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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Some of the specifics that make a model like the Lumia 900 a non-starter for me are:
--non user-replaceable battery.
--no SD memory card slot.
--only micro SIM slot.

[lomatopo]

WSJ article:

http://online.wsj.co...3721205630.html

HELSINKI—In the first test of Nokia Corp.'s turnaround plan, the handset maker said sales of its first Windows smartphones were off to a good start even as its overall shipments continued to slide. Chief Executive Stephen Elop said Nokia sold well over one million of its new Windows-based Lumia handsets in the quarter. He pledged to bring the Lumia series to additional markets including China and Latin America in the first half of 2012 to further boost sales.

Despite the introduction of the Lumia, Nokia's overall smartphone shipments fell 31% to 19.6 million in the holiday quarter. By comparison, Apple Inc. said iPhone shipments more than doubled to 37 million in the same period from a year earlier.

Mr. Elop last year embarked on a strategy to use Windows software to regain market share, after his company struggled to compete with the iPhone and smartphones using Google Inc.'s Android software with its Symbian software. On Thursday, he said that due to competition from Chinese manufacturers in particular, the company would sell fewer Symbian smartphones than originally planned.  Sales in Nokia's key Devices & Services unit fell 29% to around €6 billion in the quarter, as average handset prices declined to €53 from €69 a year ago. Nokia's feature-phone units slipped 1% to 93.9 million. The company said its Devices & Services profit would be "around break-even" for the first quarter.

[lleviathan]

lomatopo, on 2012-01-27 09:04:19, said:

nikster, on 2012-01-26 23:15:40, said:

I still don't know what the selling argument for Windows Phone might be... why would anyone buy this? If "because it's cheap" is the only answer, I see a bleak future ahead. "Because it's almost as good as Android" doesn't sound too convincing either...

It seems like Nokia's WMP value props. are:

it's not iOS or Android
it's different
the world wants a "3rd ecosystem"

and as you identify,

it's cheap


I'm not sure those assure the company of even a passing chance at success?


While I find the WMP UI interesting, just from watching Youtube videos, it seems like it might appeal to children, cool big, blocks and the elderly who are visually challenged by smaller type/displays?

I've been an android user since 2010. My experience with Android has been really poor. I bought into it because I wanted more flexibility than IOS, but quickly discovered that what I gained in flexibility I lost in quality. Granted I have an early generation phone (Milestone/Droid), but I've spent WAY too much time maintaining my phone - hacking, custom ROMs, etc, to either get a feature or two that I wanted from a newer version of Android, or just to get it to stay on all day without rebooting and force closing.

I still don't really want an iPhone. I am not a fan of the interface, nor am I fan of the lack of glance-able information. WP7 appeals to me because it has a different take on a smartphone interface, faster access to the information I use the most, an awesome email client, and tighter control over the hardware it runs on than android. I no longer want to buy a phone that lets me install an app that slows my phone down or eats battery life. I am savvy enough to fix that, but I don't want to have to.

The fact that WP7 is streamlined enough to be fast and fluid on lesser hardware is good in my books. If I can get a phone that feels fast to use all the time, why should I care how many cores it has, or about the processor speed. If it costs less because it's more efficient, I still win. I'd rather pay around 10k baht for a shiny new phone than around 20k.

That "big coloured blocks" interface will be all over PC's by the end of 2012, alla Windows 8


Check out this "smoked by windows phone" competition.

[MJo]

nikster, on 2012-01-26 23:15:40, said:

I still don't know what the selling argument for Windows Phone might be... why would anyone buy this? If "because it's cheap" is the only answer, I see a bleak future ahead. "Because it's almost as good as Android" doesn't sound too convincing either...

  you see a bleak future only coz you are hardcore iBeliever.

Seriously, i've been using Lumia 800 now for over a month and i like it a lot. Easy and no hassle. Also good looking and very comfortable in hand and in use. Sure there is still some features missing but it will catch up. People forget but it was the same case with iPhone and Android when they came to market. Took time for them as well to pick up some speed and have all basic features in.

People often say WP is crap, without ever seeing one or using one. Just based on their acquired opinion that everything else is shite apart from the OS they happen to be using at the time. Human nature to justify their decision to purchase a particular device.

The Metro UI is totally different that you've seen before. Nothing to do with MS windows OS world. At least not until Windows 8 comes available which will have the same UI. Anyways it's faster and much more sleek looking than my previous HTC with Android. To be honest it's not that much different than iOS or Android. Somewhere between, not totally closed as iOS and not a geek phone as Androind. I.e. there is no need to tweak it and customize all the time. Stuff works out of the box.

One superior feature for me is the full integration to corporate Outlook. You can search company address books etc from exchange server etc. Will help winning some corporate customers. Cons for now is no wifi hotspot support and Nokia maps sync with cloud is still not there for your favorites and routes. Works on Symbian but not yet with WP.

iOS is not for me due it's closed and iTunes etc but has lot of cool features, Android also has some good stuff and now i have found some from WP as well. It's good 3rd option and as some analysts predict, might very well end up taking 30% of the market in few years time. Time will tell but i'm pretty sure all three will survive and make some money.

As for Nokia's results there is no WP in those figures yet. It was only for sale in one or two countries in Europe and Singapore got it just before x-mas. Also Elop stated last week that they are half way thru the transition. What comes selling cheap have to remember that Lumia 800 is by no means high end device. There's rumours of 910 coming this year with 12MP camera (improved 900) but i'd expect something really high end towards end of 2012 or early 2013 with WP8. And hopefully one with proper qwerty as well.

Read somewhere that Nokia confirmed over one million Lumia sales so considering it was out only in couple of countries for a month or so it's not bad. Would be interesting to compare with first iPhone and the first Android "Google" phone figures for first two months.

[MJo]

And just found this. Amazing and works also to open applications and make calls etc. Very usefull i.e. when driving. No need to browse menus.

[lennois]

nikster, on 2012-01-26 23:15:40, said:

I still don't know what the selling argument for Windows Phone might be... why would anyone buy this? If "because it's cheap" is the only answer, I see a bleak future ahead. "Because it's almost as good as Android" doesn't sound too convincing either...

If by 'cheap' you mean runs smoother than android on a device with half the specs -  well yes, you'd be right, and I'm not quite sure why that paints a bleak picture for you.

Edited by lennois, 2012-01-29 00:54:18.

[lomatopo]

MJo, on 2012-01-28 22:39:21, said:

And just found this. Amazing and works also to open applications and make calls etc. Very usefull i.e. when driving. No need to browse menus.

Android has had speech-to-text and speech/voice reco. for ~ 18 months. It is a hugely valuable feature and I use it all the time, across many applications. It's good to see WMP is trying to add this feature sometime in the future, and that Samsung Windows Phone looks pretty cool. Google Translate comes in handy here too.

nikster, on 2012-01-26 23:15:40, said:

If by 'cheap' you mean runs smoother than android on a device with half the specs -  well yes, you'd be right, and I'm not quite sure why that paints a bleak picture for you.

Cheap means low margin, hence the bleakness, Nokia sold about half as many phones as Apple in Q4 ( 19 million vs. 37 million). Nokia lost money, Apple made so much they'll have to give it away later this year (dividend). Apple makes a lot of money on each phone they sell, apparently Nokia loses a little bit on every phone they sell. Nokia, I assume based on all they've said publicly, wants to sell higher-end phones.


Integration with Windows/Outlook does seem like it would help in the corporate market, but clearly Apple and Android have been successful without this, while RIM has been more successful than MSFT or NOK.A in the corporate mobile segment. I guess our point is that MSFT and NOK have to do more than just match Android and Apple in order to make up ~ 2 years of lost ground, or re-arrange the landscape/leap-frog to a new type of device.

[MJo]

Loma, also iPhone has speech features in Siri and actually far superior compared to Android or WP. Note: WP is not going to add it in the future, it is there and has been there for a while now. That's what i meant on judging without even taking a look of the device / SW.

One thing on these speech features is that all those search etc functions seem to work pretty good in USA and maybe in UK. Other countries and especially non English speaking countries not much use. Needs data connection as well, I'm in Africa at the moment and with these data connections it's limited to opening applications and making calls. Trying to do sms just times out and as non native speaker makes lot of mistakes if data is there. But very good on hands free calls from car.

Apple makes lot of money per device for sure, that's the whole point with the cult they have build. Committed fans pay premium to have apple logo on their phones and popularity and media hype get's more to the wagon. Very clever marketing and branding. Product is good but nearly as good as they make people believe in. And also Nokia benefits, they get around $5 for every iPhone sold as compensation from Apple using their patents. Plus they get quite a bit from MS for every WP device they sell.

Lately though there has been quite a bit of complains in media that Apple is recycling same old stuff, so if the new one comes out with same same they might lose market share. But it all depends how the iPhone 5 looks like and when it's gonna be out.

For catching up, i'd say year from now there is movement but it takes two to three years to see where the market shares settle in longer run. Providing no one comes up with new totally superior software.

[lennois]

lomatopo, on 2012-01-29 08:12:52, said:

Cheap means low margin, hence the bleakness, Nokia sold about half as many phones as Apple in Q4 ( 19 million vs. 37 million). Nokia lost money, Apple made so much they'll have to give it away later this year (dividend). Apple makes a lot of money on each phone they sell, apparently Nokia loses a little bit on every phone they sell. Nokia, I assume based on all they've said publicly, wants to sell higher-end phones.

Not necessarily. If it's 3K cheaper to make a WP7 phone than an android one giving the same user experience, then you can sell it 3K cheaper with the same margin (doesn't apply to mugs who buy phones on specs alone.)

Nokia are probably gonna be pretty aggressive with their WP pricing as they try to gain a foothold with WP.

Yes we all know Nokia is struggling - hence moving to wp, not because of it.

[MJo]

First platform payments from MS to Nokia $250M, could it be $250 per phone ?

http://www.slashgear...phone-26210827/


$99.99 Lumia 900. Cheap or just heavily subsidized?

http://www.bgr.com/2...18th-for-99-99/

[lomatopo]

I believe MSFT agreed to pay NOK 1 Billion USD to swing with WMP exclusively? The 250 million USD is probably the first bar-fine?

The AT&T Lumia is both cheap and heavily subsidized. Most expected it to be $199 which will lead customers to wonder what's wrong with it. AT&T sales reps. are also being heavily spiffed.

When you are two years late in the tech game you either have to buy market share or leap frog the competition with a game-changing device. Obviously neither MSFT or NOK are nimble competitors, more like mastodons.

Apple just recorded the most profitable quarter ever, by any corporation.. The only people complaining are FoxConn employees, and people who don't own AAPL. Apple sold twice as many phones as Nokia in Q4, and made a ton of cash on each one sold. By all accounts Apple could have sold 50 million iPhones in Q4 but how those folks in Chengdu can only work like 100 hours per week, slackers.

Edited by lomatopo, 2012-01-30 21:39:25.

[MJo]

lomatopo, on 2012-01-30 21:28:07, said:

I believe MSFT agreed to pay NOK 1 Billion USD to swing with WMP exclusively? The 250 million USD is probably the first bar-fine?

The AT&T Lumia is both cheap and heavily subsidized. Most expected it to be $199 which will lead customers to wonder what's wrong with it. AT&T sales reps. are also being heavily spiffed.

When you are two years late in the tech game you either have to buy market share or leap frog the competition with a game-changing device. Obviously neither MSFT or NOK are nimble competitors, more like mastodons.

Apple just recorded the most profitable quarter ever, by any corporation.. The only people complaining are FoxConn employees, and people who don't own AAPL. Apple sold twice as many phones as Nokia in Q4, and made a ton of cash on each one sold. By all accounts Apple could have sold 50 million iPhones in Q4 but how those folks in Chengdu can only work like 100 hours per week, slackers.

Based on response on tech sites the Yanks are loving it for 99.99. And again bit daft to say the phone and OS is useless when you haven't even seen one. I have it in my pocket now and as said before it is good OS and very solid good looking phone. Miles better than anything Android. Also 99% of smartphone users don't get a kick from updating their ROM's every morning. For basic user who wants out of the box working device it will be preferred over Android.

For Foxconn employees the main issues seems to be that Steve & Co treats them as slaves and can get replacement fast enough for those who jump from the factory roofs. Corporate responsibility and all that comes to mind. But it's all good for Nokia, $5 for every iPhone sold goes to Nokia so let them sell. All in all they will be the marginal supplier in the long run, just like in PC's. It happened to Nokia and it has happened to Apple before. They will fall and hit the floor hard, just matter of time. Same is going to happen for Evil Google

[MJo]

Oh, forgot. It was not "one billion dollars" but "billions of dollars". The value of their deal i mean....

[lomatopo]

MJo, on 2012-01-30 22:00:08, said:

Based on response on tech sites the Yanks are loving it for 99.99.

I think the Nokia Lumia 900 will be available from AT&T on March 18, 2012 so any love remains unrequited.

Millions of people have Android devices and they work out of the box.

Yes, the MSFT and NOK relationship is complex...

The report also says that Microsoft gave Nokia EUR 180 million (which Nokia converted in its report to USD $250 million) in platform support payments during the quarter. Nokia and Microsoft have a partnership in which Windows Phone is the operating system on most of Nokia's smartphones. Microsoft pays Nokia platform support payments for that; and Nokia pays software royalty payments to Microsoft. Elop's report says that "over the life of the agreement, both the platform support payments and the minimum software royalty commitments are expected to measure in the billions of US Dollars."

I wonder how much Nokia paid Microsoft for software royalties in the quarter?


And I love this classic quote:

But it's all good for Nokia, $5 for every iPhone sold goes to Nokia so let them sell.

Anyone who thinks this is OK is daft.

[MJo]

Tech sites, tech sites, when you read the comments it's positive and lot of interest and people think it's good value for money. Negatives mainly hardcore iFans or Android trolls bashing everyone. Then when you look the over million sold in two months or so it's not that bad. First iPhone took something like two and half months to sell million. First Android probably never reached that mark.

My previous phone was Android. And i liked it but wanted something else. It powers up out of the box, setting your accounts is much more complex than in WP. Also to get all your widgets etc customized so that it is usable is time consuming and not that simple as it is in WP. Just try it out and tell us what you think. I like especially the feeling the one pcs body and curved glass gives to you. Very solid. I though my HTC was solid but the Lumia is something else.

Nokia pays much less than others. ZTE revealed they pay $26 or something per device. Not bothered to googl.... sorry... bing it now Anyhoo that the point, they are partners with MS getting privileges like low licencing fees and actually participate on the development together with MS.

Daft or not, i'd happily take fiver for every iPhone sold. It's most likely based on some old patent Nokia got in the -90's so who cares. Free lunch on top of the one time payments Apple already paid earlier last year.

[lomatopo]

MJo, on 2012-01-31 21:48:58, said:

Daft or not, i'd happily take fiver for every iPhone sold. It's most likely based on some old patent Nokia got in the -90's so who cares. Free lunch on top of the one time payments Apple already paid earlier last year.

No problem, this is just so reminiscent of Nokia management philosophy which I heard so much when I worked there. A kind of sad but smug resignation to feeling powerless against the changing tides and competition.


The HTC Titan from AT&T, a Windows Phone available now, seems to be getting quite positive reviews from real, live consumers. Priced at $199, under contract.


This should help on the cost side, eventually Nokia Siemens to cut 2,900 jobs in Germany & 1,200 in Finland.



And T-Mobile (USA) has dropped the price of the Nokia Lumia 710 from $49.95 to $39.95, some decent reviews, again from consumers who have the phone.

http://www.phonearen...-rebate_id26445

http://www.t-mobile....Lumia-710-Black

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Maybe we need to start a newly titled thread here...something along the lines of...

Microsoft and Nokia trying to sell a lot of Windows Mobile phones... cheap.

[MJo]

Agree, for those who missed the news, it was just a hoax.


Nokia death rumors take Thaivisa by storm
Bangkok 2011-08-12 18:22

The internet site Thaivisa is absolutely ablaze today with rumors that Nokia, world leading mobile phone manufacturer died today of unknown causes.

The rumors kicked off after a thread started by ex-employee quoting insider sources and apple centric forums reporting Nokia's decision to close shop immediately due to lower than expected sales volumes in it's oncoming Windows based mobile devices due to be introduced later this year.  

You would think that replies from Nokia itself would put an end to all of the fuss, but it didn’t. Since then, several industry expert members have expressed their personal preferences and bleak predictions on Nokia's future, which has prompted some to believe the rumor could still be true.

Some are even pointing at Nokia’s language in their reply, using the word “unconfirmed” over “false”, to suggest there could be some credibility to the rumors – all of this sounds like grasping at straws to me, and that’s putting it lightly.

Granted, nothing is confirmed one way or another at this point, but there is no reason to believe, at least as of right now, that Nokia has actually passed away – so for now, you can rest easy and continue trading.

Should this rumor turn out to be true, however unlikely that may be, we’ll be sure to let you know.

Edited for clarity

via iBelieve

Edited by MJo, 2012-02-02 03:25:31.

[Gary A]

I have been a Nokia defender for a number of years. The Nokia hardware was bullet proof and ALL the phones, even the cheap ones had excellent audio quality. Less than a year ago I advised a friend to buy a Nokia because of that. His phone began to lose the signal and got to the point that it would not pick up any signal. He did return it to Telewiz who told him to take it to a Nokia service center. He told them that he bought the phone there and if it needs to go to Nokia service, they should send it. He is now waiting to talk to the shop owner. I had a cheaper Nokia, (2100 baht) I used for a backup and Nokia Suite wanted me to update the phone software. I downloaded the 40 GB and it went into the install. I got a fault that said the update failed. The phone is now totally dead. I took it to the shop where I bought it and the service guy said there was a short on the main board. It is not worth repairing. The phone was about a year and a half old. He advised me to buy a new phone.

I did buy a new backup phone, a cheap clam shell Samsung. As with other Samsung phones I have had, the audio quality sucks. I did buy another relatively cheap Samsung touch screen. I hate touch screens and the audio on that phone sucks too. (My hearing is not the best). My wife is using it as her main phone and likes the touch screen. My main phone, a Nokia E52 is getting old and I'd like to find a replacement before it dies. There are NO high quality clam shell smart phones on the market. I DON"T want a qwerty keyboard and I don't want a touch screen.

As the Nokia phones seem to be no longer be bullet proof, they have little advantage going for them. I am at a loss as to what to buy. I was hoping someone would build a high quality smart phone without a touchscreen. I was hoping the touch screens were just a fad but I was apparently wrong. I DON"T want to charge the battery every day. I do like and use a few of the smart phone features but not that many. I want a 3.5mm audio jack, good battery life, a memory card, a good camera and good audio qualities.

Are there any touch screen phones that won't go crazy if I accidentally touch the screen? Please don't suggest an iPhone because I don't like their proprietary business practices. I'm not a techie.

[lomatopo]

^ I would look for second models which you've found to be bullet-proof in the past, or buy a new E52. I'm sure you can find one?

Have you looked through the Nokia catalog?

Asha 300? C5-00?

[Gary A]

lomatopo, on 2012-02-04 16:25:41, said:

^ I would look for second models which you've found to be bullet-proof in the past, or buy a new E52. I'm sure you can find one?

Have you looked through the Nokia catalog?

Asha 300? C5-00?

Neither have WiFi. Maybe close but not the complete deal.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So it seems you want:

--Long battery life
--wifi
--no QWERTY keyboard
--3.5mm audio jack with good audio
--a good camera
--memory card

--prefer clam-shell style, is that right?
--prefer non-touchscreen, but can accept one if necessary.

Does that sum it up fairly?

You might try using this Phone Finder search function to narrow your choices and play with different configurations as suit your priorities:

http://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3

It's not a clamshell, but here's one that seems to fit your other criteria:

http://www.gsmarena....ia_n79-2497.php

Edited by TallGuyJohninBKK, 2012-02-05 08:29:08.

[lomatopo]

Gary A, on 2012-02-05 08:11:40, said:

lomatopo, on 2012-02-04 16:25:41, said:

^ I would look for second models which you've found to be bullet-proof in the past, or buy a new E52. I'm sure you can find one?

Have you looked through the Nokia catalog?

Asha 300? C5-00?

Neither have WiFi. Maybe close but not the complete deal.

X3-02
C3-01

I am pretty sure you could find a new E52 if you wanted to have it handy?

Edited by lomatopo, 2012-02-05 09:08:41.

[Gary A]

TallGuyJohninBKK, on 2012-02-05 08:22:03, said:

So it seems you want:

--Long battery life
--wifi
--no QWERTY keyboard
--3.5mm audio jack with good audio
--a good camera
--memory card

--prefer clam-shell style, is that right?
--prefer non-touchscreen, but can accept one if necessary.

Does that sum it up fairly?

You might try using this Phone Finder search function to narrow your choices and play with different configurations as suit your priorities:

http://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3

It's not a clamshell, but here's one that seems to fit your other criteria:

http://www.gsmarena....ia_n79-2497.php

If all else fails, I'll likely try to buy another E52 off eBay. The E52 has much better battery life than the N79.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Saw this news release item re Nokia and MWC in Barcelona, Spain.

Quote

On Monday, February 27, the first day of Mobile World Congress, Nokia (NYSE: NOK) will host a press conference, where it will announce significant industry news. [???] The press conference will be hosted by Stephen Elop, Nokia's president and CEO. Due to the pending public transportation disruption, doors will be opened, and accredited media admitted starting at 08:00 a.m. CET.

....

For those unable to attend, we will offer a live webcast of the press conference at: www.nokia.com/mwc"

The direct link for the webcast starting at 8:30 am CET (Barcelona, Spain time) Monday is here. It looks like Spain time is 6 hours earlier from Thailand, meaning it will be 2:30 am Monday Thai time:

http://www.nokia.com...st-mwc/webcast/