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[totonjoy]

I do of course defer to Thai experts here, but by the term "executed correctly" in English means "signed and witnessed" correctly. That validates the document in England & Wales. In my experience a valid English Will is usually recognised by foreign Courts, especially if the Will has been proved (by the issuing of a Grant of Probate) in England.

Interpretation of terms seems to be a danger here. Be careful everyone..........and good luck!

Edited by totonjoy, 2011-04-06 02:07:03.

[SweatiePie]

Be careful indeed!

"duly executed" refers to a will that has been properly signed and witnessed so that it is rendered an enforceable, valid legal instrument (done before your death).

"executing the terms of a will" refers to the executor carrying out the wishes of the testator (done after your death).

"correctly executed" is a phrase I have not come across.

KEEP IT SIMPLE - legalese is no more necessary in your will than it is here!!

Edited by SweatiePie, 2011-04-08 01:06:07.

[prk888]

looking at all the comments in this very useful thread it seems that the following might be a sample, simple Will.  Thanks to all contributors.  No doubt some of  this will be wrong too!

Last Will & Testament of XXXX

This Will is made by me XXXX holder of British Passport No: XXXX issued at XXXX  England on XXXX  & expiring on XXXX and currently living at XXXX  Kingdom of Thailand and I declare this to be my Last Will and Testament.

I revoke all former Wills and Testaments relating to my property and other assets in Thailand.



I: Expenses & Payment of Debts
I direct my Administrator to pay any debts, any outstanding medical bills, funeral expenses, any taxes rightfully due and the expenses of administering my estate.



II: My Complete Estate
I give (i) all my Thai property over which I have any disposing power at the time of my death and (ii) all my other Thai assets including, bank accounts, cash, automobiles, any proceeds of insurance policies covering such property to my wife XXXX holder of Thai ID Card # XXXX.  

If she does not survive me I give the Thai property and all the other Thai assets to XXXX



III: Administrator
I appoint my wife XXXX as Administrator of this Will.  

If she is unable or unwilling to act I appoint XXXX holder of Thai ID card # XXXX (or passport number if farang) to act as Administrator.

If she is unable or unwilling to act then I appoint XXXX holder of XXXX  Passport No. XXXX (or Thai ID card number)  to act as Administrator.

My Administrator shall have all the powers allowable to an Administrator under the laws of this country. I direct that no bond or security of any kind shall be required of my Administrator.


I have signed this will this ………….…… day of …………..……..  2011 .


……………………………………………..

Name:  XXXX

SIGNED AND DECLARED by XXXX to be his Will in our presence who at his request and in his presence and in the presence of each other all being present at the same time have signed our names as witnesses.


………………………………………………………………………………….
(Signature & Thai ID number or passport number)


………………………………………………………………………………….

(Signature & Thai ID number or passport number)

[LukDod]

SweatiePie, on 2011-04-05 23:23:44, said:

...<snipped>...'I should also point out that unless your solicitor is also the executor/administrator of your will (something I would avoid personally)...'

SweetiePie,
Your reply brings up my question:
I'd like my brother-in-law, a trial lawyer whom I implicitly trust, to function as the executor. My sister will be listed as primary beneficiary and
he as secondary beneficiary, should she not survive.
As he, like myself is a US citizen, would there be a problem for him to communicate with the Thai courts as he doesn't speak Thai??

Thank you

[gerry53]

Gerry53, apart from your bike a will may not be necessary for the accounts; most banks here allow you to name a beneficiary in the event of your death. If you prefer a will then keep it simple , unlike the example here, and if any lawyer wants more than 7,000 baht go elsewhere; 3,000 baht for a simple will in Thai and English (all my property in Thailand ..... to Miss xxx xxxx, Id card number 12345678) is not unreasonable and is readily available. Sorry I can't recommend a lawyer, but that could be construed as "self serving".

NALAK, I am the OP and when I inquired at the Kasikorn Bank they said I can not just add her as a beneficary, she would have to become joint owner and have full signing authority and I am not prepared to do that at this point.  The Bank claims should I die they would contact my embassy and they would send the money to my country so it could be dispersed as per my will there???  I am not saying this is true but what the K Bank in Jomtien told me.

[SweatiePie]

LukDod, on 2011-04-10 16:35:43, said:

SweatiePie, on 2011-04-05 23:23:44, said:

...<snipped>...'I should also point out that unless your solicitor is also the executor/administrator of your will (something I would avoid personally)...'

SweetiePie,
Your reply brings up my question:
I'd like my brother-in-law, a trial lawyer whom I implicitly trust, to function as the executor. My sister will be listed as primary beneficiary and
he as secondary beneficiary, should she not survive.
As he, like myself is a US citizen, would there be a problem for him to communicate with the Thai courts as he doesn't speak Thai??

Thank you

LD, you can name anyone you like as your executor/administrator. It doesn't make any difference if they can speak Thai or not (although if they can't you will need a Thai lawyer to represent you in court, for which they will charge a fee, so that you can be registered as the administrator); the process is very simple and, usually,  very brief. The important thing is that you trust them, not whether they are a lawyer, can speak Thai, etc.

[BlackJack]

try thai888.com
english and Thai documents
fast efficient service

[gerry53]

I am the O/P and had a will drawn up by a local lawyer on Theppasit Rd (near Soi 10) for a 5,000 baht fee.  This included 4 copies in English and Thai, one each for lawyer, executor, alternate executor and myself - all sealed.  I thought the fee was reasonable as it included about 2 1/2 hours of consultation.  I appreciate others recommendations but I felt more comfortable with a lawyer familiar with Thai and the legal system here drawing up my will.  I had mentioned peviously my bank would not just add her as a beneficiary, she would have to have full signing rights!  The will is a very detailed 8 page document leaving no doubt of my possessions and allowing for future possessions should I aquire a new car or motorcycle.  Identities were well proven with passports, Thai IDs and supporting documents and should I die I am comfortable my wishes will be carried out.  Should I and my girlfriend die I am confident the alternate executor will proceed with my wishes.     Thanks to all.  

[melvinmelvin]

totonjoy, on 2011-04-05 01:18:16, said:

I am a (retired) Will writer with over 25 years experience with a UK firm of Solicitors. To put it simply, if you are a "Western"  expat you must make a Will, drawn up by a Western lawyer in English. He will make sure it contains your required provisions and that it is executed correctly. Translations may be necessary after your demise, but the document itself will almost certainly be recognised by foreign Courts.

Of course, nothing is 100% certain, as you are all well aware. This is Thailand after all, but I believe my suggestion is the best course.

?????????????????????

When you say Western, I take it you mean UK?

What you say above certainly does not apply to "Western" countries in general.

[Spaniel]

How is this for simple.   I have a condo in Pattaya registered in my name and a bank account at Bangkok Bank in Bangkok.  All other assets are in the USA and I have a proper stateside will.    I want to leave the condo to my 21 y/o son and the bank account to my Thai wife.    Dispensing with all the "legaliese" would this do it:

Upon my death, I xxxxxxxxx leave my condo in Pattaya located at xxxxxxxxx to my son xxxxxxxxx, Thai ID # xxxxxx.   And my Bangkok Bank account #xxxxxxxxx located at Bangkok Bank Ltd address xxxxxxx to my wife xxxxxxxxx, Thai ID #xxxxxx.

If either should predecease me then the entire estate will go to the survivor.   I appoint my wife, xxxxxxxx, as the executor of my estate.

Will take this to one of the translation services to put it in Thai, get a couple of witnesses and sign it.   Couldn't possibly get any simpler but is it legal?

[Spaniel]

Suppose I were to die with no Thai will.   How would my wife/son legally get the condo and access my bank account?

[gerry53]

Spaniel, on 2011-05-14 11:58:04, said:

Suppose I were to die with no Thai will.   How would my wife/son legally get the condo and access my bank account?

I am no fan of lawyers in any country but with your assets a 5,000 baht investment in a lawyer for consultation, 4 copies written in both languages to fufill your wishes seems cheap.   The legal system in my home country confuses the h_ll out of me, here it is mind boggling.  Having a will drawn up by myself tucked under my pillow would not allow me to sleep very well.

[SolarOhm]

Forget Wills. They are for Dead People - trying to rule from the grave.

Establish a holding vehicle now - before you die. Transfer your assets in to that or even in to life insurance.
The only things that you do not need in the holding vehicle are your immediate cash requirements and personal use assets.
Don't sweat the small change - such as motor bikes, just pre-sign the transfer documents for those so your spouse etc. can sell them when you go, or consider transferring them to her in advance.

You do not  want investment assets to be subject to capital gains tax when they are transferred out of your estate and have appreciated - so transfer each to an appropriate vehicle in advance, and before there is considerable appreciation. You can maintain control of such assets via a lifetime loan - which can be held in joint names of you and your wife (if you trust her) - as joint tenants; meaning the survivor has title, and the dead guy leaves no estate interest in the loans)

PM me for a sit down meeting in Bangkok if you want more info.

[gerry53]

SolarOhm, on 2011-07-14 12:04:50, said:

Forget Wills. They are for Dead People - trying to rule from the grave.

Establish a holding vehicle now - before you die. Transfer your assets in to that or even in to life insurance.
The only things that you do not need in the holding vehicle are your immediate cash requirements and personal use assets.
Don't sweat the small change - such as motor bikes, just pre-sign the transfer documents for those so your spouse etc. can sell them when you go, or consider transferring them to her in advance.

You do not  want investment assets to be subject to capital gains tax when they are transferred out of your estate and have appreciated - so transfer each to an appropriate vehicle in advance, and before there is considerable appreciation. You can maintain control of such assets via a lifetime loan - which can be held in joint names of you and your wife (if you trust her) - as joint tenants; meaning the survivor has title, and the dead guy leaves no estate interest in the loans)

PM me for a sit down meeting in Bangkok if you want more info.

Please don't expect a meeting with me, your solution sounds too complex.  Of course wills are for dead people trying to provide assistance to people they care about.  I am not stupid enough to transfer my assets to a girlfriend who may not be with me in 6 months (no indication of this but we are in Thailand) -  I protect my assets.  I don't rule from the grave as you put it but if I am dead I won't have any need for my Thai assets.  How much do you charge for your "solution"?

[SolarOhm]

gerry53, on 2011-07-16 14:28:15, said:

SolarOhm, on 2011-07-14 12:04:50, said:

Forget Wills. They are for Dead People - trying to rule from the grave.

Establish a holding vehicle now - before you die. Transfer your assets in to that or even in to life insurance.
The only things that you do not need in the holding vehicle are your immediate cash requirements and personal use assets.
Don't sweat the small change - such as motor bikes, just pre-sign the transfer documents for those so your spouse etc. can sell them when you go, or consider transferring them to her in advance.

You do not  want investment assets to be subject to capital gains tax when they are transferred out of your estate and have appreciated - so transfer each to an appropriate vehicle in advance, and before there is considerable appreciation. You can maintain control of such assets via a lifetime loan - which can be held in joint names of you and your wife (if you trust her) - as joint tenants; meaning the survivor has title, and the dead guy leaves no estate interest in the loans)

PM me for a sit down meeting in Bangkok if you want more info.

Solutions depend on the actual circumstances and how involved your financial affairs are.
It is impossible to tell remotely - so if we never meet there can never be a solution - just a few suggestions as to the direction you should go in.
If you care to schedule a face to face at my office the first meeting can be at no charge for the first half hour. If it is at your office there will be a charge (payable up front for the traveling time)


Please don't expect a meeting with me, your solution sounds too complex.  Of course wills are for dead people trying to provide assistance to people they care about.  I am not stupid enough to transfer my assets to a girlfriend who may not be with me in 6 months (no indication of this but we are in Thailand) -  I protect my assets.  I don't rule from the grave as you put it but if I am dead I won't have any need for my Thai assets.  How much do you charge for your "solution"?

[poanoi]

Quote

This will is made by me xxxxxxxxx

I revoke all former wills and testamentary depositions.

I appoint xxxxxxxxxx to be sole executor of this my will.

I give all my property and funds worldwide to which I may be entitled or  over which I have any disposing power at the time of my death, after my  funeral and testamentary expenses and any taxes rightfully due, to  xxxxxxxxxx ID card number xxxxxxxxxxx.

In the event of the prior death of xxxxxxxxxx I give all such property to xxxxxxxxxxx.

I like that simplicity, and would only want to add one phrase my uncle used in his testament,
i'm not native english but i hope the gist of the translation goes through:

That which beneficiary receive from this testament shall, as well as the profit thereof,
remain private property in the event of marriage.
This property shall also not be part of division in case of separation.

Oh, and of course location & witness

Pattaya 2011-07-25 .....................

Witness

Edited by poanoi, 2011-07-24 02:59:32.

[prk888]

UPDATE
just registered my Will at the Banlamung Office next door to Police Station.  Simple process if papers are correct.  Need a medical certificate.  
A word of warning though.  If you specify specific assets (eg car, house, condo, motor bike etc,)  then they can ask for the supporting associated paperwork.  Keeping the  Will generic and non-specific (eg any automobiles, any bank accounts, any  property etc) then no extra supporting paperwork needed.  They also insisted in having 2 Thai witnesses to witness both the Thai and English versions.  Sealed the Will and retained it at their Office.  Cost B20.

[coralia]

If a person living in Thailand on a retirement visa dies,what happens to the 800.000 Bt. that person had transferred to Thailand? Should that be dealt with in a will? Or do the children (assuming there is no wife/husband) inherit the money automatically? And in that case, can they take the money out of Thailand?

[penwithchris]

On this question of Wills, what would happen if I was legally married to and living in Thailand with my Thai wife, and she was to die intestate. Would her assets, which are composed of a house and land in her sole name, automatically devolve to me as her spouse? We have no children.

[schlog]

prk888, on 2011-08-22 22:01:50, said:

UPDATE
just registered my Will at the Banlamung Office next door to Police Station.  Simple process if papers are correct.  Need a medical certificate.  
A word of warning though.  If you specify specific assets (eg car, house, condo, motor bike etc,)  then they can ask for the supporting associated paperwork.  Keeping the  Will generic and non-specific (eg any automobiles, any bank accounts, any  property etc) then no extra supporting paperwork needed.  They also insisted in having 2 Thai witnesses to witness both the Thai and English versions.  Sealed the Will and retained it at their Office.  Cost B20.

Medical certificate is necessary if you are 60 years up.

[Phil Conners]

Hm, sounds complicated and expensive for our situation.  No complicated issues, never married before, no other people in the world who might dispute anything, our daughter who is not yet at legal age.  Why does it need to be so complicated?  

Can we just write "I leave everything to my wife/husband" and sign it at the amphur? (my wife is for practical reasons listed as owner of car, bike etc. so in case she was to depart first it would just make sense to do the will both ways).

[Tropicalevo]

penwithchris, on 2011-09-06 14:51:58, said:

On this question of Wills, what would happen if I was legally married to and living in Thailand with my Thai wife, and she was to die intestate. Would her assets, which are composed of a house and land in her sole name, automatically devolve to me as her spouse? We have no children.

I am definitely not an expert on this, but there is no way that you will get the land. You probably will not get the house either as that needs approval from a government department. (Sorry - I cannot remember which one.)

Please take legal advise on this one (and not from a family friend).

[sandgroper2]

SweatiePie, on 2011-04-05 23:23:44, said:

Totonjoy, agreed - your will should be in your native language (although not necessarily "English" for all "Western expats") unless you can read and write fluent Thai, as I explained above at some length.    It does not, however, have to be made by a lawyer (Western or Thai) and if it is made by a "Western lawyer" you should ensure that he is versed in Thai law - there are considerable differences, such as the trust laws which I touched on briefly, and a "Western lawyer" may not be aware of these.

I should also point out that unless your solicitor is also the executor/administrator of your will (something I would avoid personally, unless you have no option as well as no friends) he will not "make sure ..... that it is executed correctly". If you have only paid him to draw up your will that is where his responsibilities begin and end; anything done with it after your demise is up to your administrator.


NALAK, I don't know which solicitor you finally used, but you did name a lawyer on 14 March; you are definitely not using me - most of my legal work is pro-bono, but when I charge my minimum fee to simply look at a case is 7 figures (baht).

1000000 bt, you must be in  great demand.

[doofus]

Berkshire Legal (http://bbgi.asia/leg...es/will-writing) do professional wills for expatriates for less than 10,000 baht if I'm not mistaken. They've recently established a presence in Pattaya after several years in BKK. They are also doing a promotion on legal services here: http://shar.es/Wz7uQ

Disclosure: I know the boss at Berkshire but I have no stake in his business.

[Bagwan]

My wife and I have both made wills drawn up by a Thai lawyer leaving everything inThailand to each other. My wife has to survive me by 28 days or our estates are shared equally by her two children, or held in trust by my wife's brother until they reach the age of 25 years. Our house is owned by a company of which myself, my wife and her daughter are directors. My understanding is that since the wills were properly drawn up and witnessed then there is no requirement for them to be registered at the Banglamung Amphur. Our properties in Lomsak and our vehicles are already registered in my wife's name.

To get round potential problems with UK banks I had a friend send out a Will form sold by W.H.Smith and completed and signed it with two witnesses, neither of whom are beneficiaries, and sent copies to the banks. They have been instructed to transfer the credit balances to her Thai bank account on receipt of my Death Certificate. I have already obtained and completed the forms to be sent to the Department of Works and Pensions in the UK to claim Death Benefit and a reduced pension for 12 months so that all she has to do is sign and date them.  

In the event of my death who is going to ask to see a copy of my Thai will? Cannot my wife simply use my ATM card to transfer the credit balances from my Thai bank acounts into her own? Who will be the enquiring minds into anything if the banks are not informed of my demise?

The Thai lawyer who drew up our wills made it plain that he was not prepared to act as administrator of Executor and advised us not to engage another Thai lawyer to act in such a capacity. He stated that it was likely that the lawyer would end up with more money in his pocket than he shared out. He took his stance as he was not sure that he would be able to resist the temptation to enrich himself from the estate.

I handled the financial affairs of both my parents when they died intestate and nobody asked any questions or worried me about obtaining probate. So why the fuss?