207 replies to this topic
Posted 2011-11-23 11:42:26
 flying, on 2011-11-22 12:31:13, said:
kirk0233, on 2011-11-22 11:17:40, said:
I use ach transfers to Bangkok Bank through their New York branch from my bank in the US. I am told the New York branch charges 5 dollars and bank in bangkok charges a minimum of 200 baht per transfer. These charges do not show on my on-line account with Bangkok bank. Has anyone ever seen these charges itemized in their on-line statement? How is it possible to verify these charges other than call the bank? The lack of fee disclosure makes checking exchange rate accuracy difficult in my opinion.
I am not sure & maybe Dave or Ian will chime in but....I think you can get an SMS with that info.
But that aside I do not find it too difficult to figure myself & it has always been 100% correct
Just take the BKB NY fee off first...
Fees Link
So in your case you said $5 so you must have sent between 1 & $2k
Lets just say you sent 2k for example....
So now you know you sent $1995 ( 2k minus the $5 fee)
Look at the TT rate of exchange for that day
Rates of exchange Link
So if sent today for example you got 31.03 at today's rates x $1995 = 61904.85 THB
Less the final BKB fee of 0.25% (minimum 200 baht maximum 500 baht)
In this case 61904.85 x 0.25% = 154.76 THB so 200 THB (the minimum)
61904.85 - 200THB fee = 61704.85 THB net 
No need for us to chip in FLYING. You are doing an excellent job of explaining.....!
Posted 2011-11-23 12:07:50
ianguygil, on 2011-11-23 11:38:40, said:
The constraints on opening an account (especially your first account) while outside of Thailand relate to the AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) laws. It is hard for us to ensure that somebody is who they purport to be when we can not examine their identification documents. If you are an existing customer it may be possible under certain cirumstances. I am sure all would understand the need to keep tight controls on things which may otherwise allow criminals to launder drug funds or that would facilitate terrrorist financing.
Ian, thanks for the elaboration above... But I'm still trying to understand the answer to the question the prior poster raised above -- why can't an American citizen, if he/she physically went to the BKKB NY office, open a BKKB Thailand account there?
You talked about Thailand's laws and checking of documents above (presumably in the online context). But I'd assume the BKKB staff in the NY office could just as well, at least in theory, examine and confirm the necessary presented documents of someone who walked in in person as bank staff in Thailand could when someone walks in there applying for a new account. Again, just to be clear, I'm talking about the processing of a new Thailand account, not at an account based at BKKB NY.
I could ask the same question of the couple other Thai banks that have offices in L.A. and thus have a physical presence there... But they're not participating in this forum...
Posted 2011-11-23 12:31:12
ianguygil, on 2011-11-23 11:42:26, said:
No need for us to chip in FLYING. You are doing an excellent job of explaining.....!
Thanks Ian but you folks make it so easy for us.
Your website for info & account access are top notch.
Add to that your presence here as well as Dave & well
we have a very nice setup.
Thanks for all you folks do for us.
Posted 2011-11-23 14:27:19
TallGuyJohninBKK, on 2011-11-23 12:07:50, said:
ianguygil, on 2011-11-23 11:38:40, said:
The constraints on opening an account (especially your first account) while outside of Thailand relate to the AML (Anti Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) laws. It is hard for us to ensure that somebody is who they purport to be when we can not examine their identification documents. If you are an existing customer it may be possible under certain cirumstances. I am sure all would understand the need to keep tight controls on things which may otherwise allow criminals to launder drug funds or that would facilitate terrrorist financing.
Ian, thanks for the elaboration above... But I'm still trying to understand the answer to the question the prior poster raised above -- why can't an American citizen, if he/she physically went to the BKKB NY office, open a BKKB Thailand account there?
You talked about Thailand's laws and checking of documents above (presumably in the online context). But I'd assume the BKKB staff in the NY office could just as well, at least in theory, examine and confirm the necessary presented documents of someone who walked in in person as bank staff in Thailand could when someone walks in there applying for a new account. Again, just to be clear, I'm talking about the processing of a new Thailand account, not at an account based at BKKB NY.
I could ask the same question of the couple other Thai banks that have offices in L.A. and thus have a physical presence there... But they're not participating in this forum...
Largely because that is not their current business model and they do not have access to the systems we run in Thailand which differ largely from those we run offshore. However, this is something we can look at and consider if there is a real demand for it. I will discuss with the guy who runs our International Banking Group (i am meeting him tomorrow on another issue regarding the technology in our offshore branches). I will get back with an update after he has had a chance to consider it.
As for the other banks, as I think I said before to your other ID they are rep offices not branches, so they have much less capability (they are not approved by the US regulators to do the same things as full branches). But you can try with them if you want. But please note taht I never comment on the products or services of other banks, not in a negative or a positive way. That would not be appropriate.
Posted 2011-11-23 15:46:45
ianguygil, on 2011-11-23 14:27:19, said:
Largely because that is not their current business model and they do not have access to the systems we run in Thailand which differ largely from those we run offshore. However, this is something we can look at and consider if there is a real demand for it. I will discuss with the guy who runs our International Banking Group (i am meeting him tomorrow on another issue regarding the technology in our offshore branches). I will get back with an update after he has had a chance to consider it.
As for the other banks, as I think I said before to your other ID they are rep offices not branches, so they have much less capability (they are not approved by the US regulators to do the same things as full branches). But you can try with them if you want. But please note taht I never comment on the products or services of other banks, not in a negative or a positive way. That would not be appropriate.
Thanks for that response, Ian... Re BKKB, certainly in terms of customer numbers, I doubt there'd be any large number demand for that capacity in the foreign branches, whether NY or UK or elsewhere. On the other hand, I can't imagine that adding that capacity in the foreign branches for your new/future Thailand customers who need it would be a particularly burdensome or difficult thing to accomplish. But that's just an assumption on my part. Overall, it would be a very customer friendly way of dealing with your future international customers and helping them set up their Thailand banking arrangement prior to their physical arrival/relocation in Thailand.
As for the other Thai banks, I do recall your prior response in the other thread about the difference between rep offices vs. branches, BKKB in NY being the latter. However, and this is an interesting question, I'm wondering whether a foreign bank signing up Americans in America for exclusively foreign bank (non U.S. bank) accounts is something would require branch status, or for that matter, be an issue for U.S. bank regulations at all. On that subject, I won't even venture to make any assumptions.
Posted 2011-12-02 21:52:39
BTW, there's a very useful and informative thread running now elsewhere here on the risks of using Thai bank debit and credit cards in the event they are lost and/or stolen -- risks that are far more severe and substantial than anything you face when using U.S. bank issued cards.
http://www.thaivisa....tolen-atm-card/
Basically, under the policies adopted by Thai banks, you're responsible pretty much for all fraudulent charges that might be incurred on your cards until AFTER you've called the bank to report the lost or theft, whenever or however long that takes you...and pretty much regardless of any extenuating circumstances.
The problem, of course, is that a] you might not know or realize right away the cards have been lost/stolen, giving the thief time to charge up a fortune on your card(s), and 2] any time a thief obtains a stolen card, they're going to rush to spend as much as fast as they can...because they know sooner or later the bank's going to freeze the card.
In the U.S., your liability for lost/or stolen credit cards with fraudulent charges is capped at $50 per card by federal law. And for debit cards, it could be $0 liability if it's a VISA card or $50 if it's a MasterCard, provided you report within two business days of learning of the loss/theft.
In Thailand, with few exceptions, the only things that limit your financial liability for fraudulent charges are a] the daily spending limit and/or actual balance in your account on debit cards, and b] your credit limit on credit cards, which can be quite high for typical Thai bank issued cards.
BEWARE...the oft-advertised VISA no fraud liability pledge only applies to U.S. bank issued debit cards, even if they're used outside the U.S. But that "no fraud liability" pledge from VISA doesn't protect you at all with Thai bank issued VISA debit cards. And neither do the Thai banks.
The Thai bank cards may look the same as those from the U.S. and carry the same VISA or MC logo. But when it comes to liability for fraudulent charges, the Thai bank issued ones are DEFINITELY NOT the same.
Posted 2011-12-02 22:30:11
John,
This looks like a useful thread for Americans. I notice from other threads on banking you have a habit of going off topic and providing info that isn't really relevant to a thread. The same info gets repeated again and again whether relevant or not.
The result is it often gets hijacked with a US skew, whether OP is from US or not, and loses its original focus. For most people who are not US citizens or not living in the US, US accounts are generally of little interest.
Could I suggest instead of taking the other threads off topic you post a single link to say that US citizens refer to this thread for the caveats and risks etc rather than repeat on every thread. Every banking topic I look at at the moment seems the same. The reason why you need to post a link to another thread, is you take it off topic.
This would help keep the right info in the right place, which was mentioned by OP.
Posted 2011-12-02 23:26:34
Thanks for that suggestion, Fletch... Indeed, I created this particular thread specifically as a place where Americans participating in TV could come to ask questions and find info about Thai banking, or U.S.-Thai banking, specifically as it relates to Americans... And of course, each country's banking setup may be a bit different from the others.
However, outside of this thread, there are a range of banking topics that get discussed on Thai Visa that aren't specific to any ex pat nation, and instead, involve all of us and the way we all together deal with the Thai banking system. Our home country practices may vary. But the way Thai banks treat us as farang tends to be pretty much the same.
Regarding the other banking threads, perhaps you wouldn't have the feeling you expressed as a non-American if more folks from other countries would contribute here in the general banking discussions their own perspective of how things work in their countries, and how that compares to the way Thailand banking functions. But unfortunately, I don't see as many folks sharing on that subject as certainly could be the case.
For instance, in the above post about credit card fraud liability, I'd really like to have heard from Brits or other Europeans, more than occurred, about what kind of protections card holders in their countries have. It would help put into better context whether what the Thai banks are doing is either the exception or the rule. But again, it all depends on whether other people are willing to contribute the knowledge they have.
Posted 2011-12-03 11:26:26
John,
Thanks for taking the feedback constructively. A few things to add:
- It's generally the US system which is often the exception to the rule. The banking system is full of issues, especially on tax that aren't relevant to people from other countries. US is probably the most litigation based, compensation based, rules based country going. Thailand is more likely to be in line with other banks in the region than US, as Bank of Thailand has much stronger links with regulators like HKMA, Bank of Malaysia.
- For credit cards as someone highlighted on the thread. Thailand is not dissimilar to other countries, eg I think someone quote Switzerland. UK is similar. It's US that is out of sync. That's why there's few other posters highlighting diffs.
- On the various threads on interest rates. One guy was looking at THB 10 -15k a month, and transferring every year. All that's needed is to state THB 50mio is the limit now for guarantees and THb 1mio next year. 15 x 12 = THB 180k per year. The US "superiority" at 250k in terms of higher guarantee is somewhat irrelevant, and there is little pointing say adding the UK "superior guarantee" is GBP 85k, and the Euro limits. This also gives only half the story on banks anyway if engaged in, as the the chances of loss in the US are higher, hence more protection is needed. It needs to be set in context and give balance.
BTW On cards. Citi has various rules on lost cards, for debit and credit and ATM. On some cars they differentiate between reported in 2 days or not, within a month or not etc. Not all are limited to $50. Even with credit cards there are exceptions to $50. Hence again it is the US rule that is the exception globally. I'd also note that there are various riders, ifs and buts within the US system on credit card liability as well. US tends to have a rule and list 50 riders, this is in line with US having a constitution and rules based legal system. Thailand's rules are more like say the UK. Less prescriptive and case by case/ case law used more. This doesn't just apply to credit cards, but whole of the legal system
Cheers Fletch
Edited by fletchsmile, 2011-12-03 11:28:32.
Posted 2011-12-03 11:50:05
Fair enough... But even if the U.S. banking protections/rules might be different than other countries' besides Thailand, that doesn't erase the fact that IMHO they're better.... better than Thailand, and better than anywhere else that's operating similarly.
--better on bank card fraud liability. The $50 per credit card limit really is real...in any good-faith circumstance. It's a federal law, and the banks don't mess with it.
--better on government backed deposit insurance, I'll take $250K per account (U.S. banks) over $33,000 (Thai banks next year) any day.
--better on available options for avoiding foreign currency fee charges abroad. Plenty of U.S. bank choices with cards that have 0 foreign currency fee and even reimburse other banks' ATM charges.
--better on account fees... none of the U.S. bank accounts I have charge me any monthly fees, no annual fees, no fees for issuing bank cards, no fees for replacing bank cards, etc etc.
--credit card interest rates.... the U.S.cards I carry have standard APR rates of between 7 and 13 percent. Try finding a Thai bank credit card with anything other than the flat 20% APR rate.
If someplace has a better package of banking options available for the typical banking consumer, I'd sure like to know.
But I'll note as a footnote. It's equally true there are a lot of U.S. banks, mostly the mega sized ones, that will ream you on any variety of fees and other issues...outside the areas governed by U.S. law...
The difference is, in the U.S., you don't have to bank with them. You have lots of other U.S. bank and credit union choices that are consumer friendly. And that's just not the case in other smaller banking markets like Thailand, where all the banks pretty much move in lock step style.
It's up to the consumer to choose, and choose wisely. But at least the U.S. consumer has a choice.
Try to find a Thai bank that doesn't charge 20% interest on its basic credit cards... or that waives the 150 baht fee on foreign card ATM withdrawals... Or that doesn't charge an annual fee for keeping their basic ATM card... To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any... No choice... You're stuck with them.
Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK, 2011-12-03 11:54:05.
Posted 2011-12-03 12:02:07
fletchsmile, on 2011-12-03 11:26:26, said:
Hence again it is the US rule that is the exception globally. I'd also note that there are various riders, ifs and buts within the US system on credit card liability as well. US tends to have a rule and list 50 riders, this is in line with US having a constitution and rules based legal system. Thailand's rules are more like say the UK. Less prescriptive and case by case/ case law used more. This doesn't just apply to credit cards, but whole of the legal system
Re your comment above about U.S. credit card liability rules having "ifs and buts," if you're referring to something specific, please post/cite a clear factual reference to exactly what you're talking about...
Laws are always written in legal language... But in actual practice, the $50 limit on U.S. credit cards for fraud liability functions pretty much exactly as advertised. I've lived and banked in the U.S. for my entire life. In any good faith situation, the credit card company is going to follow the law and the consumer will be protected.
In Thailand, no protection at all for fraudulent charges on lost/stolen credit cards.
Posted 2011-12-03 12:14:52
BTW, I want to be very clear about this...
All of my comments and answers above are absolutely not based in any kind of "the U.S. is great" nationalism... Farthest thing from the truth.
My comments are ONLY based in hard cold cash, dollars and cents economics...
If the Thai banks were offering a 10% APR credit card that protected my account in the event the card was lost or stolen, I'd take it -- (assuming they'd give it to me without a work permit...which is an entirely different discussion.)
If the Thai banks offered a competitive bank account with meaningful deposit insurance and that didn't charge me a fee every time I sneezed, I'd take it. And so on and so forth.
But the unfortunate answer is, they're not doing those things. They're just not competitive with the other options that at least Americans have available to them.
Posted 2011-12-03 16:24:23
TallGuyJohninBKK, on 2011-12-03 12:14:52, said:
BTW, I want to be very clear about this...
All of my comments and answers above are absolutely not based in any kind of "the U.S. is great" nationalism... Farthest thing from the truth.
My comments are ONLY based in hard cold cash, dollars and cents economics...
If the Thai banks were offering a 10% APR credit card that protected my account in the event the card was lost or stolen, I'd take it -- (assuming they'd give it to me without a work permit...which is an entirely different discussion.)
If the Thai banks offered a competitive bank account with meaningful deposit insurance and that didn't charge me a fee every time I sneezed, I'd take it. And so on and so forth.
But the unfortunate answer is, they're not doing those things. They're just not competitive with the other options that at least Americans have available to them.
A wise person learns to play the systems and take advantage of where Thai banks are the better option and foreign banks where they're not. Prejudice towards one or the other isn't the answer. Take the best of both.
On credit cards APR:
Solution: Pay off your balance each month. Thai banks have an auto-payment facility by direct debit, so you never need miss payment and never need to pay interest. If you need to pay interest, that means you can't afford the items you are buying. I really don't care what the APR rate is. {BTW they are not blanket 20%, Thanachart is 15%, some banks offer different rates on Platinum etc. Unlike some US banks they don't charge amounts like 79% should you miss a payment}. Get yourself sms updates to be alerted whenever your card is used.
Thai deposit guarantee amount currently exceeds the US, and has done for several years. US deposit insured used to be $100k. They had to raise the amount to $250k because of the US banking crisis and number of banks failing. The increase was originally intended to be temporary, but has been made permanent because of the US public's lack of confidence in its bank sector among other things. In contrast the Thai banks were unlimited guarantee. They have reduced it now to THB 50mio (USD 1.6mio), and next year will decrease to THB 1mio (USd 33k). Thai banks are generally well run compared to US banks in terms of safety of your deposit and risks they are taking, Thai people have confidence in them, so the amount is decreasing.
As this Thai reduction is a recent phenomenom and US increase also recent (last couple of years) it is misleading to say this is why you didn't open an account. The length of time you've been here, Thai guarantees have so far been higher. It only reduces to THB 1mio next year in August - probably for the first time in decades! I wouldn't be surprised to see the US amount gradually fall back over time, if they can solve their crises, and get people to trust them again.
I don't know why you are paying charges on your Thai bank accounts. The only fee I pay is THB 100 per year for an ATM card at each bank.
Now off the top of my head, some of the benefits of banking in Thailand compared to banking only with US if you live here, and pick the right banks (not all banks offer but there is definitely a choice unlike your suggestions):
- Thai bank will lend money to Thai spouse guaranteed by foreigner so you can have a mortgage and buy your home. US banks generally won't lend vs property/condos in Thailand.
BTW Look for an offset mortgage, where they will also net off a THB savings account balance with a THB mortgage. Great way to save money and get better rates.
- Free ATM withdrawals at any Thai bank. No need to go looking for AEON and no need to pay THB 150.
- Free internet transfers to any bank in Thailand
- Cash back for using credit card at various places. eg Restaurants, supermarkets, petrol stations. We receive several thousand baht a year credited back to our bank account. Far exceeding the THB 100 ATM card fee
- Discounts at various places when you use a credit card
- No worries about exchange rates as all transactions are in THB. Frequently using a US bank account in Thailand will incur things like ATM fees this end unless you are prepared to walk miles for the "right ATM", and there will always be a spread on the exchange rate used vs USD (hidden cost)
- I would further add, my transaction costs for converting FCY into THB are minimal. Zero transfer cost for the SWIFT tfr out as a priority banking customer, and using an overseas bank that has a presence in Thailand too, so no charge either end. Do a larger amount telephone them and ask for them preferential rate via treasury. One bank actually telephones me in Thailand whenever money comes in, to check if there are any special needs.
- Ability to pay many Thai bills online or via autopay. Never miss a utility bill payment, or credit card bill payment, so never incur penalties and fees.
- Assistance buying THB investment products. Unit trusts, mutual funds, ETFs,in equities, bonds, gold, commodities etc. No tax on any of these in Thailand either if you select the right products. That's no capital gains tax here and no income tax on many investment products, often run by the same companies as overseas
- Not having to worry about exchange rates and timing as reasonable assets already here in THB
- Personal relationship manager to help with any queries and problems, who is just a telephone call or email away
- Generally more convenient to be able to go into your branch or call locally if there's an issue - no time difference, face to face etc
Thai banks are not perfect. In reality a combination of banking in your home country, banking offshore and in banking in Thailand is usually best. Ditch the natural prejudices and learning the systems is the optimal answer. To say one is better than the other is just misinformation. There are pro's and con's. For sure tho', anyone living in Thailand without a Thai bank account is not using their money as efficiently as they could
Edited by fletchsmile, 2011-12-03 16:28:47.
Posted 2011-12-03 17:15:07
Fletch, I agree to use things where they make sense for the user... wherever they may be.... I have no prejudice, except to want to save and earn money, and not give it away needlessly to banking companies. But some of your comments are just off-base..
--Lots of people sometimes use revolving credit to help manage their finances and expenses... It's silly to say anyone who does that can't afford what they're buying. My U.S. credit cards often offer me 0% interest for a year on no fee balance transfers... I'm happy to make use of those offers for my own benefit, like income tax bills, annual health insurance premiums, etc.
--Yes Thai banks' credit cards offer various kinds of rebates and benefits.. But you're paying for them... Most all the Thai bank credit cards I've looked at have hefty entry fees and annual fees thereafter, the more the benefits, the higher the fees. Not to mention, full liability for any fraudulent charges on lost/stolen cards.
--Free transfers between any banks in Thailand? On the Thai bank accounts I'm familiar with, they charge for internet banking transfers to other accounts within the same bank if they're outside the area of your home branch. And Thai banks in general most certainly have charges for online banking funds transfers to other bank company accounts.
--Most Thai banks accounts I'm familiar with don't offer free ATM withdrawals at any other Thai bank ATM.
--The U.S. didn't increase its government deposits insurance limits solely because of the banking environment. Rather, the $100K amount had been in place for many many years and had never been adjusted for inflation or anything else. Yes, the $250K was originally intended as a temporary measure, but was ultimately made permanent. I'm glad it was, and not because I have any fears. It simply helps promote confidence in the banking system and encourages people to save. More countries should do the same.
--Please post here the link to whatever Thai bank credit cards you're referring to that only charge an annual fee of 100 baht and still offer the kind of benefits you describe. I think you're mixing up debit/ATM cards and credit cards. The debit cards have 100 or 200 baht annual renewal fees. The Thai bank credit cards I've seen are substantially higher than that in terms of their entry and renewal fees.
--Personal relationship manager? You mean like the BKK Bank manager who was so helpful to the OP in the thread about how BKK Bank won't reimburse its cardholders for fraudulent charges to their cards... and the OP's local bank manager, according to the OP, simply said.. can't help you... sorry.
It would be helpful, and more useful for readers here, if you'd actually source and document the various claims you're making about various benefits and fees or lack of them regarding Thai banks, so everyone can judge them for their accuracy and context.
The Thai bank accounts I'm familiar with are the every-day ones offered by the regular Thai banks to ordinary customers without any unusually large account balance requirements or similar gotcha's... If you're talking about other kinds of things, like private banking arrangements with Standard Chartered where a very substantial minimum account balance is required, you should at least say so.
Unless you're prepared to provide specific, concrete examples of the advantages you're claiming, it's kind of hard to debate in a vacuum.
Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK, 2011-12-03 17:20:09.
Posted 2011-12-03 18:51:00
Too many quotes so need to split:)
TallGuyJohninBKK, on 2011-12-03 17:15:07, said:
--Lots of people sometimes use revolving credit to help manage their finances and expenses... It's silly to say anyone who does that can't afford what they're buying. My U.S. credit cards often offer me 0% interest for a year on no fee balance transfers... I'm happy to make use of those offers for my own benefit, like income tax bills, annual health insurance premiums, etc.
I suggest you watch more of your Suzie Orman:) These promotion periods are to lure people in. get you in the habit of not paying things off. While you may "take advantage", many people start off this way, and then hit a slippery slope as they get into bad habits of not paying it off. My solution: set up your finances so you don't need them.
Quote
--Yes Thai banks' credit cards offer various kinds of rebates and benefits.. But you're paying for them... Most all the Thai bank credit cards I've looked at have hefty entry fees and annual fees thereafter, the more the benefits, the higher the fees. Not to mention, full liability for any fraudulent charges on lost/stolen cards.
Not true. As above I pay only ATM card 100 baht. My visa card is free as long as I spend over THB 20k a month on it on average. It's a platinum elite card. Platinum is free with 10k a month.
BTW You could even use rewards points to pay for it, if you don't meet the 20k a month average. I've acummulated loads of points to do this. Reward points also let you get free gifts eg electric equipment. Put your flights back home on it. Free insurance
This is not just limited to Platinum tho' and goes down to the basic card levels too. Just you get more benefits with Platinum
Quote
--Free transfers between any banks in Thailand? On the Thai bank accounts I'm familiar with, they charge for internet banking transfers to other accounts within the same bank if they're outside the area of your home branch. And Thai banks in general most certainly have charges for online banking funds transfers to other bank company accounts.
Not True. This just highlights the misinformation and lack of information out there. These banks exist. eg Standard Chartered (Thai). No fees for other banks ATMs. No fees for internet bank transfers. It pays to also use someone like BBL in addition. Although they aren't free unlike Stan Chart, they have one of the widest ATM networks in the country.
.....
Edited by fletchsmile, 2011-12-03 18:52:09.
Posted 2011-12-03 18:52:44
Quote
--Most Thai banks accounts I'm familiar with don't offer free ATM withdrawals at any other Thai bank ATM.
Sorry but that's just your own limited knowldged. Stan Chart - local entity - Thai bank status. 30+ branches. Fewer ATMs, so they compensate by making other people's ATM's free. BBL again has one of the biggest network but changes
Quote
--The U.S. didn't increase its government deposits insurance limits solely because of the banking environment. Rather, the $100K amount had been in place for many many years and had never been adjusted for inflation or anything else. Yes, the $250K was originally intended as a temporary measure, but was ultimately made permanent. I'm glad it was, and not because I have any fears. It simply helps promote confidence in the banking system and encourages people to save. More countries should do the same.
While there may have been other reasons, the main reason was the total lack of confidence in many foreign banks, liquidity crisis and problems some banks had. It is no coincidence the timing coincided with the collapse of certain banks in US, Europe and UK. The crisis was what made them. I would be wrong to say they realised they hadn't updated, and the crisis just happened to be a benefit. It's correct to say the crisis is what made them think about this. US collapses. Northern rock, Iceland banks, Ireland Banks. These were the reasons US, UK and Europe updated their amounts. So yes more countries did do.
Quote
--Please post here the link to whatever Thai bank credit cards you're referring to that only charge an annual fee of 100 baht and still offer the kind of benefits you describe. I think you're mixing up debit/ATM cards and credit cards. The debit cards have 100 or 200 baht annual renewal fees. The Thai bank credit cards I've seen are substantially higher than that in terms of their entry and renewal fees.
Asking for links to be posted is just tedious. What people are saying more often than not is that they don't believe someone. On this occasion I'll look one up, but it does get tedious posting when people don't believe you, or don't like to admit they don't know as much as they think they do. One min search reveals:
http://www.bangkokba...s/free_fee.aspx
This is by no means unique.
I'd also add that many of the Thai people I know say that no-one really pays the fee on the card anyway. You just ask them to waive it, and threaten to cancel the card. They have discretion. I've also done this. At Bank of Asia many years ago, thru to UOB.
....
Posted 2011-12-03 18:53:18
Quote
--Personal relationship manager? You mean like the BKK Bank manager who was so helpful to the OP in the thread about how BKK Bank won't reimburse its cardholders for fraudulent charges to their cards... and the OP's local bank manager, according to the OP, simply said.. can't help you... sorry.
Learn to find your way around the system. There are good and bad employees in each bank. Premium bank at HSBC (THB 3mio of assets up - doesn't have to be cash)gets a better level of service
Quote
It would be helpful, and more useful for readers here, if you'd actually source and document the various claims you're making about various benefits and fees or lack of them regarding Thai banks, so everyone can judge them for their accuracy and context.
I've little interest in being judged. I find it a waste of time to look up and try and find links. It also doesn't take long to realise who talks rubbish on certain topics and who doesn't.
To your credit you've spent a lot of time researching the US in particular, and some of the Thai elements. On the Thai side, if you go in with a closed mind, and believe half of what is written on blogs, it's no surprise you find the answers you're looking for and want to see.
Quote
The Thai bank accounts I'm familiar with are the every-day ones offered by the regular Thai banks to ordinary customers without any unusually large account balance requirements or similar gotcha's... If you're talking about other kinds of things, like private banking arrangements with Standard Chartered where a very substantial minimum account balance is required, you should at least say so.
Unless you're prepared to provide specific, concrete examples of the advantages you're claiming, it's kind of hard to debate in a vacuum.
Well I'd say if you need USD 250k deposit protection, and worry about that, you've enough to set yourself up with a premier service at a Thai bank or foreign bank like HSBC or UOB. (Usually USD 100k equivalent) You can't have it both ways
For info Private Banking in this region is usually USD 1mio up, and wasn't what I was referring to.
Not to be confused with premium banking at USD 100k up - again doesn't have to be just cash. I assume someone like yourself is in this category should they wish and choose to be. Several Thai banks have a premium, priority or prestige segment - diff names used. Suggest you use google keywords. Thanachart BTW has a segment somewhat between premium and private.
Normally I don't bother debating these topics anymore as you put it, as most people are using what they've heard sometimes in a bar or read on a website or blog page etc, and the views and myths become self perpetuating. "Debating" simply ends in spending more time providing links to prove your points.
I find it somewhat similar to describing a Picasso, and someone asks you what colour is it?
Appreciate you've spent some time on this subject, and it's something of a hobby for you. Part of the problem for many people is they've often made their mind up beforehand. Bit like losing your keys. People repeatedly look in the same place for their answer
I should add, that I've done several jobs in Thailand in banking, finance etc, and dealt first hand with regulators, compliance, risk, training etc etc. So no, I don't always have a link or quote, just years and knowldge of experinece, here in Asia and other places. Now someone either belives that or not
Edited by fletchsmile, 2011-12-03 19:02:04.
Posted 2011-12-03 19:17:49
On another theme, as posted on another thread, the US financial system is in a bad way
http://www.informati...rticle29858.htm
Not saying I agree this. However, there is a risk of total collapse in the US financial system, and that risk is real.
One of the flip sides of some of the criticisms about Thailand, which do have some validity actually makes it a reasonable place to put some money. Protectionism, nationalism, lack of competetion, too many restrictions, inflexibility etc are annoying sometimes in Thailand, but if it all goes heads up in the US, the Thai banking sector is somewhat insulated from this, and the controls over the Thai banking sector could actually prove a blessing. So it's worth putting a few eggs in the Thai basket.
Those $250k guarantees are worthless if the US financial system collapses. Thailand would be somewhat of a safehaven in comparison:)
BTW Similary should Thailand collapse, it's worth having money elsewhere
misterdowntown
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Posted 2011-12-11 14:33:03
Thanks for the compliment... Be interested to hear what the Thai bank branches in L.A. have to say...
As I said before, I think I asked them that same question by telephone once upon a time...and it was a no-go... But times and things change, so who knows....
Just a Follow up to TallguyjohninBKK on what was advised to me from my questions a few weeks ago. Now in Thailand, No you can't set up a Thai account from the LA Thai bank offices, has not changed,
and never will based on what I got from the person on the other end.
Yes easy to set up account once I got here, already had a lease on condo in hand, passport and entry card, took 30 mins and set. Open account cost 300 baht for set up of
debit card. Have not tried it yet I'm sure it will work just fine.
Now for the transfer of funds, either from my B of A account, or schwab account. Having brought some cash in, no rush, but want to make sure its locked and loaded, so have
no problem.
Have printed out the easy to follow instructions, and will a happy man once the Thai account has been filled.
Again Thank you for this thead, you have made my life just a little bit easier, getting myself set up in Thailand. The internet is a wonderful thing.
Edited by misterdowntown, 2011-12-11 14:34:16.
Posted 2011-12-12 01:37:13
Glad to hear everything's going well thus far... Just be prepared for potential bumps in the road somewhere along the line. But if you don't encounter any, you'll be doing better than most...
If you're using the BKK Bank NY branch for your international transfers headed for a BKK Bank account in Thailand, you can do free domestic ACHs online from Schwab to BKK Bank New York, and then pay BKKB's relatively small fees for the rest of the way...
If you do a domestic ACH out of your BofA account, I believe they'll charge you $3 per outbound transfer, unless you have some kind of special account status with them.
You can also do online international wire transfers out of both BofA and Schwab to any Thai bank account in Thailand. But the fees involved will be different.... particularly on the sending U.S. end.
Depending on whether you're using BKK Bank or a different banking company in Thailand for your local account here, you can compare the relative costs of each approach, depending on the amounts you're planning to send.
Generally speaking, of course, it's more economical to do one larger online ACH or international wire every couple months, vs. doing separate smaller ones month by month.
Unless, the funds you're moving are coming from Social Security or a federal type pension, in which case you can set up an automatic, recurring direct deposit of those monthly payments direct to a BKK Bank Thailand account.
Lastly, since we've been discussing it a lot here lately, keep in mind that any Thai bank debit or credit card you may end up having has very little consumer fraud protections, unlike U.S. issued cards. Basically, in the event of loss or theft of the Thai bank card, you're typically responsible for all charges up to your card's limits prior to when you report the card loss or theft to the bank.
So when you set up any new Thai bank account, make sure to check about what the default daily limits for ATM withdrawals and POS (point of sale) purchases are for that particular card. And then have the Thai bank change them to fit your personal comfort level.
Remember, there basically are no PIN based debit card transactions here for VISA and MC logo debit cards.... everything is swipe and sign...and the merchants rarely bother to ask for ID or even check the signature on the back of people's cards. So if your Thai bank card were to fall into the wrong hands, your accounts could be in serious danger unless you've taken the appropriate precautions ahead of time.
On the flip side of the coin, the Schwab Bank debit card carries full U.S. consumer and anti-fraud liability protections, has no foreign currency fee, and even reimburses the 150 baht fee that Thai banks charge for using their ATMs.... The alternative is to use AEON ATMs, which don't charge the 150 baht foreign card fee but work fine with U.S. VISA and MCs, as a general rule.
Posted 2011-12-13 10:19:17
TallGuy,
My analysis agrees completely with yours. Thai credit cards are a terrible deal in every respect. I made sure to open additional credit cards in the US before I left and now use them all in rotation to make sure that none of them drop me for inactivity. We have a couple of cards that don't charge foreign exchange or annual fees. We also keep only the minimum amounts necessary for monthly expenses in our Thai bank accounts. This all works very well for us.
Keep up the good work.
Posted 2011-12-13 11:24:39
Thanks for the comment, Captain...
Who do you like for no foreign currency fee credit cards?
Posted 2011-12-13 11:25:02
CaptHaddock, on 2011-12-13 10:19:17, said:
TallGuy,
My analysis agrees completely with yours. Thai credit cards are a terrible deal in every respect. I made sure to open additional credit cards in the US before I left and now use them all in rotation to make sure that none of them drop me for inactivity. We have a couple of cards that don't charge foreign exchange or annual fees. We also keep only the minimum amounts necessary for monthly expenses in our Thai bank accounts. This all works very well for us.
Keep up the good work.
Bear in mind that while there is no FX fee, the card issuer will still be making a spread on the FX rate itself so there is still an FX cost that many people overlook. Some card issuers regularly give better rates than others - so might be worth your monitoring the rates you're getting on each of your cards.
Posted 2011-12-13 11:48:44
fletchsmile, on 2011-12-13 11:25:02, said:
CaptHaddock, on 2011-12-13 10:19:17, said:
TallGuy,
My analysis agrees completely with yours. Thai credit cards are a terrible deal in every respect. I made sure to open additional credit cards in the US before I left and now use them all in rotation to make sure that none of them drop me for inactivity. We have a couple of cards that don't charge foreign exchange or annual fees. We also keep only the minimum amounts necessary for monthly expenses in our Thai bank accounts. This all works very well for us.
Keep up the good work.
Bear in mind that while there is no FX fee, the card issuer will still be making a spread on the FX rate itself so there is still an FX cost that many people overlook. Some card issuers regularly give better rates than others - so might be worth your monitoring the rates you're getting on each of your cards.
Fletch, I don't know what kind of foreign bank cards you may have or use... But I'm presuming they're not U.S. issued.
The U.S. debit cards I use
--don't have any foreign currency fee on POS or ATM withdrawals.
--do absorb the 1% card network fee charged by VISA
--do ATM and POS transactions at better rates than the buying TT rates offered by Thai banks, and specifically, usually very close to the Interbank Exchange Rate and/or the same rate that AEON ATMs produce (which are the VISA or MC international network rates).
The same for no fee credit cards such as Capital One and what was the Schwab VISA card until it was killed by Bank of America.
I'm not saying that applies in ALL cases... But I can say it applies in the examples I've cited above... based on years of experience with them.
In other U.S. banks I've dealt with in the past, they typically process foreign transactions using the standard card network established rates (VISA or MC), -- instead of setting their own exchange rates -- but then make their money by charging a foreign currency fee, not absorbing the 1% card networks fee, and/or adding on their own transaction charges, such as $3 or $5 flat fee per foreign ATM withdrawal. Those kinds of banks and accounts, like BofA and many of the U.S. majors, certainly are best to be avoided by expats.
Posted 2011-12-13 12:31:55
TallGuyJohninBKK, on 2011-12-13 11:48:44, said:
fletchsmile, on 2011-12-13 11:25:02, said:
CaptHaddock, on 2011-12-13 10:19:17, said:
TallGuy,
My analysis agrees completely with yours. Thai credit cards are a terrible deal in every respect. I made sure to open additional credit cards in the US before I left and now use them all in rotation to make sure that none of them drop me for inactivity. We have a couple of cards that don't charge foreign exchange or annual fees. We also keep only the minimum amounts necessary for monthly expenses in our Thai bank accounts. This all works very well for us.
Keep up the good work.
Bear in mind that while there is no FX fee, the card issuer will still be making a spread on the FX rate itself so there is still an FX cost that many people overlook. Some card issuers regularly give better rates than others - so might be worth your monitoring the rates you're getting on each of your cards.
Fletch, I don't know what kind of foreign bank cards you may have or use... But I'm presuming they're not U.S. issued.
The U.S. debit cards I use
--don't have any foreign currency fee on POS or ATM withdrawals.
--do absorb the 1% card network fee charged by VISA
--do ATM and POS transactions at better rates than the buying TT rates offered by Thai banks, and specifically, usually very close to the Interbank Exchange Rate and/or the same rate that AEON ATMs produce (which are the VISA or MC international network rates).
The same for no fee credit cards such as Capital One and what was the Schwab VISA card until it was killed by Bank of America.
I'm not saying that applies in ALL cases... But I can say it applies in the examples I've cited above... based on years of experience with them.
In other U.S. banks I've dealt with in the past, they typically process foreign transactions using the standard card network established rates (VISA or MC), -- instead of setting their own exchange rates -- but then make their money by charging a foreign currency fee, not absorbing the 1% card networks fee, and/or adding on their own transaction charges, such as $3 or $5 flat fee per foreign ATM withdrawal. Those kinds of banks and accounts, like BofA and many of the U.S. majors, certainly are best to be avoided by expats.
As mentioned it's not necessarily the fees you have to worry about - not difficult anywhere in the world to find fee free cards. It's the FX rates. As you highlight they can and do vary. That's was the point - simple Wasn't saying any method is better, just watch the rates as they are a hidden cost that people often overlook If you have several cards, compare them. Chances are you'll find some are better than others...
Edited by fletchsmile, 2011-12-13 12:34:51.
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