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[janverbeem]

For my new house I purchased a whole house water filter from BK-water ( Masterpure).As I have water from a borehole I researched this filter system for almost a year as it doesn't come cheap.I choose for the A7 which is the topmodel being fully automatic,designed for well water sources as it will remove the heavy metals and most important the calcium from the water since calcium will destroy your electric appliances.
I had my water tested at the company and it has a calcium content of 130 ppm,which isn't too bad.

Included with the waterfilter is a salt containe,which is used to regenerate the filter media which get's saturated with the calcium.This regenerating and back washing needs to be programmed and is done fully automaticly.Normal house with a family will need to regenerate every 2 days,according to their manual.

As I did my research and visited their dealers umpteen times,I always asked how often this salt container needed to be refilled.

Their answer was always with normal use, backwash every 2 days,the salt will last 6 to 12 months.

So last month the technicians from BK-water came to install the filter,but as the house is not in full use yet they set to backwash automatically every 7 days because this is the highest setting possible.

Then last week I took a look at the salt container and to my surprise it was completely empty,it had done only 3 backwashes by then.I called the service center immediately and got answers that this was normal,however they would send a technician.

Technicians came on Sunday,checked the system and told me that everything was normal.I told them that were yet only 3 backwashes and the salt tank was empty already.Their answer was that this was normal as a usual household,backwash every 2 days,would need 3 fillings of salt A MONTH,at 250 baht each.

So instead of 250 baht every 6-12 moths it will cost me 750 Baht every month only to maintain the salt level,we are not talking about the other filter media that has to be replaced now and then,and the investement of 28.000 Baht.
I'm sure it will be impossible to spend 750 Baht a month on clean water from the public water company.

On my response that I was always told 1 filling every 6-12 months they commented that this was impossible.

So back I went to the Masterpure shop and asked about the salt container and again I was told that it would last 6-12 months.

As this is a scam in my eyes I have requested back my money by phone to the customer service and been told to request by email.Of course after sending the email everything is dead quiet at he other end.

Now what are my chances to recover my money and how should I proceed ?I have a recorded voice conversation with the manager of a Masterpure shop in which he answers my question that the salt container should last 6 months.The recording was made after the problem was reported.

Edited by janverbeem, 2011-09-05 20:29:12.

[janverbeem]

Isn't there really anybody who has experience with wholehouse filters and can tell if it is normal that one would need 120 Kg of salt a month to regenerate the filtermedia in a normal household. e.g. using about 1000 Liters a day of water.

[Crossy]

Let's try this in the housing forum where it may get more attention.

Are you really using 1000L of water a day? We probably use that in a week with two in the house.

EDIT A bit of research on the web suggests that this type of filter (not specifically Masterpure) uses between 40 and 200g of salt per Litre of ion-exchange resin per backwash cycle. If you know how much resin your unit contains you can guestimate the salt consumption.

Is there a 'low salt' setting on the controller?

[janverbeem]

Crossy, on 2011-09-06 10:15:28, said:

Let's try this in the housing forum where it may get more attention.

Are you really using 1000L of water a day? We probably use that in a week with two in the house.

I think I'm not but i'm taking this as an example for the setting they recommend and which would require regenerating every 2 days.

According to the sales person in every Master pure affiliate 1 bag of 40 Kg salt would last 6-12 months with these setting.

According to the technician,and my experience with my unit,I would need 3 bags of 40 kg every month

[janverbeem]

Crossy the filter contains 19 Kg of media,a mixture of zeolite,resin and sand.Biggest part of the media is zeolite.

There is no low salt setting on the controller.I only found out because I opened the salt container after only 3 backwashes and the salt was completely gonne,the water didn't taste salty at all.

Edit: I'm a bit confused with your conversion of liter of ion exchange and the amount of resinn in the filter.

The dimension of the filter are 350 x 350 x 1340

The volume of the filtermedia is 320 x 320 x 365

Total weight of the filtermedia is 19 Kg.

Edited by janverbeem, 2011-09-06 10:39:45.

[Crossy]

The figures came from another manufacturers data, I did minimal research just to give us some idea of the order of magnitude of salt consumption.

Your filter contains about 37 Litres of media, let's say that 1/2 this is exchange resin (which is the bit the salt regenerates) so that's 18 Litres.  

Using the worst case numbers above that would use 3.7kg of salt per backwash.

I'm no expert, just an engineer, so I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions, but you are using significantly more than that amount of salt.

Unfortunately the Masterpure website http://www.masterpure.com/id20.html is decidedly limited on its technical data so things like salt consumption etc are just not available there.

Hopefully someone with experience of this type of filter will pop up soon.

As to getting your money back, IMHO you stand little to no chance. Thailand has minimal consumer protection law and, whilst I've been lucky with getting defective products replaced, the dealers I've dealt with have been reasonably customer oriented and knew I'd come back, many others have just given up.

[JoePai]

Crossy, on 2011-09-06 10:15:28, said:

Let's try this in the housing forum where it may get more attention.

Are you really using 1000L of water a day? We probably use that in a week with two in the house.

EDIT A bit of research on the web suggests that this type of filter (not specifically Masterpure) uses between 40 and 200g of salt per Litre of ion-exchange resin per backwash cycle. If you know how much resin your unit contains you can guestimate the salt consumption.

Is there a 'low salt' setting on the controller?

200 litres a day/person is not unreasonable so if there are a few in the household ............................

[hadders]

I have had the same unit fitted at my house for about a year and had the same problems with the backwash using all the salt.
The technician did exactly the same as yours and reprogrammed the unit to backwash once per week.
I would say that we have to replenish our salt every 2 - 3 weeks.
Don't buy your salt from the company, it's way too expensive. Go down to your local market and buy the sacks of salt there, we are paying about 80 baht a sack up here in Pak Chong.

[janverbeem]

Crossy, on 2011-09-06 11:21:18, said:

The figures came from another manufacturers data, I did minimal research just to give us some idea of the order of magnitude of salt consumption.

Your filter contains about 37 Litres of media, let's say that 1/2 this is exchange resin (which is the bit the salt regenerates) so that's 18 Litres.  

Using the worst case numbers above that would use 3.7kg of salt per backwash.

I'm no expert, just an engineer, so I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions, but you are using significantly more than that amount of salt.

Unfortunately the Masterpure website http://www.masterpure.com/id20.html is decidedly limited on its technical data so things like salt consumption etc are just not available there.

Hopefully someone with experience of this type of filter will pop up soon.

As to getting your money back, IMHO you stand little to no chance. Thailand has minimal consumer protection law and, whilst I've been lucky with getting defective products replaced, the dealers I've dealt with have been reasonably customer oriented and knew I'd come back, many others have just given up.

Thanks for the calculation Crossy.indeed I will have used at least a five fold of that amount each backwash otherwise the salt could not have been finished in only 3 backwashes.

I know that there is not much of a consumer protection,but what would you think if I took this case to court with the recorded evidence of the conversation where the manager of the masterpure shop identifies himself and states that it should last at least 6 months?

I have called them earlier today,but as usual they talking wind as I'm used already from Thai company's.

[janverbeem]

hadders, on 2011-09-06 17:10:06, said:

I have had the same unit fitted at my house for about a year and had the same problems with the backwash using all the salt.
The technician did exactly the same as yours and reprogrammed the unit to backwash once per week.
I would say that we have to replenish our salt every 2 - 3 weeks.
Don't buy your salt from the company, it's way too expensive. Go down to your local market and buy the sacks of salt there, we are paying about 80 baht a sack up here in Pak Chong.

Thanks for the heads up,Hadders,were you also told before the purchase that it would last 6-12 months?

How many kilo's in a sack of 80 Baht?

Edited by janverbeem, 2011-09-06 17:38:11.

[hadders]

I was away when the unit was bought and fitted, my wife organized it all, so not sure what the 'salesman' said.
At first we bought the salt as you do from 'Masterpure', then a friend mentioned that I could buy sacks of salt
from the local market in Pak Chong for 80 baht. I would say that each sack must weigh around 35 kg 'ish.
One Sack will fill the salt tank.

[janverbeem]

Crossy, on 2011-09-06 10:15:28, said:

Let's try this in the housing forum where it may get more attention.

Are you really using 1000L of water a day? We probably use that in a week with two in the house.

EDIT A bit of research on the web suggests that this type of filter (not specifically Masterpure) uses between 40 and 200g of salt per Litre of ion-exchange resin per backwash cycle. If you know how much resin your unit contains you can guestimate the salt consumption.

Is there a 'low salt' setting on the controller?

Crossy,I'm not a technician,but it seems that you have that knowledge.

Do you think that the amount of salt used could be lowered,without affecting the regenerating process,by reducing the size of the feedline between the salt container and the filter?

Which is the factor that stipulates the amount of salt used per liter of ion exchange?Would it be the quality of the resin,quality of the salt or the size of the feeding lines.As far as I can find out it isn't possible to reduce the cycle time the filter backwashes when set to automatic.

[janverbeem]

Quick Update.


Today I got fully refunded by Masterpure for the purchase of their waterfilter.

They had laughed with me for several months when I warned them that I would go to court,mand didn't even answered the phone anymore when I was calling.

Mid december I went to the office of consumer protection board, on the advise of Sunbelt Asia, they listened to my complaints and called them up right away.

Within 3 days I had a phone call from the same lady who refused to answer my calls for several months and at once I was Khun now.She announced me that the company would make a full refund without exception.

Serves them right for telling lies to customers.