8 replies to this topic

[The_Other_Mac]

I don't usually spend much time in this forum, so I apologise if this subject clashes with the intentions of the forum.

As you probably know, a big story in the media recently concerns the prime minister suing a media corporation for criticising him (libel). I found it was quite difficult to find out exactly who said what. In fact, the well-known business-oriented magazine "Manager" quoted the words of a highly respected monk, Luang Ta Bua.

You can listen to the actual speech here. Obviously it's in Thai. My Thai is far from being able to follow that. My friend summarised it as this: he accuses Thaksin of trying to take control of the country: police, army and judiciary. He accuses Thaksin of "trying to swallow country, religion and the King." And his tone is very angry.

(Thaksin recently blocked a bill that would have returned to the King the ability to reject candidates for Supreme Patriarch.)

When asked, my friend's opinion is that some people feel loss of respect for this monk, due to his anger. Others feel that this may incite political protests.

I'm not trying to get too much into the political point here. But what's your opinion on Luang Ta Bua's speech? Should it be discounted due to his anger? Should we accept the anger as a fault, and listen to the message? Monks do not usually comment on political matters, is he right to speak up?

[bronco]

Toxin when criticised reacts pridictably, I f I remember rightly they have locked horns b4

[chownah]

An interesting topic.  I was not aware that such a well known monk had commented on the politics of the day.  I'm a beginner Buddhist so I'm not well read about scriptural references that might apply but the opinon I've seen expressed before by long time Buddhists is that from the Buddhist side it is not helpful for us to criticize other peoples behavior...it is better to concentrate on our own behavior.  

I know that this answer is not fully satisfying because there is a political aspect to this as well as the Buddhist aspect.  Because this is a Buddhist forum I am only replying to the Buddhist side of the question and if you would like a political discussion then another post in another forum would probably be appropriate.

Also, on the topic of politics and Buddhism...I imagine that any political activity would be acceptable as long as it did not interfere with following the path...that is it should not give rise to the defilements or lead to wrong livelihood etc.  I'll let the revered monk decide for himself if his dabbling in political issues presents such a problem for his path.

I'm hoping that someone will come up with some applicable scripture since that's one of my main interests now.

[camerata]

The_Other_Mac, on 2005-10-11 17:34:32, said:

When asked, my friend's opinion is that some people feel loss of respect for this monk, due to his anger. Others feel that this may incite political protests.

I'm not trying to get too much into the political point here. But what's your opinion on Luang Ta Bua's speech? Should it be discounted due to his anger? Should we accept the anger as a fault, and listen to the message? Monks do not usually comment on political matters, is he right to speak up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is rather shocking about this is that Luang Ta Bua is widely believed to be an arahant, but his behaviour in recent years has caused people to doubt that. In a Bangkok Post article last week, Sanitsuda Ekachai said his "arch-enemy" was the Supreme Patriarch. I believe he was also the founder of the "National Help Fund Foundation" to solicit donations to pay off Thailand's debt to the IMF.

Arahants don't usually involve themselves in politics and I imagine they don't get angry. But it's difficult to know how much an old man like him might be being manipulated by his followers. Anyway, Toxin has wisely declined to sue him for defamation.  

[The_Other_Mac]

(Yes, let's keep the politics and Thaksin's reaction out of this thread.)

chownah, on 2005-10-11 18:27:36, said:

I imagine that any political activity would be acceptable as long as it did not interfere with following the path...

Interesting... not the answer I expected, but then why did I ask if I thought I knew the answer.... Realistically of course there is politics within the monkhood, and even monks have opinions...

chownah, on 2005-10-11 18:27:36, said:

I'll let the revered monk decide for himself if his dabbling in political issues presents such a problem for his path.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it really just for himself? In his position he sets an example for so many people, monks or otherwise. You can say they shouldn't be influenced, but you can't deny that they are.

What's an arahant?

[sabaijai]

The_Other_Mac, on 2005-10-12 11:35:43, said:

(Yes, let's keep the politics and Thaksin's reaction out of this thread.)

chownah, on 2005-10-11 18:27:36, said:

I imagine that any political activity would be acceptable as long as it did not interfere with following the path...

Interesting... not the answer I expected, but then why did I ask if I thought I knew the answer.... Realistically of course there is politics within the monkhood, and even monks have opinions...

chownah, on 2005-10-11 18:27:36, said:

I'll let the revered monk decide for himself if his dabbling in political issues presents such a problem for his path.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it really just for himself? In his position he sets an example for so many people, monks or otherwise. You can say they shouldn't be influenced, but you can't deny that they are.

What's an arahant?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An arahant is one who has reached nibbana, and will never again experience rebirth.

arahant

This may she further light on the Luang Ta Maha Bua / Supreme Patriarch issue:

Somdej & Luang Ta

[camerata]

According to yesterday's Nation, Luang Ta has publicly challenged Toxin to sue him.  

[chownah]

It is my understanding that some people make a vow that they will continue to be reborn until all humanity is enlightened....or something like that.....is Luang Ta one of these?

Edited by chownah, 2005-10-15 10:09:38.

[Bakuteh]

chownah, on 2005-10-15 11:08:56, said:

It is my understanding that some people make a vow that they will continue to be reborn until all humanity is enlightened....or something like that.....is Luang Ta one of these?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe the entity you are referring to (some people make a vow that they will continue to be reborn until all humanity is enlightened) is known as a bodhisattva which is mainly subscribed to by Mahayana Buddhists. I'm not certain if Theravada Buddhism recognizes the bodhisattva's status. Avalokitesvara is an example of a bodhisattva and extremely popular in Tibet and the far east due to his vow to hear and see any suffering and to alleviate any human suffering. You may see a diety with a "thousand" arms and a multitude of eyes, that's Avalokitesvara or the Chinese Buddhist emanation of the bodhisattva, Kuan Yin or the Tibetan version, Tara. The 14th Dalai Lama and his predecessors are traditionally regarded by Tibetans as the incarnation of Avalokitesvara  who is the bodhisattva of compassion.