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[djayz]

Last time I was in Thailand I wrote down the following sentence, but I can't remember where I read it or what it means in English. Can someone explain it to me in English please. I looked it up in the dictionar, but can't make sense of it. Thanks in advance : เปิดแล้วกรุณาปิดด้วย

[mangkorn]

djayz, on 2008-04-26 02:12:17, said:

<br />Last time I was in Thailand I wrote down the following sentence, but I can't remember where I read it or what it means in English. Can someone explain it to me in English please. I looked it up in the dictionar, but can't make sense of it. Thanks in advance : <b>เปิดแล้วกรุณาปิดด้วย</b><br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />


Assuming that it refers to a water faucet or light switch: Please turn off after you are finished using it.

[CSS]

djayz, on 2008-04-26 03:12:17, said:

Last time I was in Thailand I wrote down the following sentence, but I can't remember where I read it or what it means in English. Can someone explain it to me in English please. I looked it up in the dictionar, but can't make sense of it. Thanks in advance : เปิดแล้วกรุณาปิดด้วย

I believe I remember seeing it above urinals. It's asking you to turn the water on (to flush) then turn it off.

[srachai]

khun-djaiz:

เปิดแล้วกรุณาปิดด้วย

pə̀ət lɛ́ɛo karunaa pìt dûai pə̀ət lɛ́ɛo karunaa pìt dûai

If you open (something like door, window, etc), please close it also.

Edited by srachai, 2008-04-28 04:53:48.

[srachai]

meadish_sweetball, on 2008-04-23 17:57:55, said:

I think khun yoot mentioned sometime long ago that he is feeding his Thai script into www.thai2english.com, and then receives a phonetic (romanized) version back. At thai2english.com you can choose which transcription style you like.

measish_seetball / diayz:
Thank you very much for your information with regard to tones and phonetic sound expression.
The site you suggested is nice.
I’ve found all necessary scripts for phonetic sound including tones in the font of Arial Unicode MS.
Unfortunately our site doesn’t Arial Unicode MS.
I wonder if this site had the font namely Arial Unicode MS.
Scripts for tones are ok for font Arial but special letters for phonetic sound such as u̶ u̶u̶ ə əə ɛ ɛɛ ɔ ɔɔ ŋ ʔ couldn’t show without Arial Unicode MS.

Thank you.

[srachai]

test posting for chinese-mandarin scrits

sorry for disturbing the members of this thread.

女儿空色的诞生
　
谢谢佛迦对给我们女儿空色

二〇〇七年六月二十号女儿空色出世在泰国的一个病院但是她得肺炎了在妈妈的肚子里
顿时它的待遇开始了
我看见她的时候她将要死了
她的病很重了
六年以前我们的嬃名字是女儿茄死了 他得病是一样跟女儿空色得病
假若女儿空色死 我的魂也死了
女儿茄在病院两个星期以后死了
女儿空色得復元很快是一个奇迹
一个星期的疗法给她健康
我要谢谢对我的朋友送信息喝采我们的情况
女儿茄的生诞给我们高兴的人生
谢谢女儿茄

[djayz]

I was reading one of the other threads here and stumbled accross a new word "ชาวนา - chaao naa" and of course not understanding "ชาว - chaao" I looked it up in the dictionary only to find that it means "person". I was surprised to see just how many words there are in Thai for "person". Can anybody explain when to use what word for person? I mean, are they all interchangable or is there a rule of thumb?
คน - kon
ผู้ - pôo
ใคร - krai (I think this means "who" and not really "person").
ชาว - chaao
พระองค์ - prá ong (I think this is used only when referring to the royal family).
ราย - raai
บุคคล - bòok-ká-kon
Thanks!

[DavidHouston]

djayz, on 2008-04-29 17:47:26, said:

I was reading one of the other threads here and stumbled accross a new word "ชาวนา - chaao naa" and of course not understanding "ชาว - chaao" I looked it up in the dictionary only to find that it means "person". I was surprised to see just how many words there are in Thai for "person". Can anybody explain when to use what word for person? I mean, are they all interchangable or is there a rule of thumb?
คน - kon
ผู้ - pôo
ใคร - krai (I think this means "who" and not really "person").
ชาว - chaao
พระองค์ - prá ong (I think this is used only when referring to the royal family).
ราย - raai
บุคคล - bòok-ká-kon
Thanks!

I noticed that Thai2English shows the pronunciation of บุคคล is bòok-ká-kon. I believe that this is a bit misleading. As a stand-alone word meaning "person, individual" the pronunciation is "บุก-คน" or "bòok-kon". However the answer is not that simple. The word บุคคล is also a combining for for words such as บุคลากร ( bòok-ká-laa-gon) [N] personnel; staff; crew. See the Royal Institute Dictionary pronunciation guide which shows: "บุคคล, บุคคล- [บุกคน, บุกคะละ-, บุกคนละ-]"

[mangkorn]

DavidHouston, on 2008-04-29 19:30:05, said:

djayz, on 2008-04-29 17:47:26, said:

I was reading one of the other threads here and stumbled accross a new word "ชาวนา - chaao naa" and of course not understanding "ชาว - chaao" I looked it up in the dictionary only to find that it means "person". I was surprised to see just how many words there are in Thai for "person". Can anybody explain when to use what word for person? I mean, are they all interchangable or is there a rule of thumb?
คน - kon
ผู้ - pôo
ใคร - krai (I think this means "who" and not really "person").
ชาว - chaao
พระองค์ - prá ong (I think this is used only when referring to the royal family).
ราย - raai
บุคคล - bòok-ká-kon
Thanks!

I noticed that Thai2English shows the pronunciation of บุคคล is bòok-ká-kon. I believe that this is a bit misleading. As a stand-alone word meaning "person, individual" the pronunciation is "บุก-คน" or "bòok-kon". However the answer is not that simple. The word บุคคล is also a combining for for words such as บุคลากร ( bòok-ká-laa-gon) [N] personnel; staff; crew. See the Royal Institute Dictionary pronunciation guide which shows: "บุคคล, บุคคล- [บุกคน, บุกคะละ-, บุกคนละ-]"

Interesting one, guys. One of the most common uses of บุคคล means "private" as in "exclusive." In the city, there are many small sois and alleys with signs reading: ถนนบุคคล - and if you wonder onto private property, say, a nice riverside spot, a watchman will often stride up to inform you that it is ส่วนบุคคล

[srachai]

Hi all:
Several days ago, I’ve created new alphabetic phonetic symbols, which, I think, is the Japanese standard and also (I hope) the international standard for phonetic symbols for Thai words. The font to be used in those phonetic symbols is Arial Unicode Ms.
The followings are samples of my phonetic symbols.
เกิด kə̀ət วันเกิด wan kə̀ət เติบโต tə̀əp too แก่ลง kɛ̀ɛ loŋ ตาย (เสีย) taai (sĭa) แต่งงาน tɛ̀ŋŋaan
งานแต่งงาน ŋaan tɛ̀ŋŋaan โสด sòot โอกาส ʔookàat หย่า yàa คลอดลูก khlɔ̂ɔt lûuk จน con รวย ruai ลำบาก lambàak
ร้องไห้ rɔ́ɔŋhâi ปัญหา panhǎa ทะเลาะ thalɔ́ʔ สบาย sabaai หัวเราะ hǔarɔ́ʔ มั่นคง mânkhoŋ มีความสุข mii khwaam sùk
Please refer to the following address for visible areal unicode ms font. Unfortunately, our site seems not to allow the font namely Areal Unicode Ms. I hope it will be improved some day in the near future on our site.
Thank you.

[DavidHouston]

srachai, on 2008-05-01 09:06:56, said:

Hi all:
Several days ago, I’ve created new alphabetic phonetic symbols, which, I think, is the Japanese standard and also (I hope) the international standard for phonetic symbols for Thai words. The font to be used in those phonetic symbols is Arial Unicode Ms.
The followings are samples of my phonetic symbols.
เกิด kə̀ət วันเกิด wan kə̀ət เติบโต tə̀əp too แก่ลง kɛ̀ɛ loŋ ตาย (เสีย) taai (sĭa) แต่งงาน tɛ̀ŋŋaan
งานแต่งงาน ŋaan tɛ̀ŋŋaan โสด sòot โอกาส ʔookàat หย่า yàa คลอดลูก khlɔ̂ɔt lûuk จน con รวย ruai ลำบาก lambàak
ร้องไห้ rɔ́ɔŋhâi ปัญหา panhǎa ทะเลาะ thalɔ́ʔ สบาย sabaai หัวเราะ hǔarɔ́ʔ มั่นคง mânkhoŋ มีความสุข mii khwaam sùk
Please refer to the following address for visible areal unicode ms font. Unfortunately, our site seems not to allow the font namely Areal Unicode Ms. I hope it will be improved some day in the near future on our site.
Thank you.

Are these symbols easily accessible from normal keyboards? And, isn't it easier just to learn the Thai phonetic alphabet to provide a phonetic spelling of Thai words for learners?

[meadish_sweetball]

Khun srachai, the phonetic system you are using is the one developed by AUA (and also very close to that used by Mary Haas, with a few regular exceptions).

It is also the predominant transcription system employed at universities where Thai is taught as a foreign language, and very easily adapted for people familiar with IPA from studying other languages or general linguistics. So for this group of people it gives rapid access to Thai sounds.

Font issues is Richard W's area so I will leave it to him to explain how it works.

[srachai]

DavidHouston:

Thank you very much for your comment on the issue.
Those symbols are not easy to input like ordinary characters on your keyboard.
You have to use soft-keyboard specially created or, in my case, I use my users dictionary for phonetic symbols in the Japanese IME.
As windows xp of any countries version has the Japanese IME, using users dictionary of the Japanese IME may be the easiest solution.
To obtain correct pronunciations of Thai words, using those phonetic symbols is one of the best way to follow, I believe.
By the way, Thai people don’t use alphabetic phonetic symbols. They use Thai letters for phonetic sound as well.
Here are some samples.
บรรพบุรุษ อ่านว่า บัน-พะ-บุ-หรุด ban(flat) pha(high) bu(low) rut(low)
สร้างสรรค์ อ่านว่า ส้าง-สัน saang(falling) san(rising)
Thai-Thai dictionary use this phonetic sound system.
It’s not only interesting but easy to read.

Thank you.

[srachai]

Meadish_sweetball:

Thank you very much for your kind advice. I appreciate it very much.
I’m a member of Khonkaen Discussion Forum as well as I am in Thailand Forum.
You can see the exact result of my phonetic symbols on the following site.
Last time, I mistakenly forgot to type the same URL.

http://www.khonkaen.com/english/forum/foru...D=1883&PN=9

Thank you.

Edited by srachai, 2008-05-02 08:33:46.

[djayz]

djayz, on 2008-04-29 12:47:26, said:

I was reading one of the other threads here and stumbled accross a new word "ชาวนา - chaao naa" and of course not understanding "ชาว - chaao" I looked it up in the dictionary only to find that it means "person". I was surprised to see just how many words there are in Thai for "person". Can anybody explain when to use what word for person? I mean, are they all interchangable or is there a rule of thumb?
คน - kon
ผู้ - pôo
ใคร - krai (I think this means "who" and not really "person").
ชาว - chaao
พระองค์ - prá ong (I think this is used only when referring to the royal family).
ราย - raai
บุคคล - bòok-ká-kon
Thanks!

I think I've figured out the meanings and would appreciate it if someone would look over my answers / correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!
คน - kon - [ N ] person ; people ; human being. [ V ] to stir; scramble; mix
ผู้ - poo - [ N ] person, human, one (who). Thai prefix corresponding to English suffixes '-er' or '-or'. [ ADJ ] male. [pronoun, formal] those (who).
ชาว - chaao - [ N ] folk; people. e.g. ชาวไทย - chaao tai - Thai or Thai people.
พระองค์ - prá ong - [ PRON ] His Majesty ; Her Majesty ; His Highness ; Her Highness
ราย - raai - [ N ] list of items; record; story; account; item; statement; case. [ V ] to line up or place in a series at regular intervals. e.g. รายวัน - raai wan - daily.
บุคคล - bòok-ká-kon - [ N ] individual [Philosophy] a being.

[djayz]

Found "กู๊ดวิลล์" this evening. The transliteration of "good will" - anybody know what the tones are?

[srachai]

Khun Djayz,

กู้ดวิลล์
kuut (falling) win (flat)
good will (this word has come from Englsh word, good will)

I’ve created phonetic symbols for Thai scripts myself but it requires me to change users dictionary for each time I input phonetic symbols.
This time, I use simple way as shown above.

Thank you.

[srachai]

Hi all:

What gives me difficulty in learning Thai language is that there are 9 basic vowel sounds in Thai language besides 5 tones. (Only 5 in Japanese i.e. a i u e o )
Here is a list of Thai vowels. (phonetic sound by roman alphabet)

a for aｒｔ
i for beat
u for look
u(i) for hmm (not accurately, no equivalent sound for this pronunciation in English)
e for leg
e(a) for chat
o for cone
o(a) for pot
a(*) for bird

If I would like to show pronunciation of Thai words accurately, I need to have phonetic symbols listed below.
u(i), e(a), o(a), a(*)

As much as I know, only the font namely Arial Unicode Ms is able to give us the relevant characters from the font table.
My suffering with regard to the matter continues.

Thank you.

[dseawarrior]

srachai, on 2008-05-01 09:06:56, said:

Hi all:
Several days ago, I’ve created new alphabetic phonetic symbols, which, I think, is the Japanese standard and also (I hope) the international standard for phonetic symbols for Thai words. The font to be used in those phonetic symbols is Arial Unicode Ms.
The followings are samples of my phonetic symbols.
เกิด kə̀ət วันเกิด wan kə̀ət เติบโต tə̀əp too แก่ลง kɛ̀ɛ loŋ ตาย (เสีย) taai (sĭa) แต่งงาน tɛ̀ŋŋaan
งานแต่งงาน ŋaan tɛ̀ŋŋaan โสด sòot โอกาส ʔookàat หย่า yàa คลอดลูก khlɔ̂ɔt lûuk จน con รวย ruai ลำบาก lambàak
ร้องไห้ rɔ́ɔŋhâi ปัญหา panhǎa ทะเลาะ thalɔ́ʔ สบาย sabaai หัวเราะ hǔarɔ́ʔ มั่นคง mânkhoŋ มีความสุข mii khwaam sùk
Please refer to the following address for visible areal unicode ms font. Unfortunately, our site seems not to allow the font namely Areal Unicode Ms. I hope it will be improved some day in the near future on our site.
Thank you.

Hi all,

Nice work here -- very helpful overall...

One niggling little point for me... In my understanding and listening, "ก" (gaw gai) is much more a "g" sound than a "k" sound -- although some speakers tend to lean more towards the "k" sound for "ก" (gaw gai)... In general, it seems that "ก" (gaw gai) has a general "g" sound and in some cases leans towards "k". Especially when "ก" (gaw gai) is a final stop consonant it takes on the "k" (unvoiced glottal stop) sound...

So for the above, I would substitute "g" for "k" when "ก" (gaw gai) is used as an initial consonant...

Hence,
เกิด = gə̀ət
วันเกิด = wan gə̀ət

โอกาส = ʔoogàat
คลอดลูก = khlɔ̂ɔt lûug

Of course, whether one voices (as in "g" sound) or unvoices (as in "k" sound) one's glottal stops all depends on the individual speaker... With the example of: คลอดลูก = khlɔ̂ɔt lûug, the final stop is less voiced so the final "ก" (gaw gai) takes on more of a "k" sound...

So, "up to you," on this I guess???

Any comments on this minor point?

dseawarrior

[meadish_sweetball]

Personally I think it is a good idea to stick to one accepted system, as srachai has already done, than trying to reinvent the wheel again by modifications.

There are already so many home-brewed transcription systems floating around, making it all the more difficult for new learners who have not yet learned the Thai script. So for that reason I would not change anything, or alternatively, seek out an entirely new system to use.

If the goal was to approximate English pronunciation of Roman letters rather than providing a transcription closer to the international phonetic alphabet, there are probably other systems available that could be adopted wholesale. Perhaps adding such a system as an alternative would be an idea?

As for the final plosive sounds, correctly pronounced their sounds stop short before they are realized, so I think either /k/ or /g/, either /p/ or /b/, and either /t/ or /d/ is acceptable - since neither of them are entirely accurate when compared to the actual Thai sound.

More important to make sure the system is as consistent and properly explained as possible, in the guide to the transcription system that accompanies the word list.

[srachai]

Dseewarrier,

Thank you very much for your precious comment on the issue.
The slight discrepancy is caused by the difference between alphabetic phonetic symbols to be used in Japan and that one internationally used like yours.
In Japan, we use k for non-aspirated sound and kh for aspirated sound, whereas you use g for non-aspirated sound and k for aspirated sound.
As for glottal stops to be used at the bottom of the word, we use k for non-aspirated sound (unvoiced, but Thai people can identify the sound).

Thank you.

[srachai]

Meadish_sweetball,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful comment. It helped me much.
I entirely agree with your assertion.
What is more important is to continue learning Thai language than creating perfect alphabetic phonetic symbol system.
The alphabetic phonetic symbol system is one of the various means to help us learn Thai language smoothly.
Actually Thai students don’t use alphabetic phonetic symbol system in their schools.

Thank you for your advice.

[djayz]

สวัสดีครับ
Can any one tell me what does ทั้งโขลง (pronounced táng kŏh long) mean? I know ทั้ง means "whole, all, entire" and โขลง means "a heard of elephants" so I assume it means "a whole or entire heard of elephants" BUT โขลง can also mean "rancid, stinking, foul-smelling" and this is causing some confusion. Does ทั้งโขลง have a second meaning regarding "foul-smelling"?
ขอบคุณครับ

[DavidHouston]

djayz, on 2008-05-18 17:56:02, said:

สวัสดีครับ
Can any one tell me what does ทั้งโขลง (pronounced táng kŏh long) mean? I know ทั้ง means "whole, all, entire" and โขลง means "a heard of elephants" so I assume it means "a whole or entire heard of elephants" BUT โขลง can also mean "rancid, stinking, foul-smelling" and this is causing some confusion. Does ทั้งโขลง have a second meaning regarding "foul-smelling"?
ขอบคุณครับ

With respect to the pronunciation, the Royal Institute Dictionary shows "โขลง ๑ [โขฺลง]", that is " klŏhng" as a single syllable with a rising tone. I see that "thai2english" has the pronunciation you mention. I suspect that this is incorrect; the single syllable pronunciation applies to both meanings, according to the dictionary. The full entry is:

"โขลง ๑ [โขฺลง] น. ฝูง (ใช้เฉพาะช้าง).

โขลง ๒ [โขฺลง] ว. มีกลิ่นเหม็นอย่างเนื้อเน่าที่ค้างหลายวัน, โขง ก็ว่า."

I see on the "sanook/dictionary" website that the term is defined as "n. the whole bunch". (BTW, the sound clip on this website also indicates a single syllable and rising tone.

[djayz]

DavidHouston, on 2008-05-18 15:28:42, said:

djayz, on 2008-05-18 17:56:02, said:

สวัสดีครับ
Can any one tell me what does ทั้งโขลง (pronounced táng kŏh long) mean? I know ทั้ง means "whole, all, entire" and โขลง means "a heard of elephants" so I assume it means "a whole or entire heard of elephants" BUT โขลง can also mean "rancid, stinking, foul-smelling" and this is causing some confusion. Does ทั้งโขลง have a second meaning regarding "foul-smelling"?
ขอบคุณครับ

With respect to the pronunciation, the Royal Institute Dictionary shows "โขลง ๑ [โขฺลง]", that is " klŏhng" as a single syllable with a rising tone. I see that "thai2english" has the pronunciation you mention. I suspect that this is incorrect; the single syllable pronunciation applies to both meanings, according to the dictionary. The full entry is:

"โขลง ๑ [โขฺลง] น. ฝูง (ใช้เฉพาะช้าง).

โขลง ๒ [โขฺลง] ว. มีกลิ่นเหม็นอย่างเนื้อเน่าที่ค้างหลายวัน, โขง ก็ว่า."

I see on the "sanook/dictionary" website that the term is defined as "n. the whole bunch". (BTW, the sound clip on this website also indicates a single syllable and rising tone.

Thank you David - much appreciate the input.
1) what is the royal institutes' website? The site that I've tried ( http://www.royin.go.th ) isn't loading and I'm getting an error reading.
2) as alot of the other memebers here already speak better Thai than I do and / or live in Thailand, I was wondering just how reliable do you think www.thai2english.com is with respect to the "pronunciation"?
3) can anybody tell me if ทั้งโขลง has another meaning besides "a whole heard of elephants"? Am confused because โขลง apparently also means "stinking, rancid"...

For me as a beginner, this is a great forum! Am leaning so much here (just a pity my pronunciation isn't improving though...)

Thank you