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[jubby]

I'll have to pass on that Scotbeve.    I'm in the middle of an ecomonic mismanagement on a par with one of your fellow scots.  
Gordon the moron I think they call him.  

[scotbeve]

jubby, on 2011-05-25 11:46:04, said:

I'll have to pass on that Scotbeve.    I'm in the middle of an ecomonic mismanagement on a par with one of your fellow scots.  
Gordon the moron I think they call him.  

Oh no!!! He couldn't be the same..... All I can say is good luck if it is him!!! (I'm a Yanqui BTW....)

[thoongfoned]

kwonitoy, on 2011-05-24 12:54:24, said:

tothemark, on 2011-05-23 17:06:18, said:

jamescollister, on 2011-05-23 14:41:52, said:

FIRE and WEED CONTROL
                      You have now entered into an on going war with grass and weeds, Scrub cutters [weed wackers] will be constantly on the go and you will need to poison.

Nice one Jim, i am sure this thread will keep getting bumped if it doesnt get pinned.

With you mentioning weed killer (poison) are you using Glysophate (roundup) or have you another method besides brushcutting ?

I use Glysophate to control the grass and weeds but not untill the trees are 4 years of age. It takes usually 3 applications of the stuff and I don't go anywhere near it. I have one guy that is very experienced in using it and I let him get on with it. Up untill 4 years I can cultivate between the rows with the tractor and hire people to hand weed between the trees.
See photo of six year old trees, no weeds or grass

hi,

great too see that rubber is getting the attention it deserves here!

alot hard work has gone into the workings of your plantation, the ground and the trees look very good. what is the circumference of the better trees in this plantation?

the few people who i know that are tapping at present all started on trees that were 7+ years old but were at best 45cm at around a metre from the ground. have always thought that waiting for the magic 50cm was best, what do you all think/ size started at if tapping already?

from what i can see most tapping starts above the 80cm mark on the tree, but i have seen some people that have started very close too the ground say around 40-50cm high on good sized trees that would be 50cm+ at 1metre from the gound, any ideas on this???

[David006]

thoongfoned, on 2011-05-25 19:38:15, said:

kwonitoy, on 2011-05-24 12:54:24, said:

tothemark, on 2011-05-23 17:06:18, said:

jamescollister, on 2011-05-23 14:41:52, said:

FIRE and WEED CONTROL
                      You have now entered into an on going war with grass and weeds, Scrub cutters [weed wackers] will be constantly on the go and you will need to poison.

Nice one Jim, i am sure this thread will keep getting bumped if it doesnt get pinned.

With you mentioning weed killer (poison) are you using Glysophate (roundup) or have you another method besides brushcutting ?

I use Glysophate to control the grass and weeds but not untill the trees are 4 years of age. It takes usually 3 applications of the stuff and I don't go anywhere near it. I have one guy that is very experienced in using it and I let him get on with it. Up untill 4 years I can cultivate between the rows with the tractor and hire people to hand weed between the trees.
See photo of six year old trees, no weeds or grass

hi,

great too see that rubber is getting the attention it deserves here!

alot hard work has gone into the workings of your plantation, the ground and the trees look very good. what is the circumference of the better trees in this plantation?

the few people who i know that are tapping at present all started on trees that were 7+ years old but were at best 45cm at around a metre from the ground. have always thought that waiting for the magic 50cm was best, what do you all think/ size started at if tapping already?

from what i can see most tapping starts above the 80cm mark on the tree, but i have seen some people that have started very close too the ground say around 40-50cm high on good sized trees that would be 50cm+ at 1metre from the gound, any ideas on this???

I add my congrats to you Jim on your humorous and informative primer...
..wifey and in laws have just this week opened up another 600+ trees and they seem to have started at the 800 to one metre level on 45+ cm trees...growth rate seems all over the map in some rows unfortunately...(we bought this part of the farm with these trees at about 3yo).

Wifey et al tapped 3 on 1 off on the mature trees on another part of the farm..now doing the same on new ones.

On the subject of weed control , I read on an Indian state website that clear cut and removal of all weeds/grass is not recommended ( natural moisture retention seemed to be the factor along with erosion)...during all our floods down here thousands of trees on flat land simply fell over due to ground turning to treacle on land with little or no ground cover.
We have sprayed Glyphosphate to get rid of the brush type weeds and now mostly have just that vicious leg cutting grass which we cut every three months or so...seems to grow up behind you as you walk the line though...all that grass mulch has got to be good for the trees methinks. Interestingly some areas just grow some low pretty purple flowered weeds which turn your hands black after you pull a rai or so..lol
Time now to throw some more baht on the ground in the form of fertiliser I guess....
May all your cups runneth over..
cheers
david

[kwonitoy]

thoongfoned, on 2011-05-25 19:38:15, said:

kwonitoy, on 2011-05-24 12:54:24, said:

tothemark, on 2011-05-23 17:06:18, said:

jamescollister, on 2011-05-23 14:41:52, said:

FIRE and WEED CONTROL
                      You have now entered into an on going war with grass and weeds, Scrub cutters [weed wackers] will be constantly on the go and you will need to poison.

Nice one Jim, i am sure this thread will keep getting bumped if it doesnt get pinned.

With you mentioning weed killer (poison) are you using Glysophate (roundup) or have you another method besides brushcutting ?

I use Glysophate to control the grass and weeds but not untill the trees are 4 years of age. It takes usually 3 applications of the stuff and I don't go anywhere near it. I have one guy that is very experienced in using it and I let him get on with it. Up untill 4 years I can cultivate between the rows with the tractor and hire people to hand weed between the trees.
See photo of six year old trees, no weeds or grass

hi,

great too see that rubber is getting the attention it deserves here!

alot hard work has gone into the workings of your plantation, the ground and the trees look very good. what is the circumference of the better trees in this plantation?

the few people who i know that are tapping at present all started on trees that were 7+ years old but were at best 45cm at around a metre from the ground. have always thought that waiting for the magic 50cm was best, what do you all think/ size started at if tapping already?

from what i can see most tapping starts above the 80cm mark on the tree, but i have seen some people that have started very close too the ground say around 40-50cm high on good sized trees that would be 50cm+ at 1metre from the gound, any ideas on this???

On this plot of land (10 rai) the trees are nice and uniform and are an average of 40cms diameter. I have another section that I'll start on this year with some trees being up to 60cms diameter, but its land that we bought already planted and the trees are not so even, kind of a mixed bag of sizes

I'm going to follow the the 50cms diameter, 1 meter off the ground before tapping. I'm expecting to open these trees in two years, although all our neighbors on both sides have begun tapping already. Around our area I see the locals start to cut the trees too young, but they are probably hurting for some payback after 5 or 6 long years of waiting

As I haven't tapped a tree yet this is new territory for me, but we'll start at least 1 meter off the ground

[scotbeve]

Kwon,

That seems to be the general rule of thumb.... I'm going  for 1.5 m up and 50cm girth for first tapping... I can wait. Good luck  on yours!

[jamescollister]

I guess the size of the tree when you start tapping has more to do with the size of your bank balance than the tree. In my case I should have waited another year before we started tapping, but there was no money left and the idea of gainful employment was not on my to do list.  This year we have opened another 600 or there about new trees and stopped tapping about 200 trees that where not doing to well. So keep in mind that just because you open smaller trees it does not mean they are doomed to under producing for ever. You can always stop tapping. As I said earlier tree condition can be more important than tree size. Remember that the size recomended is for Thai farmers and they rarely cut the branches to the 3 metre mark, more often than not only as far as they can reach. Their trees will be shorter with thicker trunks, your trees will be thiner and taller, but probably have more mass. Jim

[tothemark]

jamescollister, on 2011-05-26 17:58:05, said:

Thai farmers  rarely cut the branches to the 3 metre mark, more often than not only as far as they can reach. Their trees will be shorter with thicker trunks, your trees will be thiner and taller, but probably have more mass. Jim

You know what Jim, now that you have said that, what had always puzzled me with our trees has been answered. I had previously put it down to poor early year fertilisers. For the new ones, i will invest in some decent full length loppers.

[scotbeve]

jamescollister, on 2011-05-26 17:58:05, said:

I guess the size of the tree when you start tapping has more to do with the size of your bank balance than the tree. In my case I should have waited another year before we started tapping, but there was no money left and the idea of gainful employment was not on my to do list.  This year we have opened another 600 or there about new trees and stopped tapping about 200 trees that where not doing to well. So keep in mind that just because you open smaller trees it does not mean they are doomed to under producing for ever. You can always stop tapping. As I said earlier tree condition can be more important than tree size. Remember that the size recomended is for Thai farmers and they rarely cut the branches to the 3 metre mark, more often than not only as far as they can reach. Their trees will be shorter with thicker trunks, your trees will be thiner and taller, but probably have more mass. Jim

Now there's a good point. I know of no less than 8 plantation owners who did just that... start too soon.... and tapped what they could frugally. The 2 and rest one rule was thrown out and the new (early) rule was applied to twice a week. Then there's that organic "medicine" applied to the tapped area on it's "days off". Cutting "sucker" branches to 2 - 2.5m works well - kind of an in-between tree develops. Scott

[buben]

Thanks Jim
A great primer for us newbies.
Thanks for taking the time.

Buben

[fatfather]

scotbeve, on 2011-05-26 14:45:54, said:

Kwon,

That seems to be the general rule of thumb.... I'm going  for 1.5 m up and 50cm girth for first tapping... I can wait. Good luck  on yours!

That's the way Thai farmers usually go for, if they are not in big need of money. Most "new" farmers start tapping too early. (...hiu stang...)

fatfather

[scotbeve]

fatfather, on 2011-05-27 16:22:59, said:

scotbeve, on 2011-05-26 14:45:54, said:

Kwon,

That seems to be the general rule of thumb.... I'm going  for 1.5 m up and 50cm girth for first tapping... I can wait. Good luck  on yours!

That's the way Thai farmers usually go for, if they are not in big need of money. Most "new" farmers start tapping too early. (...hiu stang...)

fatfather

Indeed fat, indeed.... the greed factor plays a huge role.

[philo]

TY VM for the the initative to make a running page for peope who already have plantantations.

May we hope that the : I told you, I read somewhere... non informing posts will not show. Also may the tread be not plongended by posters who qoute quoetes that qouetes posts that are of miniscule or none value. But most importantly - the season has started - so would like to get to know how much you earn pr. tree/week/month/season. And the history behind that.

Thanks
philo

[chang35baht]

Yes, but no two farms are the same. So it is difficult to make comparisons.
So, I think you should start us off by letting us know how much your farm is making per tree/day/week/month.
Regards,
            Chang35baht.

Edited by chang35baht, 2011-06-01 16:03:44.

[slapout]

As chang says , no two farms are the same. Weather difference over 25 miles can make a huge difference as well as the man who is out there doing the work and buying the materials needed.
I once laughed when a visiting city fellow asked a rancher "how many cows and calves do you have"? The rancher replied, "Would you answer if I asked you how much money you had"? Of course this being Thailand I have been asked both questions too many times to count.

[tothemark]

No comparison between rubber plantations over Thailand would ever be similar.

To compare nett revenues these are just some of the variables that may occur :

1.      Cost of servicing the original purchase price of land, its clearing and sapling price. Allowing for the fact that you could have invested that sum elsewhere.

2.      Different fertiliser costs/mixes and quantities used per rai

3.      Age of trees, height and girth.

4.      Mono cropping or intercropping revenues added back

5.      Different variation of rubber trees, rim 600's,251's etc

6.      Different soils, different drainage, different weather patterns – rain stops tapping (bit like cricket !)

7.      Irrigation techniques and rain guards to increase tapping cycles

8.      Two cut one off, or three cut one off

9.      Three panel tree cut or two panel cut.

10.  Latex inducements or not.

11.  % split with tappers 60/40 less 10% costs,straight 60/40 or straight 50/50

12.  Different market prices, government, middle man or agents.

13.  Daily/weekly/monthly pricing variances

14.  Cup rubber, sheet rubber or smoked sheet prices

15.  Is the nett return per rai or per tree – I know my preference !




The list goes on.

If you really want to find out how your plantation is performing, see how your neighbours comparable farm is doing. Its not about the $ received its all about the Kg's. Then divide the Kg's tapped each month by the number of trees.Simple maths really. It will vary between .7kg per month in the early years toover 1kg per month in later years for Rimm 600's anyway.

[jamescollister]

tothemark, on 2011-06-01 17:57:42, said:

No comparison between rubber plantations over Thailand would ever be similar.

To compare nett revenues these are just some of the variables that may occur :

1.      Cost of servicing the original purchase price of land, its clearing and sapling price. Allowing for the fact that you could have invested that sum elsewhere.

2.      Different fertiliser costs/mixes and quantities used per rai

3.      Age of trees, height and girth.

4.      Mono cropping or intercropping revenues added back

5.      Different variation of rubber trees, rim 600's,251's etc

6.      Different soils, different drainage, different weather patterns – rain stops tapping (bit like cricket !)

7.      Irrigation techniques and rain guards to increase tapping cycles

8.      Two cut one off, or three cut one off

9.      Three panel tree cut or two panel cut.

10.  Latex inducements or not.

11.  % split with tappers 60/40 less 10% costs,straight 60/40 or straight 50/50

12.  Different market prices, government, middle man or agents.

13.  Daily/weekly/monthly pricing variances

14.  Cup rubber, sheet rubber or smoked sheet prices

15.  Is the nett return per rai or per tree – I know my preference !




The list goes on.

If you really want to find out how your plantation is performing, see how your neighbours comparable farm is doing. Its not about the $ received its all about the Kg's. Then divide the Kg's tapped each month by the number of trees.Simple maths really. It will vary between .7kg per month in the early years toover 1kg per month in later years for Rimm 600's anyway.

Very well put, I shake my head and laugh ever time I see someone write and say , I am planting x number of Rai how much money will I make. The anwser is probably nothing because they haven't a clue whay they are getting into. Jim

[scotbeve]

slapout, on 2011-06-01 16:29:31, said:

As chang says , no two farms are the same. Weather difference over 25 miles can make a huge difference as well as the man who is out there doing the work and buying the materials needed.
I once laughed when a visiting city fellow asked a rancher "how many cows and calves do you have"? The rancher replied, "Would you answer if I asked you how much money you had"? Of course this being Thailand I have been asked both questions too many times to count.

Agreed, slapout plus all the other variables: how much fertilizer, the type of trees, the soil, the grade, and a big one in my book - the tappers.

[philo]

Well for a starter - my ex wife has ca 5000 threes aged 1 to 8. Last season 600 8yo was giving THB 20000 Gross pr/mnt. for 8 mnt. The other 500 7yo was giving THB 8000 pr/mnt for 8 mnt.
Soethnh is wrong here, i will know in the end of the month whre the batches are for sale ( 2 differenr plots).

PS The reason I care is that i have to pay for house allimony/kids,car until she is self sufficient. Unless I start this study know she will never be ...

[philo]

scotbeve, on 2011-06-01 20:43:08, said:

slapout, on 2011-06-01 16:29:31, said:

As chang says , no two farms are the same. Weather difference over 25 miles can make a huge difference as well as the man who is out there doing the work and buying the materials needed.
I once laughed when a visiting city fellow asked a rancher "how many cows and calves do you have"? The rancher replied, "Would you answer if I asked you how much money you had"? Of course this being Thailand I have been asked both questions too many times to count.

Agreed, slapout plus all the other variables: how much fertilizer, the type of trees, the soil, the grade, and a big one in my book - the tappers.

This is not rocketscience. As most of farangs are not there when fertilizing is done, weeding, buying of 8 yo threes, soil being giving to poor families 100' of years ago, ather they depleenishing it 10's of yeas and if the Tappers have a PhD from Kaosarn, your information is at most showing what elements are inNNvolved at most basic plan. What I would like is REAL stories and CONCRTE and TECNICAL advise. TY

Edited by philo, 2011-06-02 03:45:10.

[philo]

Some fun


[
Tred to put ouut uyo tubes, but didnnt make it it. the are lot of tubes fom advise, cutting, preparing, selling and facricaticationg.

Edited by philo, 2011-06-02 04:59:38.

[tothemark]

Quote

This is not rocketscience. As most of farangs are not there when fertilizing is done, weeding, buying of 8 yo threes, soil being giving to poor families 100' of years ago, ather they depleenishing it 10's of yeas and if the Tappers have a PhD from Kaosarn, your information is at most showing what elements are inNNvolved at most basic plan. What I would like is REAL stories and CONCRTE and TECNICAL advise. TY

Phil, why do you think anything is wrong ?

You say that Last season 600 8yo was giving THB 20000 Gross pr/mnt. for8 mnt.

So why not apply my calculation rather than giving it large on here !

600 young trees at .7kg per tree per month = 420kgs per month. For cuprubber last month work on 80bht per kilo. That's 33,600 bht less the tapperscut of 40% gives you a return of 20,160 baht per month based upon the ratesmentioned.

As I said its simple maths, if anyone is in business, you've gotta doyour sums.

Edited by tothemark, 2011-06-02 05:33:33.

[fatfather]

Thais calculate 100.000baht per year per 10 rai rubber trees as a minimum income after cut of all costs. Maybe more, up to many variables. Rubber will pay out, but the problem is not the farm itself, it is the control of a farm. I know quite a few falang who did take the effort to plant and raise a farm and they give up/sell the farm after some years of tapping. Even for Thais it is not easy to control what is going on on the farms. There is a lot of cheating which starts with simple theft of rubber or cutting/tapping more than required. Cheating does not happen between Farang and Thai it happen in between close family as well and it happen everywhere. I know many who just had been tired of all this and gave up. To control your rubber you have to be on site every day, check daily everything and and and.... It's not leaning back and wait the money comes in, it's hard work permanently, a full time job.

fatfather

[scotbeve]

fatfather, on 2011-06-02 07:27:33, said:

Thais calculate 100.000baht per year per 10 rai rubber trees as a minimum income after cut of all costs. Maybe more, up to many variables. Rubber will pay out, but the problem is not the farm itself, it is the control of a farm. I know quite a few falang who did take the effort to plant and raise a farm and they give up/sell the farm after some years of tapping. Even for Thais it is not easy to control what is going on on the farms. There is a lot of cheating which starts with simple theft of rubber or cutting/tapping more than required. Cheating does not happen between Farang and Thai it happen in between close family as well and it happen everywhere. I know many who just had been tired of all this and gave up. To control your rubber you have to be on site every day, check daily everything and and and.... It's not leaning back and wait the money comes in, it's hard work permanently, a full time job.

fatfather

Fat,

I can't think of one agri-business in Thailand that isn't a nut cracker!!

[Boeing757]

In my humble opinion, the statement by Tothemark,  "Its not about the $ received its all about the Kg's." is exactly to the mark.

I am not sure however that his maths are the same as mine.

Philo's "600 8yo was giving THB 20000 Gross pr/mnt. for 8 mnt." was just that. A gross amount including tappers percentage, and it was on last years prices.

So my calculator tells me that THB 20,000 divided by last years average price of THB100/kg = 200kg for 600 trees per month.
This equates to 0.33 kg/tree/month, using your preferred calculation.

This in turn is 200 kg/rai/year using my, and the Governments preferred calculation.

This incidentally is exactly the same as the THB 100,000 per 10 rai quoted by fatfather today.





Remember that the governments national average is 289 kg/rai/year.

Clive