Bangkok? this one has 20-10-12...

any alternatives? where do you buy?

#5 jamescollister

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Posted 2011-02-06 18:14:15


NPK 20-10-12 for rubber trees.

C35B


thanks for your answer!

rubber trees any age -same fertilizer??

is this the company (see attachement)? this place seems to be in Nakhon Patom, near Bangkok? this one has 20-10-12...

any alternatives? where do you buy?

Go to your local Amphor Office and get the idiots guide to rubber. It has all the fertiliser types and times to use. It is in Thai and even I could understand it. Don't buy off those snake oil salesman that come around selling magic fertiliser, buy from the bigger supply stores. Jim

#6 IsaanAussie

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Posted 2011-02-07 09:27:49

So Jim, I suppose this snake oil saleman couldnt interest you in some compost and biochar? A little soil drench, no oil included?

Isaan Aussie

#7 Alex5211

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Posted 2011-02-07 10:27:44

Jim, thanks for the answer.
I am trying to convince my wife to convince her sister to go to the local Amphoe Office..
that is kind of an ongoing effort right now;)

Is there only one Amphoe office? Is it the same one that handles birth certificates???
I will try to get this brochure. We are not in Isarn but maybe I can get it in Hua Hin also?

I am sure the vast majority of thai rubber farmers have never studied that book.

do you mind to give a quick outline for young trees, middle age and old trees - which fertilizer to give?

#8 jamescollister

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Posted 2011-02-07 15:56:08

So Jim, I suppose this snake oil saleman couldnt interest you in some compost and biochar? A little soil drench, no oil included?

Isaan Aussie

worst type of snake oil salesman is an Aussie, but I would take all the pig shit you have. Jim

#9 IsaanAussie

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Posted 2011-02-07 18:47:48


So Jim, I suppose this snake oil saleman couldnt interest you in some compost and biochar? A little soil drench, no oil included?

Isaan Aussie

worst type of snake oil salesman is an Aussie, but I would take all the pig shit you have. Jim


sorry dont have enough pig manure to sell it at the expense of the compost.
IA

#10 Alex5211

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Posted 2011-03-05 16:45:40

NPK 20-10-12 for rubber trees.

C35B



20-10-12 is only for young rubber trees it seems

any other useful (please) input here?

#11 tothemark

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Posted 2011-03-05 23:28:56

20 8 20 for the older rubber, yellow bag with a crown on it, VIV, some call it superman !

I paid 880 a bag today, but its going up and with the libya crisis all fertiliser will skyrocket, perhaps even to 2008 levels of 1400 a bag, so it might be worth buying the whole years supply now. Thats if you have somewhere cool/ shaded and ventilated and safe to store it.

#12 Foreverford

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Posted 2011-03-06 21:49:53



So Jim, I suppose this snake oil saleman couldnt interest you in some compost and biochar? A little soil drench, no oil included?

Isaan Aussie

worst type of snake oil salesman is an Aussie, but I would take all the pig shit you have. Jim


sorry dont have enough pig manure to sell it at the expense of the compost.
IA

don't worry Jimmy boy it's nothing personal he pulled the same crap (can I say that here) with me I got bags of his finished product but no raw stuff for woims and even inspected the entire operation and found no snakeskins but I was moving so fast I might have stepped on a live one and not noticed. Got a bunch of water lettuce and that sounds like the real future "oil" , snakes not even included for this charlatan or is the word chameleon. Only thing I know is that I'll throw my money his way when it comes to his products. Hell he even has it together enough to have Duroc hogs that will be just perfect in color to manage the warm tropical suns for my free range swimming hogs cycle of the year for the small farm, should finish the perimeter klong/fence before the rainy season hits I hope. Hogs, plants from water bogs, composts and teas to set your plants free, I'll put my faith in this healer of the land and soul, seller of oils of snake and castings of worms that shake. I loaded the Ford "custom" "Rung" wagon with the compost bags and worm castings and had it a half meter high on the roof (I'll haul 50% more next time I and the compost are available and will end up paying full wholesale price, I imagine, because the first deal was way too good (I'm sure part of the snake oil tradesman policy, sell it low make it the best and if they write something good and come back again and again to buy more hey maybe you're doing something right) on my side (heck a fire as dey all say dis boy so deeeranged he wanted to throw in some fine butchered hog meat for free too before I ran away from him. My daddy told me.......). Anywho I transplanted dozens of rare variety tomatoes, some wild ones included from the American desert land, that I had started on Dec 1. All these went into raise beds that I ammended that day with his "pig bio-char EM" "snake oil" compost with a helpful bunch in each hole. As I am sure Soidog can attest these were not the fittest of specimens but from Hua Hin to Issan they were survivors. Now they are exploding from the ground (according to undisclosed sources) (I'm in the US freezing enroute to the desert of Death Valley) with the corn backing them up and sprouting out of the ground in a few days. An entire previous planting of carrots was a 0% bust and in the same ground with compost we now have completely successful germination and fast growth. i can't wait for the day that his loader is up again(I/A I got the guy working on the main hydraulics, my clutch man in Prakon Chai, for the Ford and will be in touch when he finishes it up) I'll be able to test it in April, (and oh I'll geev eet a good test or two) working and dozens of pigs a week start to move through, save me a post harvest xmas litter. With that much manure even you and I jim might be able to get a bag or two of unprocessed stuff and hopefully will keep the cost down where it is now and will make the ability to haul 10-100 tons a year a reality. As of now I'll buy every bag I can get my hands on and can stuff into that old Ford wagon, sure would like to customize it into a hot rod flatbed but I/A I don't think I'm as bad a jammer as you are to be able to pull it off but maybe we could do a little trade and you take it for a while and put some jimmy jam on it though I doubt you know that much about autos (a yuk a yukka) Ford loaders full of compost Forever

#13 customcurb

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Posted 2011-03-21 05:32:43

have been to the ag office in the amphur and got the generic info.

anyone ever tried or know of this this company? T.R.M. Associated Co., Ltd.

was referenced on the Bandunglife site and has website as www.trminter.com

comments ?

#14 jamescollister

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Posted 2011-03-21 10:50:28




So Jim, I suppose this snake oil saleman couldnt interest you in some compost and biochar? A little soil drench, no oil included?

Isaan Aussie

worst type of snake oil salesman is an Aussie, but I would take all the pig shit you have. Jim


sorry dont have enough pig manure to sell it at the expense of the compost.
IA

don't worry Jimmy boy it's nothing personal he pulled the same crap (can I say that here) with me I got bags of his finished product but no raw stuff for woims and even inspected the entire operation and found no snakeskins but I was moving so fast I might have stepped on a live one and not noticed. Got a bunch of water lettuce and that sounds like the real future "oil" , snakes not even included for this charlatan or is the word chameleon. Only thing I know is that I'll throw my money his way when it comes to his products. Hell he even has it together enough to have Duroc hogs that will be just perfect in color to manage the warm tropical suns for my free range swimming hogs cycle of the year for the small farm, should finish the perimeter klong/fence before the rainy season hits I hope. Hogs, plants from water bogs, composts and teas to set your plants free, I'll put my faith in this healer of the land and soul, seller of oils of snake and castings of worms that shake. I loaded the Ford "custom" "Rung" wagon with the compost bags and worm castings and had it a half meter high on the roof (I'll haul 50% more next time I and the compost are available and will end up paying full wholesale price, I imagine, because the first deal was way too good (I'm sure part of the snake oil tradesman policy, sell it low make it the best and if they write something good and come back again and again to buy more hey maybe you're doing something right) on my side (heck a fire as dey all say dis boy so deeeranged he wanted to throw in some fine butchered hog meat for free too before I ran away from him. My daddy told me.......). Anywho I transplanted dozens of rare variety tomatoes, some wild ones included from the American desert land, that I had started on Dec 1. All these went into raise beds that I ammended that day with his "pig bio-char EM" "snake oil" compost with a helpful bunch in each hole. As I am sure Soidog can attest these were not the fittest of specimens but from Hua Hin to Issan they were survivors. Now they are exploding from the ground (according to undisclosed sources) (I'm in the US freezing enroute to the desert of Death Valley) with the corn backing them up and sprouting out of the ground in a few days. An entire previous planting of carrots was a 0% bust and in the same ground with compost we now have completely successful germination and fast growth. i can't wait for the day that his loader is up again(I/A I got the guy working on the main hydraulics, my clutch man in Prakon Chai, for the Ford and will be in touch when he finishes it up) I'll be able to test it in April, (and oh I'll geev eet a good test or two) working and dozens of pigs a week start to move through, save me a post harvest xmas litter. With that much manure even you and I jim might be able to get a bag or two of unprocessed stuff and hopefully will keep the cost down where it is now and will make the ability to haul 10-100 tons a year a reality. As of now I'll buy every bag I can get my hands on and can stuff into that old Ford wagon, sure would like to customize it into a hot rod flatbed but I/A I don't think I'm as bad a jammer as you are to be able to pull it off but maybe we could do a little trade and you take it for a while and put some jimmy jam on it though I doubt you know that much about autos (a yuk a yukka) Ford loaders full of compost Forever

I will take it from the above you think AIs stuff is ok. I am hoping that after the rains come and there is some Baht coming in, instead of out, I will head over that way and have a look to see what a real farmer does. Jim

#15 Alex5211

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Posted 2011-03-25 22:51:15

I have watched an official movie about Rubber Tree Cultivation made and distributed by the Ministry of Agriculture Thailand.
Their recommandation for fertilizer is N-P-K 20-10-12 for up to 6 years.. the movie did not mention the years after. But I guess it is the same.

This seems to be the only mixture you need (as Chang35 was hinting in his supershort message).

No reason for all the rest except that every company wants to sell something special and they are keeping to make up new formulas.

Kasetsart University seems to make excellent independant research. From what I hear they have a very good reputation.
The movies info was based on their research on rubber trees as I understand.

So far I found only LungArun Brand that has 20-10-12 but I do not know what quality they have.
Quality is a big factor.
The offer is 850 Baht right now for a 50kg Bag - small or big quantity same same.

Prices for other Brands with different mixtures vary between 850-1000 Baht (Katai, Kasethip, Yara)

Can you mix N - P - K yourself? It should be easily possible. Any useful information?
Where are the thai NPK factories? Are there any or is it all import?
any other recommandations, brands or ways to get those rubber trees to do really well?

I can buy 300 bags NPK fertilizer right now. I need at least 100.

#16 Alex5211

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Posted 2011-03-25 23:43:43

20 8 20 for the older rubber, yellow bag with a crown on it, VIV, some call it superman !

I paid 880 a bag today, but its going up and with the libya crisis all fertiliser will skyrocket, perhaps even to 2008 levels of 1400 a bag, so it might be worth buying the whole years supply now. Thats if you have somewhere cool/ shaded and ventilated and safe to store it.


thanks for this..!

storage:
this is the plan to store the fertilizer if possible and buy outside of the main season - but how sensitive are those NPK bags and how long can you store them..?

we do not have an airconditioned warehouse of course but the storage place will be in the shadow

#17 slapout

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Posted 2011-03-26 06:45:37

Store the bags on wooden pallets in a dry covered area and it will last thru the year. You may have a little caking if held longer, but just drop the bag a couple times and it will break up.

#18 Alex5211

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Posted 2011-03-30 22:06:51

Store the bags on wooden pallets in a dry covered area and it will last thru the year. You may have a little caking if held longer, but just drop the bag a couple times and it will break up.


thanks for the storage advice..
we bought 100 bags today and we put it onto something like pallets in a dry house..

NPK formula seems to be:

before tapping rubber: 20-10-12 (about up to 4-5 years)
trees being tapped already: 15-7-18 (for Nongkhai/Isaan ground: "sand with sticky")
old trees (20years and older): 20-8-20

its amazing that not only most of the Nongkhai farmers but also the farangs here seem not to be sure of the necessary NPK mixtures..

#19 davidnz2003

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Posted 2011-04-30 13:35:27

Im very interested to know more about the companies you are dealing with, names and areas if thats ok. Im looking at bringing fertiliser from my country to make available throughout Thailand.
Ours is liquid fertilizer, so its absorbed into the plant quicker and is sprayed onto the leaf directly. Sometimes with ground fertilizer its hit and miss with root delivery.
Ive spent sometime with Ministry of Agr in Bangkok and will be looking at either an existing thai company to distribute or setting a franchise network . Our company has been producing
for 20years and looking to bring a quality product to the Thai market with a fish and veg extract. Would be interested to know how people buy there fertilizer as where I am in Krabi there are no outlet shops
Im in Thailand periodically.

#20 Mobaan

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Posted 2011-05-02 19:19:19

We will be planting rubber this June .The recommendation seems to be to add rockphosphate in the planting hole ?!
I will make the holes with an 8 inch earth auger about 50-60 cm deep . The plan would be to add a cup(?) of rock phsphate and a small bucket of compost to half of the soil that is removed fromt he hole -mixed and filled back to leave about a 30 cm deep hole ( to accomodate the plant ).
The remaing soil would be mixed with another half bucket of compost , mixed and filled around the root when planting.
I would assume that rockphosphate is not as agressive on the young roots as NPK would be -am I correct.

#21 IsaanAussie

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Posted 2011-05-03 07:58:30

We will be planting rubber this June .The recommendation seems to be to add rockphosphate in the planting hole ?!
I will make the holes with an 8 inch earth auger about 50-60 cm deep . The plan would be to add a cup(?) of rock phsphate and a small bucket of compost to half of the soil that is removed fromt he hole -mixed and filled back to leave about a 30 cm deep hole ( to accomodate the plant ).
The remaing soil would be mixed with another half bucket of compost , mixed and filled around the root when planting.
I would assume that rockphosphate is not as agressive on the young roots as NPK would be -am I correct.


Excuse a non-rubber guys opinion but for what it's worth. consider adding biochar to your planting and preparation strategy. Especially if you can get/make biochar that has been activated with a source of nitrogen. I produce high carbon compost from pig manure, rice straw and hulls and using carbonised rice hulls. Pig compost is relatively high in P and K values but normally low in nitrogen as is most compost. This biochar is used to control the smell of the first stage compost, ie. fresh manure and urine, by absorbing the ammonia emission as the pile heats up. This in turn activates the biochar and promotes the growth of healthy microbes which will promote healthy roots sytem which absorb more nutrients from the compost and any fertilisers used and resist disease.
Add biochar in the bottom of the hole and it will be there longer than we will all be around. It acts as a sponge for nitrogen and limits the nutrients leeching below the roots. It also converts much of the nitrogen into more plant useful forms. Net result is a reduction in fertiliser needed.
The same can be said if you prepare the soil around the trees final drip zone by adding biochar and compost. It will wait there for the roots and help with any preliminary intercropping while the trees grow.
Another plus is the biochar will help with water usage by improved the moisture holding capacity of the ground.
You could also look at using a compost or worm casting soil drench when planting to give the young tree a flying start.

Isaan Aussie.

#22 JungleBiker

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Posted 2011-05-03 11:22:26

its amazing that not only most of the Nongkhai farmers but also the farangs here seem not to be sure of the necessary NPK mixtures..


It's not that amazing.

Ideally you should adjust the amounts of N,P and K (and other nutrients - macro and micro) according to an analysis of your soil (every plantation is different). There is a soil testing lab here in Khon Kaen, I don't know about your provinces.

Even better is to also analyze the plant tissue to check the nutrient levels inside the plant and then adjust fertilizer applications accordingly. (Kind of like doing a blood test and adjusting your diet or lifestyle to reduce cholesterol or blood pressure, etc). To do this you need benchmarks to compare against.

Here are some links explaining more about this stuff in relation to rubber - if you take some of the key words (like rubber analysis and nutrition) I am sure you can find much more info:
http://journals.lww....utrition.6.aspx
www.agnet.org/library/eb/398/eb398.pdf

There are special digital pocket meters that you can buy to test some of the key nutrients in plants, e.g. http://www.specmeter...ment/index.html

All of this (soil and plant nutrient analysis) is too advanced for your typical Thai farmer, so that is why the government has come up with some simple general recommendations that are "good enough" for most situations. But this means that in some cases, some nutrients may be deficient (so plant growth will not be optimum) or in surplus (so you are wasting good money buying stuff you don't need).

By the way, the main reason for putting phosphate in the planting hole is because phosphate does not travel easily through the soil. If you put it on the top, it tends to stay on the top (it "bonds" with the soil) and does not go down to the roots.

JB

#23 Mobaan

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Posted 2011-05-04 19:11:26


We will be planting rubber this June .The recommendation seems to be to add rockphosphate in the planting hole ?!
I will make the holes with an 8 inch earth auger about 50-60 cm deep . The plan would be to add a cup(?) of rock phsphate and a small bucket of compost to half of the soil that is removed fromt he hole -mixed and filled back to leave about a 30 cm deep hole ( to accomodate the plant ).
The remaing soil would be mixed with another half bucket of compost , mixed and filled around the root when planting.
I would assume that rockphosphate is not as agressive on the young roots as NPK would be -am I correct.


Excuse a non-rubber guys opinion but for what it's worth. consider adding biochar to your planting and preparation strategy. Especially if you can get/make biochar that has been activated with a source of nitrogen. I produce high carbon compost from pig manure, rice straw and hulls and using carbonised rice hulls. Pig compost is relatively high in P and K values but normally low in nitrogen as is most compost. This biochar is used to control the smell of the first stage compost, ie. fresh manure and urine, by absorbing the ammonia emission as the pile heats up. This in turn activates the biochar and promotes the growth of healthy microbes which will promote healthy roots sytem which absorb more nutrients from the compost and any fertilisers used and resist disease.
Add biochar in the bottom of the hole and it will be there longer than we will all be around. It acts as a sponge for nitrogen and limits the nutrients leeching below the roots. It also converts much of the nitrogen into more plant useful forms. Net result is a reduction in fertiliser needed.
The same can be said if you prepare the soil around the trees final drip zone by adding biochar and compost. It will wait there for the roots and help with any preliminary intercropping while the trees grow.
Another plus is the biochar will help with water usage by improved the moisture holding capacity of the ground.
You could also look at using a compost or worm casting soil drench when planting to give the young tree a flying start.

Isaan Aussie.

Thanks for the reply .
If I understand this correctly you call it biochar- when you mean the carbonized rice hulls. Correct ?
Perhaps by default I have been doing exactly what you are promoting as your sideline business -the composted pig manure.
Currently we have the remnants (composted ) of about 100 bales of rice straw , mixed with the garden refuse and grass clippings and what not from a 3 Rai garden area , mixed with about 30-40 bags of cow manure and about the same amount of charred ricehulls . Composted now for 7 month , turned once -it looks as good as any compost I ever wanted to use in the garden. Does the fact that we used cow and not pig manure make a significant difference? . I could imagine the cow manure not beeing so rich in left over nutrients , but it was 100 % manure , not mixed with straw etc .
It might not be 100 % perfect , but I am sure the rubber plants will do good in it .

#24 IsaanAussie

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Posted 2011-05-05 06:23:28

Mobaan.

Your compost sounds great. What does it smell like? Grab a handful from the centre of the pile and give it a sniff. If it is sweet its good, sour is suspect but can be revitalised. If the compost has dried out completely then it may need to have a wetting agent added before it will absorb water again.

If I understand this correctly you call it biochar- when you mean the carbonized rice hulls. Correct ?
Absolutely correct, one and the same stuff.

Does the fact that we used cow and not pig manure make a significant difference? ... I could imagine the cow manure not being so rich in left over nutrients
After seven months I do not believe there would be a significant difference. Three points however, firstly I use fresh manure and urine that has not leeched. Dry cow manure is usually some months old before it is bagged and will have leeched some nutrient and lost some nitrogen in gaseous emissions. Secondly the animals are different cows being ruminants do not produce manure with potential pathogen issues as do pigs. In the case of pigs the compost must reach at least 60 degrees C for 3 days to kill these off. The third point is aeration. I turn new compost daily to break the components into the smallest pieces possible and ensure thorough mixing including as much oxygen as possible. If it goes anaerobic then it emits smells and produces the bad guy microbes, EM introduces both bacterial and fungal microbes which start/reinforce those in the materials.

As a suggestion take a cubic metre of your compost and get it up to 50 to 60% moisture content with water and EM (1%). Give it a day and then check the temperature in the middle of the pile. Also check the smell against that of the rest. If the pile heats up, there is still plenty of nutrient there. If not, then add a handful of Urea and try again. If the smell is improved (sweeter) then there is a good chance your compost contains anaerobic microbes which could cause issues for the trees if buried in the root system. I find EM microbes usually will out compete their non-aerated counterparts if the compost is turned regularly. You have a large volume of good material, worth a few simple checks to make sure it is as good as can be.

From your description you should have enough CRH in the compost already but it cant hurt to add a shovel full in the bottom of the planting hole.

One sign I use that compost is ready to use is the creatures that inhabit it. Once you start to see slaters and the like on the pile, its good to go. After seven months you should have a compile population of micro-organisms as described on the soilweb site.

IA

#25 fezzy

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Posted 2011-06-13 16:47:54

Hi i guys ive just bouught 25 rai of 7 year old rubber trees which are being tapped by the SiL and family and i was just wondering how often and the amount of fertilizer you would apply , I know that they need NPK and i've read that you should apply at the start of the rains and also at the ends of the rainy season.
The MiL has advised me that we are to fertilize at the end of July start of August and to apply 1 kilo per tree ,
I thought this amount was too much and i'm also wondering if too much NPK can harm the trees aswell ??
My wifes family used to tap rubber down in Chumpon a couple of years ago so i believe what they say. The land they worked had about 4600 trees and they used 80 x 50 kg bags to fertilize them. I'm just trying to get a general consensus of what other rubber farmers are doing as i would hate it if i under fed them or even worsei if i killed them.

cheers thanks in advance
fezzy





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