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[george]

Great balls of fire

NONG KHAI: -- Nong Khai is ready to welcome more than 200,000 tourists to see the Naga fireballs, the provincial governor says.

This year, the phenomenon of fireballs from the Mekong River is forecast to appear at the end of Buddhist Lent tomorrow and Wednesday while most hotels are almost fully booked as hundreds of thousands of tourists flood into the city to experience the phenomenon.

Nong Khai governor Supoj Laowansiri said 600 houses had offered home-stays for tourists. The province has also provided 100 tents behind the provincial office and is coordinating with temples and schools to provide space for tourists, Supoj said, adding that the province expects around Bt100 million will be spent by visitors.

On Wednesday, the festival will begin with an offering of food to 300 monks on the Thai-Lao Friendship Bridge and rites to sacrifice the Naga in Ponepisai and Sangkom districts.

Activities organised for tourists include food streets, boat competitions, floating fireboat to make sacrifices to the Naga and a light and sound show featuring the legend of the Naga fireballs on the Mekong River.

--The Nation 2005-10-16

[Buff-horns]

why hasnt National Geographic covered this yet ? do they smell a large rat ??

[qualtrough]

Anybody who has been there who can tell it how it is done?

[Galong]

Anyone who would believe that this is a natural phenomenon would likely vote for Thaksin.

Didn't someone end up in court last year for saying this was fake??

[Prudent_rabbit]

http://www.smh.com.a...8674369352.html

Nice article from the Sydney Morning Herald

[MyNameIsFarang]

Prudent_rabbit, on 2005-10-17 08:48:25, said:

http://www.smh.com.a...8674369352.html

Nice article from the Sydney Morning Herald

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed.

(And speaking of such matters, scientists reckon the fireballs may be bubbles of methane gas released from rotting vegetation on the riverbed. The happy coalescence of water flow and temperature in October and the gravitational pull of the full moon causes them to rise to the surface, then flare briefly in the air - similar to the recent theory that has emerged to explain the mystery of the Bermuda Triangle.)

Briefly, no. There is no such thing as "the gravitational pull of the full moon". The moon can be in the full phase when it is closest to the Earth or at its point farthest from the Earth.

And the gravitational pull of the new moon, when the sun and moon are in the same part of the sky would be even stronger.

And that still does not address what would cause methane to spontaneously combust over the Mekong on this one particular night.

Fake!

[Jai Dee]

qualtrough, on 2005-10-17 02:37:55, said:

Anybody who has been there who can tell it how it is done?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's another explanation:

UNRAVELLING THE MYSTERY OF THE KING OF NAGA FIREBALLS PHENOMENON

While it is tempting to maintain the allure of the many intriguing accounts that surround the mythical origins of the "Bang Fai Phaya Naga" fireballs, scientific studies have provided ample evidence to verify the authenticity of this natural phenomenon.

The appearance of the King of Naga fireballs involves the simultaneous interplay of several forces of nature. These include the presence of conditions that are conducive to the formation of Methane-Nitrogen gas with 19% level of purity, the presence of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria co-existing in a habitat at depths of 4.55 to 13.40 metres with organic deposits forming on a bed of clay or sand, average surrounding temperatures of higher than 26?C at 10.00, 13.00 and 16.00 hours, and a PH value between 6.4 to 7.8.

As the sun warms the surface of the clay or sand bed, organic matter decomposes within 3 to 6 hours and begins to emit methane gas. Pressure builds up and the gas rises to the surface of the water. Bubbles of gas exceeding 15cc dissipate leaving behind a 12cc nucleas that floats upwards. The gas reacts with the oxygen in the air and instantly ignites. 95% of the balls of light seen are ruby-red with pinkish-red or crimson-burgundy hues. This explains why these balls of light are of uniform colour, do not emit flares, smoke or sound, and eventually dissolve into thin air without leaving a trace.

The frequency and intensity of the fireballs also vary according to several other factors such as the distance of the earth relative to the sun and moon, the intensity of "B" and "C" ultraviolet rays, and a extent of the depletion of the ozone layer in the stratosphere.

Tracking studies have indicated that there is much greater likelihood of the phenomenon occurring in the months of March to May, and September and October, on days when the earth gravitates closest to the sun and moon, and the depletion of the ozone layer allows ultraviolet rays to easily penetrate the stratosphere.

Based on these studies, the two absolute indicators for the formation of King of Naga fireballs are the presence of Methane-Nitrogen gases of 19% purity and a sufficient concentration of Ionized Atomic Oxygen to trigger a reaction called "heterogenous combustion" that results in the mystical glow of the fireballs.

Contact information:
TAT NORTHEASTERN OFFICE - REGION 5
E-mail: tatudon@esan.inet.co.th

Source: http://www.tatnews.o...ine/1611.asp#11

[sriracha john]

Good discussion with personal experiences on:

http://www.thaivisa....topic=40063&hl=

Several theories are reviewed with reasons why they aren't justified or are believable.


The Syndey news article is also interesting when he went from Doubting Thomas to be completely unsure:

Quote

And then came the moment that turned a nascent cynic into a fervent believer. From directly in front of me, from the middle of the river - from the depths of the mighty Mekong - two fireballs rose one after the other and flew swiftly over my head, petering out somewhere above the temple.

My experiences were similar to his in many regards.
What's causes them?
I don't know, but I DO know that all the rationale explanations are disproven or discredited to my satisfaction... which leaves my ultimate response...
"mai loo"..

[The Nemi]

Jai Dee, on 2005-10-17 12:15:19, said:

qualtrough, on 2005-10-17 02:37:55, said:

Anybody who has been there who can tell it how it is done?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's another explanation:

UNRAVELLING THE MYSTERY OF THE KING OF NAGA FIREBALLS PHENOMENON

While it is tempting to maintain the allure of the many intriguing accounts that surround the mythical origins of the "Bang Fai Phaya Naga" fireballs, scientific studies have provided ample evidence to verify the authenticity of this natural phenomenon.

The appearance of the King of Naga fireballs involves the simultaneous interplay of several forces of nature. These include the presence of conditions that are conducive to the formation of Methane-Nitrogen gas with 19% level of purity, the presence of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria co-existing in a habitat at depths of 4.55 to 13.40 metres with organic deposits forming on a bed of clay or sand, average surrounding temperatures of higher than 26?C at 10.00, 13.00 and 16.00 hours, and a PH value between 6.4 to 7.8.

As the sun warms the surface of the clay or sand bed, organic matter decomposes within 3 to 6 hours and begins to emit methane gas. Pressure builds up and the gas rises to the surface of the water. Bubbles of gas exceeding 15cc dissipate leaving behind a 12cc nucleas that floats upwards. The gas reacts with the oxygen in the air and instantly ignites. 95% of the balls of light seen are ruby-red with pinkish-red or crimson-burgundy hues. This explains why these balls of light are of uniform colour, do not emit flares, smoke or sound, and eventually dissolve into thin air without leaving a trace.

The frequency and intensity of the fireballs also vary according to several other factors such as the distance of the earth relative to the sun and moon, the intensity of "B" and "C" ultraviolet rays, and a extent of the depletion of the ozone layer in the stratosphere.

Tracking studies have indicated that there is much greater likelihood of the phenomenon occurring in the months of March to May, and September and October, on days when the earth gravitates closest to the sun and moon, and the depletion of the ozone layer allows ultraviolet rays to easily penetrate the stratosphere.

Based on these studies, the two absolute indicators for the formation of King of Naga fireballs are the presence of Methane-Nitrogen gases of 19% purity and a sufficient concentration of Ionized Atomic Oxygen to trigger a reaction called "heterogenous combustion" that results in the mystical glow of the fireballs.

Contact information:
TAT NORTHEASTERN OFFICE - REGION 5
E-mail: tatudon@esan.inet.co.th

Source: http://www.tatnews.o...ine/1611.asp#11

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanx for the info Jai Dee......was really curious what this thing was all abt.

so then why is NG not covering this particular exhibition by nature.....or may be they are but just lack of info i think

Thanx again

[chownah]

UNRAVELLING THE MYSTERY OF THE KING OF NAGA FIREBALLS PHENOMENON

While it is tempting to maintain the allure of the many intriguing accounts that surround the mythical origins of the "Bang Fai Phaya Naga" fireballs, scientific studies have provided ample evidence to verify the authenticity of this natural phenomenon.

The appearance of the King of Naga fireballs involves the simultaneous interplay of several forces of nature. These include the presence of conditions that are conducive to the formation of Methane-Nitrogen gas with 19% level of purity, the presence of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria co-existing in a habitat at depths of 4.55 to 13.40 metres with organic deposits forming on a bed of clay or sand, average surrounding temperatures of higher than 26?C at 10.00, 13.00 and 16.00 hours, and a PH value between 6.4 to 7.8.

As the sun warms the surface of the clay or sand bed, organic matter decomposes within 3 to 6 hours and begins to emit methane gas. Pressure builds up and the gas rises to the surface of the water. Bubbles of gas exceeding 15cc dissipate leaving behind a 12cc nucleas that floats upwards. The gas reacts with the oxygen in the air and instantly ignites. 95% of the balls of light seen are ruby-red with pinkish-red or crimson-burgundy hues. This explains why these balls of light are of uniform colour, do not emit flares, smoke or sound, and eventually dissolve into thin air without leaving a trace.

The frequency and intensity of the fireballs also vary according to several other factors such as the distance of the earth relative to the sun and moon, the intensity of "B" and "C" ultraviolet rays, and a extent of the depletion of the ozone layer in the stratosphere.

Tracking studies have indicated that there is much greater likelihood of the phenomenon occurring in the months of March to May, and September and October, on days when the earth gravitates closest to the sun and moon, and the depletion of the ozone layer allows ultraviolet rays to easily penetrate the stratosphere.

Based on these studies, the two absolute indicators for the formation of King of Naga fireballs are the presence of Methane-Nitrogen gases of 19% purity and a sufficient concentration of Ionized Atomic Oxygen to trigger a reaction called "heterogenous combustion" that results in the mystical glow of the fireballs.

Contact information:
TAT NORTHEASTERN OFFICE - REGION 5
E-mail: tatudon@esan.inet.co.th

hahahahahahahhahahahahhaha  science education from the Tourism Authority of Thailand hahahahahahhha

[Buff-horns]

if it is a natural phenomina it should occur in other rivers of the world !
if you view the river when its at low level the bed is all sand .no organicy material to be seen. over in Laos nearby they are constantly dredging the river for sand for building materials. Maybe its the giant catfish farting ? thats a more plausible explanation.
its all wind !

[Sangsom]

Well I would say. Is there anyone in his right mind that believes in Lourdes of Fatima? I don't think, so why belive this scam?

[bkkmadness]

Quote

if it is a natural phenomina it should occur in other rivers of the world !

Just because a natural phenomenon occurs in one river, it doesn't mean it should happen in all rivers as they all have different enviroments.

It's certainly a great scam then, as I've heard no plausible explanations for the happenings there.

Ok, explanations about the fireballs from the naysayers please, I assmue you have all been up there and had first hand experience of it.

[sriracha john]

I don't think it meets the normal meaning of scam at all, where something is done deceiptively and is willfully untrue.
Until it's explained satisfactorily, it's a mystery.

[chownah]

I think it has all the markings of a scam but since we don't know how it happens then we have not conclusive proof that its a scam....my guess is that sooner or later we will find out.  The explanations I have heard or read are really unconvincing at best and total farce in many cases.  A really good point has been brought up here.....let's get The National Geographic Sociey involved....then we'll find out.....I'm sure if it is not a scam then the authorities would gladly invite them to come and investigate since it would increase the tourist money spent and give Thailand world wide fame....TAT should love it....but so far all that I have seen is threats being aimed at anyone who wants to do a real scientific inquiry....this is what scammers do.  Whatever it is, it is fun to go see and I recommend it....its a great party!!!!

Edited by chownah, 2005-10-18 09:56:34.

[Buff-horns]

the balls dont appear on schedule in the same place every year. they  just popup unannounced somewehere. thais have been known to sit there for days and see nothing.
some see them most do not.

[george]

Thai TV7 just reported that they have seen at least four balls on fire.

[Heng]

Lolz.   The ol' fireballs from the river scam.  

[schmoove]

This is my first reply to a post although i have been reading everyone elses i had to post to this one.
I find the believing in the wonderment of the spirits to be a beautiful thing and i think this is one of the reasons we love thailands peoples so much.
The other posts i have read here miss the real point about this event and if anyone has watched the most beautiful movie called " mekhong full moon party" (it comes on dvd with eng sub titles), they may understand it a little better.
Without giving too much away (which is what the message at the end of the movie asks) the producers of the movie add text to say "to everyone watching this movie please let the mystery survive in a sinicle world and not to hurt other peoples be them young or old by trying to look too closley into the whys and hows of the fireballs and just enjoy" or words to that efect.
The festival brings families, tourists and "faith" together for a while, just dont rationalize it to much- or thailand for that matter:-)
Get the movie if you can it is very nice.
p.s.     also they can $ell a little som tam as well

[^_^]

schmoove, on 2005-10-19 19:21:13, said:

This is my first reply to a post although i have been reading everyone elses i had to post to this one.
I find the believing in the wonderment of the spirits to be a beautiful thing and i think this is one of the reasons we love thailands peoples so much.
The other posts i have read here miss the real point about this event and if anyone has watched the most beautiful movie called " mekhong full moon party" (it comes on dvd with eng sub titles), they may understand it a little better.
Without giving too much away (which is what the message at the end of the movie asks) the producers of the movie add text to say "to everyone watching this movie please let the mystery survive in a sinicle world and not to hurt other peoples be them young or old by trying to look too closley into the whys and hows of the fireballs and just enjoy" or words to that efect.
The festival brings families, tourists and "faith" together for a while, just dont rationalize it to much- or thailand for that matter:-)
Get the movie if you can it is very nice.
p.s.     also they can $ell a little som tam as well

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^__^

[Artisan]

The whole thing is a load of balls (fire balls). I've sat on the banks of the Mekhong five times in the last twelve years, under the full moon and with several hundred other people hoping (cynically) to see a glimpse of this phenomenon. Each time....nothing, not even a squib.....but it is pleasant, isn't it, to sit in the open air of a warm evening with a few bottles of beer?

The believers in these fireballs are the same people who clambered to the top of Phu Khradung on the afternoon of 31st December 1999 expecting the world to come to an end at midnight because of the Y2K 'threat'.

[sabaijai]

Buff-horns, on 2005-10-17 15:22:33, said:

if it is a natural phenomina it should occur in other rivers of the world !
if you view the river when its at low level the bed is all sand .no organicy material to be seen. over in Laos nearby they are constantly dredging the river for sand for building materials. Maybe its the giant catfish farting ? thats a more plausible explanation.
its all wind !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It does happen in other rivers and swamps. See the link sriracha john posted above. Ever hear of 'swamp gas'?

[Neeranam]

Quote

QUOTE
if it is a natural phenomina it should occur in other rivers of the world !

The same could be said of the Loch Ness monster, which I believe. The fire balls, I think may happen sometimes, or happened once, but now they make them, IMO.

[ovenman]

Neeranam, on 2005-10-20 22:17:17, said:

The fire balls, I think may happen sometimes, or happened once, but now they make them, IMO.

That explanation is probably closest to the truth.  The fireballs may well be an infrequent, naturally occuring phenomena but in recent years have been "helped along" due to the increase in tourists going to view them.  This would explain why the TAT (and others) are reluctant to have anybody investigate them too closely.

[sabaijai]

ovenman, on 2005-10-20 15:29:18, said:

Neeranam, on 2005-10-20 22:17:17, said:

The fire balls, I think may happen sometimes, or happened once, but now they make them, IMO.

That explanation is probably closest to the truth.  The fireballs may well be an infrequent, naturally occuring phenomena but in recent years have been "helped along" due to the increase in tourists going to view them.  This would explain why the TAT (and others) are reluctant to have anybody investigate them too closely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The TAT has a page on their website suggesting not that the phenom has anything to do with nagas but that it's gas released from rotting vegetation. Not exactly bolstering the mystique ...

I think it takes a good deal more gullibility to believe it's a hoax than to consider it may be a natural (not mystical) phenom. The problem with the hoax theory - as with most consipiracy theories - is that such a thing would be virtually impossible to keep secret for even a year or two. With the way Thais love gossip and rumour, I think someone would have spilled the beans by now.

I saw the fireballs myself at Ban Ahong years ago, about a week after the full moon. If it were a hoax, I doubt anyone would carry it to the point of creating the fireballs on other evenings than the full moon, for as long as two weeks on either side of the full moon. Plus they're known to have appeared at other times of year (see the TAT page again). Also Ban Ahong is several km away from where the Phonphisai festival occurs; why move downriver? Or upriver, since they're seen at many locales stretching from Nong Khai to Beung Kan - how would the hoaxers cover such a large area without being seen? Talk about believing in myth and legend.

If they're man-made, it's incredible that no one has come up with a viable theory for how the hoax is perpetrated, much less who is perpetrating it. Truly spirited, master hoaxers, these. The more simple explanation is that it's foxfire-related, the more convoluted one that they're manmade.

A friend just back from the event said that zero fireballs were visible at Phonphisai this year. TV7 says four, according to an earlier post.  You'd think with ever-growing crowds since the 2002 relase of Mekong Full Moon Party that anyone involved in hoaxing the event would be looking to increase, not diminish, the frequency of the fireballs.

In recent years the Chinese have been blasting a lot of Mekong river channels north of Chiang Khong, and it just may be that whatever balance of nature produced the gas has been disturbed to the point where they're no longer as common.