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[jaideeguy]

My pool has been a neglected eyesore for a couple of years now....due to my laziness and personal economic situation and the increased costs of pool supplies and chems.

Now, I'm considering selling the property with pool and I know that the value added by restoring my pool may be recovered.  

I gave up on the pool when the calcium buildup on tiles became so unsightly and I didn't want to drain and chip off the tiles like I had done before.....terrible nasty job using HCL and scrapers.  I posted my delima a year ago and got some tips that I am ready to persue  http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/359911-sandblasting-a-tile-pool/

The advise that I am going with is from Buckhumyai

"Unfortunately Acid is really the only suitable treatment available for calcium scale. There are chemical companies developing various products however they are more maintenance based then a cure for an existing problem. Obviously I have not seen the pool but depending on just how bad it is, a lazy option our company use over winter when no one is swimming is to pour 20L Acid straight into the water and let it slowly dissolve the calcium over a few days whilst brushing each day. Eventually it will loosen and come off the wall and start to fall to the bottom or dissolve into the water. If you maintain a very low pH the water begins to re absorb the calcium. It is then a matter of filtering as much calcium out of the pool as you can and then rebalancing the water. I usually drain at least half the water and replace it with fresh water.
The fact you have had to do this before suggests you have high calcium in your water and you must maintain your pH at 7.2 - 7.6 or you will face this problem continually"

I might add that since my old post, I borrowed a TDS meter and tested several different water sources.  
A near by lake measured 125ppm
the klong that feeds the lake and runs by our house from the ricefields measured 115ppm [ph7]
our well water that I have always used to top off the pool measured 850ppm [ph7]
the pool now diluted by 2 yrs of rain water measured 250ppm[ph7]

So, it's a 'no brainer' as to which water source to use and I don't think that any trace agricultural chems in the klong water will be a problem, right??

Now, if I go with Buckhumyai's suggestion and add the acid, wait a few days and totally drain the pool asap because the klong water is now flowing fast to be used to replace my high calcium pool water before they stop the flow at the end of the rice season.

My question is ......since I am going to drain the pool and refill it, then there is no need to chlorinate it before, right??
or vaccum to waste all the debris that has accumulated over the years would be a waste of labor, right?.....just sweep/shovel it out after drained, right??.  

Obviously my intention is to save as much money and labor as possible.....acid is cheap and decent water is available [now].

A few final questions......how much HCL @ 33% acid should I use in my 84 cu mt pool to remove the calcium, but not the grout??  and how many days should i leave it before I drain it before it damages the grout??
and/or can I monitor the ph while adding the acid in stages??  What would be the ideal ph for cleaning calcium??

[buckhumyai]

Hi Jaideeguy

Nice to see you are getting around to looking at the pool at last. LOL

It seems obvious that your well water is very high in calcium, which has caused the scale. It is good that you have identified the problem and have a way around it.

Ok. To answer your questions.

Usually on a badly scaled pool we would drain the water and then acid wash the walls directly. Dilute the acid 10:1 and apply it directly to the walls with a watering can or the like and start scrubbing. It is a horrible messy job but usually very effective. Hose it all down, scoop as much out as you can and then refill the pool straight away. However the process I described before works very well also.

The acid will remove the calcium long before it has had time to attack the grout to any degree.  The trick is to only leave the acid in the pool water until it has done the job of removing the scale. Whether that is 1 day or 3 will vary from pool to pool depending how entrenched the scale has become. Just remember to keep scrubbing.

No real need to vac to waste or chlorinate beforehand just be sure to super chlorinate after refilling the pool with about 2kg chlorine for an 85000L pool.

I personally would pour the whole 20L into the pool and start brushing straight away.  Keep an eye on it and drain it as soon as the job is done.  There is no ideal pH for cleaning calcium, any pH below 7 will absorb calcium. The lower the pH the faster the rate of reaction and the quicker the job is done.

In a nutshell, just pour the 20L acid in and start brushing. Drain the pool when the walls are scale free. Easy. You won't hurt anything as long as you dont leave it more than a few days.

[jaideeguy]

Thanks Buck for the quick reply.  I think that I will go with your plan B, as I have done it the other way and it was one of the worst projects I've ever done.....hot sun, acid fumes and calcium chips flying into your eyes.......4 men/3 days.
Even if I do etch into the grout a little, re-grouting is much easier than the first option.

I may add the acid this afternoon and line up a couple of 2 inch submersable pumps to quickly refill the pool.

I do remember another issue that I had just before giving up on the pool.....the 'dreaded black algae' in a couple of spots.....but that may have resolved it's self over time or hopefully the acid will do it in.  Because of the dirty water, I haven't been able to monitor it, but what if it is still there after acid treatment and drained pool?? could I treat it directly with copper sulfate??  or any other tricks??

Will post results....thanks again.

[jaideeguy]

24 hrs since I added 20lt of HCL and set valve to recirculate to evenly distribute the nasty stuff.  Checked the ph with my test strips and the ph dropped from 7 to 6.  Hard to properly brush the surface with all the green algae.....visability only 1 ft,so I have been working on the steps and see no results yet.  Buck.....will the calcium scale just flake off or soften to make removal easier??  It is quite thick over all.....as thick as a heavy coat of paint and still hard as glass.
If no results after a couple of days, should I add more acid??

[jaideeguy]

Now 72 hrs since acid tx and no noticable change in hardness of scale or PH....still @ 6.  It seems that the first 22 lt drum of HCL brought the PH down a notch......should I add another drum to bring it dwon to 5 and see if that starts the disolving of the scale??   What harm can it do??

I can drain the pool in an hour or so and another factor is that the clock is ticking on the klong water, as the rice is maturing and they will shut it down shortly.

Buck, your theory sounds good, but google doesn't confirm it by many sites. Unless I hear a reply to the contrary, tomorrow I'll add the other 22 lt of acid.

To test the hardness of the scale, I have been testing on the steps with a piece of broken tile and so far.....same same.

[pauljones]

Hire  some boys in the neighborhood and try this.
http://www.amazon.co...R/dp/B00407U5XQ

Edited by pauljones, 2011-04-25 10:59:23.

[jaideeguy]

pauljones, on 2011-04-25 10:55:46, said:

Hire  some boys in the neighborhood and try this.
http://www.amazon.co...R/dp/B00407U5XQ

I have tried pumice stones, chisels, paint scrapers, steel whol and as suggested by the pool dr.....a broken piece of tile.  The last time I tried it with pool drained it took 5 adults 5 days of hard work and that was with the aid of 30% acid HCL.  I am now considering just painting over the tiles with the calcium glaze that is as hard as glass, but rough enough for a paint to stick.  
Any suggestions for a paint that can be obtained locally and would hold up to the chems of a swimming pool??
Thanks for the suggestion

[pauljones]

5 days-5 people to scrub the pool? Go for it.
That's reasonable compared to painting I bet.

[Naam]

Quote

I am now considering just painting over the tiles with the calcium glaze that is as hard as glass, but rough enough for a paint to stick. Any suggestions for a paint that can be obtained locally and would hold up to the chems of a swimming pool?

my suggestion = forget about paint!

[fdimike]

Jaidee Guy

I believe you should be using muriatic acid and not hydrochloric acid (HCL).  Muriatic is available from The Pool Doctors pool supply.  tel 0897720148 or 029524591.  Ask to speak with Gil or visit their web site at:    http://www.thepooldoctorsthailand.com/index.php

I hope this helps

[Naam]

fdimike, on 2011-04-29 20:45:01, said:

Jaidee Guy

I believe you should be using muriatic acid and not hydrochloric acid (HCL).  Muriatic is available from The Pool Doctors pool supply.  tel 0897720148 or 029524591.  Ask to speak with Gil or visit their web site at:    http://www.thepooldoctorsthailand.com/index.php

I hope this helps

muriatic acid IS what Americans call hydrochloric acid! in the U.S. a bunch of other "indigenous" expressions exist for various chemicals but the correct formula is always used and applied. example "sodium chloride" which is actually "natrium chloride" (NaCl). nonsensical remarks on food stuff and drinks such as "sodium free" only add to bullshitting and confusion because what is called "sodium free" is nothing but "salt free".

[thaimat]

I agree with JG, call Gil at the Pool Doctor, very experienced and professional.  He just changed my pool over to salt water, after doing the same for a friend.  Perfect work and service, well trained and disciplined crew.  A rare gem here.

fdimike, on 2011-04-29 20:45:01, said:

Jaidee Guy

I believe you should be using muriatic acid and not hydrochloric acid (HCL).  Muriatic is available from The Pool Doctors pool supply.  tel 0897720148 or 029524591.  Ask to speak with Gil or visit their web site at:    http://www.thepooldo...d.com/index.php

I hope this helps

[thaimat]

thaimat, on 2011-04-30 08:15:06, said:

I agree with JG, call Gil at the Pool Doctor, very experienced and professional.  He just changed my pool over to salt water, after doing the same for a friend.  Perfect work and service, well trained and disciplined crew.  A rare gem here.

fdimike, on 2011-04-29 20:45:01, said:

Jaidee Guy

I believe you should be using muriatic acid and not hydrochloric acid (HCL).  Muriatic is available from The Pool Doctors pool supply.  tel 0897720148 or 029524591.  Ask to speak with Gil or visit their web site at: http://www.thepooldo...d.com/index.php

I hope this helps

My chlorinator quit after 6 months of use. I called "the doctor" 10 times, emailed twice, with no response. So I called Graham at Bangkok Pools, bangkokpools.com, whose staff came right out, diagnosed the problem, and got my pool back to perfect. They did everything they said, exactly when they said, kept me informed of their very reasonable prices in advance, their engineer who came even spoke English. All in all, they were perfect, and I highly recommend them. Top quality service, perfectly professional, both so rare here.

[AllanB]

thaimat, on 2012-01-03 11:45:41, said:

thaimat, on 2011-04-30 08:15:06, said:

I agree with JG, call Gil at the Pool Doctor, very experienced and professional.  He just changed my pool over to salt water, after doing the same for a friend.  Perfect work and service, well trained and disciplined crew.  A rare gem here.

fdimike, on 2011-04-29 20:45:01, said:

Jaidee Guy

I believe you should be using muriatic acid and not hydrochloric acid (HCL).  Muriatic is available from The Pool Doctors pool supply.  tel 0897720148 or 029524591.  Ask to speak with Gil or visit their web site at: http://www.thepooldo...d.com/index.php

I hope this helps

My chlorinator quit after 6 months of use. I called "the doctor" 10 times, emailed twice, with no response. So I called Graham at Bangkok Pools, bangkokpools.com, whose staff came right out, diagnosed the problem, and got my pool back to perfect. They did everything they said, exactly when they said, kept me informed of their very reasonable prices in advance, their engineer who came even spoke English. All in all, they were perfect, and I highly recommend them. Top quality service, perfectly professional, both so rare here.

So what did they do and if it is not an indelicate question, what did they charge?

[WarpSpeed]

thaimat, on 2012-01-03 11:45:41, said:

thaimat, on 2011-04-30 08:15:06, said:

I agree with JG, call Gil at the Pool Doctor, very experienced and professional.  He just changed my pool over to salt water, after doing the same for a friend.  Perfect work and service, well trained and disciplined crew.  A rare gem here.

fdimike, on 2011-04-29 20:45:01, said:

Jaidee Guy

I believe you should be using muriatic acid and not hydrochloric acid (HCL).  Muriatic is available from The Pool Doctors pool supply.  tel 0897720148 or 029524591.  Ask to speak with Gil or visit their web site at: http://www.thepooldo...d.com/index.php

I hope this helps

My chlorinator quit after 6 months of use. I called "the doctor" 10 times, emailed twice, with no response. So I called Graham at Bangkok Pools, bangkokpools.com, whose staff came right out, diagnosed the problem, and got my pool back to perfect. They did everything they said, exactly when they said, kept me informed of their very reasonable prices in advance, their engineer who came even spoke English. All in all, they were perfect, and I highly recommend them. Top quality service, perfectly professional, both so rare here.

A bit of a contradiction there innit? Hope this new company is again what you expect 6 months down the road.. Wish I had the inspiration and initiative to begin a pool company when I first got here 10 years ago but after 25 years it just didn't inspire me to begin all over again, but it certainly seems my style of customer service would have gone over pretty well here. Of course I never had any plans to be here for 10 years either..

[pauljones]

Results of the cleanup?