438 replies to this topic
Posted 2007-08-21 12:24:19
 Cheeky Farang, on 2005-11-08 16:28:41, said:
Explorer, on 2005-11-08 14:49:18, said:
Maybe the answer is for the POSTER of words is to include a English word or saying and UNDERLINE the section to indicate the pronounced word they have given.
Ie
fun = teeth or tooth
(I had FUN at the fair today)
Khaw-Thort = sorry / excuse me
(The rook makes a CAW sound, this is what I was TAUGHT at school) Pronounce as one word
Chock-Dee = good luck
(The last CHOCK was taken away by Cyn DEE so the vehicle could move)
See-Far = the color blue
(I can't SEE to FAR in the mist of the night)
Ling - monkey (generic name)
(Today on a fishing trip I caught a LING fish)
Gin-Jock = geko
(I drink GIN and tonic, but my scottish friend JOCK drinks beer) Pronounce as one word
tor-a-sap = telephone
(i TORE some bark from A tree and I could see the SAP dripping down) Pronounce as one word
Any one any thoughts on this idea, but for sure WE do need to use one format here, the problem is many Thai words have no English equivalent, but we should be able to get many many basic words on this thread.
Cheers
CF
As a complete beginner I think that this is a brilliant way of guiding us into speaking Thai; albeit at the basic level - but you've got to start somewhere!. I've bought numerous books, but find the explanations of how to pronunciate the words to be almost meanigless and the above is (for me) very helpful. I take the point that we (English speakers) all have our own different pronunciations ( dialects) but surely the same will apply to any language and if we get it 90% correct at least we stand a chance of having it corrected by a fluent Thai speaker. Let's have more of the above please and thank you 'Cheeky Farang' for your valued input to this forum.
Posted 2007-08-21 15:11:16
Accepting the transliteration scheme above, a couple clarifications:
The Thai word for "luck" is not CHOCK, but CHOKE.
The second syllable for gecko is not JOCK, but JOKE.
In both cases, the English "long /o/" is comparable, although the sound is more drawn out in the first, while being a shorter, stressed sound in the second.
Posted 2007-08-21 15:41:59
Quote The Thai word for "luck" is not CHOCK, but CHOKE.
Agreed. The system uses 'oke' for long sara o, and 'ock' for short sara o.
Quote The second syllable for gecko is not JOCK, but JOKE.
It's a short vowel in Thai, so for that reason I believe 'jock' is a better option. (I'd transcribe it as jîngjòk or [LF]jing[SL]jok)
Posted 2007-08-21 17:29:15
meadish_sweetball, on 2007-08-21 15:41:59, said: Quote The Thai word for "luck" is not CHOCK, but CHOKE.
Agreed. The system uses 'oke' for long sara o, and 'ock' for short sara o.
Quote The second syllable for gecko is not JOCK, but JOKE.
It's a short vowel in Thai, so for that reason I believe 'jock' is a better option. (I'd transcribe it as jîngjòk or [LF]jing[SL]jok)
Perhaps the muddle between our versions lies the semantics of "long" and "short." When we talk about Thai vowels, those terms refer only to the length of the sound, but do not change basic pronunciation; in English, however, the terms "long" and "short" indicate very different pronunciations of the vowel itself, not just length of the same vowel sound.
In English, a "short O" refers to the vowel sound in NOT, while the "long O" is the sound used in NOTE. The difference between the two is far more than just the duration of the vowel: they are mutually exclusive vowel sounds. (Thus is it a bit misleading to say that English only has five vowels; it has five vowel-letters, but many different vowel sounds, depending on the other letters, and palcement of them, in words; plus the particular historical origin of that word, etc. Thai vowels, on the other hand, are generally phonetic: what you see is what you say.)
The name JOCK has the same basic vowel sound as NOT - or the /a/ in FATHER. Even when allowing for any differences in dialects, Scottish or whatever, I fail to see how JOCK could ever represent the sound that a Thai person makes when saying "jing-jok" (which is also my own preferred transliteration of it).
Transliteration is imperfect in so many ways, but the point of it is to approximate the sounds that are recognizable to the speaker of the language it is being translated into, not from. In the example at hand, it may be best to explain it to an English-speaker something like this: "say JOKE - but remember to keep the sound short, low and crisp."
In short, (excuse the pun), there is a huge difference in the way you shape your mouth when pronouncing the long and short O's in English. In Thai, that difference does not exist, at least not in any greatly discernible way. But in English, when you say NOT, and NOTE - and also take note of the shape of your mouth - which one best approximates the Thai vowel sound?
It's not NOT.
Cheers.
Posted 2007-08-21 17:47:08
A simple way to dispel "the system" that uses "-ock" for that short Thai /o/ vowel:
Tick-tock, the "gin-jock" ran up the clock.
If those three words all rhyme, then I need to visit an ear-doctor, immediately.
Either that, or the users of "the system" are not speaking Thai.
Cheers.
Posted 2007-08-21 17:49:02
Yes, I take your point about vowel quality - it is just as important as length, and the vowel sound of 'jock' is not perfect in this respect - I just think that all things considered it would be better than 'joke'.
We've had transcription debates before and there are almost as many transcription suggestions as there are people.
Quote The name JOCK has the same basic vowel sound as NOT - or the /a/ in FATHER
Your reasoning leads me to think your English pronunciation is on the American side where the vowel 'jock' is not a short staccato sound as it would be in R.P. English. So sure, with that starting point my suggestions seem even more incorrect. But there are quite a few major English dialects, including R.P. where the 'a' in father and the vowel 'o' in 'jock' are not pronounced the same.
My main point though is that 'joke' is generally not short enough to represent the Thai sound at the end of 'jingjok' either - and again, in R.P. English the 'o' in joke is a distinctly diphthongised sound (or 'vowel glide' if you will) that works poorly for Thai (since the vowel quality should be constant).
Posted 2007-08-21 18:11:40
meadish_sweetball, on 2007-08-21 17:49:02, said: Yes, I take your point about vowel quality - it is just as important as length, and the vowel sound of 'jock' is not perfect in this respect - I just think that all things considered it would be better than 'joke'.
We've had transcription debates before and there are almost as many transcription suggestions as there are people.
Quote The name JOCK has the same basic vowel sound as NOT - or the /a/ in FATHER
Your reasoning leads me to think your English pronunciation is on the American side where the vowel 'jock' is not a short staccato sound as it would be in R.P. English. So sure, with that starting point my suggestions seem even more incorrect. But there are quite a few major English dialects, including R.P. where the 'a' in father and the vowel 'o' in 'jock' are not pronounced the same.
My main point though is that 'joke' is generally not short enough to represent the Thai sound at the end of 'jingjok' either - and again, in R.P. English the 'o' in joke is a distinctly diphthongised sound (or 'vowel glide' if you will) that works poorly for Thai (since the vowel quality should be constant).
Thanks. I see your point, too.
Yet I must insist (for the last time, I promise), that in the Queen's English, Scottish English, Cockney English, Kiwi English, African English, New "Yaawk" English, or any other English imaginable, these words do not rhyme:
Tick-tock, the "gin-jock" ran up the clock.
I press the point because, how many farangs do you know actually pronounce the Thai word for "island" correctly? Be honest about it. Even among those who speak Thai very well, many will fall down on that one.
I blame bad transliteration, from the outset. It's like a virus: very difficult to get rid of one you've been infected.
Cheers - I mean this all in good fun, and the unending search for elusive clarity.
Posted 2007-08-21 18:26:40
Grumpy, he awoke
dam_n the dust, get it outta here
Then I remembered; the jing jok
For what, you ask? BECAUSE IT'S there!!!
Doesn't quite rhyme either, but let's stop flogging the dead horse. Hopefully we would agree on what the correct sound is IN THAI - as that is what matters. 
Posted 2007-08-28 14:11:05
How about
wai (y) naam == swimmiming, swim
Dem tang==fill (petrol tank on bike or in car)
bai con dee ow == alone (on my own)
put maak mar == talk to much
sur == buy (shopping etc)
an nang sur == read a book
gao shu (gow shoo) butterfly (as in, you love the ladies)
Posted 2007-08-31 18:08:22
Chan Cheur Alex = My name is Alex
Posted 2007-09-03 17:39:37
And, here are some very easy Thai words from the current news:
Memorandum of Understanding: เอ็ม โอ ยู
European Union: อี ยู
Posted 2007-09-04 01:41:40
DavidHouston, on 2007-09-03 17:39:37, said: And, here are some very easy Thai words from the current news:
Memorandum of Understanding: ???? ?? ??
European Union: ?? ??
Memorandum of Understanding: ???? ?? ?? = M O U
and
European Union: ?? ?? = E U
Funny how Thais are very economical in their language...
dseawarrior
Posted 2008-02-19 21:46:29
paulm, on 2007-08-28 14:11:05, said: sur == buy (shopping etc)
an nang sur == read a book
Can I ask...
What does sur mean if its 'buy' when alone but 'book'?when with something else, this confuses me 
Posted 2008-02-19 22:16:19
HomeisThai, on 2008-02-19 21:46:29, said: paulm, on 2007-08-28 14:11:05, said: sur == buy (shopping etc)
an nang sur == read a book
Can I ask...
What does sur mean if its 'buy' when alone but 'book'?when with something else, this confuses me
Because they are not the same word. They only look the same in this imperfect transcription into Roman letters. If you read them in Thai, you'll see they have nothing to do with each other: the word for book is one two-syllable word.
Posted 2008-02-19 23:46:34
Hi all:
Long time no see you. (pidgin English in Hawaii)
ซื้อ s’uu(i) = buy
อ่านหนังสือ ?,aan n’ang s<uu(i) = read a book
Note:
? shows glottal sound
tone:
อ flat
อ, low
อ> falling
อ’ high
อ< rising
Thank you.
Posted 2008-02-20 09:15:17
Hi all:
It is inevitable to learn Thai scripts as soon as possible if you really want to learn Thai.
I would like to present you the very basic data for learning Thai including Thai consonants, Thai vowels, tones in Thai, Thai-Japanese-English dictionary together with user dictionary for easy input of Thai scripts into your Pc.
http://www.geocities.../thai_dic_2.htm
I hope it helps you.
Thank you.
Posted 2008-02-20 15:27:24
srachai, on 2008-02-20 09:15:17, said: Hi all:
It is inevitable to learn Thai scripts as soon as possible if you really want to learn Thai.
I would like to present you the very basic data for learning Thai including Thai consonants, Thai vowels, tones in Thai, Thai-Japanese-English dictionary together with user dictionary for easy input of Thai scripts into your Pc.
http://www.geocities.../thai_dic_2.htm
I hope it helps you.
Thank you.
Thanks Srachai!
Nice work!
I am a Mac / Apple user... I tried to open your files links but they were not fully readable on my Mac... I am using a PB G4, OS 10.3.9 and an older version of Excel (X, 2001)...
I am wondering if you or others know what I might need to do with my Mac to get it to read this file??? I can read the English characters, but the Thai / Japanese IME characters are invisible...
Suggestions anyone on how to get this file readable for me 100% ???
Many thanks for your help!
Kawb khun mag tee khun hai chuay na!
dseawarrior
Posted 2008-02-21 10:04:54
สวัสดีครับคุณdseawarrior สรชัยมาแล้วครับ
In this case, only the solution seems to be transmitting files as htm (html) files.
Please try the following address for a test.
Unfortunately, it is totally impossible for your system to use my user dictionary for quick input of Thai script.
http://www.geocities...00/aksn_eng.htm
http://www.geocities...00/sara_eng.htm
http://www.geocities...0/dict_2000.htm
I hope you can enjoy it.
Thank you.
Edited by srachai, 2008-02-21 10:18:52.
Posted 2008-02-21 10:41:42
dseawarrior:
OK I tested myself successfully.
First you download the files.
Second you make excel file by using the htm files, if it is necessary for your work (study).
I hope htm files can be used by any systems such as Mac, Windows-XP and so on.
Thank you.
Posted 2008-02-21 16:23:47
Posted 2008-02-23 09:41:15
One word a day.
Last night in a taxi, the driver was saying the lanes merge. I didn't catch the word sounded like ตะคบ I can't find it in the dictionary. He paraphrased by saying the lanes มาหากัน What was my word yesterday, anybody know? merge = รวมกัน
Posted 2008-02-29 14:29:58
Ok this one for the elementaries like me.
In the apartment office today somebody described the internet service as ค้าง
The apartment asst manager wanting to divert the complaint pointed to me and said "ไม่รู้ ถามคุณ....."
I was thinking ค้าง means all night or stay the night and ค้างคาว means a bat but I guessed, from the person complaining's face it meant lousy. And I replied "เมื่อก่อนมันแย่ ติดบ้างไม่ติดบ้าง ตอนนี้มันดีขึ้น"
Got back to my room and looked up ค้าง which I discover also means intermittent.
So is your internet ค้าง?
Edited by Briggsy, 2008-02-29 14:31:14.
Posted 2008-02-29 16:24:39
Yeah, sometimes my (True-ly Irritating) Internet ค้าง as well 
ค้าง (khang), besides meaning "staying the night", can also mean "freeze", "get stuck", or "left in the middle of [sth]"
eg.
หน้าจอค้าง - a frozen computer screen (a similar word that Thais use is "แฮ๊ง" (hang) - eg. คอมแฮ๊ง)
ล้างจานค้างไว้ - left the dishes while washing them [to go answer the phone]
Posted 2008-02-29 16:26:32
Briggsy, on 2008-02-23 10:41:15, said: One word a day.
Last night in a taxi, the driver was saying the lanes merge. I didn't catch the word sounded like ตะคบ I can't find it in the dictionary. He paraphrased by saying the lanes มาหากัน What was my word yesterday, anybody know? merge = รวมกัน
maybe the word was ประกบ ?
Posted 2008-02-29 17:06:21
That'll be it.
Thanks.
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