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[SonnyWaxmo]

Hi all of you

I need help to understand the rubber pricing.
We have just finished our first tapping seasong here in Isaan, Udon Thani. So we have learned a lot this year.
Today we sold about 600kg kee yang for 53 thb/kg. We don't do any sheets at the moment but I asked for the price on USS the buyer answered 97 thb/kg. When I checked on internet today the average price on http://www.thainr.co...detail=pr-local cup lump was 98 thb/kg for cup lump and about 111 thb for USS.
Where is the error?
We get 53 thb when the average is 98 thb on the market for cup lump, but we would have 97 thb for USS when the market price is 111.
Why we only get 54% for cup lump but 88% for USS?
There must be something I don't  understand ?

Please explain for me

Best regards

Sonny

[kwonitoy]

SonnyWaxmo, on 2012-02-02 23:07:33, said:

Hi all of you

I need help to understand the rubber pricing.
We have just finished our first tapping seasong here in Isaan, Udon Thani. So we have learned a lot this year.
Today we sold about 600kg kee yang for 53 thb/kg. We don't do any sheets at the moment but I asked for the price on USS the buyer answered 97 thb/kg. When I checked on internet today the average price on http://www.thainr.co...detail=pr-local cup lump was 98 thb/kg for cup lump and about 111 thb for USS.
Where is the error?
We get 53 thb when the average is 98 thb on the market for cup lump, but we would have 97 thb for USS when the market price is 111.
Why we only get 54% for cup lump but 88% for USS?
There must be something I don't  understand ?

Please explain for me

Best regards

Sonny

dam_n good questions Sonny,

I'm northeast of Udon and am looking forward to the completion of the new rubber facility about 15kms north and 15 kms east of Udon Thani. It's a BIG Vietmanise backed (according to the wife) factory. They've been building it for about 8 months now and should be done next year and I'm very curious as to the prices they will pay.

Ken

[SonnyWaxmo]

Hi again

We have the same situation here, they are building a huge (app 30ha land area) rubber factory in Phsauk (Undon Thani district), It's only 5km from our farm. I'm very curious how this will effect the local prices. The building has been going on for a year and I have heard they are planing to open this year.
There are some different scenarios.

1. The factory set a minimum delivery limit so the local farmers can't sell directly. But the local buyers can rice ther buying price, beacause less expences.
2. The factory will allow farmers to direct delivery and we will get a better price beacause a shorter supplier chain.

a worst case scenario is
3. The factory set a minimum delivery limit, but they also lower the buying price for the local dealers. The local dealers are going to sell anyway beacause the shorter and quicker delivery. This will give the farmers a lower price.

Offcourse thera are many more ways this can effect our situation, so it's exiting to see what happens.

Any of you have experince from this situation?
Or anyone selling directly to a rubber factory?

Best regards

Sonny

[jamescollister]

Sonny
been over this before, first that web sights numbers, prices always seem high. I don't know what they are referring to as cup rubber, it certainly is not the cup you and Ken sell. It will have been processed in some way. They don't respond to e mails either.
  Better to use this web site for price trends    http://www.rubbertha...g/price_eng.htm

How it all works is not that difficult to understand.
RSS is sold by grade and the price is what ever per kilo
USS sun dried is sold by weight minus water content. As it is sheet and dry the water content will be small.
Cup is the one that throws people.
Price is set at dry weight, then water,dirt, stones, grass and bark shavings are removed. Thais often think they are pulling a fast one, but they are not. The buyers know the tricks and drop the price to compensate. The seller is the one getting conned. If selling cup, it's better for you to sell clean dry rubber. The buyers will give you a better price. Jim

Ken don't think you will see any big price rises when the new place opens, margins are small and competition  fierce already. A month or so ago I looked at the prices. RSS from my front door to warehouse ready for shipping, FOB price [free on board ] was 18 Baht a kilo more. That 18 Baht has to cover all the costs of loading, unloading, transport and 5 Baht tax. Not a lot of fat to cut.

[SonnyWaxmo]

jamescollister, on 2012-02-03 11:16:47, said:

Sonny
been over this before, first that web sights numbers, prices always seem high. I don't know what they are referring to as cup rubber, it certainly is not the cup you and Ken sell. It will have been processed in some way. They don't respond to e mails either.
  Better to use this web site for price trends    http://www.rubbertha...g/price_eng.htm

How it all works is not that difficult to understand.
RSS is sold by grade and the price is what ever per kilo
USS sun dried is sold by weight minus water content. As it is sheet and dry the water content will be small.
Cup is the one that throws people.
Price is set at dry weight, then water,dirt, stones, grass and bark shavings are removed. Thais often think they are pulling a fast one, but they are not. The buyers know the tricks and drop the price to compensate. The seller is the one getting conned. If selling cup, it's better for you to sell clean dry rubber. The buyers will give you a better price. Jim

Ken don't think you will see any big price rises when the new place opens, margins are small and competition  fierce already. A month or so ago I looked at the prices. RSS from my front door to warehouse ready for shipping, FOB price [free on board ] was 18 Baht a kilo more. That 18 Baht has to cover all the costs of loading, unloading, transport and 5 Baht tax. Not a lot of fat to cut.

I agree with you Jim ther must be some processing in some way, the price differs to much.
By the way, have a nice trip home. My plan to visit you when we went south this year was spoield by the lack of time. We bougth some 3000 new plants and was in the hurry home. But new time will come and I'm curious to see yor sheet and smoke plant.

Regards
Sonny

[kwonitoy]

OK, Thanks for the information and the link Jim.

I guess it's natural to think we're getting hoodwinked somewhere, what with language barriers and all,

It's a learning curve and your further along it than most of us

Looking forward to grade year 2 next season

Ken

[jamescollister]

Sonny, hope we can met up this season, we are just packing for the return to OZ, via a few days in Pattaya.
Ken lets hope next season the rains are kinder and the prices are better. You want to get over to sheet if you can. It doesn't cost that much to set up a tin shed and a few rollers. Have a vid, family run rubber factory Buntharik on you tube. Think you could build a reasonable set up for around 50,000 Baht, it does not have to be fancy and your workers do the work, more money for both.

On the money side, not a good year all round, low prices and floods. Without going over the wife's chicken scratchings, she calls books. To know exact numbers, sheet, cup etc we did sell over 2 mil Bahts worth of rubber. Can't complain as all it did was drink beer and sleep. Jim

[kwonitoy]

Less rain would be nice but I'll settle for no tree damaging typhoons

I'd like to get something set up for sheet making, just have to convince the CEO (wife) of the advantages of doing it at one location rather than let each tapper do his own Issan style.

And find somewhere to put it that's away from the house and secure. I'd like to do it and get the hang of it before our big plots come on line.

I'm headed down to Oz myself in a couple of weeks for a job, don't know the exact location of the jobsite yet though.

Ken

[jamescollister]

kwonitoy, on 2012-02-03 13:06:49, said:

Less rain would be nice but I'll settle for no tree damaging typhoons

I'd like to get something set up for sheet making, just have to convince the CEO (wife) of the advantages of doing it at one location rather than let each tapper do his own Issan style.

And find somewhere to put it that's away from the house and secure. I'd like to do it and get the hang of it before our big plots come on line.

I'm headed down to Oz myself in a couple of weeks for a job, don't know the exact location of the jobsite yet though.

Ken

Ken we will be in Geelong, if in the area get in touch, but think more likily you will be a long long distance away. As for this work thing, may/ will have to look for a job. OZ is one expensive place to live, though I am hoping the wife will rise to the occasion and get the job. It's her idea we go back so the kids keep up their English. Jim

[cobbler]

We Fertilized this year on our flat 20 rai on the Saturday the 14 of January just after most of the leaves fell off.We will be doing this every year from now on because the new leaves have grown very fast and have a  thicker coverage than last year.Also because the new leaves grew so fast we have noticed no new leaves are getting burnt by the sun while growing.So,I can highly recommend this as a good idea instead of fertilizing at the beginning of the new season.Healthy leaves healthy tree and good yang flow due to more leaves to help the photosynthesis process.
   We have now closed this farm 5 days ago for this season.We have had rain every day for the last 5 days.
    Happy yang and best wishes to all

[Mosha]

Just waiting for the leaves to mature now. Still amazes me how quickly the leaf change happens lol.  Popping over to Sawi all being well next week, A mate has some trees over that way, waiting to get the sitches out of my crust. 8 years and I still forget to duck. 5555

[cobbler]

Mosha, on 2012-02-04 13:05:03, said:

Just waiting for the leaves to mature now. Still amazes me how quickly the leaf change happens lol.  Popping over to Sawi all being well next week, A mate has some trees over that way, waiting to get the sitches out of my crust. 8 years and I still forget to duck. 5555

Hi Mosha.Because you are south,Similar climate to us.Do you fertilize when the leaves drop or at the bebining of new season?
   Where is sawi??

   Cheers Cobbler
P.S 6 days of rain .Will it stop before next season?

[Mosha]

Sawi, or at least my buddy's place is on the beach south of Chumpon. If you have Google Earth. Search Sawi, it will give you a location by the highway. If you go East to that peninsula and follow the 2 island groups. He lives on the coast if you come back west, somewhere around there.. It's dry over this side after a relatively soggy January.
Usually we feed twice 1 x just before the rains are due then again at the end of the rainy season. Now I've learned she is using the wrong food "Because that is what everyone else uses" aargh!

Edited by Mosha, 2012-02-04 14:35:14.

[cobbler]

Thanks for that Mosha.Don't worry too much about the pui .Most of these people have been doing this for 40 or so years,especially down where you are.and they have had trial and error on everything they do.
  I notice we get rain every 2 to 3 weeks at worst,but just 1 hour or 30 minutes south of here is more rain again.amazing.
  I'll look that up on giggle earth when I get a chance.
   Cheers ,Cobbler

[BLACKJACK2]

Is there a preferred month to start tapping

[Mosha]

Depends where you are, but after the leaves come back, we wait for the leaves to darken.

[scotbeve]

Mosha, on 2012-02-07 08:15:25, said:

Depends where you are, but after the leaves come back, we wait for the leaves to darken.

BLACKJACK, Different regions different times.... But yes, the leaves should be that dark green color as Mosha pointed out.

[customcurb]

Anyone suggest where in issan to buy one of those digital gram scales? the smallish ones that are accurate for up to say 100 grams max ?

[Mosha]

customcurb, on 2012-02-07 17:33:39, said:

Anyone suggest where in issan to buy one of those digital gram scales? the smallish ones that are accurate for up to say 100 grams max ?

You can be sure those buying your rubber, unless they have a weigh bridge, won't use one.

[fezzy]

try ebay  CC  there only about 15 bucks

[BLACKJACK2]

We water our trees so they don't lose there leaves which i guess means when we start tapping next year we can do it any time. Thing is i want to be there when we start so i need to plan well in advance to get my hols.

[cobbler]

BLACKJACK2, on 2012-02-11 03:18:09, said:

We water our trees so they don't lose there leaves which i guess means when we start tapping next year we can do it any time. Thing is i want to be there when we start so i need to plan well in advance to get my hols.

Hi Blackjack.Sounds greatHow many rai are you watering and how big is your pump,and do you  use blue PVC pipe or black?What type of spray heads do you use?Do you have any picks of your set up?How much and how long ago did you set this up.Been thinking about doing this but not sure if the cost out weighs the extra cash flow.Our rain is fairly reliable ,but sometimes I think it would be helpful

[Mosha]

I live in what is claimed to be the wettest province in Thailand, it was still raining when the leaves dropped.

[cobbler]

Mosha, on 2012-02-11 11:42:48, said:

I live in what is claimed to be the wettest province in Thailand, it was still raining when the leaves dropped.

Is this a very polite way of telling somebody they are wrong.?

Edited by cobbler, 2012-02-11 20:47:12.

[BLACKJACK2]

We did it Xmas 2010 as year before lost about 500 trees through lack of rain, never noticed any difference in trees last year through dry season. There in 3 weeks so i'll see if there's any difference this year.