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[meadish_sweetball]

Quote

won't the thais arrange the above in the following orders?

The mid tone - เสียงสามัญ
The low tone - เสียงเอก
The falling tone- เสียงโท
The high tone - เสียงตรี
The rising tone - เสียงจัตวา

Yes, they will.

[PawyiLee]

Harcourt, on 2009-06-25 06:47:31, said:

The one I like is " Kee chang chup takataan", ride an elephant to catch grasshopers, in other words something like "breaking eggs with a sledge hammer"

Or US-er's War on Terror.

[PawyiLee]

5tash, on 2009-01-22 11:42:05, said:

klons, on 2009-01-22 11:17:32, said:

งู ๆ ปลา ๆ 'ngoo ngoo bplaa bplaa' - a little bit
Lit. 'snake snake fish fish'

To be more precise, I think this has the meaning "for someone to know very little."

Yes. It's a description of an eel by someone who does not know what an eel is.

[agent69]

PawyiLee, on 2009-07-30 01:43:39, said:

5tash, on 2009-01-22 11:42:05, said:

klons, on 2009-01-22 11:17:32, said:

งู ๆ ปลา ๆ 'ngoo ngoo bplaa bplaa' - a little bit
Lit. 'snake snake fish fish'

To be more precise, I think this has the meaning "for someone to know very little."

Yes. It's a description of an eel by someone who does not know what an eel is.

that's a nice explanation. thanks. I kind of know what the expression means but didn't know the origin of it.

[nakachalet]

Edited by nakachalet, 2009-07-30 15:29:31.

[mazimus]

My favourite Thai saying is som num nah,it basically means hard luck/you get what you deservre

[sazermus]

Hi

I know this isn't really for this thread, but I posted this at the tattoo thread and didn't get response, so I thought it might be more appropriate here. I found a poem, and I would like to get a correct translation of. I did an online translation, but I'd like to know
how you guys would translate this

หวัง ใจ เรา สว่าง ท่ามกลาง ความมืด มน
wăng jai rao sà-wàang tâam-glaang kwaam-mêut mon

and if possible a translation of all of the ending in the poem:


เรา พยายาม เดินตาม หา ความหมาย
rao pá-yaa-yaam dern dtaam hăa kwaam măai

กล้าเผชิญ ดีร้าย สิ่งกีดขวาง
glâa păy-chin dee ráai sìng gèet-kwăang

มุ่งมั่น ฟันฝ่า ผอง ภัย ใน หนทาง
môong-mân fan fàa pŏng pai nai hŏn taang

หวัง ใจ เรา สว่าง ท่ามกลาง ความมืด มน
wăng jai rao sà-wàang tâam-glaang kwaam-mêut mon


I just copied and pasted this from thai2english.com

[nakachalet]

sazermus et al: what is your cosmic address, pls? so we might send you proper billing.... lol

[quote name='sazermus' date='2009-08-07 03:59:13' post='2924890']
Hi

I know this isn't really for this thread, but I posted this at the tattoo thread and didn't get response, so I thought it might be more appropriate here. I found a poem, and I would like to get a correct translation of. I did an online translation, but I'd like to know
how you guys would translate this
------------------------------
หวัง ใจ เรา สว่าง ท่ามกลาง ความมืด มน
wăng jai rao sà-wàang tâam-glaang kwaam-mêut mon

and if possible a translation of all of the ending in the poem:

[size=3]hopefully our heart shines brightly amidst darkness
[/size]-----------------------------
เรา พยายาม เดินตาม หา ความหมาย
rao pá-yaa-yaam dern dtaam hăa kwaam măai

[size=3]we are following and searching for meanings[/size]
-----------------------------

กล้าเผชิญ ดีร้าย สิ่งกีดขวาง
glâa păy-chin dee ráai sìng gèet-kwăang

[size=3]brave enough to face obstructing goods and evils[/size]
-----------------------------

มุ่งมั่น ฟันฝ่า ผอง ภัย ใน หนทาง
môong-mân fan fàa pŏng pai nai hŏn taang

[size=3]fighting with purpose and determination thru harms and dangers along the way[/size]
-----------------------------

หวัง ใจ เรา สว่าง ท่ามกลาง ความมืด มน
wăng jai rao sà-wàang tâam-glaang kwaam-mêut mon

[size=3]hopefully, our heart shines brightly amidst darkness[/size]
-----------------------------

I just copied and pasted this from thai2english.com

sir/madam, do you by any chance carry an american express titanium card, pls? as our policy dictates that we do not accept other low limit credit cards, the like of visa or master card....

whom should i send the bill to? ....lol

Edited by nakachalet, 2009-08-07 10:34:46.

[sazermus]

nakachalet, on 2009-08-07 05:27:21, said:

sazermus et al: what is your cosmic address, pls? so we might send you proper billing.... lol

sir/madam, do you by any chance carry an american express titanium card, pls? as our policy dictates that we do not accept other low limit credit cards, the like of visa or master card....

whom should i send the bill to? ....lol

Don't worry about the bill, I'll send at owl for it

Thank you so very much for helping.

[bannork]

Here's a description of a typical female Thai teacher ถือถุง พุงป่อง น่องทู่

[nakachalet]

bannork

geeweezzzz.... are we bashing the poor thai ladies again....? why do we need to belittle those less fortunate thai ladies so very often any way?

we all know, most farangs are afforded better opportunity to education and employment than thailand has to offer her citizen including these pathetic ladies mostly from the northeastern rural farming areas.

no.... you surely won't find too many thai ladies from the south in the shining glass show case.... southerners mostly are merchants and traders and most families are self-sufficient, so there is no need for most ladies in the south to stray.... very much unlike the economic conditions in the east or northeast of thailand where natural resources are far and few in between.... my heart often bleeds for them....

for the benefits of those who were born after 1975--do we realize that:

before vietnam war (1970)....

before the R & R....

before the 6-lane freeway in nongkai....

the farang vices of such proportion were not known to these lovely barn-nork ladies.... !

whether we like it or not, whether the current majority of farangs in thailand realize it or not--we the farangs are one of the significant major contributors to these simple-minded ladies' road to present pathetic and offensive social disparities....

may i pls repeat--we and our brothers have been the significant major contributors to these thai ladies downfall.... don't we, the latter generation, ever forget that.... !!!

HONESTLY, WE SHOULD NOT RIDICULE NOR BELITTLE ANY MORE.... most of these ladies are so simple minded and are so easily led astray by materialism offered by us who have more natural urges than octopus.... lol

yes, i for one was equally guilty.... many times over.... and i already promised myself never never again....

Edited by nakachalet, 2009-08-10 09:57:56.

[mangkorn]

Uh, time to climb down from that high horse...

Bannork was repeating a stereotypical physical description of TEACHERS, while you are obviously on to something else.

He made that very clear, and the description certainly does not fit "northeastern ladies" who "stray."

(Nobody becomes a schoolteacher because they've been "led astray by materialism.")

[nakachalet]

mangkorn

do you know what these most despicable thai words mean, especially when used to describe a feminine gender and particularly a thai female teacher?

i tried to avoid using these thai words in my post, particularly to refrain from belittling the feminine gender.

ถือถุง พุงป่อง น่องทู่

mangkorn, you might find this description particular comical in some way, but many others do not see it that way....

to put it mildly, it is obnoxious and offensive for someone coming from a more civilized society to describe any female gender, whether thais or farangs or other nationalities with such detrimental terminologies.

my comment is a personal response and it is not to attach you or anyone, ok? just want to explain the meaning of those unsettling words.

Edited by nakachalet, 2009-08-10 22:07:59.

[yoot]

nakachalet, on 2009-08-10 22:07:21, said:

mangkorn

do you know what these most despicable thai words mean, especially when used to describe a feminine gender and particularly a thai female teacher?

i tried to avoid using these thai words in my post, particularly to refrain from belittling the feminine gender.

ถือถุง พุงป่อง น่องทู่

mangkorn, you might find this description particular comical in some way, but many others do not see it that way....

to put it mildly, it is obnoxious and offensive for someone coming from a more civilized society to describe any female gender, whether thais or farangs or other nationalities with such detrimental terminologies.

my comment is a personal response and it is not to attach you or anyone, ok? just want to explain the meaning of those unsettling words.

I think you are misunderstanding something about this description. There is nothing bad about it. It describes the characteristic of teachers in general, kind of stereotype.

"พุงปอง (เพราะว่ากินยังไม่ทันย่อย หรือ มีกินบ้างไม่มีกินบ้าง เนื่องจากงานยุ่ง ) น่องทู่ (ต้องยืนหรือเดิน หรือ วิ่งยุ่ง ๆ ทั้งวัน) ถือถุง (การบ้านนักเรียน)"

Is there anything bad about these ? I think it is a praise for teachers, rather than detrimental terminologies, if you look at it deep enough.

Edited by yoot, 2009-08-11 00:05:45.

[mangkorn]

Yes, I know what the words mean. By the way, they are all common words, not "despicable words."

You said you "just want to explain the meaning of those unsettling words," but then did not do so. If you have some unique knowledge of that expression, by all means, please share it.

But you are way out of line attacking me. I never said I find it comical; I offered no opinion whatsoever about it. In your zeal to mount a high pedestal with your knee-jerk reaction to Bannork's post, you obviously failed to comprehend it. This thread is dedicated to Thai sayings, and he is a knowledgeable and thoughtful contributor of same: he has shared many sayings and idioms that exist, such as this one; he doesn't post any expressions that he invents himself.

Clearly, you completely misunderstood his post, ranting that "most of these ladies are so simple minded and are so easily led astray by materialism offered by us who have more natural urges than octopus." In that, you were not referring to schoolteachers, not by any stretch of imagination nor post-hoc justification. But you can't seem to muster the humility to admit your mistake. It's okay, everybody makes mistakes. No harm done, just own up to it.

You might also check your self-righteousness long enough to review your own prejudice: what does "someone coming from a more civilized society" mean? It is very difficult to imagine that whomever you are pretending to defend would be flattered by your base condescension toward them as "less-civilized." Certainly not teachers. But then you weren't referring to teachers...

In any event, none of that has any relevance to his post, which merely contained a Thai expression, as per the title of this thread.

Carry on.

[nakachalet]

yoot:

your own quote: I think you are misunderstanding something about this description. There is nothing bad about it. It describes the characteristic of teachers in general, kind of stereotype.

"พุงปอง (เพราะว่ากินยังไม่ทันย่อย หรือ มีกินบ้างไม่มีกินบ้าง เนื่องจากงานยุ่ง ) น่องทู่ (ต้องยืนหรือเดิน หรือ วิ่งยุ่ง ๆ ทั้งวัน) ถือถุง (การบ้านนักเรียน)"

Is there anything bad about these ? I think it is a praise for teachers, rather than detrimental terminologies, if you look at it deep enough.
----------

yoot, it appears that you are the one who is grossly mistaken... but i won't make an issue of that at all either.... lol

read again carefully the following direct quote ok? then ask yourself:

does the quoted statement attribute to male teachers in general as you summarily pointed out, or
does it say something else....like labeling certain gender other than male teachers....????

typical female Thai teachers ถือถุง พุงป่อง น่องทู่
----------

yoot, honestly i would not have given a hoot, had the statement been what you mistakenly pointed out that it attributed to male teachers in general.... but as you can read for yourself, it does otherwise.

yoot, one thing though, if you are farang, i would owe you an apology because thai is not the easiest language to master for sure. but if you are thai as your name indicated, then i should say kor toat krup, jnar-tuur-sar na-krup อย่าถือสานะครับ did i say it right?.... lol

cheers, yoot buddie.... we all learn something new everyday.... lol

Edited by nakachalet, 2009-08-11 01:17:07.

[nakachalet]

mangkorn

did you or did you not see the last sentence in my post which said:

....my comment is a personal response and it is not to attach you or anyone, ok?
----------

those group of words when used together directing toward a feminine gender, female teachers in particular, it could be construed as:

sexual intimidation or sexual harassment; either or both is an offense punishable by laws.

you do not have to believe me.... tomorrow morning just go to any thai school or english school and ask the lady principal or the human resource director.... if what i said here is correct?

or do you think they will agree with you and other contributors that the application of those bunches of common thai words toward female teachers constitute nothing more than a crude male joke? yes, some male teachers might joke about it in private, but to utter those words to a female teacher might cost him his job at this age and time....

again as i said if you are farang, i would owe you an apology because thai language is not the easiest to master. but if you are thai, then kor toat krup, njar tuur sar na krup อย่าถือสานะครับ

โอกาสหน้า กรุณาให้เกียติ็็์์์์สุภาพสตรีบ้าง นะครับ

come to think of it, why are we picking on things like this? there are many more pleasant and pleasurable thai words and phases to explore.... lol

Edited by nakachalet, 2009-08-11 03:03:48.

[bannork]

I'm not sure what Nakachalet is on but if he's got a few seeds spare I wouldn't mind planting a few on my wife's farm in Udon.
I'm a teacher, and on entering the classroom a few days ago the 'offending' phrase was written on the board. The (female) Thai teacher who had taught the previous lesson had written it for the students, she was laughing and asked me to translate it.
I guessed that น่องทู่ meant stout or thick legs but I wasn't sure why, so thank you Yoot for the explanation.

[meadish_sweetball]

Showing respect for other posters is one of the basic rules in this forum.

I'd like to see that rule observed in this sub forum as has almost invariably been the case before.

Otherwise I will need to put on my silly little moderator's hat and wield my silly moderator's stick, and I feel so much more comfortable without having to use it.

So can we please try to discuss things on topic, constructively, without belittling and snide remarks? Thank you.

[nakachalet]

bannork, mangkorn and yoot

in reference to our last night conversation on the appropriateness and meaning of that thai phrase, and in order to disquiet my own inquisitiveness and my desire to ascertain that i am not really barking up the wrong tree so to speak, i quickly hand carried the attached simple survey to two high school principals in town. the survey handed over to the school principals is enclosed herewith for you to examine. it was the best that i could come up with considering the limitation of time this morning.

on the school playgrounds, i also showed the survey questions to 6 female students. each one said that it was inappropriate and crude to refer to koon-kroo like that. that was only 6 female students' opinion, ok?

around 4 pm this afternoon, i received calls from both principals expressing concerns and they thought that i made up the story to initiate a survey for parents teachers group.... lol

both principals thought that at the beginning of this school year, each school in thailand organized several administrators-teachers conferences and workshops dealing with teachers-students behavioral expectations and administrators-teachers professional relationships....

i was told that if incident such as i described, if it were true, and if it would happen in their schools, teachers concerned would be given a written reprimentation, for the first offense. and for the second similar offense which the particular teacher was already warned, the licensed teacher would be summarily dismissed.

bannork, did your school provide such meetings before the school year began this year, as the two adminstrators claimed? or did they just talking tough to impress me, so i would not stir up other farangs in the area? .... lol

for what it is worth, here is the survey questions

Attached Files

•  opinion_survey_090811_m.doc   31K   14 downloads

Edited by nakachalet, 2009-08-11 21:48:01.

[yoot]

คุณ nakachalet (since you tried to show how much you know about Thai people and Thai language, I think it'd be better to write it in Thai, so that, you can read it clearly than reading my poor English.)

ด้วยความเคารพ ตอนแรกที่ได้อ่านที่คุณเขียน ก็พอจะรับรู้ได้ว่าระดับสติปัญญาของคุณมีอยู่แค่ไหน ก็เลยไม่คิดจะต่อความยาวสาวความยืด แต่รู้สึกคุณก็ยังไม่เข้าใจอยู่ดีว่าอะไรเป็นอะไร จนได้ไปดิ้นรนทำแบบสำรวจเพื่อหาพวกพ้องมาสนับสนุนความคิดต่ำ ๆ ของตัวเอง บอกได้เพียงว่า แบบสำรวจของคุณนั้น ทำขึ้นด้วยความไม่รู้ซึ่ง "กาละเทศะ" ผลที่คุณได้ ก็ย่อมสมควรแล้วด้วยประการทั้งปวง แต่หาใช่เป็นข้อยืนยันความคิดของคุณไม่

สิ่งที่คุณควรจะทำเป็นอย่างแรก มากกว่าการทำแบบสอบถามที่ไร้ปัญญาแบบนั้นคือ ค้นหาคำพูดนี้ใน google แล้ววิเคราะห์แต่ละความคิดเห็นที่มีคำพูดนี้อยู่ ว่ามีลักษณะคำพูดไปในทางทิศใด คุณจะเข้าใจความหมายของมันมากกว่านี้

แล้วสิ่งที่ได้อธิบายไป บอกว่าเป็นลักษณะโดยทั่วไปของครู(โดยมิได้เอ่ยว่าเป็นหญิงหรือชาย ในความคิดเห็นนั้น) ถ้าคุณพอจะรู้จักวัฒนธรรมของคนไทยดี จะรู้ว่าที่มาที่ไปของคำพูดนี้เป็นอย่างไร แต่จะไม่ขออธิบายให้คุณฟัง เพราะอาจจะยากเกินความสามารถของคุณที่จะเรียนรู้ได้

ซึ่งเชื่อว่าคุณ bannork ซึ่งมีวุฒิภาวะ และความเข้าใจในวัฒนธรรมของไทยเป็นอย่างดี สามารถเข้าใจในเรื่องนี้ได้อย่างง่ายดาย


ข้อความข้างล่างนี้ คัดมาจาก http://www.geocities...lty/sheet12.htm

Quote

ผศ.โสภาภรณ์ ทรรพนันทน์
สหัสวรรษใหม่ ก็คือ สหัสวรรษเก่า ครูใน สหัสวรรษใหม่ ก็คือ ครูคนเก่า แต่ ปรับเปลี่ยนให้ทันยุค ทันสมัย ทันคน (อื่นๆ) ไม่ให้ได้ชื่อว่า ครู – ครึ หรือ "ถือถุง พุงป่อง น่องทู่" ฯลฯ
ในกระบวนการจัดการศึกษา ไม่ว่าจะสหัสวรรษใดก็ตาม ต้องยกให้ "ครู" เป็นเอก พระเอก / นางเอก นอกนั้นเป็นรองหรือตัวร้ายไปเลย ถ้าจะปรับเปลี่ยนให้ทันยุค ทันสมัย ทันคนตลอดไป ก็จะต้องมีลักษณะสำคัญ ดังนี้ เป็นพื้นฐาน
มีวิสัยทัศน์กว้างไกล ใฝ่รู้ ให้ทันกับเหตุการณ์ต่าง ๆ ทันวิทยาการ และเทคโนโลยี ตลอดจน ไอที ใหม่ ๆ ยอมรับความคิด ความรู้ ความเปลี่ยนแปลงทั้งหลายทั้งปวง นำปรับใช้ในการจัดการเรียนการสอน และเป็นแหล่งวิชาการให้แก่นักเรียนหรือผู้อื่นได้ด้วย
มีความสามารถในการที่จะนำทฤษฎี / หลักการ / วิชาการ / วิทยายุทธทั้งมวลไปสู่การปฏิบัติจริงให้ได้ โดยเฉพาะอย่างยิ่งนำมาปฏิบัติในการจัดการเรียนการสอน ด้วยเทคนิค / เทคโนโลยีหลากหลาย ใช้สื่ออุปกรณ์เหมาะสม
มีบุคลิกภาพดี มีมนุษยสัมพันธ์ที่ดี เป็นมิตรกับบุคคลทั่วไป (สลัด ความครึ หรือ ถือถุง พุงป่อง น่องทู่ ทิ้งไป)

พยายามอ่านและทำความเข้าใจกับมันก่อน ถ้ามันยากเกินไป ก็ค่อย ๆ อ่าน หวังว่าคงจะเข้าใจอะไรได้มากกว่านี้

ยินดีที่ได้เสวนาด้วย แต่คงไม่อยากจะเสวนากับคนประเภทคุณอีกต่อไป ขอบคุณ


ความรู้ต่ำต้อยผิวเผิน
อวดอ้างเหิมเกริมสอนสั่ง
คนเตือนกลับไม่อินัง
เลือกจักกักขังตนเอง

Edited by yoot, 2009-08-12 00:25:23.

[mangkorn]

เยี่ยมไปเลย!

[nakachalet]

yoot and mangkorn

i do hope both of you are not licensed teachers. properly trained and licensed teachers are expected to conduct themselves more respectably, especially when appearing in public or writing a statement for public consumption, such as in thaivisa column.

look at yourselves and what you wrote and what you stand for, yoot and mangkorn, with the intent to put someone down or ridicule someone.... it is very sad.

the moderator already stated the purpose and intention of this sub forum--to respect others' post. they also advised against what some of you did, but then you ignored their posted declaration just yesterday.

why do you need to say something to put down or ridicule someone that you do not know well?

i do not personally know the moderators but i do respect their implied request. so i would not throw mud at you in return.

look at yourselves, both of you, and examine yourselves and your expressive derogatory writing in thai language.... perhaps you need to engage someone older and wiser to help you revamp yourselves and your thai street language expressed in public.

however, i do want to thank you for the attached article in thai language concerning the upgrading of the thai educational system which would be wonderful for thailand, when it is equally applied and practised by all school administrators--problems such as making fun of female gender, sexual harassment and sexual intimidation in thailand would surely diminish.

yoot, see i do read your mother language thai quite well and comprehend perhaps even more.... which led me to voice my concerns over the use of certain wordings to belittle or poke fun at feminine gender....with or without malicious intent....

anyway, as one of my objectives in life is to help others to succeed and realize their human potentials to the fullest.... i shall henceforth continue my life journey....

as one of the intent of this sub forum as i understood it, is to help promote the languages, so farangs and thais alike could mutually benefit.... so let's just stick to that.... shall we? .... and i rest....

A VERY HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY TO ALL THE LADIES.... PARTICULARLY HER ROYAL MAJESTY THE QUEEN OF THAILAND.... MAY SHE BE OVERFLOWED WITH JOY AND HAPPINESS AND MAY SHE LIVE TO BE HUNDREDS....

varn-sui, varn-sui, varn-varn-sui (let's ask linquist in residence, what that means)

[sigeena]

This thread got very much derailed by enthusiastic bluster.

How does varn-sui get into context anyway? It seems like an Indicised version of Wan-Sui. This does not fit into the context of this thread at all.

[bannork]

sigeena, on 2009-08-12 10:45:04, said:

This thread got very much derailed by enthusiastic bluster.

How does varn-sui get into context anyway? It seems like an Indicised version of Wan-Sui. This does not fit into the context of this thread at all.

That is magnificent English-'enthusiastic bluster'!